Mobile Suit Gundam: Iron-Blooded Orphans Episode 44 Discussion / Poll

[Irenesharda]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

(also, he almost got killed three times in this season if not for Mika repeatedly saving his ass, so we knew beforehand that he’s not infallible).

Actually, that I don't put as being his fault. One of those times he was specifically holding back to not harm Tekkadan soldiers. Another time, he was fighting an MA, which basically is pretty much suicide for anyone not in a Gundam.
And also, he basically was trying to make the best of a Graze Ritter, one of the weakest MS in the show, because he had to pilot it for ceremonial reasons. So that was more if the situation and what he had to work with then it was that he was a faulty pilot.

[Alf]

Originally Posted by tdx

She's been going on family family nonstop, she applied any words of affection she had equally to Mika, Atra and even all of Tekkadan, both outloud and in her thoughts, moreover she repeated at least trice that I can remember this season alone about children like Mikazuki, which pretty blatantly implies that she doesn't see him as a man, at least after Dorts, so I honestly fail to see where you're coming from when claiming that she loves Mika romantically as a man unless it's just your shipping goggles talking.

I would disagree that Kudelia doesn't see him as a man. There was that exchange between Kudelia and Atra about they both like Mika and don't hate each other no matter which of them managed to bound him. Kudelia admitting liking Mika in particular is being shy as a sign of romantic feeling. So at least Kudelia is regarding Mika as a man.

Originally Posted by tdx

You're a hopeless optimist talking like a third season is a done deal. If anything, the tradition of Gundam shows usually being 2 seasons and having 50 episodes, as well as the sheer scale of what's going on in the show right now point to this being the last season.

I was just being lazy to add the line "if there is a season 3", because the way the story is written strongly hints it's just middle of the story. For the most apparent reason, Kudelia didn't do much this season and isn't anywhere near her goal of Mars independance. Even if Tekkadan managed to rule Mars, she didn't earn the independance herself, and that is not how stories are written. Also, this second season is basically about Tekkadan going for the way of violence because they didn't know otherwise, and no matter they win the coming battle or not, the casualty will signify the failure of their way. Then it opens up the question of what is the right way, and what is their true destination, which will resonate the hint of the few people starting to think, and cannot be fully answered in remaining screen time. For the story to end properly, Tekkadan need to search for a better way, join Kudelia, then reach whatever end of their pursuit. To me it's not a problem of being optimistic or not, just the issue of unsolved plot lines.

There might be commercial concerns that prevent a 3rd season, or they might just change the title and continue on the same timeline. But that's not a concern for discussion of the story.

Originally Posted by ~BC~

I really want to know what they intend to do with Iok. This episode it just felt like they used him as a soundboard for Rustal's thoughts. But they've been playing up his scores of loyal men and that he really means well that I can't help but wonder if an incredible upset isn't just around the corner. I mean hell if people genuinely think that Macky can get off scot free with all he's done who's to say they won't do that with Iok.

I won't disregard Iok being a huge liability for Rustal either. If he participates in the battle, depending on where he's positioned, McGillis could get him to make a terrible mistake in battle. Say firing a really powerful weapon with Rustal in the crossfire.

Despite all the hatred towards Iok, I'm afraid that's a likely possibility I would hate to lost Rustal now because he has the entire history of Gjallarhorn on his back, and would like to see how should he be confronted. But he might just get stabbed by the negative legacy(read: Iok) of history, and that Idiok would just claim to inherit his spirit.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

Actually, that I don't put as being his fault. One of those times he was specifically holding back to not harm Tekkadan soldiers. Another time, he was fighting an MA, which basically is pretty much suicide for anyone not in a Gundam.
And also, he basically was trying to make the best of a Graze Ritter, one of the weakest MS in the show, because he had to pilot it for ceremonial reasons. So that was more if the situation and what he had to work with then it was that he was a faulty pilot.

I didn’t mean to fault his piloting skills or his hardwork. Just highlighting that it's been established that his plans aren’t perfect or went smoothly because before this episode, some of his initial plans got thwarted or disturbed multiple times due to outside factors that he failed to foresee, anticipate or prevent. For example, look how Rustal & Galan messed with McG’s reputation with the prolonged war; look how Iok messed with McG’s trip to check out the MA without activating it; look how surprised McG was when Vidar suddenly just came crashing down before he got the chance to climb into Bael (he was lucky Gali didn’t just stomp him right there and then) which stem from his previous blunder of not making sure that Gali is dead. The goddess of luck has been smiling on McG all this time and spared his life multiple times, let's see if she still does in future episodes.

