2013-03-02, 12:42 | Link #81 | |
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The society of Konoha is very similar to the modern japanese/western one in many matters, probably because the author wants the readers to have some feeling of connection. For example not having both parents because they died in ninja missions, in our world because of divorce. But there are also some serious differences. Most notably all the wars in which parents and children die. In the very beginning of the manga we see Naruto's sexy jutsu, which he perfects by looking into adult magazines So i wouldn't worry about his sexual education It's very similar to the modern way of getting to know how these things work As for being asexual, there are studies about modern japanese societies becoming asexual, where many young people simply don't care about these things. You might discuss how much of the japanese society is reflected in the behavior of teenagers in manga stories. |
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2013-03-02, 12:43 | Link #82 | ||
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edit: just reread my original post. i was talking about post-uchiha massacre. so without the uchiha, they are certainly the best clan. if they existed at that time, which i dont think would make sense Quote:
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2013-03-02, 13:02 | Link #83 | |
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No, they had a treaty to create the ninja village, they shook hands in the manga, they were equal partners in creating the village. Of course if Tobito's and other flashbacks tell the truth, we'll see about that in the next chapters. The problem was that while there were 2 almost equally powerful leaders who made the village but the military organization needed one leader. You can't disregard Kishimoto's hints in these 2 chapters where he shows us how competitive Madara is, he tries to be equal even in rock throwing to Hashirama, it's a clear hint that he would not accept being number 2 in the village. Madara feared that the Senju would wipe them out because the Uchiha chose to follow a senju leadership of the village over him. All that was about politics and selfish desires for power and not actual clan strengths. |
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2013-03-02, 13:32 | Link #84 | ||
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2013-03-02, 14:03 | Link #85 | ||
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Let me give an example: Naruto and Gaara fight and Naruto wins and then tries to kill Gaara but then Kankuro defends Gaara by attacking the weakened Naruto with a poison puppet and kills him. But if Naruto decides to spare Gaara and then Kankuro and Temari take him back to sand village then does that mean Naruto could have destroyed the enemy just because he was slightly better than the enemy's leader? What i mean that even if Hashirama was stronger than Madara that doesn't mean that all the other MS/EMS users of the Uchiha clan couldn't have balanced out the clan wars. You simply assume that Hashirama could destroy the Uchiha clan by himself, but we don't know if that's true, and most likely that is not the truth that Kishimoto wants to tell us. I understand that power level differences are too extreme in this manga, and that often makes team efforts and the existence of large organizations unrealistic. I mean even Deidara could have destroyed the whole sand village by dropping first a large invisible bomb with his micro-bombs that can't be detected and then finish them off with a large super-bomb that Gaara stopped with his sand. Akatsuki could have destroyed each village one by one by ganging up on them. So it's pointless to base our discussions on rational deduction based on the assumption that these guys would use their super-powers in the smartest possible way, instead it's better to base the discussion on what the author wants us to think. If the author says that an organization (Uchiha or Senju clan) is strong and matters more than one individual then i rather go with that instead of discussing how Hashirama could have destroyed all the existing clans one by one. Quote:
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2013-03-02, 21:50 | Link #86 | |
The First Rasengan!!
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but more on topic, ill just let kishi tell the story and see how this flashback unfolds...too preoccupied with storm 3 coming
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2013-03-02, 23:31 | Link #87 | |||||
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2013-03-03, 07:23 | Link #88 | |||
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There's only one hokage at a time, future promises in a world like that are pointless. They didn't deserve it, neither should the Senju, the village was not about Senju and Uchiha only. You just disregard other clans that joined the village. From the 3rd hokage on to the future it was the most talented ninja that got the title. If you want to debate that then i think that only the 2nd hokage is in question. If Madara didn't attack and leave the village than he would have been the 2nd. He was the one who failed his clan because of his personal ambitions. Once he betrayed the village his clan was politically weakened. |
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2013-03-03, 10:36 | Link #89 | |
The First Rasengan!!
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the hashirama/madara story is very akin to the original sons of the sage…one philosophy for peace chosen over the other…perhaps the uchiha way should have been chosen. they have discovered that emotion leads to pain and hate and thus sought to seal them away. no winners or losers. but doings so only leaves hate and a lust for more power. perhaps they should have just led together from the beginning...
