(L+CR) Shigatsu wa Kimi no Uso (NoitaminA)

[DragoonKain3]

@Arya
Please be patient. It's 2 in the morning here and I need to get up to go to work. Will reply after I get back.

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

To a child, I don't think there's a practical difference between "world class pianist" and "Beethoven".

I'm not sure... as someone living in Canada right now, there was the 'Crosby Craze' almost a decade ago when he was about to be drafted (it might be even going till now, considering practically every Penguins game is televised, but I'm going OT here ). And yeah, judging by that event, kids know that there is a very BIG difference between 'making it pro in the NHL' (world class) and calling someone the 'next coming of Wayne Gretzky' (being compared to a legend). I wouldn't underestimate the knowledge of children, especially if it comes to something either they are passionate or competent in.

Or do you think he had the confidence he would be a world class pianist if he just kept playing?

Sadly, speculation isn't my strong point. All I know is that he was the front runner for a competition that would send him to Europe if he won (so he was definitely just one step from world class), but him losing the drive pretty much put that on hold. Really, the problem with Kousei isn't really confidence, but whether or not someone is pushing his back to achieve more.

How many kids are hailed as geniuses as children... and then forgotten when their talent doesn't bloom?

I'm actually glad you brought this up, because the very fact that he was NOT forgotten (scratch that, recognized on sight!) even after not playing for three years says a lot about how impressive his skills were... to the point where it follows logically that he was already being compared to past legends by the general public.

I'm Asian too, and after rewatching how beat up he was in ep1... yeah, I'm going to call it abuse. There's a point where it's not so much about correcting a behavior, but about taking out frustrations. And I think his mom crossed that line rather frankly.

To be honest, I don't really care what the mom did (which was shown she had already stopped doing it, but whatever) or what other people label it. I just heavily disagree when people say his trauma is the direct consequence of 1) his mom's treatment of him during his younger years and/or 2) his mom's demise, when Arima or his inner self has not made any connection between his trauma to his mom.

[Stark700]

Good performance overall. I think somewhere down the line in this season, we will see a flashback episode involving Kousei and his mother considering the glimpses already shown.

But overall, I thought the episode was great and deserved that standing ovation.

[HandofFate]

Decent episode.
A bit cringeworthy with Kosuke falling into his trauma again, which was expected. I would have been disappointed if he did it fine from the start just like that.

As many have guessed, Kaori is physically ill.
I took note of the contrasting memories of Kosuke's mother. The 'demon' mother side from the gossip around him, and the caring side he remembers. Looking forward to how he moves on after this.

[FlareKnight]

Overall pretty decent.

I'm glad that they at least had that much trouble. It would have been unbelievable otherwise. Though I think the sports friends should have sucked up any complaints considering the fact that they should have known this was going to happen. You don't expose someone to something you know is a problem for them and then get surprised that it's a problem for them.

Was about to force out a solid end to the performance though a long way from actually dealing with the issues.

Not surprising that his mother wasn't always an abusive lunatic. Though shows how many issues Kousei has been dealing with. The mother spiraling downward as her physical condition worsened and Kousei so focused on wanting to make his mother happy and well that he couldn't accept that he was in an abusive situation.

[DOmus]

The face of the other girl when she saw their sight connect, she knows she has no way out of friendzone anymore xD
Good episode , because I read the manga there is nothing unpredictable for me for now ... something that surprised me (like weeks before) is how well done their rehearsal scene was made

it is good (somehow ) that Kousei does not have a full resentment view of his mother since there where good and bad times with her, and somehow, the present with kaori and the good times with his mom are helping him to move on

[DragoonKain3]

BRAVO BRAVO! I enjoyed the episode so much that I had to restrain myself from giving a standing ovation like the crowd did.

I mean, this episode did show that who Arima was at odds with was not with his mom, but with the outside world because "none of them know what they're talking about." Then the show displays that despite what he said to Kaori before, he still felt he was alone as showcased by the ghost figure of his mom in the audience (he's not going to get over his trauma that easily!). He stops playing, but yet Kaori encourages to keep playing with her.

