2013-07-02, 18:22 | Link #4061 | |
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 41
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You may wish to re-read the scenes with Kirino's audio recordings to better understand her thinking here.
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2013-07-02, 23:43 | Link #4062 | ||||
Junior Member
Join Date: Jun 2013
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Regarding the discussion on this page, the posts are too numerous for me to attempt any quotes, so I'll just summarize my thoughts.
I don't know that it was stated directly in the LN but if it's true that Rock was a siscon at the three years previous to the beginning of the story, then the reason for Kirino calling him a traitor and him telling her to 'grow up already' are probably one and the same. It seems to me that Rock and Kirino must have some how got into a discussion about having feels for each of their own siblings, and agreed that they would not tell anyone about that discussion. Rock being the siscon that he was and Manami's ability to read people she's close to, he must have confessed the discussion to Manami. After the eventual confrontation of Manami to Kirino about the latter's feelings for her older brother, Kirino would have known immediately that it was Rock that betrayed her. Thus the reason for what they said to each other when Rock and Kirino met before the meeting to help Manami and Kirino improve their relationaship in volume 11, chapter 1 at the Tamura home becomes clear. Quote:
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I didn't understand all this at the time but after reading this page's discussion it seems clear to me now that this must have been the reasoning behind those exchanges between Rock, Kirino, Manami and Kyousuke. It's my firm belief now that this is how Manami knew about Kirino's true feelings for Kyousuke, and thus why Manami counseled Kyousuke to change his behavior after the whole Sakurai incident. Thus resulting in the cold war and the beginning of the story. Manami, albeit wrongly, thought that separating the siblings might be the best way to cool Kirino's feelings. I could be wrong, it's really hard to tell if Manami was planning that far ahead or was just trying to stop Kyousuke from being the reckless superhero he tended to play at the time. It could have also been for both reasons, this story is full of double reasons/meanings like that. Edit: Maybe I'm just showing how dumb or how much or an inexperienced read I am but Hiro Kanzaki seems to have a lot of material that requires a thorough examination in order to truly understand/appreciate everything within the story. Honestly you don't see much writing like this anymore in novels. I know it's kinda cliche to say but a lot stuff nowadays is really to watered/dumbed down. It's very refreshing to see novels with this level of complexity still being created today! Last edited by Drakkar77; 2013-07-03 at 05:53. |
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2013-07-03, 04:24 | Link #4064 | |
Junior Member
Join Date: Jun 2013
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Edit: After read it again, I can see what you meant. I guess I was just trying to clarify it for myself. Thanks |
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2013-07-03, 14:42 | Link #4066 | |
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 41
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For what it is, I'd say it seems pretty fun (though I won't receive my copy for a little bit yet).
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2013-07-03, 16:28 | Link #4068 |
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 41
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Why wouldn't it be considered canon, even if it's a side-story? It's written by the original author and published as part of official OreImo merchandise. There's nothing in it that contradicts anything canonical. Personally, I don't see any reason why it wouldn't be "canon", even though it doesn't directly relate to the rest of the plot points of Vol. 12.
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2013-07-05, 16:19 | Link #4070 |
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Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: None of your business
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Hey, guys! I've been reading up on the Oreimo LNs and forums but I still don't get the question on how Kyousuke fell in love with Kirino in the first place. I mean, I understand how Kirino fell in love with her brother (ever since she was a little kid, looking up to her Onii-chan) but I don't see how Kyousuke outright fell for her. It only seemed like he just started to romantically love Kirino in Vol. 12, preparing his confession for her on their X-mas date. I could only see that Kyousuke fell for Kirino because he is a huge siscon (which he states multiple times). But for him to truly fall in love with Kirino just came so abruptly in Vol. 12. There were really no hints that Kyousuke really truly, romantically loved Kirino before Vol. 12 came out (at least that I know of). That's why many people would always brush Kirino off to the side when it came to which girl would win Kyousuke (and also the incest).
Anyways, I am saying this also to question if the end of the series was even good storywriting on Fushimi's part because it seemed like Fushimi just made Kyousuke fall in love with Kirino in Vol. 12, also revealing Kirino's secret messages in the same volume which we never knew about before this volume came out. Also, people seem to have been let on about the whole premise of the beginning of the story which was about how two hateful siblings would eventually mend their relationship through one's unlikely secret. They never expected a story that would lead to "somewhat" incest so I could see why this would garner some serious backlash and controversy. It kind of spoiled the "siblings get along better" relationships to a "siblings get together" one which left a bad taste in people's mouths who thought the story would just be about siblings getting along better. Regarding the last 3 OVA specials or whatever they're called, REALISTICALLY, what do you guys think these last few episodes will be about? I am kind of hoping all 3 will cover Vol. 12 (most of it hopefully), maybe, with some parts in previous volumes if they are much needed, but I am kind of doubtful about it. I think that the last volume might be made into either 1 or 2 of the specials just to make room for other alternate paths just to make some the fans happy. I think this way because of the controversy and backlash the last volume and ending received by the fans, especially for such a more-than-average and popular series like Oreimo. With a popular series like this, people who only watched the Anime don't see the ending that's coming. If it totally ends like Vol. 12 then even more controversy and backlash might be created for this series because people were let on by the premise of the series (siblings get along better) and the incest. I even greatly fear that the Anime will give a totally different ending than the light novels just so they don't get the backlash as they did with light novel ending. By the way I am speaking, I am pretty sure that I am in a neutral stance with the light novel ending as in I am 100% okay with it after understanding the "true" meaning behind the epilogue (e.g. the "kiss" and the life-counseling) which most people will never understand. Well, people will still argue that they forever stay siblings (with no romantic love between them) but I believe that there is much more evidence to think otherwise. |
2013-07-05, 17:39 | Link #4071 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
