Guilty Crown - General Discussion

[djmaca]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I see. I can kind of get that.

There was a vaguely taunting tone of voice to what Shu said to Gai. I was simply pleased to see him actually show the backbone necessary to stand up to Gai in front of loads of Funeral Parlor members, but I will admit that the way he said what he said to Gai could have been better, yeah.

I think Gai deserved all the trash talk out of Shu. At least now, one knows how the other acts...

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

This for me; it's basically an eye-roll-worthy moment.

I disagree. I think you're making it out to be worse than what it is.

If he doesn't like it that's fine because I'm sure nobody actually liked it, but nobody else was making a scene.

... I wonder how many soldiers went along with military orders that they shouldn't have because they were afraid of "making a scene"?

This isn't as black-and-white as you're making it out to be.

They're not all doing this for fun of it, there's a time limit involve and alot more people could be at risk if they don't do anything,

And like I said, all Shu has to go on there is basically Gai's word. Gai is a man he barely knows when you get right down to it.

How does he know that Gai doesn't have ulterior motives? Heck, even we viewers don't know that.

but he thinks it's something that he could just walk away? What was he going to accomplish with that? And the main reason wasn't because of the death toll, it was because he doesn't want to take responsibility of that.

How do you know that?

Oh, and the importance of this mission seem to be very clear cut judging from the size of that crater.

That crater might be saying nothing more than GHQ is willing to go to extreme lengths to get Gai.

[djmaca]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

That crater might be saying nothing more than GHQ is willing to go to extreme lengths to get Gai.

Gai was going to meet some people when the thing was fired. I think GHQ wanted to get rid of all the pesky people's leaders in one fell swoop than just getting Gai.

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

... I wonder how many soldiers went along with military orders that they shouldn't have because they were afraid of "making a scene"?

This isn't as black-and-white as you're making it out to be.

In case of Soldiers, real soldiers, it's not about afraid of making a scene, it's about professionalism. Every thing they do sucks, just ask any of them, but the difference is they suck it up and do their jobs even if they don't like it.

And I don't even have that much expectation out of Shu, not everyone is cut out for the job, but like Kenji said he clearly doesn't understand the situation. Fair or not, he doesn't have the privilege of refusing the moment he joined them.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

And like I said, all Shu has to go on there is basically Gai's word. Gai is a man he barely knows when you get right down to it.

How does he know that Gai doesn't have ulterior motives? Heck, even we viewers don't know that.

This isn't the time to be worrying about ulterior motives when you have a orbital weapon and a crazy organization more than willing to use it.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

How do you know that?

Because he said it himself.

"If someone dies because I screw up, wouldn't they die for nothing?"

Originally Posted by Triple_R

That crater might be saying nothing more than GHQ is willing to go to extreme lengths to get Gai.

Key word, extreme lengths.

The next shot might not be just an empty beach you know.

[Kaioshin Sama]

I'm not really sure what to say just Yoshino is kind of bleh again in episode 06 with how he writes the characters around whatever cool thing he wants to happen each week. If I had to describe the arc of the episode it's really just more of the same repetition of Shu is a bitch, Inori tries to help him get into the fight but maybe not really (is she using him or what? It seemed like she might have had a change of heart this episode but who knows with this character so far since she's so inexpressive except when doing the cooing to Shu she does sometimes in that Void zone), Gai is a bad leader but the one who has to do it for whatever reason and just punches stuff (this episode was teasing at something to do with the characters back story, but I guess that'll have to wait, but I bet it's insane somehow), and GHQ is mean and wants to kill all humans or at least Japanese ones and Funeral Parlor has to do something to stop them. Basically just been the same plot six times now and then at the end because Inori is hawt and possibly pretends to care about him Shu powers up with the Void power of the week and saves the day, only this time like with Gai there's a hint at her possibly being something else than she appears to be. There's a story within a story to be told here I'm sensing, but I'm just not sure if it's going to be intriguing with Yoshino at the helm.

