Seikoku no Ryuu Kishi [Light Novel]

[Amanomurakumo]

Originally Posted by Robotech Master

There are like 10 girls with very serious feelings for him, it gets pretty ridiculous that way. Consequently its hard to imagine a non-harem end of some kind.

Not to mention among them are at least three human Princesses (maybe 4),
and exceptional Arch Dragonars of various backgrounds.

He could easily create a new world power with all of them backing him, not to mention Echo's Dragon form dwarfs even the largest of Maestro's, making them look like small birds by comparison.

[Armando99]

I am curious about the empire who used Julios to almost destroy his family's kingdom. What type of power do they have considering they don't have dragons (or do they?). We know very little about them other than that they appear to use some kind of technology mixed with some magic. Weren't they the main enemy of the dragon kingdom in the previous war?

[Amanomurakumo]

Originally Posted by armando99

i am curious about the empire who used julios to almost destroy his family's kingdom. What type of power do they have considering they don't have dragons (or do they?). We know very little about them other than that they appear to use some kind of technology mixed with some magic. Weren't they the main enemy of the dragon kingdom in the previous war?

Science!!!!!!

[Mirable]

Originally Posted by Armando99

I am curious about the empire who used Julios to almost destroy his family's kingdom. What type of power do they have considering they don't have dragons (or do they?). We know very little about them other than that they appear to use some kind of technology mixed with some magic. Weren't they the main enemy of the dragon kingdom in the previous war?

Just like Amuanomurakumo said they have power of science XD
so they can create something like gun, machine war, airship ,dragon-robot etc.

[Armando99]

Originally Posted by Mirable

Just like Amuanomurakumo said they have power of science XD
so they can create something like gun, machine war, airship ,dragon-robot etc.

With that kind of arsenal, shouldn't they rule everything then? Guns should trump magic or even dragons. They bleed after all.

[XFire]

Originally Posted by Armando99

With that kind of arsenal, shouldn't they rule everything then? Guns should trump magic or even dragons. They bleed after all.

Dragons have access to magic on the level of nuclear weapons, magic shields to fend off said magic, and can grant Arcs, which laugh off normal attacks and have weapons that can tear down fortress walls like cardboard.

Guns ain't got nothing 'ere, son.

[Armando99]

Originally Posted by XFire

Dragons have access to magic on the level of nuclear weapons, magic shields to fend off said magic, and can grant Arcs, which laugh off normal attacks and have weapons that can tear down fortress walls like cardboard.

Guns ain't got nothing 'ere, son.

Since they have science and technology, then they should also have nukes and other advance weapon systems like germ/chemical. You can shield all you want, the germ/chemical kills all of them anyway while the nukes, well if your magic shields you from a nuke, you're god or god class.

[XFire]

Originally Posted by Armando99

Since they have science and technology, then they should also have nukes and other advance weapon systems like germ/chemical. You can shield all you want, the germ/chemical kills all of them anyway while the nukes, well if your magic shields you from a nuke, you're god or god class.

Uh, no?

A simple cure/antidote spell renders poison and chemicals useless, nukes can be shot down before they are launched and blocked easily if they go off, and the only thing that determines power levels in a series is the characters themselves.

Seriously, it isn't that difficult for a fictional universe with a magic system in place to overpower the real world.

[Armando99]

Originally Posted by XFire

Uh, no?

A simple cure/antidote spell renders poison and chemicals useless, nukes can be shot down before they are launched and blocked easily if they go off, and the only thing that determines power levels in a series is the characters themselves.

Seriously, it isn't that difficult for a fictional universe with a magic system in place to overpower the real world.

The reverse can be true as well. I seem to remember a manga (Gate..)that has the Japanese modern military going into a gate to a magical world and are kicking ass. Magic can't seem to stop the modern weaponry, and yes even the guns.

[XFire]

Originally Posted by Armando99

The reverse can be true as well. I seem to remember a manga (Gate..)that has the Japanese modern military going into a gate to a magical world and are kicking ass. Magic can't seem to stop the modern weaponry, and yes even the guns.

Magic in Gate is extremely weak compared to most verse's. The majority of combatants know nothing of magic and it isn't a normal part of their military.

