2020-12-02, 10:49 | Link #3741 | |
今宵の虎徹は血に飢えている
Join Date: Jan 2009
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But strangely though, the average China urban person today seems much more open to foreigners from outside PRC territory (ignoring their government's racist policies towards minorities since I'm talking about normal people here) than the average Japanese is to people from outside Japan. Chinese are wary and may look down on you, Japanese OTOH feel flat out hostile at times. As in they actually resent you. Then again, considering the circles I am generally exposed to, the people I encounter may just be weirdos
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Last edited by Cosmic Eagle; 2020-12-02 at 11:23. |
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2020-12-02, 12:07 | Link #3742 |
Moving in circles
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Singapore
Age: 49
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But that's what I meant: The end goal of any unified Chinese polity throughout history has always been assimilation. It does not occur to the Chinese mind that a foreign ethnic group would want to preserve its distinct identity while being part of the empire. It's a choice between a what they feel is the superior civilisation and barbarianism. And if you choose to be "barbarian", you will be assimilated by force. That is more or less what is happening right now in Xinjiang and Tibet. The average Han Chinese simply would not comprehend why the Uighurs and Tibetans would want to stay separate. And that's even before CCP indoctrination.
It's very openly known that senior CCP leaders expect Singapore to be more understanding about Beijing's motives because we are a Chinese-majority state. As far as they are concerned, the other ethnic groups in Singapore are no more than an afterthought; to the mainland Chinese mind, they are subordinate races, who will eventually be assimilated. It's a stubborn misunderstanding on China's part, and our diplomats have to constantly remind them that we are a multi-racial sovereign state. I don't think they're getting the message. Either that, or they think that we're simply putting up a polite front, while continuing to "subjugate" the minority races. Urban Chinese who've had the chance to study and work abroad will obviously be more cosmopolitan and urbane. That's in fact the same for the Japanese who have also worked, studied or lived abroad. I'm talking about the average Han Chinese, and they are as racist as they come. Not in the same way as the black-white divide in the US, but in the sense of cultural arrogance and chauvinism. To them it's a matter of pride and patriotism, and they don't really grasp how it looks from an outside perspective. Racism in Japan, I think, is the same. The average Japanese truly does not believe he's being racist. He sincerely believes he is upholding and preserving a superior cultural identity. |
2020-12-02, 22:32 | Link #3743 |
今宵の虎徹は血に飢えている
Join Date: Jan 2009
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I meant urban Japanese unfortunately. Academic high flyers in STEM to boot. Everyday people just are clueless and not used to foreigners, generally speaking, so they resort to stereotypes but those in academia are extra malicious. Although I suspect being in the ivory tower of the lab where you are king for too long does things to one's brain since this seems common to academics everywhere
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Last edited by Cosmic Eagle; 2020-12-02 at 22:44. |
2020-12-02, 23:33 | Link #3744 |
Seishu's Ace
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Kobe, Japan
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Having lived in Japan for several years now, I would say a couple of things. First, it's a very racist society. And second, it's a different sort of racism than we see in the West.
I think a good illustration of this is the infamous ANA "big nose" ad of several years ago. Indisputably one of the most racist advertisements in decades, anywhere - awful. And at the time, it never occurred to the people who made it that it was racist. They just didn't think about that as a problem. What we see as racist they tend to see as so self-evidentially true (to wit: the superiority of the pure Japanese in every way) as to be above controversy. The Ainu would take issue with the notion that the Japanese have no experience living in a multicultural society, I'm sure. But it's all relative. The response of nationalists to the Nike ad has been twofold - an abject denial that racism exists here and an accusation that America is riddled with it (as if the two are directly connected). To the Japanese right, their belief system demands that they deny even the existence of racism in Japan. Because if racism exists, it both invalidates their entire ethos and means all of them are racists.
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2020-12-03, 03:13 | Link #3745 | ||
Moving in circles
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Singapore
Age: 49
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What I was trying to explain, however, is how I think the Japanese regard racism. The concept is alien to them in the local context. The Japanese, I believe, are aware of racism, but it's based on what they see in foreign media, especially programmes from the United States, where racism tends to be framed in terms of white- versus black-American populations, ie, the legacy of slavery. Racism in Japan: A conversation with an anthropology professor The professor, John Russell, was urged to write a book. He did just that and "Japanese Views of Blacks: The Problem is Not Just Little Black Sambo" was published in 1991. Quote:
Case in point: The French appear unable to understand why the Charlie Hebdo caricatures of Islam and the Prophet Muhammad are regarded as deeply offensive — and racist — in Muslim-majority countries. It's a very complex situation to unravel, because I can see where the cartoonists are coming from. The French have a very strict understanding of secularism, as well as the separation of state and religion. Religion, to the French, is fair game for satire and criticism. But that understanding is being pit against Islamic societies where the religion represents the entirety of their identities. To embrace Islam is to embrace a totalitarian approach to life, where the Quran and Islamic traditions dictate every aspect of your life. This is a classic clash of civilisations. The French will never concede to being racist on this particular issue — but to Muslims in France and beyond, the cartoons amount to hate speech targeting a specific group of people, ie, it's blatantly racist. So, racism is more actually much more complex than it at first appears. Racism in Japan needs to be tackled differently from how it's being confronted in the US. |
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2020-12-03, 11:41 | Link #3746 | |
AS Oji-kun
Join Date: Nov 2006
Age: 74
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I don't see racism here myself. Racist whites in the US don't care if a Black person is a mainstream Protestant, an evangelical, or a Catholic. They're reacting entire on the basis of skin color. I'm sorry that some Muslims are offended by the Charlie Hebdo cartoons, but I can't support their views any more than I can support American evangelicals' beliefs about gays. I'm a proud secularist. I'm wary of commingling racism and religious bigotry as if they are both the same. They're not.
