Gundam Seed/Seed Destiny General Discussion Thread

[Gundamx]

Keybinding rule.
In other word even if it was made for Shinn he can just customize the OS to what he like.

And since he already familiar with most of Destiny weapon = it will be easy job.

Which mean it will be easy for Kira to use Destiny full power.

I want even be surprise if he use Destiny full power in it's first fight like he did with Freedom.
(It was not made for him > he just stole it with Lacus help.)

[Zulu Keita]

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

The internal fighting had a huge role in why Shinn took a huge dip as the series dragged on, especially when Kira was thrown back into the story to take the lead. It also had to do with Shinn being popular but not "as" popular as Kira who had done nothing in Destiny up that point. The SEED fanbase demanded that Kira be returned to glory and did it every chance they could, the guys in charge of Destiny eventually relented to that which only intensified the unsavory work conditions and heavily railroaded the plot to the state it ended up in. It's also why Cagalli took a dip in Destiny and only got worse as the series went on, they changed her completely to a crybaby from her old strong self which is why Cagalli's VA refuses to acknowledge Destiny or take new work involving it.

So not it wasn't just arumour because that's exactly what happened and many of the VAs voiced over what happen. It's telling that Shinn's VA praised SRW Z Shinn as the "True Shinn in his heart" while the guy in charge was furious over the changes SRW Z did to Shinn and the Destiny plot. Especialy since SRW Z Destiny/Shinn was far better received compared to the TV series plot and Shinn.

There's no denying that Shinn was greatly effected by the inclusion of Kira stealing the Main Character role from him. It's worse when you realize that the Strike Freedom, once it appeared, never lost a battle or suffered any real damage and was made into the ultimate mary sue where Kira just roflstomps supposedly competent pilots with ease(While before he was completely demolished by Shinn in Impulse vs Freedom. Even with Kira's no kill rule he was way out of his league against Angry Shinn). Or that they had Athrun easily beat Shinn and Lunamaria in the last battle while before Shinn has taken on far superior opponents and had already surpassed the somewhat retired Athrun in piloting abilities.

It was the writers fault for caving in to the fanbase and dropping Shinn instead of making him work. Which in reality it wasn't that hard at all to make Shinn or Kira work as SRW Z has shown as well as SRW L that took out all the worst parts of Shinn and Kira from Destiny and made them both likeable even when they were shareing the same spotlight.

"True Shinn in his Heart" - I mean I can understand the Voiceactor having an "opinion" but what they wrote and presented is what we need to accept, not try to make it out to be something else, so even if the voice actor feels differently, he has no part in writing the script nor story so how could he "feel" that the Shinn in that Game was the "True Shinn in his Heart" ? ... What Im trying to say is that its irrelevant what a voice actor thinks if he is not a part of creating the story and characters.

I have to disagree with you saying that they did not make Shinn work, I personally found him to be a good character and did have a lot of development, I also agree with you on the point that he could have been handled with more care once Kira and the Archangel crew stepped in.

"Strike Freedom, once it appeared, never lost a battle or suffered any real damage and was made into the ultimate mary sue where Kira just roflstomps supposedly competent pilots with ease" - The funny thing is that Ive seen people bringing this up rather often on Forum Boards about Kira, But the only reason people cant let that go is because they dislike Kira. I dont see people complaining over other pilots in Gundam series who were freakishly skilled and took out other mobile suits with ease, but for whatever reason when Kira did it, People got pissed? Contradicting?....I guess so.

"While before he was completely demolished by Shinn in Impulse vs Freedom. Even with Kira's no kill rule he was way out of his league against Angry Shinn)"
- You should know that one battle does not decide the better pilot? If so, Char,Amuro,Kamille and Setsuna would not be counted among the best pilots in Gundam Universe, but they are, So is Kira and for a good reason I might add.

But thats besides the point. Kira did lose to Shinn in Freedom, But the funny thing you left out is that, Now your talking about the "Actual happening" instead of why the writers did it. The writers did that so Kira could get a new machine, But you left that out? You made excuses for Shinn and Cagalli characters but cant give a break to Kira? When it was obviously the writers decision to make him lose his Freedom.