[Irenesharda]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

I didn’t mean to fault his piloting skills or his hardwork. Just highlighting that it's been established that his plans aren’t perfect or went smoothly because before this episode, some of his initial plans got thwarted or disturbed multiple times due to outside factors that he failed to foresee, anticipate or prevent. For example, look how Rustal & Galan messed with McG’s reputation with the prolonged war; look how Iok messed with McG’s trip to check out the MA without activating it; look how surprised McG was when Vidar suddenly just came crashing down before he got the chance to climb into Bael (he was lucky Gali didn’t just stomp him right there and then) which stem from his previous blunder of not making sure that Gali is dead. The goddess of luck has been smiling on McG all this time and spared his life multiple times, let's see if she still does in future episodes.

But I really don't think he could have prevented any of those things you mentioned. He’s planned as best could on all those incidents but he can't plan for everything. That would be impossible.
He might be a lot of things, but even Macky knows he's not a god.
I would actually say that it's less that he’s been lucky and moreso that he’s shown quite the bit of adaptability in facing unforseen challenges that arise.

But as you say, next week, he and Orga will have to put all that adaptability to the test. Let's see if it can save them.

[tdx]

Originally Posted by Alf

I would disagree that Kudelia doesn't see him as a man. There was that exchange between Kudelia and Atra about they both like Mika and don't hate each other no matter which of them managed to bound him. Kudelia admitting liking Mika in particular is being shy as a sign of romantic feeling. So at least Kudelia is regarding Mika as a man.

Did you miss Kudelia going "Ehhh...?" at least twice in that scene? Atra is the one laying her delusions on thick, while Kudelia is scrambling to keep up with her ramblings, trying to dispel the misunderstandings as she goes, except Atra just won't listen. And Kudelia outright calls Mika a child a few times, including in the latest episode, how does that count as romantic or seeing him as a man...? Sorry but it looks a lot like wishful thinking and shipping goggles on instead.

Originally Posted by Alf

I was just being lazy to add the line "if there is a season 3", because the way the story is written strongly hints it's just middle of the story. For the most apparent reason, Kudelia didn't do much this season and isn't anywhere near her goal of Mars independance. Even if Tekkadan managed to rule Mars, she didn't earn the independance herself, and that is not how stories are written. Also, this second season is basically about Tekkadan going for the way of violence because they didn't know otherwise, and no matter they win the coming battle or not, the casualty will signify the failure of their way. Then it opens up the question of what is the right way, and what is their true destination, which will resonate the hint of the few people starting to think, and cannot be fully answered in remaining screen time. For the story to end properly, Tekkadan need to search for a better way, join Kudelia, then reach whatever end of their pursuit. To me it's not a problem of being optimistic or not, just the issue of unsolved plot lines.

There might be commercial concerns that prevent a 3rd season, or they might just change the title and continue on the same timeline. But that's not a concern for discussion of the story.

That's why I'm saying you're a big optimist. We still have 6 episodes to go, yet we're already looking at what for all intents and purposes appears like the grand finale, and you're still talking about there not being enough time? Really? I remember people worrying about the same issue during season 1, about there not being enough time to wrap things up, yet s1 managed to wrap it up just fine despite having a lot less time for it than s2 currently has at its disposal. Things like Kudelia not having much to do can be easily explained by the focus of the story being Tekkadan (it was always on them, from the start, so it's nothing new) and, to a lesser degree, Gjallarhorn, and she's not exactly a member of either.

I wish there were a third season, but I prefer not to delude myself or set myself up for disappointment.

[Benigmatica]

A punch is all it needed for McGills to snap out of his foolishness. Not even his adoptive father has hit him before!

On the other hand, I wonder what's gonna happen to Almiria as she found out that Macky killed Gaelio and her fiance is lying to her? Then again, McGills wanted to create a world without corruption but the Arianhod Fleet are stingy bastards.

As for Tekkadan, it's sucks that they'll be joining one big battle against the Arianhod Fleet and there's no turning back at this point. Hell, Atra doesn't want to lose Mikazuki as she wants him to have babies with Kudelia!

[Skye629]

Originally Posted by Benigmatica

A punch is all it needed for McGills to snap out of his foolishness. Not even his adoptive father has hit him before!

...
...
...
Is that supposed to be sarcasm?


EDIT: Thnx Rising, no idea how that classic gundam reference flew past me

[Rising Dragon]

He's making a reference to Bright slapping Amuro.