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2020-12-03, 12:01 | Link #3747 |
He Without a Title
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: The land of tempura
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I'm subscribing to what SeijiSensei said. Careful to not just add every kind of discrimination into the same basket. It's definitely not the same to discriminate based on religion versus based on the color of your skin. Even in France you could make an argument that there is strong discrimination against those of Arab descent that gets regularly conflated with religious discrimination but they are not the same thing.
For instance India and Pakistan both have, for historical reasons, large issues with religious discrimination. That said: believing that a caricature of your religious figure of choice is a racist attack on you and hate speech is a bit hard to justify. Don't get me wrong, it can totally be hate speech (look at the black face comics in the US for example), but correlation does not imply causation.
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2020-12-03, 19:04 | Link #3748 | |
Seishu's Ace
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Kobe, Japan
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2020-12-03, 20:15 | Link #3749 | |||
Moving in circles
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Singapore
Age: 49
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Now, first off, there is no justification for the murder of innocent civilians just because someone was offended. The attacks in France and elsewhere, as a response to the Charlie Hebdo cartoons, are deplorable and cannot be condoned. And certainly there is no equivalence between what the caricatures represent and what the attackers did. I am not suggesting there is. What I am saying though is that the offence caused by the Charlie Hebdo cartoons is real, and it is perceived as a racist attack by some Muslims. It doesn't matter whether you think it's a mistake to conflate bigotry and racism — what does matter is that you have to understand that for some Muslim-majority societies, religion and race are one and the same. Case in point: It's explicitly written into the Malaysian Constitution that to be Malay (the majority race in Malaysia) is to be Muslim. You cannot be a Malay Christian in Malaysia — that would make you an apostate, and you can be charged in a syariah court. You are entitled to your opinions about the state of things in Malaysia, but you have to bear in mind that the issue itself is not up for debate in the country. Islam is part of Malay identity. So, to attack Islam the way the French cartoonists have done is akin to attacking a racial group. In short, it's racism to people like the Malays of Malaysia. It's racism as well, to some of the disadvantaged French citizens and residents of Arab descent as Dextro noted: Quote:
To bring this back to the original point: The reason that the average Japanese does not understand why he is perceived as racist is simply that for the him, all Japanese have light skin colour, speak Japanese and behave Japanese. For him, there is no other race in Japan, so where is there even the possibility of "racism"? To the outsider, it's an obvious mistake, stemming from an obvious ignorance of Japanese with mixed parentage, as well as Japanese of foreign descent. It's a mistake further compounded by the national distrust of foreigners — if you look different, ie, if you are black or white, you stick out as an obvious foreigner. To the Japanese, "you are not one of us", and so there will be discrimination. To the Japanese, this is something so self-evident that it'll never be up for debate. To everyone else, it's racism and xenophobia. |
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2020-12-04, 08:48 | Link #3750 |
He Without a Title
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: The land of tempura
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I get what you are trying to say TinyRedLeaf but I still believe that you are making a mistake (which, coincidentally is the same mistake some religious people make): race and religion are not one and the same. And yes, this coming from a european background, I can definitely point to multiple times across my lifetime where someone was being discriminated against because they "looked" muslim only for the discrimination to magically go away when it turned out that the person was Sikh for example.