Also, Kira took out 2 of Impulse Silhouttes while trying to flee from battle, Athrun even asked Kira later on Archangel : "I didnt think he was going to be able to defeat you" ... When Kira replied: " I was not sure whether or not I should be fighting against ZAFT" ... There you have it. BTW if you forgot, The one time Kira got close to Shinn in his Freedom, He took out 1 silhoutte... Kira could have killed Shinn with ease, but due to him not killing, He took out Impulse Silhoutte instead.

"Or that they had Athrun easily beat Shinn and Lunamaria in the last battle while before Shinn has taken on far superior opponents and had already surpassed the somewhat retired Athrun in piloting abilities."
- The only "Superior" opponent Shinn had taken out before fighting Athrun was Kira? So in what way is Shinn better than Athrun because of that? I mean it makes no sense to me what so ever. Also, Retired Athrun? There is no ongoing War, why in the world would Athrun,Kira or any other Pilot go into their Mobile Suits and train for? For another battler? They just ended one a year ago before the next one started.

I know its a long text but why did you have to go so deep into it? I mean I was just discussing whether or not the issues with "Kira stealing the show" were true or not.

[Zulu Keita]

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

Kira wouldn't be very comfortable in it at all since the Destiny does more than just Beam Spam.

- That is ignorant, also its not true, Kira showed a lot of skill in both all of the mobile suits he has piloted, Strike, Freedom and SF.

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

Nice to see what I said about not getting into the Kira/Shinn debate went completely ignored. *sigh* Christ you people are adamant about that argument. What's the appeal for it? I'm honestly curious that it has so many people enthralled in continuing it despite the fact that pretty much every single angle and detail has been considered and debated already.

- I dont even know how things got here... As I was discussing a whole different aspect of Seed Destiny...

Originally Posted by Om Nerabdator

im pretty sure ive mentioned this before but to anyone who watched destiny did you also noticed the paper,scissor,rock thing going on

shin beats kira
kira beats athrun
athrun beats shin

whenever they fight it feels like this

Thats actually a good way to but it but that is not true.

Kira lost to Shinn once, while even in the battle where he lost to Shinn, he took out 2 of Impulse Silhouttes, Kira also got the better of Destiny in Orb when he grabbed his blade and shot him with his railguns, Shinn even said: "If those had been beams, I would already be dead.... is that what it is! Some kind of a Lesson!". Even Shinn knew Kira had him. In the Movie versions of Destiny, Kira battled Shinn and Rey in the end by himself before Shinn fled because Kira shot at him point blank out of nowhere, which made Shinn go after Athrun instead.

Kira only beat Athrun once in Destiny, and Athrun was also a bit confused by what he should do, Kira took Athrun out nonetheless.

Athrun did take out Shinn twice and was taken out in the Gouf.

Shinn took out Kira once and Athrun once, Athrun and Kira have gotten the better of Shinn more times but that does not take away from the fact that Shinn has beaten both of them as well and held his own in most battles.

They all have had their moment to shine.

Hope I didnt come off as negative .... wasnt my attention. I was just trying to clarify my personal opinion, But your right as well

[Destined_Fate]

Originally Posted by Gundamx

Keybinding rule.
In other word even if it was made for Shinn he can just customize the OS to what he like.

And since he already familiar with most of Destiny weapon = it will be easy job.

Which mean it will be easy for Kira to use Destiny full power.

I want even be surprise if he use Destiny full power in it's first fight like he did with Freedom.
(It was not made for him > he just stole it with Lacus help.)

Not true, the Destiny was made for Shinn. Literally. It wasn't just the OS, it was the entire Gundam that was made for his fighting style. Also it doesn't run like the Strike Packs, which were just one thing each, but all of them together in a very fluid manner. Something Kira never did because the Perfect Strike was scrapped and the Freedom was geared towards specialized ranged combat, which Kira has shown more skill at than in melee anyway and was reinforced by the Strike Freedom that only had minimal melee abilities, and not Jack of All Trades.

So no, Kira could never use the Destiny as well as Shinn, just like Athrun couldn't use the Destiny or Strike Freedom as well as the designated pilots. Also, the Freedom wasn't even made for anyone or based specifically on a pilots data thus built that way. While the Destiny had its design and OS built just for Shinn based off how he used the Impulse with a heavy emphasis for Melee Combat which was something Kira has moved away from since he got the Freedom and later the Strike Freedom that was made just for him.

