Schwarzesmarken - Episode 12 Discussion / Poll [END]

[Kakurin]

Originally Posted by xeviouses

True this, you'd think they would give someone important as Iris immediate medical attention, but no let's take her atop a building and make her watch the sun on the hand of a TSF.

It's what she herself wanted. Both she and Theodor knew that the wound was fatal.

Originally Posted by yanzzy5

Lazy writing if you ask me.

I wouldn't call it lazy writing outright but they could've done a bit of a better job with the camera angle. For example by showing a tree standing between the Axmann lying in the snow and Anett denying her a clear shot. In that case her tossing the gun to Irisdina would've been the right decision.

[MgMaster]

Oh yea, forgot to add. I think we should all give proper mention to Anett for being that one person you don't want on your team when shit starts to go down. Let's see:

- Get's that blonde chick at the beginning killed(btw does the author enjoy killing off all the blondes or something?), Inghild I believe.

- Get's Sylvia killed(you could say Walter dies as a result of that but that's his fault for going yolo on Beatrix so imma pass this one).

- Fails to help Iris by throwing her a gun instead of shooting Axmann herself(c'mon, her firearm skills can't be THAT bad).

She seems fun to be around during downtime though, just not as a comrade-in-arms

[yulinard]

So did Gretel managed to get out from Witch Oven with the Cake (Stasi File)?

[Dysprosium]

Pretty retarded of them not to give Iris immediate medical care/attention.

All in all, it was a pretty forgettable and shitty adaptation.

I don't think this even deserves a 5/10.

[yoshimori12]

did someone got butthurt after watch the final episode???

well, dont forget this is muvluv, to someone who already understand how this francise story line, he wont suprised.


opening - chatting bla bla bla - intense battle - chatting - intense battle - ending all character die except one for witness



btw this series doesnt have much mean, well in 2001 europe will fall into beta

[Sinestra]

So let me this straight instead of shooting Axman Arnett tosses the gun to Iris. Hey dip shit its quicker if you just shoot the person threatening your friend before he can pull out his weapon. Then to add insult to injury instead of taking Iris to a hospital you had time to fly her in her your TSF to overlook Berlin while the sun comes up and have a conservation about the things you want to do and then confess after shes dead. If you would have flown her to the hospital she might have lived and you actually could have confessed to living a breathing person and actually done all the things you were talking about.

man that was bad writing

[Nvis]

Originally Posted by Kakurin-san

It's what she herself wanted. Both she and Theodor knew that the wound was fatal.


I wouldn't call it lazy writing outright but they could've done a bit of a better job with the camera angle. For example by showing a tree standing between the Axmann lying in the snow and Anett denying her a clear shot. In that case her tossing the gun to Irisdina would've been the right decision.

How the hell did Axmann's lackey survive, then?

Was that Gretel in the hospital? She survived?

[Kakurin]

Originally Posted by Nvis

How the hell did Axmann's lackey survive, then?

Was that Gretel in the hospital? She survived?

Not every injury is the same. The amount of blood loss between the two cases you named and Irisdina's case it quite different. They could've done a better job in the visual approach (like the thing I mentioned with Anett tossing the gun that could've been easily explained away by blocking the line of sight with a tree after Axmann got tossed away by Irisdina) but it's not bad writing per se.

[mergele]

@MgMaster
You could promote her to general or something. The operations she is part of in the end succeed and once she is high enough up the ladder a few grunts more or less don't matter anymore.

[xeviouses]

Originally Posted by yoshimori12

did someone got butthurt after watch the final episode???

well, dont forget this is muvluv, to someone who already understand how this francise story line, he wont suprised.


opening - chatting bla bla bla - intense battle - chatting - intense battle - ending all character die except one for witness


btw this series doesnt have much mean, well in 2001 europe will fall into beta

Death is nothing new to Muvluv and in fact revels in it, however just saying death is common isn't such a good excuse especially since Muvluv had more understandable deaths. e.g. Takeru's harem dying makes sense, they're are in a HIVE afterall and are mostly buying time for him.

Originally Posted by Kakurin-san

Not every injury is the same. The amount of blood loss between the two cases you named and Irisdina's case it quite different. They could've done a better job in the visual approach (like the thing I mentioned with Anett tossing the gun that could've been easily explained away by blocking the line of sight with a tree after Axmann got tossed away by Irisdina) but it's not bad writing per se.

The entire scene would have been better if Anett was nowhere near it, her presence just adds a lot 'would have been' scenarios that couldn't be explained away without massive suspension of disbelief. Bad shot? Iris had some distance from Axmann, it doesn't matter if Anett actually hit him or not, at least provide cover for her captain.

Irisdinas death in the LN was slightly less contrived, doubtful that Katia would know anything medical treatment beyond what is taught at basic. Still pointless though.

In the anime, Iris got shot in the abdomen and Anett just stands there and calls Theo who, also just stands there instead of I don't know, trying to staunch the bleeding? Then there's Iris refusing medical treatment for no rational reason other than the author needing a martyr.


Anett...the number of your comrades deaths on your hands is amazing really...

[MgMaster]

Originally Posted by xeviouses

Anett...the number of your comrades deaths on your hands is amazing really...