[Butagami]

I wonder if we'll get an Atra/Mika post-coital scene next episode, or if she'll just be shown pregnant/with a child in the epilogue or something.

Something that's kind of bugged me is that the MA was an isolated event. If one doesn't show up during the rest of the season, that would be kind of weird. I mean, so much importance was put on them, it's kind of a waste if Hashmal is the only one we see. It would be like if the 00 movie killed off the ELS after the first hour, and then went back to Celestial Being doing interventions.

Orga punching McGillis, and then floating like a badass was awesome to watch.

About Bael: they said that multiple people have tried to activate it, but all failed. Was that just due to the lack of A-V? Will Agnika show himself? It would be funny if during the battle, Bael just shut down, and McG could do nothing but stare at the "Agnika deems you unworthy"-prompt on his screen.

And you get a death-flag! And YOU get a death-flag! Everybody GETS A DEATH-FLAG!!! Could we make a list of who didn't get one yet? I feel like that would be the easier list to make...

[Alf]

Originally Posted by tdx

Did you miss Kudelia going "Ehhh...?" at least twice in that scene? Atra is the one laying her delusions on thick, while Kudelia is scrambling to keep up with her ramblings, trying to dispel the misunderstandings as she goes, except Atra just won't listen. And Kudelia outright calls Mika a child a few times, including in the latest episode, how does that count as romantic or seeing him as a man...? Sorry but it looks a lot like wishful thinking and shipping goggles on instead.

It seems I've mixed up scenes....The scene that Kudelia admitting like Mika was ep37, and the no hate scene is ep39. Anyway, it's that scene in ep37 I was talking about. That one was pretty blatant. The scene in ep39 is about making babies so perhaps Kudelia's isn't so deep in love that she want baby with him? Alright, perhaps her feeling for Mika is just puppy love level, and with a lot of other emotions in the mix.

Originally Posted by tdx

That's why I'm saying you're a big optimist. We still have 6 episodes to go, yet we're already looking at what for all intents and purposes appears like the grand finale, and you're still talking about there not being enough time? Really? I remember people worrying about the same issue during season 1, about there not being enough time to wrap things up, yet s1 managed to wrap it up just fine despite having a lot less time for it than s2 currently has at its disposal. Things like Kudelia not having much to do can be easily explained by the focus of the story being Tekkadan (it was always on them, from the start, so it's nothing new) and, to a lesser degree, Gjallarhorn, and she's not exactly a member of either.

I wish there were a third season, but I prefer not to delude myself or set myself up for disappointment.

What's the problem with simply analyzing the plot? If optimist means "optimization" then that might be the case, but I'm pretty neutral on the possibility of follow on series. If there isn't one it doesn't concern me that much as there are already enough good series without a sequal even if they need it, and I've already get used to it.

I didn't join discussion in season 1, but back than didn't think there's any problem with wrapping up things for the escorting mission. Kudelia's goal and McGillis' ambition didn't wrap up anyway.

The problem with Kudelia's inactive status is that Mars independance activity needs a lot of build up so it feels like Kudelia have earned it and audiences can understand how did she reach this resolution. Even in season 1 there have been build up throughout the series before she use her connections to advance on Earth, but in this season on Mars it's been about social and economic development so far and that would be her sole power right now.

It's sure that Kudelia will be more active in the coming 6 episodes. But if she is going to complete Mars independance within such time, her only option is to have Teiwaz as her force, which is not a very good option as a support for political status, and doesn't show the power of choice by knowledge. So I don't think that's how this line would wrap up.

Same goes for Tekkadan. They have started to show sign of thinking, but with 6 episodes they would only start to make a choice by thinking. So that is not the end goal if you consider it to be necessary for Mars independance.

[ReddyRedWolf]

Originally Posted by tdx

Did you miss Kudelia going "Ehhh...?" at least twice in that scene? Atra is the one laying her delusions on thick, while Kudelia is scrambling to keep up with her ramblings, trying to dispel the misunderstandings as she goes, except Atra just won't listen. And Kudelia outright calls Mika a child a few times, including in the latest episode, how does that count as romantic or seeing him as a man...? Sorry but it looks a lot like wishful thinking and shipping goggles on instead.

You do know Kudelia keeps visiting Tekkadan and their farm is because of Mika right? They just keep missing each other. Kudelia ay be a bit older but she is still a girl.

When Mika was paralyzed the time she finally had the courage to face him Kudelia was willing to stay with him to fulfill him dream but Mika told her no she still has a role to play.