Feeling inspired to keep going, it transitions to him pulling out every ounce of talent and training in him by recognizing that these are things that his mom has left him, and thus she never really left him alone. By recognizing that his mom was still with him, it was then he was finally able to start playing again. Though he started playing, he was still playing his own tune rather than playing with Kaori, of which we can infer from the comments of "It's like a brawl" and "Of course, he's also a soloist". Later on, once he can finally hear Kaori's sound, it was then he started playing with her instead of against her, which led to the brilliant in-sync finish.

PERFECT! Well, it woulda been, but Tsubaki finally seeing that Kousei is pretty serious about Kaori was totally heartbreaking.

So yeah, I have to calm down and collect myself before I can think critically. My replies to others would have to wait... because DAMN that was a good episode.

[MagicaLideaL]

This episode really take my breath away. Marvelous, simply magnificent. The tension that has been building throughout the whole episodes before and the first half of episode 4 finally bear it's fruit. It had me cheering for Kousei deep down the heart just like Tsubaki. This is easily the anime of the season or even one of the best. Well done for the anime team, bravo!

[~Yami~]

This is the first time I watch an anime actually play a whole classical music
breathtaking and priceless... so epic
I love that brilliant free performance from both of them

well, why Kaori fainted?? don't tell me it's a sickness please... just tell me it's exhausted problem

[DOmus]

Originally Posted by ~Yami~

well, why Kaori fainted?? don't tell me it's a sickness please... just tell me it's exhausted problem

In the previous episode she went to a hospital at the scene of the bus, thing about what that could mean...

[thundrakkon]

I really hope Kaori's illness is not terminal. Then again she is playing her heart out as if every performance is her last. It is quite heartbreaking in a way. I really hope this doesn't end up like most Korean dramas.

I was very tense most of the episode, feeling the tension almost every scene. This was a brilliant episode with a brilliant atmosphere. It was almost as if I was there. The music truly was wonderful there in the end. I hope Kaori recovers, and we get to see future performances.

[Mubyoshi]

Looks like Tsubaki just dug her own grave.

[Arya]

^ That was clear from the very start poor Tsubaki

A whole episode on a single performance. Well done. The episode caused me basically anxiety from start to finish Honestly as Arima, I couldn't feel the music at all, I was drawn completely in his personal drama.
One thing is sure, Kaori is beautiful. (She also fainted ). I also liked how she pointed out that music is freedom and not herself.
Surely the pace is not the one I'd expect, but that could be a good sign, since they are not holding back on the predictable steps that means something more is waiting ahead.
Personally I'd like to see more of Tsubaki and Watari. (But what I don't want is to see Watari falling in love with Kaori).

Back to Arima, basically this episode confirmed what I was saying. Interesting that the mother wasn't a strict teacher at all, but a very gentle teacher and mother. I was a bit skeptical about Kaori's role, but it was nice to see that what she did in the end was to help Arima connect with the memory of his lost love for the music, that not by chance coincided with the period in which her mother was still sane and so lovely.
We could almost say that his love and hate for the piano is the way he was able to traduce/convey his feelings for her mother, and his whole journey will be not about music, but about reconciling with his mother. Reconciling with his mother through music.

[Funkatron]

Originally Posted by Arya

^ That was clear from the very start poor Tsubaki

A whole episode on a single performance. Well done. The episode caused me basically anxiety from start to finish Honestly as Arima, I couldn't feel the music at all, I was drawn completely in his personal drama.
One thing is sure, Kaori is beautiful. (She also fainted ). I also liked how she pointed out that music is freedom and not herself.
Surely the pace is not the one I'd expect, but that could be a good sign, since they are not holding back on the predictable steps that means something more is waiting ahead.
Personally I'd like to see more of Tsubaki and Watari. (But what I don't want is to see Watari falling in love with Kaori).