Also, recent events had them go up against a dragon. It was able to outmaneuver and outfly fighter jets, and took several RPG hits, the closest thing that world has to an Archmage, and a Demigod to put it down. That dragon wouldn't last a second against one of Seikoku's mook dragons, much less a named character's dragon.

There is also the fact that the characters in Seikoku have a....loose definition of human. One of the characters, Veronica, runs directly at a minigun and blocks all the bullets with her sword before slicing it and everyone using it into pieces. Simply put, realistically portrayed guns against shonen characters with magic swords and Charles Atlas superpowers is like a slingshot versus a steel wall.

In our world, humans have roughly equal power. Or at least it stays within the realm of equality, since there aren't people ten times the strength of the average person or ten times the speed. Which is why guns, which don't rely on a humans power to deal damage, are so effective. But fiction doesn't work like that.

Have you read The Gamer? Because of his abilities, he reaches the point where bullets from machine guns just bounce off him. That's pretty much what happens when you put magic/ki/mana/prana/whatever in a story. If characters can move thousands of times the speed of sound, guns are suddenly much less useful than swords. If they can take a nuke to the chin without flinching, a fist from someone with a similar body would be far more effective than a rocket launcher.

[Armando99]

Originally Posted by XFire

Magic in Gate is extremely weak compared to most verse's. The majority of combatants know nothing of magic and it isn't a normal part of their military.

Also, recent events had them go up against a dragon. It was able to outmaneuver and outfly fighter jets, and took several RPG hits, the closest thing that world has to an Archmage, and a Demigod to put it down. That dragon wouldn't last a second against one of Seikoku's mook dragons, much less a named character's dragon.

There is also the fact that the characters in Seikoku have a....loose definition of human. One of the characters, Veronica, runs directly at a minigun and blocks all the bullets with her sword before slicing it and everyone using it into pieces. Simply put, realistically portrayed guns against shonen characters with magic swords and Charles Atlas superpowers is like a slingshot versus a steel wall.

In our world, humans have roughly equal power. Or at least it stays within the realm of equality, since there aren't people ten times the strength of the average person or ten times the speed. Which is why guns, which don't rely on a humans power to deal damage, are so effective. But fiction doesn't work like that.

Have you read The Gamer? Because of his abilities, he reaches the point where bullets from machine guns just bounce off him. That's pretty much what happens when you put magic/ki/mana/prana/whatever in a story. If characters can move thousands of times the speed of sound, guns are suddenly much less useful than swords. If they can take a nuke to the chin without flinching, a fist from someone with a similar body would be far more effective than a rocket launcher.

I pretty much stay away when the power up gets to the point of improbability even with magic as the setting. Like I always said, magic is not all and what is the point when the mc can pretty much just stomp the antagonists without hardly any effort. That's when the story becomes infantile and not worth reading anymore. IMO

There are fictions and there are fictions. Lots of novels would have been an even greater read had they not been so "unreasonable", for a lack of a better description. IMO

[XFire]

Originally Posted by Armando99

I pretty much stay away when the power up gets to the point of improbability even with magic as the setting. Like I always said, magic is not all and what is the point when the mc can pretty much just stomp the antagonists without hardly any effort. That's when the story becomes infantile and not worth reading anymore. IMO

There are fictions and there are fictions. Lots of novels would have been an even greater read had they not been so "unreasonable", for a lack of a better description. IMO

You're assuming the antagonists don't have access to equal or greater power. The ability to move thousands of times the speed of sound isn't much good when the bad guy can stop time and MUDAMUDAMUDAMUDAMUDAMUDA you into death.

Also, Gate was a really bad example if your problem is the good guys stomping the bad guys. Seriously, the "fight" at the beginning was so one-sided both sides called it a massacre. Not even Tatsuya was that bad (seriously, he killed less people with nuclear magic than they did with bullets).

The reason I prefer it is because it brings a more human element to the struggle. If the fight is over the moment one person tags the other with a bullet, there isn't much tension for me. if the characters are too durable to go down in one hit, and just tear each other apart in a battle of wills as much as strength, now that gets shivers running down my spine.