[monster]

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

Not true, the Destiny was made for Shinn. Literally. It wasn't just the OS, it was the entire Gundam that was made for his fighting style.

Yes, the Destiny was made to accommodate Shinn's experience with the Impulse (for the most part). But how has Shinn used it that would make you think another skilled pilot couldn't perform well with it?

Also it doesn't run like the Strike Packs, which were just one thing each, but all of them together in a very fluid manner.

So? that doesn't mean only Shinn is capable of utilizing its power.

Something Kira never did because the Perfect Strike was scrapped and the Freedom was geared towards specialized ranged combat, which Kira has shown more skill at than in melee anyway and was reinforced by the Strike Freedom that only had minimal melee abilities, and not Jack of All Trades.

So no, Kira could never use the Destiny as well as Shinn, just like Athrun couldn't use the Destiny or Strike Freedom as well as the designated pilots. Also, the Freedom wasn't even made for anyone or based specifically on a pilots data thus built that way. While the Destiny had its design and OS built just for Shinn based off how he used the Impulse with a heavy emphasis for Melee Combat which was something Kira has moved away from since he got the Freedom and later the Strike Freedom that was made just for him.

Moving away from melee? Are you just choosing to ignore the many times Kira used his beam sabers? What happened to the Saviour again?

[Rising Dragon]

I shouldn't really get into this... but if I may step in for a moment?

I'm not seeing how the Freedom's melee abilities are supposed to be inferior to the Destiny's. The Arondight does not make it superior; it's a bulky, overly-long sword with a beam blade that's overall shorter than the full blade of the weapon, and its size means that its attacks are easily telegraphed and therefore easy to block, easy to avoid, and easy to counter. Remember how Kira caught the weapon and then blasted Shinn in the face with the railguns to give him a wake-up call?

If you have to compare the melee capabilities of the Freedom and the Destiny, then you'll need to look at the beam boomerangs when they're in saber mode--and at that point, the Freedom and Strike Freedom are just about even, if not in its favor due to the combination form of the weapon, which is a bit more dangerous to a mobile suit than an anti-ship sword.

Keeping this in mind, the Perfect Strike is unnecessary for gauging how well Kira would do using the Destiny Gundam. Do you recall when Shinn used the sword, the cannon, and the wings (and the hand cannons and the boomerangs and fuck-all else it was equipped with) all at once when he used it? Oh, right. He didn't. Just like Kira didn't; he only used one form at a time in the Strike. And as far as high speed+sword or high speed+cannon weapon goes, Kira's gotten plenty of experience with both using the Freedom.

Frankly, the only real way you can prevent Kira from doing well in the Destiny is if you put a damn pilot lock on the thing so that only Shinn can use it. And the only damn Gundam series that have been smart enough to do that is Gundam Unicorn, Gundam 00. And at least Gundam X and Gundam AGE were smart enough to make the Gundams unusable without the damn ignition key.

[hero147]

I think Gundam Seed did it as well. Though, it was against the naturals at Artemis rather than other coordinators, which given Kira's programming abilities, should also be possible.

[Destined_Fate]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

I shouldn't really get into this... but if I may step in for a moment?

I'm not seeing how the Freedom's melee abilities are supposed to be inferior to the Destiny's. The Arondight does not make it superior; it's a bulky, overly-long sword with a beam blade that's overall shorter than the full blade of the weapon, and its size means that its attacks are easily telegraphed and therefore easy to block, easy to avoid, and easy to counter. Remember how Kira caught the weapon and then blasted Shinn in the face with the railguns to give him a wake-up call?

If you have to compare the melee capabilities of the Freedom and the Destiny, then you'll need to look at the beam boomerangs when they're in saber mode--and at that point, the Freedom and Strike Freedom are just about even, if not in its favor due to the combination form of the weapon, which is a bit more dangerous to a mobile suit than an anti-ship sword.

Keeping this in mind, the Perfect Strike is unnecessary for gauging how well Kira would do using the Destiny Gundam. Do you recall when Shinn used the sword, the cannon, and the wings (and the hand cannons and the boomerangs and fuck-all else it was equipped with) all at once when he used it? Oh, right. He didn't. Just like Kira didn't; he only used one form at a time in the Strike. And as far as high speed+sword or high speed+cannon weapon goes, Kira's gotten plenty of experience with both using the Freedom.