Back to Arima, basically this episode confirmed what I was saying. Interesting that the mother wasn't a strict teacher at all, but a very gentle teacher and mother. I was a bit skeptical about Kaori's role, but it was nice to see that what she did in the end was to help Arima connect with the memory of his lost love for the music, that not by chance coincided with the period in which her mother was still sane and so lovely.
We could almost say that his love and hate for the piano is the way he was able to traduce/convey his feelings for her mother, and his whole journey will be not about music, but about reconciling with his mother. Reconciling with his mother through music.

Actually, I think she started as a good teacher but slowly devolved into strictness the sicker she got. Notice that scene where she was nice she wasn't in a wheelchair or had the oxygen tubing in her nose. Every scene we've scene of her being abusive, she looked much more sickly and was wheelchair bound. My guess is the sicker she got, the more demanding she became due to her knowing she was closer to death and didn't have enough time to mold her son the way she wanted.

Also just noticed: Arima's comment on the "sad piano" in episode 3 is a saying he got from his mother, at least according to the one "good" flashback we've seen.

[cyth]

So many things to whine about this episode, I unconsciously said "This is fucking stupid" while watching.

Kousei has himself convinced of the bullshit the two girls spew out about him making excuses on each turn. Of course, we're prompted to forgive Kaori now because she has a disease and somehow sick children are more mature or something. I can see it coming down to that.

Then Kousei's flashback to a time when his mother was still alive and healthy. We learn after she became ill she became a different person. I guess that's what happens in real world too sometimes, but for purposes of something that aims to be a serious drama it falls deep into cliche territory. His mom's singing was off and that only served to irritate me even more.

The music itself was enjoyable, it actually did make me hold my breath in some parts, but the way it went down was just ridiculously over the top, with the pianist retiring, the awkward pause, the screaming classmates and the finish in which the duo looked like they just had steamy hot sex instead of playing music, a few tears to add some flair as well.

[Dop]

Originally Posted by Funkatron

Actually, I think she started as a good teacher but slowly devolved into strictness the sicker she got.

I'd agree with that. Arima's 'good memory' was clearly from an earlier time than all his bad memories, and it was that happier memory which got him going again.

[Sphire]

Eh, I don't really know how to feel after watching that episode. Sure, it was a tough moment for Kousei, like we all kinda expected, but he managed to pull through in a pretty short amount of time. The whole thing with his mom actually being kind (or being originally kind) was kinda just thrown in, which felt disjointed. But, fine I guess (I did love the spooky ghost image).

For some reason, I felt more of the MPDG trope from Kaori in this episode than I did before. Granted, I do believe Kaori has her own dreams and goals, so that's a positive, but the fact that she seems like the only one who can show/tell Kousei of the magic and beauty of music feels rather...well, bad. The flashback where Kousei is reminiscing of his long-time friendship and experiences with Kaori (sarcasm) was also bad.

I also find the previous foreshadowing of Kaori going to the hospital, whether proper foreshadowing or a red herring, kinda personally annoying. It was too forced for my liking, and now we have Kaori sick and ill. Again, I don't really feel much from it.

tl;dr There's a plot here, and even if it is predictable or cliche, I'd forgive that if I felt the execution was good. Right now, I don't.

[Kanon]

That was pretty much what I expected. The episode seemed to confirm what I've been thinking since episode two: the author dislikes "synthetic performances" as one of the characters put it and is 100% about freedom when playing music. The pre-OP scene alone was very telling. I happen to agree with him so no problems on my end, but those who feel the opposite way may have a rough time with this series.

Originally Posted by thundrakkon

I really hope Kaori's illness is not terminal. Then again she is playing her heart out as if every performance is her last. It is quite heartbreaking in a way. I really hope this doesn't end up like most Korean dramas.

I suspect it is a fatal disease. What she said in the previous episode about playing so that people will never forget her was a major death flag. Plenty of drama ahead. I'd rather take this kind of drama over over-the-top middle school romance drama though. I hope it's going to be handled tastefully.

[Funkatron]

Originally Posted by Dop

I'd agree with that. Arima's 'good memory' was clearly from an earlier time than all his bad memories, and it was that happier memory which got him going again.