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2013-03-03, 13:03 | Link #91 | ||||||
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and let me quote my entire earlier post because you seem to not be able to see it. hashirama > madara was just 1 reason, not the be all end all of my point.
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edit: also just pointing out here that the konoha alliance is a 'future promise' in and of itself that these clans would all work together for the better of the village. an addendum that said the uchiha would have equal representation would be just as serious / frivolous as the entire agreement Quote:
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Last edited by itachi-san314; 2013-03-03 at 13:16. |
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2013-03-03, 14:01 | Link #92 |
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I think its a little naive to believe that Konoha during that time, chose its hokages purely based on a meritocracy system free from corruption. Despite the Senju and Uchiha being allies, I think its rather evident that there were still some feelings of animosity and distrust among them that seem to have impacted the choosing of hokages.
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2013-03-03, 15:06 | Link #93 | |||
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It is questionable if the 2nd was the best choice for hokage, but i don't think that we should question the choice of the 3rd and 4th hokages. Quote:
He reminds me of Danzou, they say that whatever they did was for the clan/village, but the reality is that they are just selfish and want to become leaders so bad that they are villing to sacrifice their own people. Danzou made the root anbu children kill each other after they were raised as brothers, Madara made best friends and brothers kill each other. They just wanted a strong army that makes the leader even stronger and use them in wars. But when you see Danzou's flashback about how the 2nd hokage died it's quite clear that the 2nd was worthy of becoming a hokage regardless of the question if there was any Uchiha who could be the 2nd instead of him. Also he didn't hate Uchiha, he just didn't trust them, otherwise he would have ordered that Kagami guy who was in his team to sacrifice himself to get rid of a strong Uchiha. |
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2013-03-03, 15:30 | Link #94 | |
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for the record i don't question hiruzen or minato being hokages at all. also, i dont question tobirama's ability to be hokage. i question the poor judgment of excluding the uchiha (1 of the 2 founding and best clans) from being a leader of the village ever, particularly for the seat of second hokage. no matter what the 2nd hokage would be strong enough being from senju or uchiha and divvying the power up between clans would have been the politically savvy decision ~on a side note i dont think i ever wrote a sentence with 2 words containing double v's... |
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2013-03-03, 20:09 | Link #95 | |
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I would like to see the elders if Sasuke becomes hokage
If Naruto can make hokage of the last Uchiha then he surely has reached the level of the Sage of 6 paths. By now Naruto said so many times that he wants to be the hokage that it would be plain boring if the story ends with that Quote:
Except Tsunade but she was the last choice for hokage, Orochimaru was evil and Jiraiya refused. And Minato was not a senju's disciple, i don't think that Jiraiya has anything to do with them. |
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2013-03-04, 17:19 | Link #96 | ||
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In the flashbacks we see that Kakashi was obviously the star pupil. But once his friends were put in serious danger and his Sharingan awakened Obito fought very well, possibly on Kakashi's level. And he would only improve from there once he got his 3rd tomoe . Imagine if Obito wasn't crushed and that whole crazy Rin dying thing didn't happen. Obito had a Naruto-like dedication to becoming Hokage and Kakashi seems to have more of a "meh" attitude towards it (plus he wouldn't have gotten his Sharingan). Obito would continue to be guided by Minato, who would see his potential and enthusiasm. Could Obito have been set to become an Uchiha Hokage?
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2013-03-04, 18:12 | Link #97 | |
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If that didn't happen then Obito wouldn't be as strong, it was explained that very strong emotions are needed to evolve the eye to MS. Rin's death was probably a huge powerup for Obito. Itachi's reason to torment Sasuke is to make him stronger, so that he would be strong enough to survive all the shit that comes against him when Itachi can't defend him any more, namely Danzou and his minions and later Madara. Sure if there was another way to make Sasuke stronger and thus give him a chance to survive then Itachi's behavior towards Sasuke would not make any sense. |
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2013-03-04, 20:38 | Link #98 | |
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as an aside, i wonder if the color of susanoo is based on the emotion driving it...itachi wasnt driven by hate and his is a lighter color
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2013-03-04, 20:49 | Link #99 | ||
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They were (along with Danzou) the masterminds behind the Uchiha massacre but I think they were able to move that plan because the situation was critical and there seemed to be few other options. Quote:
Anyways, food for thought...
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