If I had to pinpoint this shows main problem for me right now it's that it's incredibly thin and shallow in just about every area from the characters, to the plotting, but especially in the exposition of it all. There's needs to be some serious tension in here somewhere too I think. Everything is just presented in a pretty cheezy manner with no real drive behind it in any of the things the characters are doing. It doesn't feel like the characters really have any interest in what's going on, they're just kind of doing things. So yeah just a popcorn show at the quarter mark. Maybe once they finally get around to the characters back story things will get more involving and the characters will have some meaningful connection between one another but today was not that episode.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

In case of Soldiers, real soldiers, it's not about afraid of making a scene, it's about professionalism.

Shu's not exactly a professional though, is he?

I mean, he was basically drafted into Funeral Parlor due to circumstances beyond his control.

So expecting him to be professional here seems a bit odd to me.

And I don't even have that much expectation out of Shu, not everyone is cut out for the job, but like Kenji said he clearly doesn't understand the situation. Fair or not, he doesn't have the privilege of refusing the moment he joined them.

Sure he does. He has the right to make whatever choices he wants to make.

This isn't the time to be worrying about ulterior motives when you have a orbital weapon and a crazy organization more than willing to use it.

How does he know they're crazy as a whole? One really nasty atrocity committed by a handful of men that he saw firsthand?

He was certainly treated very humanely while he was under arrest and being questioned by Segai.

Don't get me wrong, we know that GHQ is pretty rotten because we're seeing a bit more of them than Shu is seeing. But for Shu, there's some mixed messages at play here.

Because he said it himself.

"If someone dies because I screw up, wouldn't they die for nothing?"

That doesn't mean that he doesn't care about people dying in battle. It simply means he has the added concern of not wanting people to die in vain due to him screwing up.

It basically is showing that he's still adjusting to the intense pressure of the situation. It's very realistic for a high school kid suddenly caught up in a major war.

[Stiletto]

Originally Posted by Reckoner

I don't if I can even stomach this anymore, despite wanting to see how much of a disaster this show will turn away. Something so terrible to me that I just can't pull my eyes away from its grotesqueness. Yeah, so bad its good? I dunno. Maybe if I didn't have expectations for it in the first place...

You're mature, aren't you? I'm sure you are. So let's not do any unnecessary trash talking. It really doesn't behoove you to be critical. You know? Critical.

Though I've met about a dozen masochists now saying almost the same thing. So maybe you enjoy it because it isn't your kind of anime and every moment makes you feel nauseated? But, hey! Least most everyone is enjoying this show.

Every show has its up and downs. The largest measure of success is its entertainment value for it's targeted audience. Hence, 'genre'.

Kind of like how I enjoy Rebuild of Evangelion. Just a, you know, example.

[FlareKnight]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

Oh no you don't! Fool me once- shame on me.

It's like what Endscape said, somehow Shu always does something annoying to piss people off in the first half, but ends up doing something cool in the second half. And the cycle restarts every new episode. Basically every time you think he made progress, he reverts back.

Well I'm not falling for that again !

Keep a level head and it should all be fine. Besides if he has another dip you know he'll be fine by the end anyways. This time I think he should be alright, though his ability to say the wrong thing might burn him again.

Originally Posted by Archon_Wing

Watching, and this episode has too many missed opportunities for Tsugumi ass.

I am disappoint.

That's the real disappointment of the episode . Not enough Tsugumi in general...

[Archon_Wing]

Originally Posted by Stiletto

Arguably the same thing said to everyone that doesn't like the show roughly three million times now. And roughly the three millionth and 1st, not like anyone will be listening. It really is starting to bum me out.....




You're mature, aren't you? I'm sure you are. So let's not do any unnecessary trash talking. It really doesn't behoove you to be critical. You know? Critical.