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Joking aside, it's clear from volume 4-5 that Kyousuke like girl with long, black hair. And in Volume 10, he acknowledge that Kirino's action helped him a lot to get an A. So I think by this point, his feeling toward Kirino had changed from a sister complex to love. Quote:
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2013-07-05, 17:53 | Link #4072 | |
Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: None of your business
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2013-07-05, 18:25 | Link #4073 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Germany
Age: 30
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I'm sorry for shattering people's hopes of this being a normal story of two hating siblings reconciling;it being mainstream with no sexual themes doesn't necessarily mean there is nothing ''abnormal'' going on. How dense can you be? A little sister playing little sister based eroge and possibly not having ulterior motives? Maybe you have been caught of guard when she shrugs it off by saying ''they are just cute''. This has always been a love story and you can see it from season two, the fact of the bro-conXsis-con thing makes it clearer. If anything, you can take hints from Kirino of possibly having these kinds of feelings towards him,it was made clear in the anime from her interactions and how she acts around when other girls are around him. As for the anime adapting a different ending, I don't want to think so and I think any ending other than in the novel is outrageous and even more misleading. People now think that its Kuroneko for sure(Kirino being the Imouto is a disadvantage of course) but there are signs and leads that its a Kirino end. Alternate paths?No,very unlikely. OVAs most likely will be all for Volume 12 since Kirino and Manami agreed on a little talk and fight at the same time(in Volume 12 they did ''talk'' and had their ''fight'' so yeah) and a flashback of events we have already seen(Ep13) and the omission of Sakurai(not reasonable bringing her now). Ep14 might be Chapters 1 and 3 (since 2 was Ayase's part and we had it) Ep15 Chapters 4 and 5 and Ep16 Chapter 6 and the epilogue. Its just me hopeful but I will go with this. Quote:
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Last edited by CrowKenobi; 2013-07-05 at 19:16. Reason: Please use the "edit" button to add content to your post instead of double posting. |
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2013-07-05, 18:34 | Link #4074 | ||
Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: None of your business
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Last edited by relentlessflame; 2013-07-05 at 21:35. Reason: merge double post |
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2013-07-05, 18:44 | Link #4075 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Germany
Age: 30
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Last edited by CrowKenobi; 2013-07-05 at 19:17. Reason: Please use the "edit" button to add content to your post instead of double posting. |
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2013-07-05, 22:27 | Link #4076 | ||
Segmentation fault
Join Date: Mar 2011
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regarding siblings in a relationship, mind you, this is not something new. i'm sure this was discussed multiple times, if not here in AS, in other boards as well. siblings getting together has been with us since ancient times. japanese have izanami and izanagi. greeks have zeus and hera. egyptians have isis and osiris (not to mention cleopatra and ptolemy xiii IRL). literature with themes like this didn't rage upon but is considered as classic! and i also believe oreimo will be a classic in time. to add, oreimo is not even incest as pointed earlier above by others. that should be 'more acceptable' to some. but then again, others think otherwise. EDIT: Quote:
this is romantic comedy. Last edited by kaigan; 2013-07-05 at 22:46. |
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2013-07-05, 22:32 | Link #4077 | ||
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Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 41
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At the end of the day, writing is about trade-offs. If the author had made Kyousuke's feelings even more clear than he did, there wouldn't have been the same suspense. It was written exactly on the line so that the last volume would be surprising, but still connect logically to the development of previous volumes. And preferences notwithstanding, I at least would argue that it shows the author had set this twist in motion a long time ago and was just being sly about it. Because of the above, I think this is the sort of story where knowing the ending influences the way you'd interpret earlier events during a re-watch/re-read. I think the story always was a romantic comedy from the get-go, but there was enough other things going on that you could ignore it in the subtext. This is also a common trait of the eroge that this story is parodying/emulating: the common route is often full of comedy and hijinks, but things become more serious in the second half as you start heading down a certain path. With this show, they didn't explicitly tell you from the get-go "hey, this is like a galge, and is going down a romantic path eventually", but you can see the flow transition particularly as you get into Volume 5 (episode 13-15 of the first anime season). (I noticed in the past that some of the people who found the transition more jarring had only followed the anime and actually somehow missed Episodes 13-15 of the original anime.)
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2013-07-06, 00:39 | Link #4080 | |||
Junior Member
Join Date: Jun 2013
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The main thing to remember about Kyousuke is that at times he is not a reliable narrator. He's flat out lying to himself...and to therefore to us as well. This is more obvious when you look at places in the story when the characters say, 'I hate you' when they really mean, 'I love you'. A good example of this is the very last time we see Ayase in the story, Vol 12 Ch 2 at the very end.
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The reason I included the longer quote is because this a good example from Kirino's perspective as well. He talks about proof of their mutual love but Kirino's actions tell the true story. "She wriggled and squirmed in protest, but I wrapped her arms around her back and somehow also pinned those down." Kirino is not on Ayase's level but is no slouch. She is a very fit individual and I doubt that Kyousuke could have 'somehow' pinned her down so easily if she really didn't want to be. Another reason that I believe this to be true is Kirino never reacts violently or scolds him for this even if he is helping her with Ayase, normally she would get violent if he did something like this. Quote:
I truly wonder if she would have said it was a joke if his immediate response would have been, "And I love my imouto too." I think his hesitation, and the fact of a lot more volumes to come, is what led to her response being the way it was. I think even Kirino believed what he said to Ayase was from the heart, and this ending was her gauging his true response. He hesitated and so she didn't have a choice but to say it was a joke. But they both were very convincing, at different times I thought both 'maybe they do love each other', 'maybe they don't love each other.' It was very confusing but fun to read. Last edited by Drakkar77; 2013-07-06 at 13:41. |
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comedy, harem, romance, shounen, siblings |
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