Frankly, the only real way you can prevent Kira from doing well in the Destiny is if you put a damn pilot lock on the thing so that only Shinn can use it. And the only damn Gundam series that have been smart enough to do that is Gundam Unicorn, Gundam 00. And at least Gundam X and Gundam AGE were smart enough to make the Gundams unusable without the damn ignition key.

You really don't see the difference between the Destiny and Freedom in the melee department? That's kinda shocking, especially considering that the melee load out for the Freedom is just your standard beam sabers and combi time beam sabers.... That's pretty much it. Point being that the Freedom/Strike Freedom aren't meant for melee which the show and games(Especially the games) make a point where it has nearly zero melee abilities compared to the Infinite Justice and Destiny Gundam and is usually seen attacking from a range with its beam saber shennanigians as a last resort or a way to push opponents back. You also forget Shinn's combo, where he literally uses everything the Detsiny has, as well as his own personal Shining Finger ability.

Uhhh.. Yes Shinn has used all of them more than once and has switched between them more than once in the middle of battles. Multiple times in fact. He used the switching option of the Impulse during fights far more often than Kira switched between packs in the Strike.

Not at all. In the Freedom Kira actively stayed back to use it to its best of abilities, a range specialization mecha. The Freedom isn't a melee mecha and has gotten beat more then once, ex: Athrun in SEED(Speaking of which, Athrun always seemed to kick Kira's butt when Kira tried to melee him in the Strike as well. Kira just doesn't have the melee touch that Athrun and Shinn have.), because it got out of its safe zone and tried to bring a gun savvy mecha into a close range brawl.

So frankly no matter what Kira will never use the Destiny as well as Shinn just like Shinn can't use the Infinite Justice to Athrun's level and Athrun wouldn't be able to use the Strike Freedom at Kira's level. That's just the way things are, Kira was made to be the ranged man, Athrun the all out melee, and Shinn the Jack of All Trades with their Gundams reflecting that.

There's a reason why after the Freedom was gone that Kira's upgrade was just Freedom 2.0 with more beams attached to it and not a true successor to the Strike.

[Rising Dragon]

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

You really don't see the difference between the Destiny and Freedom in the melee department? That's kinda shocking, especially considering that the melee load out for the Freedom is just your standard beam sabers and combi time beam sabers.... That's pretty much it. Point being that the Freedom/Strike Freedom aren't meant for melee which the show and games(Especially the games) make a point where it has nearly zero melee abilities compared to the Infinite Justice and Destiny Gundam and is usually seen attacking from a range with its beam saber shennanigians as a last resort or a way to push opponents back. You also forget Shinn's combo, where he literally uses everything the Detsiny has, as well as his own personal Shining Finger ability.

Not meant for melee combat =/= not good at melee combat. We've seen that the Freedom and the Strike Freedom are more than capable of melee combat. The Freedom has butchered plenty of mobile suits in melee combat using just a couple of sabers, including another Gundam. In fact, the vast majority of melee-designed mobile suits THROUGHOUT THE FRANCHISE don't have, or need, fifteen differently-mounted beam sabers like the Justice. Oh, and fun fact: The original Justice was just as capable at melee combat, and was considered designed for melee combat. What was its melee weaponry? Two sabers...

As for the Shining Finger, any lunatic can get up real close and fire a weapon at point blank range. Kira's done that too. As far as the Shining Finger goes, it's a lousily-placed gun because you're just as liable to get it destroyed when a beam saber would've sufficed.

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

Uhhh.. Yes Shinn has used all of them more than once and has switched between them more than once in the middle of battles. Multiple times in fact. He used the switching option of the Impulse during fights far more often than Kira switched between packs in the Strike.

Missed my point completely. He wasn't using it all AT ONCE. He wasn't slashing enemies with the Arondight while blasting other enemies at the same time with a cannon while flying balls-to-the-wall. That was never depicted because it's ill-advised, likely impossible, and incredibly stupid to do. He often switched between using the cannon or using the sword when going at high speeds--which is the same damn thing Kira's done countless times using the Freedom.