Though I've met about a dozen masochists now saying almost the same thing. So maybe you enjoy it because it isn't your kind of anime and every moment makes you feel nauseated? But, hey! Least most everyone is enjoying this show.

Every show has its up and downs. The largest measure of success is its entertainment value for it's targeted audience. Hence, 'genre'.

Kind of like how I enjoy Rebuild of Evangelion. Just a, you know, example.

I like how some guy is dissing a show, and you're telling him to stop trash talking.... by trash talking. Now you could say the same about me, but I'm honest.

People can watch the show for whatever reason they want. I recommend to not be an internet psychologist and divine their intentions.

[thundrakkon]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I think that one of two possibilities is true about Gai, and I'm cool with either one:

1. Gai's confession was largely, if not entirely, for real. He is being deceitful on some matters, of course, but the pressure of leadership really is mounting on him and perhaps that's part of the reason why he's rushing through his missions a lot.

2. Gai has almost everybody fooled, and his confession was largely for show (though I do think that the cross necklace is an important keepsake for him in any event). Him and Segai are secretly allied with one another, and are playing both sides against each other in machiavellian fashion, with some sort of shared goal in mind. I'm somewhat suspicious here since Gai's meeting with Segai was remarkably cordial given that they're ostensibly on opposite sides of a major conflict.

I am more inclined to agree with you on the first one. It is more than likely that Gai still set up the confession, however, even though a lot of what he said is the truth. His confession felt more like a speech than pouring his heart out to someone he usually is accustomed to confessing to. Besides, he did not need Inori to be in a separate room for him to confess to her. They talk face to face all the time.

I don't think Segai and Gai are allied, since Segai did want to kill Gai with the homing pen. I think the cordial remarks are more in line with how they respect one another's abilities.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I'm curious as to what exactly Shu did in the first half to piss people off.


Was it objecting to a mission where the causality projections were one out of every three Funeral Parlor participants?

I think one of the concerns with Shu at this point was that he was not aware of his social surroundings. There was a device, the Leukocyte, which can destroy all of Japan. It is understandable that he did not agree with a plan that would result with 1 in 3 deaths, but the problem was he did not present a better plan. If nothing is done, more devastation would result, and the Undertakers were willing to sacrifice themselves for the cause.

In some ways, he did not want to take responsibility. He is trying to find an excuse. When Inori approached him, he was about to give another one, and she stopped him right away, stating that she does not like that about him.

It all plays into his weaknesses and how he develops as a character. Personally, I can relate to him, but then again, I can understand how people can be frustrated with him concerning his lack of understanding of his social surroundings.

Originally Posted by Endscape

The head researcher decided not to tell her? I must have forgotten that part. But still, it's not as if Shu getting arrested was a big secret. His classmates and teachers knew, didn't one of them say anything?

The scene had him looking at Shu's mom in the monitor, but did not indicate that he told her. It is possible that they told her, but more likely than not, they did not. Since his mom is not around very often, and Shu does not have close friends, it is unlikely that she would have found out through the classmates. I am sure they will make up some excuse the next episode when he is allowed to return to class again.

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Shu's not exactly a professional though, is he?

I mean, he was basically drafted into Funeral Parlor due to circumstances beyond his control.

So expecting him to be professional here seems a bit odd to me.

Like I've said, I didn't even have that much expectation out of him.

Besides you're the one that brought up soldiers

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Sure he does. He has the right to make whatever choices he wants to make.

Exactly what sort of organization do you think he had joined?

This is a paramilitary rebel faction, not a debate club.

Like it or not, he's a 'soldier' now. Certain things that used to be 'Rights' just became 'Privileges'.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

How does he know they're crazy as a whole? One really nasty atrocity committed by a handful of men that he saw firsthand?

He was certainly treated very humanely while he was under arrest and being questioned by Segai.

Because... They just fired an orbital laser cannon -_-

I'm very certain that tops anything else on anyone's to-do list -_-

Nothing else should matter when someone has an orbital laser cannon!