Theodor might've been a jerk back then, but he was right on this one:

[Harbinger]

By the way, what happened to the girl with glasses? She was shot (and asked why isn't her armor bulletproof) and collapsed.

Did she die? Is she alive and "well"?

[xeviouses]

Originally Posted by Harbinger

By the way, what happened to the girl with glasses? She was shot (and asked why isn't her armor bulletproof) and collapsed.

Did she die? Is she alive and "well"?

She's alive, Gretel is the one Anett visits in the hospital.

[moodie]

For people saying its lazy writing or dumb that she could have been saved, you need to realize these people have seen and been in war. This does physiological damage to people. I know people who are in the army you would die for their country. Its about honor at the end of the day. I wont make it deeper than it is but I found her death to be fine. Maybe because I have a different perceptive on this show but overall it was a nice ride. 7/10 from me, a good show that could have been better with 2 cours and more fleshed out development.

[Kakurin]

Originally Posted by xeviouses

Bad shot? Iris had some distance from Axmann, it doesn't matter if Anett actually hit him or not, at least provide cover for her captain.

If there is a tree blocking the line of sight between Anett and Axmann she can do nothing without circling around the tree first (which would've given Axmann enough time to pull out his gun and shoot Irisdina anyway) - neither killing Axmann nor providing cover - or do you think a small hand gun can blast through a tree? No suspension of belief would've been necessary had the staff just did that little visual tweak to put something in-between Anett and the Axmann lying in the snow to give the latter cover.

[xeviouses]

Originally Posted by Kakurin-san

If there is a tree blocking the line of sight between Anett and Axmann she can do nothing without circling around the tree first (which would've given Axmann enough time to pull out his gun and shoot Irisdina anyway) - neither killing Axmann nor providing cover - or do you think a small hand gun can blast through a tree? No suspension of belief would've been necessary had the staff just did that little visual tweak to put something in-between Anett and the Axmann lying in the snow to give the latter cover.

Yeah, but they didn't, that's why we're having these arguments.


Bah some parts the writers did right, others just lacking.

[Tong]

lol people defending this subpar writting in the anime, but I'm not surprised...
Now I want to see the VN/source material even more.

[Kakurin]

Originally Posted by xeviouses

Yeah, but they didn't, that's why we're having these arguments.

We are having this "argument" because you didn't pay attention when reading my previous post that you quoted.

[sion21]

Originally Posted by Kakurin-san

If there is a tree blocking the line of sight between Anett and Axmann she can do nothing without circling around the tree first (which would've given Axmann enough time to pull out his gun and shoot Irisdina anyway) - neither killing Axmann nor providing cover - or do you think a small hand gun can blast through a tree? No suspension of belief would've been necessary had the staff just did that little visual tweak to put something in-between Anett and the Axmann lying in the snow to give the latter cover.

lol that is pretty bad excuse, there is no way it would quicker for Anett to throw the gun at distance, wait for it to land at Irisdina, catch it and then fire rathe than move a step side way and shoot at axeman even if there is a tree conveniently completely cover Axeman. and most importantly, Axeman would have just ran away instead of firing if he hadn't saw the pistol being thrown.


and for Irisdina medical care? if she have survive long enough to wait for Theodore arrive, take here to roof top and watch sunrise, i am sure with immediate modern medication, she could or should have survive, what ever the case, this is bad writing/directing. i mean a much logical ending would be Annet not being there at all or she shot Axeman and Axeman shot Irisdina. and all this take place right at top of a hill so she can still have that sunrise and overlooking the town moment with theodore and bleed out in minute, instead of acting like some kind of immortal with no medical attention until a really good moment to die

[Arya]

This is not a show I'd start nitpicking too much, it felt too rushed to even start doing it. About the last episode Irisdina's demise was almost ok, of course I thought there has to be a reason Arnett threw her the gun, like something on her line of fire, also, she didn't see Axxman gun since he had it hidden until then. I think the problem is more due to the execution, but yeah, the thing was, Irisdina had to die (possibly in a high noon showdown fashion).
Also her dying scene was ok. Anime logic. So, cute if not for Theodor.

Yeah, Theodor was quite inconsistent, everything what he said to Irisdina was a bit, misplaced? I mean he spoke to her like she was Lise, she was the one he wanted to be the happiest, the one he wanted to protect... come on, so he really didn't care about Lise that much? He looked like he completely forgot about Lise. (fact that could fit with his behavior when Lise was alive, but more due to his general inconsistency).

I have already said how I didn't like Katia, right? So the very end didn't amuse me
She felt a useless character that didn't earn what he got (I don't like these kind of useless-princess characters).

But all in all an enjoyable show, too fast and rushed to even start complaining about writing. I mean, the whole Lise be or not to be a spy thing has been terrible, still the weight of her tragic character still made things work.
What I liked is the sense of danger that usually misses in this shows. I felt it for our crew for the most part of the show. So especially when they got imprisoned.
Fights were good, even if they are not my thing.



Short haired Gretel is cute!


Side and unrelated note, when the OP kicked in it felt really misplaced to me and for some reason I was expecting Kira Yamato to appear soon after from above
(but probably because I never listened to the OP so I didn't recognize it immediately.