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

Not at all. In the Freedom Kira actively stayed back to use it to its best of abilities, a range specialization mecha. The Freedom isn't a melee mecha and has gotten beat more then once, ex: Athrun in SEED(Speaking of which, Athrun always seemed to kick Kira's butt when Kira tried to melee him in the Strike as well. Kira just doesn't have the melee touch that Athrun and Shinn have.), because it got out of its safe zone and tried to bring a gun savvy mecha into a close range brawl.

Again. Not meant for melee combat =/= not good at melee combat. The Freedom was shown in melee combat as often as it was in ranged combat, it just had a higher ratio of guns to swords and wasn't as flashy with the swords. Didn't change the fact Kira used melee combat as often as he did ranged combat.

Also, fun fact: every single time the Strike and the Aegis went up against one another, BOTH pilots avoided making killing blows with the sabers because they didn't want to kill each other. They otherwise performed on par with one another.

Another fun fact: the one time the Strike and the Aegis went all out against one another with the intent to kill one another, the Strike and the Aegis did equal damage to one another using their sabers. What's especially notable here is that while Athrun needed four sabers to do that much damage to the Strike, the Strike only needed one saber to do that same level of damage to the Aegis.

The next time Kira and Athrun seriously fought one another in the course of the series, it was the Freedom vs. the Savior. And guess what? Melee-master Athrun Zala got his ass handed to him by Kira and the Freedom using beam sabers, completely butchering the Savior in the process.

Still think the Freedom is bad at melee combat? If you do, then you're actively blocking out the evidence presented to you and this debate is over.

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

So frankly no matter what Kira will never use the Destiny as well as Shinn just like Shin can't use the Infinite Justice to Athrun's level and Athrun wouldn't be able to use the Strike Freedom at Kira's level. That's just the way things are, Kira was made to be the ranged man, Athrun the all out melee, and Shinn the Jack of All Trades with their Gundams reflecting that.

As have been presented to you--and as you have ignored repeatedly--Kira has been shown to have done the Jack of All Trades gundam pilot role long before Shinn had, and did so just as effectively as Shinn had. Bias towards one will not change that.

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

There's a reason why after the Freedom was gone that Kira's upgrade was just Freedom 2.0 with more beams on it.

Yeah. It's because Kira didn't need three more beam sabers to obliterate an enemy with in melee combat like the Infinite Justice did.

[Yesman]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

Remember how Kira caught the weapon and then blasted Shinn in the face with the railguns to give him a wake-up call?

Isn't that one of those "Kira went SEED mode while Shinn didn't" Scenarios?

if not in its favor due to the combination form of the weapon,

Kira only used that once, so it's not really a favorable advantage.

And as far as high speed+sword or high speed+cannon weapon goes, Kira's gotten plenty of experience with both using the Freedom.

What?
And Kira's not moving when he's beam spamming, but he can do it upside down, though.
And Kira never used the plasma cannons singularly in Destiny. Although, he did fire the railguns on an unsuspecting Auel, but Kira wasn't really moving.

And the only damn Gundam series that have been smart enough to do that is Gundam Unicorn, Gundam 00. And at least Gundam X and Gundam AGE were smart enough to make the Gundams unusable without the damn ignition key.

I think that's called a biometric lock. Not sure, though.

[Rising Dragon]

Originally Posted by Yesman

Isn't that one of those "Kira went SEED mode while Shinn didn't" Scenarios?

Matters not. Did the same tactic against the Forbidden; got in its face and shot it with railguns. No SEED mode then.

Originally Posted by Yesman

Kira only used that once, so it's not really a favorable advantage.

Still managed to fuck up the Providence a bit with it, so while no, he doesn't do it often, it was still effective when it needed to count.

Originally Posted by Yesman

What?
And Kira's not moving when he's beam spamming, but he can do it upside down, though.

There've been a few instances where he was flying while firing, including the first full-burst scenario and the aforementioned shooting upside down in its first fight in Destiny.

[Yesman]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

Matters not. Did the same tactic against the Forbidden; got in its face and shot it with railguns. No SEED mode then.

Good point, but Kira and Athrun double-teamed Shani and did a combination for that. I'm pretty sure Kira couldn't have that alone.

Still managed to fuck up the Providence a bit with it, so while no, he doesn't do it often, it was still effective when it needed to count.

Still doesn't explain why he didn't use it against Destiny. Instead, he dual-wielded while Shinn was swinging around an AVS, which is impressive for Shinn's case.