Originally Posted by Triple_R

That doesn't mean that he doesn't care about people dying in battle. It simply means he has the added concern of not wanting people to die in vain due to him.

It basically is showing that he's still adjusting to the intense pressure of the situation. It's very realistic for a high school kid suddenly caught up in a major war.

Yes well unfortunately, someone just fired an orbital laser cannon -_- Any highschool kid should realize there's more pressing matters at hand than your feelings -_-

Honestly, I'll bet every guy in that briefing room wanted to facepalm.

[djmaca]

@Stiletto

I just can't let a good show go to ruin because of them.

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

Because... They just fired an orbital laser cannon -_-

I'm very certain that tops anything else on anyone's to-do list -_-

Nothing else should matter when someone has an orbital laser cannon!

Yes well unfortunately, someone just fired an orbital laser cannon -_- Any highschool kid should realize there's more pressing matters at hand than your feelings -_-

Honestly, I'll bet every guy in that briefing room wanted to facepalm.

Hmm... I guess Shu should just have walked away and leave FP to get killsatted instead of voicing his concerns out.

[Pocari_Sweat]

Originally Posted by djmaca

...

This logic is flawed. Forums are for discussions, whether it be praise or criticisms. If people want to criticize, they are free to express their opinion as long as its constructive. What's bad is when it's blind hate. Personally, I hate it just as much when a series is all praise and no criticism and it leads to people jumping on you because you apparently breached "sacred ground". Good recent example of this was the earlier eps of F/Z where it was almost blasphemy to criticise the series. In this case it's blind fanboyism.

TL;DR - People should be welcome to provide constructive praise and criticism for any series. However, blind fanboyism and blind hating should be avoided.

[EroKing]

Regarding Shu.

Running away to live another day is something most people would do in real life. Nothing wrong with Shu to think like that. Most adults would normally do that and hell Shu is still just a kid. Yet he has had his special moments by showing some balls. Don't expect him to go GAR all the time as with 16 episodes more to go there should be plenty of WTF revelations.

[Reckoner]

Originally Posted by Stiletto

You're mature, aren't you? I'm sure you are. So let's not do any unnecessary trash talking. It really doesn't behoove you to be critical. You know? Critical.

Thanks! It's nice to know someone thinks I'm pretty mature out there. Sorry that I am expressing how I feel about the show I watched, but you know sometimes you don't like what you don't like huh? Go figure. Don't worry, I'll be back for next week since this show is strangely alluring.

Originally Posted by Stiletto

Though I've met about a dozen masochists now saying almost the same thing. So maybe you enjoy it because it isn't your kind of anime and every moment makes you feel nauseated? But, hey! Least most everyone is enjoying this show.

It's cool that people enjoy this show. More power to them. They can watch this and enjoy it and that's a great thing. I don't. This show to me is terrible. So terrible I find it amusing how terrible it is. Call it masochism if you will, but I just find the show rather funny. Only problem is I had expectations for this before it aired so I am just a tad bitter that the likes of Sawano is being wasted on this show other than something else this season.

In any case I could care less about being in the majority opinion (If that even is the majority opinion which I highly doubt it is).

Originally Posted by Stiletto

Every show has its up and downs. The largest measure of success is its entertainment value for it's targeted audience. Hence, 'genre'.

Guilty Crown has a target audience? I've been trying to figure that one this whole time, care to enlighten me? If it's trying to be popcorn entertainment, then I should be part of that target audience and I can definitely say it fails at popcorn entertainment for me.

Originally Posted by Stiletto

Kind of like how I enjoy Rebuild of Evangelion. Just a, you know, example.

Cool.

[Stiletto]

Originally Posted by Archon_Wing

I like how some guy is dissing a show, and you're telling him to stop trash talking.... by trash talking. Now you could say the same about me, but I'm honest.

People can watch the show for whatever reason they want. I recommend to not be an internet psychologist and divine their intentions.