Or the other way around: people who are caucasian and just so happen to be Muslim but suffer no visible discrimination until people learn of their religious beliefs. Just look at the Balkans region of Europe today and you can see multiple examples of such issues (the ex-Yugoslav states for example). This is racism. The act of discriminating on someone based on their looks. Discriminating based on religious beliefs is something else entirely. That's the only point I'm trying to make here. Both are obviously equally bad but, imho, there is much blurrier line on where religious discrimination starts and fair criticism ends. This is where many from the Muslim faith (and evangelical, christian, etc) tend to find themselves outraged at what you correctly named as culture clash. Now there is a big issue around this whole subject in that religious beliefs, broadly, tend to follow racial divides as well. The Uighurs in China for example who just so happen to also be majority Muslim. Japan is actually a curious case where religious discrimination is not quite the most important factor in the real issues with discrimination in the country given the fact that Japan as a country is not one of particularly fervent belief in modern times (they are neither militantly secular like the PRC nor a religious state like Malasia) so it becomes even more obvious that the main reasons people get discriminated against in the country is due to the way they look, not beliefs. And btw I strongly disagree with the idea that the Charlie Hebdo caricatures were "racist". I believe this is really a cultural clash, one between European values where we accept that religion as a topic is up to scrutiny and criticism and modern day muslim values where such things are completely unacceptable. Ironic that this is the reverse of what happened during the middle ages (where the Arab and Muslim worlds were the drivers of critical thinking and the advance of human knowledge and christian Europe was suppressing ideas and criticism). At the end I think we're just debating semantics here. If you want to believe that they are one and the same then by all means do so, it's not really a problem. It only becomes a problem when people believe that their faith is above criticism. That, to me, is a massive massive issue and one that throughout human history has toppled civilizations and actively prevent the civilizational progress of mankind as a whole. PS: yes, I've read Dune and am aware of its ties to the Mulsim faith. Good books, I agree with the recommendation
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2020-12-04, 10:30 | Link #3751 | ||||
今宵の虎徹は血に飢えている
Join Date: Jan 2009
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Which just highlights your point that it's more xenophobia than racism. Same deal throughout East and Southeast Asia Quote:
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Either way, unlike what the neo-atheist crowd these days think is fashionable, discrimination based on religious belief including discrimination against the religious by those who aren't, is as bad as racism. It just doesn't have as catchy a word for it since "sectarianism" doesn't quite capture the meaning correctly (even though atheism or secularism is as much a sect as theistic religions. They are all ultimately philosophical views and praxis anyway) Quote:
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Last edited by Cosmic Eagle; 2020-12-04 at 11:47. |
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2021-01-26, 15:46 | Link #3753 |
AS Oji-kun
Join Date: Nov 2006
Age: 74
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These are extraordinary works of art, yet I have never heard of them before.
Japanese Farmers Plant Specific Strains of Rice to Grow Colorfully Illustrated Fields https://returntonow.net/2020/01/25/j...t-rice-murals/
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2021-01-30, 18:25 | Link #3755 |
AS Oji-kun
Join Date: Nov 2006
Age: 74
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I'm surprised I've never included a link for Yoyoka in this thread, so here is her YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCWQ...ivfvB4Cbtm_17g.
She started performing on YT at five; now she's eleven. She's even been on The Ellen Show in the States; they flew her over from Japan. Here she is at seven: And just a few weeks ago: She recently took up golf.
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Last edited by SeijiSensei; 2021-01-30 at 18:35. |
2021-03-04, 12:43 | Link #3756 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
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Japan’s Gun Laws Worked So Well They Need to Ban Crossbows
"Now, the Japanese government is considering banning most people from buying, selling, or owning these semi-automatic bow and arrows. After a series of horrific crimes using the weapons there are now pending revisions to Japan’s laws which will limit their usage to sports and tranquilizing animals. The new revisions are expected to be passed in the current session of the parliament." See: https://www.thedailybeast.com/japans...-ban-crossbows |
2021-03-04, 13:15 | Link #3757 |
RUN, YOU FOOLS!
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Formerly Iwakawa base and Chaldea. Now Teyvat, the Astral Express & the Outpost
Age: 44
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French's fierce secularism come from the slow and grudging dismantling of the power the Catholic church held over the French public society, and the traumatism over the Catholics vs Protestants religious wars. Laicity is supposed to guarantee that everyone should be able to practice their faith in peace, as long as they dont practice active proselytism or try to grab political power.
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2021-03-05, 08:06 | Link #3758 | |
AS Oji-kun
Join Date: Nov 2006
Age: 74
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2021-03-15, 11:14 | Link #3759 | ||
AS Oji-kun
Join Date: Nov 2006
Age: 74
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It's been almost twenty years since Nakajima Youko in Twelve Kingdoms was harassed by her parents to dye her red hair black. It's especially sad when schools enforce similar ridiculous policies.
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When asked to remove their underwear, do the schools provide a replacement white pair, or do they expect their kids to spend the day going commando? I bet those rules are applied more stringently to girls than boys. Wonder how all those anime and manga high-school romantic comedies go over in schools where dating is banned?
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2021-03-15, 16:35 | Link #3760 | ||||
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
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As for "colourful pantsu," that article puts the classic scene of Kaji telling Asuka from Neon Genesis Evangelion "aren't you a little young to be wearing that?" in a new light, when she was trying to see what she looked like in a bikini. Quote:
All this enforced conformity can't be good for the mental health of the students. People are not factory products, precision-machined to be identical and fungible. Quote:
But once again, who exactly benefits from the "no dating" policy over in Japanese schools? People will develop feelings for others no matter what policies are in place. |
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culture, discussion, japan, japanese culture |
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