2011-06-12, 21:48 | Link #22842 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2011
|
Um, hey, wait. In Episode 2, Kanon was hiding behind a thicket and saw Maria getting slapped by Rosa, then talked to Maria after, awhile later Rosa goes looking for Maria(Kanon is gone) and Beatrice suddenly comes after Maria is sure she will come. Beatrice then tells Maria to close her eyes....throws her broken candy in the air and repairs it.
So, did Kanon say that he was possessed by Beatrice(Yasu whatever you get my point), hide in the bushes to don' her Beatrice suit, whilst Rosa comes, which would back up why Maria persisted that Beatrice would come. So for the part where she repairs the broken candy, it said Maria already had plenty, and she even gave Beatrice one that wasn't broken. Maria had her eyes closed, so she couldn't see it. But if Rosa was a culprit.....she could fake her perspective to make it seem like she threw it up in the air and used magic on it, and rather just didn't try to crush Maria's dreams and tell her she gave her the spare one? Do I got that right so far? In fact, she might not have even had to be a culprit. |
2011-06-12, 22:48 | Link #22843 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
|
Quote:
Rosa doesn't need to be a culprit, you're right - she makes a serious claim to have met Beatrice during dinner, but it can't be said for certain whether she was "recruited" at that point (as Kyrie almost certainly was), or just really serious about protecting Maria's feelings. I think it's also the common reading that "dress Beato" represents pure metaphor, while "Suit Beato", with the fashionista boots + coat + miniskirt getup, represents a human Beatrice - that is, Culprit-San being physically present and taking an action. Suit-Beato only really fixes the candy and greets Kyrie in EP2, and gives Battler's quiz in EP4, so I think that's pretty reasonable. |
|
2011-06-13, 00:09 | Link #22844 |
The True Culprit
|
I would almost certainly say that that "Casual Beato" represents a physica, human presence. When the two aspects are separated, Elder Beato (casual wear) is trying to affirm her assistance with human-vouched actions. Similarly, Suit Beato has pretty much absolutely zero Meta-existence.
__________________
|
2011-06-13, 17:40 | Link #22845 |
Senior Member
|
I already posted the link in the merchandise thread, but I thought here would be the most fitting place, as here are the most people who read through the whole series.
So I translated a discussion between someone who attempted to solve Umineko and Ryűkishi07 that was included in the published version of that solution. I hope it's okay to post it, because I think it gives some nice ideas and insights...even though Ryűkishi says he doesn't want to answer things, there are some pretty interesting confirmations. So here's the link to my blog where I posted it (as it's to long for a forum post anyway) |
2011-06-13, 19:59 | Link #22846 | |
見ぬが花
Join Date: Jan 2011
|
Quote:
Interesting deal with Maria's name, I feel a little bad for her now XD "Even though he had prepared such a wonderful name for his sweet, sweet granddaughter, she got such a dumb-ass name" |
|
2011-06-13, 21:18 | Link #22847 |
The True Culprit
|
*Reads.*
FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF- Well atleast people will shut up about Kyrie and Rudolf being the culprits. Though MULTIPLE PERSONALITIES DO NOT WORK THAT WAY, RYUKISHI. I liked how he totally confirmed that Yasu's cliff incident had to do with her genitals, though. Thank god we can put that to rest.
__________________
|
2011-06-13, 21:41 | Link #22848 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
|
You can tell when he's trying to deflect some questions, but sometimes he gives out information that he really didn't need to give with such gusto that you can almost tell that he's saying "this is the way I wanted it".
The information about Eva in EP3 in regards to her actions is very good. I always felt like she committed some of the murders in the story (maybe in "prime" as well) out of what she thought where just actions. She killed off people she though where the culprits, including Battler in the final scene, only to later find out that they where most likely innocent. Grief stricken by her actions she decides to raise Ange as her own to try and atone for her sins. But it still doesn't explain why she's covering for someone. Sure she would have to admit that she killed some of them, but by now she should have known that most people thought she killed everyone in the island. I cant see how she would willingly shoulder the blame after knowing someone else murdered most of her family. Also Yoshiya's and Sayo's name have meanings, I still think they are religious allusions. This story had to many symbolism to just glance off. |
2011-06-14, 00:33 | Link #22852 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
|
Ah I see. I didn't see the last sentence on that one stating, "...but there is the possibility that it was another person, when she started asking questions about George."