A bad critique attracts horrible critiques. Not really trash talking as it is confrontation. I for one enjoy butting heads when I can. Not like it isn't something people can't do.

Hahaha! I like you. Divine their intentions? Pretty words. Well, we all are pretty dickheaded when we want to be. You get those urges to respond sometimes. Though this is OT as far as I know.

Too bad for me I imagine. Now I'm paranoid I might have actually offended Reckoner.


Editr: Okay, scratch that. I didn't offend him, just make him sarcastic as all hell. roflmao.

[Archon_Wing]

Originally Posted by djmaca

@Archon_Wing

Ugh trolls like you....

Has this forum degraded into a Trollsville while I was away?

You're welcome to present an actual argument rather than attacking me personally. I don't mind a civil discussion, after all.

@Stiletto <3 I like your style. Thanks for not attacking me.

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by djmaca

Hmm... I guess Shu should just have walked away and leave FP to get killsatted instead of voicing his concerns out.

In that case it just further supports my point that he doesn't care if people die so long as it's not because of him.

[winhlp32]

Episode 6:

- The clown guy must hates his job or something. He justs lets the Funeral Parlor guys do whatever they want. We also find out he gets turned on to whatever Shu is doing. At this rate he'd get stimulated at the sight of Shu mowing the lawn.

- So many potentially homosexual characters in this show. Clown guy and Kenji are the two primary suspects. I like how Kenji treated the whole pulling out of his void as if its foreplay.

- Daryl on the other hand seems to want to make out with his robots. Seriously, is there no normal people among the field agents in GHQ? The clown guy is a nympho, and this guy has anger management issues. I wonder how much the iPad he threw away costed.

- Gai showed himself to be a weaker person, but after all the manipulating and knowing too much, one'd have to suspect if this is all a guise as well to gain sympathy from Shu.

- As expected, Gai is leading a bunch of yes-men, people who'd smile because they can die for him, and it is blasphemy to question his actions. So no, I still find it hard to like Gai and the Funeral Parlor people in general because the group feels like a cult. Everyone is worshipping this one thing and you don't understand why. The people's loyalty is starting to get creepy, and you know these people are all damaged goods of some sort. At least, thats how the anime will probably portray them to be soon enough. I'm not looking forward to that.

- Shu is a big jerk as well. But well...when you're 17 and overly horny, what can you do? I personally blame Oedipus complex...

- No...no love triangle please... though I do want to see Gai blushing when he slips and fall onto a girl's breast.

- "Even if they come up to me crying and apologising, I'll still pull the trigger." Never change, Daryl. You and the clown are the two comic reliefs of the show. Sometimes I'll laugh at Gai, but thats just because I'm laughing at his face, and that gets old.

- Mmm...finally some nice music during the confrontation scene between Shu and Gai. I love the sound of raw strings reaching a crescendo after all.

- Why did Gai had to pull the trigger on the little girl. Surely theres some way to save her. I think this is where Shu and his "not wanting anyone else to get hurt" policy would be beneficial in the future should this kind of scenario happen again.

- Shu's friend was pretty happy when the TV went back on and he saw his team win. I'd be pretty pissed cause I didn't get to see any of the baseball action.

- Inori remains a enigma. I don't even know what she thinks of anyone anymore.

- Despite lots of laughable moments, I have to say I've enjoyed pretty much every single episode of Guilty Crown so far. Its a very fun show, and I'm pretty much treating this as a satire of cyberpunk anime. It helps that the art is gorgeous and the animation is swift and dynamic. And when logic and physics goes bonkers, at least I can say it looked awesome. Its one of the series I look forward to every week.

- 2039: People talk to each other upside down.

[djmaca]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

In that case it just further supports my point that he doesn't care if people die so long as it's not because of him.

Why should he care anyway? First of all their battle doesn't concern him initially, unless we were right on the WMG that Shu IS involved way before.

Second everyone treated him badly, why should he care?