I imagine she originally started to share her love of music to her son before she died and it got twisted into making him her successor. Quite sad, imho

[Cloudedmind]

Originally Posted by DragoonKain3

BRAVO BRAVO! I enjoyed the episode so much that I had to restrain myself from giving a standing ovation like the crowd did.

I mean, this episode did show that who Arima was at odds with was not with his mom, but with the outside world because "none of them know what they're talking about." Then the show displays that despite what he said to Kaori before, he still felt he was alone as showcased by the ghost figure of his mom in the audience (he's not going to get over his trauma that easily!). He stops playing, but yet Kaori encourages to keep playing with her.

Feeling inspired to keep going, it transitions to him pulling out every ounce of talent and training in him by recognizing that these are things that his mom has left him, and thus she never really left him alone. By recognizing that his mom was still with him, it was then he was finally able to start playing again. Though he started playing, he was still playing his own tune rather than playing with Kaori, of which we can infer from the comments of "It's like a brawl" and "Of course, he's also a soloist". Later on, once he can finally hear Kaori's sound, it was then he started playing with her instead of against her, which led to the brilliant in-sync finish.

PERFECT! Well, it woulda been, but Tsubaki finally seeing that Kousei is pretty serious about Kaori was totally heartbreaking.

So yeah, I have to calm down and collect myself before I can think critically. My replies to others would have to wait... because DAMN that was a good episode.

I have to completely disagree, if anything this episode showed that his mother is at the heart of his problem. Out of curiosity how many abuse victim confessions have you watched or ever taken any psychology classes? It is very normal for victims of abuse to blame themselves especially if they were really young when it happened. If only I had been quieter, if only I wasn't so incompetent. You guys just don't understand, he's having a hard time at work right now, and sometime he just gets a little angry, or he just had a little to much too drink he's not always like this, and he always apologizes later and is really sorry. If only, if only, it's not always like this, you guys don't understand...excuses and blaming themselves, many of them rationalize their abusers bad actions just like this. Everyone else sees it for what it is, it's usually the victim who disillusions themself, especially when the abuse is at the hands of a close relative. Mom just wants me to be a better pianist, that's why she's so hard on me, if only I was better I could make her happier, you guys just don't understand, none of this is her fault. My god how many times have I read or heard words to that effect.

Here are a couple of articles on abuse and child abuse.

Link
Link
Link

Just because Arima himself doesn't realize that his mother was the problem doesn't make it any less true.

The fact that he sees a nasty image of his mother right before he stops being able to hear the music is also telling. Now later he does have another vision of her but unlike the previous ones it's a happy image from before she gets sick,, leading us to believe that her getting sick was a cause in her change of behavior and attitude. That doesn't change the fact though that towards the end of her life his mother was abusive and left him with mental scars and trauma.

[Arya]

Originally Posted by Funkatron

Actually, I think she started as a good teacher but slowly devolved into strictness the sicker she got. Notice that scene where she was nice she wasn't in a wheelchair or had the oxygen tubing in her nose. Every scene we've scene of her being abusive, she looked much more sickly and was wheelchair bound. My guess is the sicker she got, the more demanding she became due to her knowing she was closer to death and didn't have enough time to mold her son the way she wanted.

Also just noticed: Arima's comment on the "sad piano" in episode 3 is a saying he got from his mother, at least according to the one "good" flashback we've seen.

Yes, the "interesting" was implying exactly that. We were discussing about upbringing and westerns and eastern differences about that, being the eastern one more strict and the like, justifying somehow Arima's mother. And this episode answered at that showing that Arima's mother was not even a strict teacher nor mother. So she was not coming from any strict upbringing cultural legacy. She, as you said, devolved from being a gentle teacher and mother into abusing his child the the sicker she got. (as I wrote myself a page ago).
The episode basically confirmed Arima being a victim of abuses.
If I have to say the saddest part of the episode was the juxtaposition of the healthy and kind mother vs. the abusing one.

About the episode as a whole, it was the weakest of the row. As I said I didn't even hear the music this time, so about Kaori as I said I can only say she is beautiful, but I also don't like how she has been handled as a whole til now.