She loves Mika but she entrust him to Atra as her obligations wont let her. Especially when Tekkadan left the orphan kids in her care.

[tdx]

Originally Posted by Alf

It seems I've mixed up scenes....The scene that Kudelia admitting like Mika was ep37, and the no hate scene is ep39. Anyway, it's that scene in ep37 I was talking about. That one was pretty blatant. The scene in ep39 is about making babies so perhaps Kudelia's isn't so deep in love that she want baby with him? Alright, perhaps her feeling for Mika is just puppy love level, and with a lot of other emotions in the mix.

The way I see it, Kudelia's current feelings for Mika are family affection with a bit of a leftover hero crush. She's not blind enough not to see the price he has to pay for strength, and his willingness to pay it.

Originally Posted by Alf

The problem with Kudelia's inactive status is that Mars independance activity needs a lot of build up so it feels like Kudelia have earned it and audiences can understand how did she reach this resolution. Even in season 1 there have been build up throughout the series before she use her connections to advance on Earth, but in this season on Mars it's been about social and economic development so far and that would be her sole power right now.

It's sure that Kudelia will be more active in the coming 6 episodes. But if she is going to complete Mars independance within such time, her only option is to have Teiwaz as her force, which is not a very good option as a support for political status, and doesn't show the power of choice by knowledge. So I don't think that's how this line would wrap up.

That probably can be settled with a timeskip or two. This show loves timeskips, so I bet what we'll see in the end is Mika's child growing up, the survivors finding their place in a world where they don't have to fight, and Kudelia working hard to continue her reforms to make Mars better.

Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf

You do know Kudelia keeps visiting Tekkadan and their farm is because of Mika right? They just keep missing each other. Kudelia ay be a bit older but she is still a girl.

When Mika was paralyzed the time she finally had the courage to face him Kudelia was willing to stay with him to fulfill him dream but Mika told her no she still has a role to play.

She loves Mika but she entrust him to Atra as her obligations wont let her. Especially when Tekkadan left the orphan kids in her care.

Just because of Mika? Are you serious? Did all that family talk that's been repeated in various shapes and forms over and over since like episode 8 go in one ear and out of the other for you? Because you've just denied most of Kudelia's character development for both seasons with one sentence.

Wouldn't you be worried sick and just as scared to face a family member in Mika's condition, especially knowing that he won't stop on the path of self-destruction no matter what? Kudelia wasn't willing to stay with him to fulfill his dream, she wanted to take over the farm duties he could no longer perform. She's a girl who tries to help altruistically, it's her nature, that's why she went as far as putting her life in danger just to try and improve life of complete strangers she never met. And the statement about helping was the heat of the moment, she knew it was impossible even without Mika pointing out that much. She loves Mika, no doubt, as family, as she repeated herself a few times.

Seriously, try to put away those shipper goggles for a second, you lose so much when sticking to that selective perception. Fyi, I was a Mika x Kudelia fan at the beginning, I even wrote a manifesto which is still popular on tumblr, but after Dorts the base for that pairing... simply disappeared, that relationship transformed into something else entirely, and I can't ship what's not there anymore. Mika x Atra, in contrast, has been perfectly consistent and continues to be so.

[Irenesharda]

Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf

You do know Kudelia keeps visiting Tekkadan and their farm is because of Mika right? They just keep missing each other. Kudelia ay be a bit older but she is still a girl.

When Mika was paralyzed the time she finally had the courage to face him Kudelia was willing to stay with him to fulfill him dream but Mika told her no she still has a role to play.

She loves Mika but she entrust him to Atra as her obligations wont let her. Especially when Tekkadan left the orphan kids in her care.

It's not explicitly said or even implied that the only reason she visited the farm and Tekkadan was because of Mika. She did have business with them and helped out on the farm and with the orphanage simply because that's what she enjoyed most. It's only stated that she looked for him on the occasions that she came and missed him each time.

And even if she did come simply to see him, that doesn't not necessarily denote romantic love on her part. I can go out to see my best friend who happens to be male, every time I'm in a certain area and we constantly keep missing each other. It's doesn't mean I'm in love with him. Also, there are different kinds of love.

Kudelia loves Mika, but it is the same kind of love that she has for Atra. It's the love one has for a close brother or friend that she cares about a lot. Once perhaps she might have thought of the possibility of romantic love with Mika, but that completely redefined itself after the Dort incident and she matured. She now sees him more as a close friend.