[Armando99]

Originally Posted by XFire

You're assuming the antagonists don't have access to equal or greater power. The ability to move thousands of times the speed of sound isn't much good when the bad guy can stop time and MUDAMUDAMUDAMUDAMUDAMUDA you into death.

Also, Gate was a really bad example if your problem is the good guys stomping the bad guys. Seriously, the "fight" at the beginning was so one-sided both sides called it a massacre. Not even Tatsuya was that bad (seriously, he killed less people with nuclear magic than they did with bullets).

The reason I prefer it is because it brings a more human element to the struggle. If the fight is over the moment one person tags the other with a bullet, there isn't much tension for me. if the characters are too durable to go down in one hit, and just tear each other apart in a battle of wills as much as strength, now that gets shivers running down my spine.

I prefer to believe that the "struggle" as you call it, brings out the true human element in the story. IMO, in any story.

It is that shiver running down my spine that keeps me glued to a story I'm reading or a show I'm watching (except horror, I don't do those).

BTW, Gate was the only example I could think of. You are right, it is probably not a good example.

[XFire]

Originally Posted by Armando99

I prefer to believe that the "struggle" as you call it, brings out the true human element in the story. IMO, in any story.

It is that shiver running down my spine that keeps me glued to a story I'm reading or a show I'm watching (except horror, I don't do those).

BTW, Gate was the only example I could think of. You are right, it is probably not a good example.

......................hmmm.

We appear to have missed each other here, because I was saying that I only see that "struggle" in the stories where the characters can fight each other to the death through their own abilities as opposed to using instant kill weapons.

Are you agreeing with me?

As for other examples of magic versus guns (where one doesn't completely eclipse the other) try Gun Ota.

The guns are realistically portrayed versus magic creatures. Any unarmored humanoid versus a gun user is dead even with a number advantage, and giving a .50 cal sniper rifle to someone who can see for miles in the dark means the bad guys heads have the consistency of rotten tomatoes.

However, a giant armored dragon pretty much ignores those things and high level magic users (which are rare) can block bullets with shields.

[Armando99]

Originally Posted by XFire

......................hmmm.

We appear to have missed each other here, because I was saying that I only see that "struggle" in the stories where the characters can fight each other to the death through their own abilities as opposed to using instant kill weapons.

Are you agreeing with me?

As for other examples of magic versus guns (where one doesn't completely eclipse the other) try Gun Ota.

The guns are realistically portrayed versus magic creatures. Any unarmored humanoid versus a gun user is dead even with a number advantage, and giving a .50 cal sniper rifle to someone who can see for miles in the dark means the bad guys heads have the consistency of rotten tomatoes.

However, a giant armored dragon pretty much ignores those things and high level magic users (which are rare) can block bullets with shields.

Yeah, I was agreeing with you. Just got verbose for a moment.

I will look into that, thanks. Sometimes don't know what other things to read except trial and error which is fine but it is also fine if someone recommends it to you. I appreciate it.

[XFire]

Originally Posted by Armando99

Yeah, I was agreeing with you. Just got verbose for a moment.

I will look into that, thanks. Sometimes don't know what other things to read except trial and error which is fine but it is also fine if someone recommends it to you. I appreciate it.

Alright then. Anyway, that was the only one I could think of that pits modern firearms against fantasy without a completely one-sided advantage to one or the other. Most fictions either add in something that makes them useless (hello there, Magika) or vice versa (looking at you, Gate).

Kind of disappointing, really.

[Armando99]

Originally Posted by XFire

Alright then. Anyway, that was the only one I could think of that pits modern firearms against fantasy without a completely one-sided advantage to one or the other. Most fictions either add in something that makes them useless (hello there, Magika) or vice versa (looking at you, Gate).

Kind of disappointing, really.

Agree with you about Gate. I stop reading it halfway.

I am still giving Magika some time. There is not enough translated materials yet for me to decide one way or another. It does have a different setting character wise.

[dracorax]

I hope somebody will pick up the translations.

[Mirable]

It's time for final arc. [星を継ぐ者]

[yuiichi9]

Did the art changed?