Though I still think a single personality Yasu can exist based from Maria's lines in the Musou Rosa scene and her actions in EP7; but I'm glad he confirmed it so I have a target to shoot at least on that part :P |
2011-06-14, 00:49 | Link #22853 | ||
Senior Member
|
Quote:
She downloaded the Shannon personality to interact with certain people, but because it was in that role that she started to fall in love with George. That's why Beatrice (Yasu as a witch) and Shannon (who is a whole different role than Beatrice) are always bickering about love. For me it's an inner struggle of Yasu who didn't know whom to love. Of course the decision to love is in a way the decision for one certain role....so on a "psychological gameboard" it could be represented through her shifting into another personality and then killing George. Quote:
And by the way he's talking about it, I'm really sad we never got tho experience Land of the Golden Witch. Would have been nice if it had become a real hardcore orthodox mystery. ^^° |
||
2011-06-14, 04:15 | Link #22854 | |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
|
Quote:
Anyway I find funny how the only thing he straightforwardedly spinned the beans about is something that noone (that I know of) ever thought about. I'm talking about the "4th 5th and 6th" twilight of EP2. Even Keia was surprised. Sure the trick of the well was pretty obvious in EP4 a lot of us understood that, but to think that that was the solution of this particular crime. Will's "solution" didn't help at all, at best it simply affirmed that everyone inside the room was really dead (but that's far from being a solution). Still I'm not sure I understand well the setting but I'm skeptical about such trick actually working in a real scenario. If the gap was small as I would expect the gun would easily stuck, if it was too wide it would stand out. Also I'd need to think it was at least a small gun (that was never seen or mentioned) to even consider the possibility because the winchesters are really too big. I also go by the assumption that Shannon killed George and Gohda with the gun and only later inserted the stakes in the wounds, because it would be too retarded otherwise. So three gunshots in total. I guess that the Mansion has pretty thick walls. That or Battler is deaf. And yet the gunshot at the end of EP1 was heard pretty clearly. btw was it chronotrig who insisted that that corpse wasn't Shannon's? That apart from the whole interview I didn't detect any hint about a fake serial murder plot, from neither side. But without it I really can't explain how could so many people go along with Yasu's insane plan. Also the speculation that the tragedy would have been averted if only Battler groped Shannon's fake boobs is confirmed! Stupid Jessica...
__________________
|
|
2011-06-14, 09:36 | Link #22856 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2011
|
In Episode 1, Battler clearly said that the Mansion was in far worse condition than it looked(not a direct quote, but he said that with time the Mansion has gotten pretty worn out or something like that).
Not sure if that effects hearing gunshots through the walls. Btw, does this mystery really use the Van Dine's rules? After all, Battler was never introduced to them, however he found out the truth(even though it wasn't exactly confirmed it follows Knox either). Meaning, the stuff that Van Dine's prohibits that is not in the decalogue might be a really big hint? Gonna read this interview later. |
2011-06-14, 09:44 | Link #22857 | ||
Senior Member
|
Quote:
Genji was probably busy detaining Rosa and Battler, as he probably lead them outside to take a look at Nanjô's and Kumasawa's corpse when Shannon killed Gohda and George in Natsuhi's room upstairs. Through the rain and wind it was probably impossible to hear the gunshots explicitly. It's a pretty good explanation for why Genji decided that exact moment to reveal the corpses, when it's clear that he conspired with Shannon/Yasu in the scene where "Kanon" killed those two. If we think outside the witch illusion, he might have known the whereabout of the corpses all along. Quote:
|
||
2011-06-14, 13:19 | Link #22858 | ||
The True Culprit
|
Quote:
Also, he confirmed that Halloween Santa Kinzo is canon so ALL IS FORGIVEN FOREVER. Quote:
__________________
|
||
2011-06-14, 14:12 | Link #22859 |
BUY MY BOOK!!!
Join Date: May 2009
|
General somewhat snarky thoughts:
Spoiler:
For example, look at this part: Spoiler for Speculation on the scorpion charm:
__________________
|
2011-06-14, 14:19 | Link #22860 | |||
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
|
Quote:
Of course that Kinzo is an illusion, but so goes for everyone, including the Kinzo shown in Ep8. If we can't at least trust that the game master of the various stories at least tried to portray the real nature of the people involved then it's as if we don't know anything about anyone. Jessica could be a refined lady, George could be a demented slob (actually...), Maria could be an impressively level headed child and so on. It's kind of disappointing. Kinzo was unfairly portrayed as a family hater for 7 episodes just because. Quote:
As for the servant rule I think that Ryuukishi basically confirmed what I always thought, he wanted to challenge those that already understood that "it was Shannon" because thinking that "it was Shannon" is not quite the truth. In other words while "it was Shannon" isn't completely incorrect, you still need to understand that "Shannon" is just a fake persona, and the real person behind the mask isn't a servant but the goddamn head of the family. Quote:
But hell don't let me get started on all the wrong things that I found in that interview. It's so freaking long if I had to comment it all I'd have to write a book.
__________________
Last edited by Jan-Poo; 2011-06-14 at 14:37. |
|||
Thread Tools | |
|
|