There've been a few instances where he was flying while firing, including the first full-burst scenario and the aforementioned shooting upside down in its first fight in Destiny.

I don't remember the bolded, but he wasn't really moving when he beam spammed upside down. Although, I do remember Freedom firing the plasma cannons while moving against Orga during their little space skirmish.

[Rising Dragon]

With the Freedom's speed its easy enough to get up into an enemy's face; he does that all the time. He just usually cuts an arm or a face off with a saber instead.

No, it doesn't, but the combined-saber wasn't really Kira's thing and he only really used it because he had the one arm left. Dual-wielding would've been more effective in the long-run, but the lance formation does have its advantages, I suppose.

I distinctly remember at least one instance of the Freedom rapid-firing its cannons while moving forward...

[Yesman]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

I distinctly remember at least one instance of the Freedom rapid-firing its cannons while moving forward...

Well, I think I remember the Justice METEOR Beamspamming while moving, but Athrun was using the METEOR equipment, which is big w/ big thrusters.

[Destined_Fate]

Sigh... You aren't getting it at all. Kira is a ranged fighter, that was the role they pushed him at with melee being his weak point which SEED and SEED Destiny have shown many times, espeially in comparison to Athrun and Shinn when the're meleeing it up, that his melee skills are pathetic compared to his hax ranged fighting ability. Notice how when Kira loses a battle it almost is always because he is forced into a melee fight while Kira has almost never lost a fight at a distance which was his expertise. The Strike Freedom is Kira at his best, he would utterly fail compared to Shinn if he was thrown in the Destiny or fail even harder on Melee Master Infinite Justice compared to Athrun in it.

Drop the bias card, I'm being anythig but. The only bias ones here are those saying Kira is a god that can pilot any of the Gundams better than the designated pilots, even when said Gundams were specificly made for said Pilots, which has been proven to be false many times in both series because they utilize fighting styles that Kira has shown to be lacking at compared to what he is actually good at.

Which is again why when Kira got the Strike Freedom it was just Freedom with more beam spam.

Don't bring up the Saviour. It was weaker than the Aegis, Freedom, and Impulse. It was a hand me down Gundam that was destroyed to give Kira a grand entrance when he decided to butt into affiars that he knew nothing about. They didn't even bother to fix it up, it was that bad.

[Gundamx]

You do know that game dose not count, right?
After all, Kira can change his strike pack as much as he want inside SRW games.

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

Not true, the Destiny was made for Shinn. Literally. It wasn't just the OS, it was the entire Gundam that was made for his fighting style. Also it doesn't run like the Strike Packs, which were just one thing each, but all of them together in a very fluid manner. Something Kira never did because the Perfect Strike was scrapped and the Freedom was geared towards specialized ranged combat, which Kira has shown more skill at than in melee anyway and was reinforced by the Strike Freedom that only had minimal melee abilities, and not Jack of All Trades.

So no, Kira could never use the Destiny as well as Shinn, just like Athrun couldn't use the Destiny or Strike Freedom as well as the designated pilots. Also, the Freedom wasn't even made for anyone or based specifically on a pilots data thus built that way. While the Destiny had its design and OS built just for Shinn based off how he used the Impulse with a heavy emphasis for Melee Combat which was something Kira has moved away from since he got the Freedom and later the Strike Freedom that was made just for him.

1- It was made for Shin > so?
Did they lock the OS? If not than Kira can change it to whatever he like.
And as people said Shin never use Destiny all power at same time(no game is not cannon)
So Kira just have to make OS that build on Strike OS
( He just need new Keybinding for hand weapon)


2- Freedom was made for range mobie suit ( kira was using jack of all trade mobile suit)

3- SF = mass product Freedom = not made for kira
(mass product =/= customize gundam)

4- When I start to think about it, Kira never have customize gundam, he always take them on the spot( Strike > Freedom > SF )
And he didn't train to use any of them.
He use Freedom Full burst in first fight and and SF DRAGONs in first fight too even though he never train to use them or even read OS manual...
(He just take them > customize the OS > head to battle.)

5- True, Freedom and SF was not meant for melee but that just proof that Kira is op at melee or how he able to use range gundam to defeat other mobile suit in melee range?