[Skaddix]

Kudelia is not earning **** at this point. Granted this was always going to require violence, now better negotiations and planning probably could have lead to less losses. But Rustal Faction wasn't going down without a war.

Basically McGillis moved into Kudelia Position this season as the chief non Tekkadan Ally who provides a mission and a promise of payout.

[tdx]

Originally Posted by Butagami

I wonder if we'll get an Atra/Mika post-coital scene next episode, or if she'll just be shown pregnant/with a child in the epilogue or something.

Something that's kind of bugged me is that the MA was an isolated event. If one doesn't show up during the rest of the season, that would be kind of weird. I mean, so much importance was put on them, it's kind of a waste if Hashmal is the only one we see.

I expect we'll only confirm they did in the epilogue indeed.

I think it's fine the MA incident is isolated because it's just an echo from the past, where the MA problem had already been solved by Agnika & co, Hashmal was nothing more than a bit of trash they forgot to clean.

Originally Posted by Skaddix

Kudelia is not earning **** at this point. Granted this was always going to require violence, now better negotiations and planning probably could have lead to less losses. But Rustal Faction wasn't going down without a war.

Basically McGillis moved into Kudelia Position this season as the chief non Tekkadan Ally who provides a mission and a promise of payout.

Well, Kudelia will still do something, hopefully, since there was foreshadowing, but yeah, McGillis took her place this season.

[SonicSP]

Originally Posted by Butagami

Something that's kind of bugged me is that the MA was an isolated event. If one doesn't show up during the rest of the season, that would be kind of weird. I mean, so much importance was put on them, it's kind of a waste if Hashmal is the only one we see.

Personally I think the importance of Hashmal was that it showed how Gjallahorn got their legitimacy in the first place. This is in the sense sense that they won a war where they were "countless" numbers of them. They were not just winners in a political human vs human war but saved the entirety of humanity from extinction from genocidal machines and the prestige that came for it. It also syncs perfectly well with McGillis speech to Gaelio near the end of Season 1.

It also showed, possibly the lengths the some of the old Gundam pilots had to go through and what was he bravery they had to go through to earn the prestige that they did. It also re-emphasized the lengths Mika is willing to go through for Orga as his sword.

Hashmal wasn't a threat to civilization in its current state as one unit but the weight behind that unit's history is huge as well as the prestige it brought Tekkadan, however short term that's as due to later events. Being shown the true the power of the Gundam, as well as Mika's head first attitude also inspired McGillis to finally be bold and execute his Bael-jacking endeavor to go for the ultimate prize.

It also explained by automation and artificial intelligence is kind of weak in a IBO's world and why so many things had to be done by hand and why the Calamity War was as deadly as it was (without going nuclear I guess).

So while mobile armor was a one-off, it did many things in making the background lore of IBO be more interesting while also sort semi-kicking off the later events.

[TheDoctor324]

I know that because of the armor that the mobile suits and ships have makes it useless but what happened to the beam cannon that was on the MA.....they could have salvaged that for something? like a shock and "oh fuck" kind of weapon....somthing to just make them pause and go what the heck is that?

Also either i'm having memory issues but didn't they find not only the MA, the pluma and Flouros but also a white horned MS as well?....what happened to the horned suit....or am i just going stark raving mad?....?

edited:....nope i was going nuts....it was the Flouros...could have sworn that they found one more suit and that it was orega's suit....my bad y'all

[Skye629]

Originally Posted by TheDoctor324

I know that because of the armor that the mobile suits and ships have makes it useless but what happened to the beam cannon that was on the MA.....they could have salvaged that for something? like a shock and "oh fuck" kind of weapon....somthing to just make them pause and go what the heck is that?

Also either i'm having memory issues but didn't they find not only the MA, the pluma and Flouros but also a white horned MS as well?....what happened to the horned suit....or am i just going stark raving mad?....?

edited:....nope i was going nuts....it was the Flouros...could have sworn that they found one more suit and that it was orega's suit....my bad y'all

Barbatos rammed a giant F******* sword through the beam cannon mouth in case you forgot, that thing is unsalvageable lol, and even if it was, it does little against the current armor of the time



They do have a white horned MS.....Orga's customized Shiden, though it hasn't been seen since then

[Skaddix]

The Problem is the Beam Weapon is Illegal and they were trying to be legal at that point.

The Bigger Issue though is the Beam Weapon is Optimized to kill civilians not kill military targets.

[Rising Dragon]

Never mind that freaking everything uses Nanolaminate Armor to neutralize its effectiveness. In a battle between warships and mobile suits, it'd be useless.