Edit: how Kira weak in melee while most his ace kill on strike was with dagger?
-Yazen have scar because of strike dagger.
- Kira defeat Andrew Waltfed with dagger.
- same thing with sea commander.

* Kira killed Nicole with Sword

And I think Kira is better at melee > first thing he did with range mobile suit was using it's melee weapon (Freedom)

[monster]

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

Don't bring up the Saviour. It was weaker than the Aegis

Oh boy, I'm just speechless.

[Destined_Fate]

It isn't just SRW, it's every game that features GSD with Kira being the ranged mook, Athrun the melee mook, and for some reason Destiny and Shinn being broken as heck because its hard to balance a Gundam that can literally do everything well on top of the Destinys crazy defensive abilities. Not to mention that Athrun and Shinn in the SRW games have always have a much higher melee stat than Kira anyway who has both beat handily in the Ranged department but that's beside the point.

1) The Destiny OS and the Gundam itself was made for Shinn and his fighting style. That's a fact and Durandal even tells him as much. Which is why Destiny was his and not Athrun's or Rey's.

2) Doesn't change that Kira has grown more and more prone to not get into melee brawls even before he got the Freedom. Even than whenever he lost a battle it was because he was drawn into a melee brawl which was not something he was good at compared to Athrun or Shinn.

3) The Strike Freedom wasn't made for Mass Production by SEED Destiny. That idea was scrapped after it had left the planning stages and developoment stalled since it was supposed to be finished alongside the Freedom, or at least in the same war. The end result that would become the Strike Freedom ended up being far more advanced and expensive compared to their original goal of mass production which, as I said, was scrapped with the DRAGOON system being the main reason for it. Kira even helped develop the Strike Freedom after the unfinished Gundam was brought back into the spotlight.

Not to mention that the thing costs more than the Infinite Justice(Considering the Strike Freedom was worked on for years than scrapped than picked up again while utilizing new tech that completely replaced much of the original design making it the most expensive Gundam in the CE) to make and goes through ammo like a baws(Which says something since Kira is a Super Coordinator and still relies on burning through ammo). Than there's the part that it uses a DRAGOON system which is not something that's easily used by pilots targeted for MP suits even when it was toned down so Kira and Rey could use it. Most coordinators wouldn't even be able to use Kira's signature abilities in that thing. Since, you know, it was made for Kira anyway to take advantage of his pros and ignoring his cons.

The Original Strike Freedom is just like Perfect Strike, it was planned for use and later mass use(They had planned to utilize the Perfect Strike pack on the Strike and Strike Rouge initially) but for various reasons it was scrapped. The Strike Freedom of SEED Destiny isn't the same thing as the scrapped Strike Freedom, it was personally updated and overhauled for Kira's use under his own supervision. It was his Gundam the moment he got his hands on the original scrapped version and tailored it to his fighting style. Think of it like Kamille from Zeta where he made Zeta, well Kira made Strike Freedom into what it was by SEED Destiny which just isn't viable for mass production anymore. Considering that it was scrapped it was never mass production viable anyway and that was before Kira got his hands on it.

4) Strike Freedom is his Gundam(He even supervised the completion and cration of what would become the Strike Freedom that appears in Destiny), it was made for him and was based off all the data that was gathered when Kira was in the Freedom and Strike.

5) Kira isn't OP at Melee, Athrun and Shinn has proven they're far better at melee than he is more than once. Especially Athrun whos Infinite Justice was tailored for his superior melee ability.

That doesn't change that he battled them outside melee for the most part. Getting a moneyshot hit at the last moment doesn't make him a melee god. Now if he only used daggers and beat the crap out of everyone than he would be on par with Athrun, who only used his ranged abilities to get in for the melee showdowns and kills, and Shinn in the melee department but more often than not Kira resorted to ranged combat because that was what he was best at.

[monster]

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

Even than whenever he lost a battle it was because he was drawn into a melee brawl

You can say the same thing about Athrun and Shinn.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

Still think the Freedom is bad at melee combat? If you do, then you're actively blocking out the evidence presented to you and this debate is over.

The funny thing is, it's exactly what he's been doing the last couple of pages .

Originally Posted by monster

Oh boy, I'm just speechless.

Save your energy, monster. Let him post baseless claims as many as he wants while we can laugh at them .