[Game] Umineko - Spoilers, Theories, Interpretations

[Dr. Casey]

Question. I remember reading once that the Umineko manga features a flashback of Genji and Kinzo from their youth. I'm not sure just how long ago the scene takes place, but I think it predates the World War II stretch of episode 7. What chapter was it that featured this? I want all the important Kinzo character building I can get (and Genji's kind of interesting too, I guess).

[jjblue1]

Originally Posted by Dr. Casey

Question. I remember reading once that the Umineko manga features a flashback of Genji and Kinzo from their youth. I'm not sure just how long ago the scene takes place, but I think it predates the World War II stretch of episode 7. What chapter was it that featured this? I want all the important Kinzo character building I can get (and Genji's kind of interesting too, I guess).

It's in Ep 8 chap 8. It shows how Kinzo and Genji met when they were children and grew up together until Kinzo was taken away to become the new Ushiromiya head. Then it skips to the time after the war had ended in which Kinzo went back to Taiwan to pick Genji up.

Originally Posted by Captain Bluebeard

You..... should.... not have said that!!!!!!!

Actually, Bernkastel's hair color isn't really that outrageous because she's a meta 100% fictional character. I say, for an "anime", Umineko's hair choices seem to be surprisingly realistic.

Honestly I've no problems with Bern's hair colour. It's when she states Erika too has blue hair that I'm sort of... uhm... really?

On a side note blue is my fave colour so if they had to have hair of an odd colour I prefer them to be blue but still... it's not very natural...

[Captain Bluebeard]

Originally Posted by jjblue1

Honestly I've no problems with Bern's hair colour. It's when she states Erika too has blue hair that I'm sort of... uhm... really?

That is because having blue hair is a special privilege that is only alloted to special people who like to tell orphans Santa doesn't exist and get a kick out of making people suffer for no apparent reason, and oh! They can also pull awesome troll faces!

On a side note blue is my fave colour so if they had to have hair of an odd colour I prefer them to be blue but still... it's not very natural...

Well, most anime (and related media) usually have many wierd hair colors a lot wierder than that. Umineko is actually pretty rational. I say, having a human character have this wierd hair color when other characters don't they kinda stick out but maybe Erika was meant to (plus it sort of works as a Bern refferences and really made an impression before EP5 was released).

I personally like Erika having blue hair because..... RYUKISHI HAS MADE THAT COLOR AN EPIC!!!!

[jjblue1]

Originally Posted by Captain Bluebeard

That is because having blue hair is a special privilege that is only alloted to special people who like to tell orphans Santa doesn't exist and get a kick out of making people suffer for no apparent reason, and oh! They can also pull awesome troll faces!

LOL You might be up on something here... many characters with blue hair aren't exactly sweet...

Originally Posted by Captain Bluebeard

Well, most anime (and related media) usually have many wierd hair colors a lot wierder than that. Umineko is actually pretty rational. I say, having a human character have this wierd hair color when other characters don't they kinda stick out but maybe Erika was meant to (plus it sort of works as a Bern refferences and really made an impression before EP5 was released).

I personally like Erika having blue hair because..... RYUKISHI HAS MADE THAT COLOR AN EPIC!!!!

Yes, but the inconsistency in hair colour becomes troublesome when discussing about Yasu. Not only Shannon and Kanon's hair colour seem to be different but Yasu is depicted as having blonde hair... which not only would be genetically difficult but would clash with Shannon and Kanon's hair colour and ends up making us wonder if a blonde long haired Yasu started wearing a short haired wig to impersonate Shannon and then, over that short haired wig she had to wear another blond haired wig in front of Kinzo to impersonate Beatrice... which start to become really ridicolous...

Ence my theory of not paying to much attention to hair colours as they're probably not meant to be taken seriously.

[Kealym]

Yes, I thought it's been consensus since forever that all the human characters are typical looking, black haired Japanese.

Except for Kuwadoritrice who was probably (I'm assuming, here) noticeably biracial and ended up blonde in a genetic fluke.

I really think Erika's hair was probably black in a real world sense, but since she has a Meta presence they can comment on her actual sprite ; heck, towards the end of EP6 she cracks a joke about her own trollface, so... hey.

[jjblue1]

I've been using google translate on this page as it gives some more info about Ep 8 manga version.
It seems that Shannon also suffered of polydactyly like Kinzo but was operated (remember? one of the pics that leached showed that her feet had a scar). When she clumsily spilled something on herself she removed her shoes and Kinzo caught sign of her scar and figured out what it could mean.

That's why Kinzo was nicer with her (or him? I couldn't get if she was dressed up as Kanon or not) and let her shoot with the guns he never allowed anyone else to touch.

It also says she began to dress up as a male servant because disgusted by her body in the belief by being a male she could be happier and the servants covered up for her... which would mean Kanon was around prior to Kinzo's death.

But well, that's all I can get as Google translate did a rather terrible translation.

Well, even if the whole 'geez, you've a scar on your feet, you must have had polydactyly' is a bit forced it explains Kinzo's behaviour better... and since there was no hint the baby could have had it and Kinzo could have discovered Shannon/Kanon had it as well, it was hard to guess why Kinzo started being nice with her/him all of sudden.

Still, it's sad as Kinzo basically never recognized Shannon/Kanon for his child due to how they were but merely because they had a scar.

Probably when he placed the epitaph he had few time to live and wanted to force Genji to admit they were Lion... which is more logical than thinking he did it without having an idea if Lion was alive and around. This however is worth some thoughts. If Kinzo already had suspicions and Genji didn't know why shouldn't have Genji revealed the truth without that escamoutage? Wasn't he waiting for Kinzo to recognize Shannon/Kanon as his child to tell him the truth?

[GoldenLand]

It does make a lot of sense as a way of Kinzo identifying Lion. Another person on the island with polydactyly, of about the same age as Lion, brough there by Genji at an abnormally young age...Hell, poor Yasu is 75% Kinzo, right? It is a bit of cheap move, in that there were never hints of this in the VN despite there being an emphasis on what the polydactyly meant for Kinzo himself. But it does make sense. As does the possibility that the epitaph was placed there with the sole purpose of wringing Lion's secret out of Genj.

It doesn't totally rule out the possibility of Yasu just being some kid whom Genji brought to replace the dead Lion. If there had happened to be a kid with polydactyly at the orphanage, it would be possible. But it does make it a little less likely, and that's aside from the way that it being a random kid would thwart Genji's aim of non-molesting parent-child bonds being awakened just from having Yasu there on the island.

I wonder if Genji found out that the reason wasn't that sort of parent-child bond but just the discovery of the scar? I expect he would have been disappointed if he had. His ideas there surrounding the possibility of a wholesome parent child relationship springing into existence sounded romantic in the extreme.

Things could have been handled in a really different way had Kinzo talked to Yasu and ignored the epitaph, and most importantly skipped the whole tearful forgiveness scene with Yasu in her mother's dress. Genji has the worst taste in the entire world. Getting Yasu to dress that way, and having her wander past a whole lot of skeletons later on? Well, maybe the dress was Kinzo's idea. I'm really curious now. Did Genji get Yasu dress up and spring the epitaph thing on Kinzo all at once, or did he tell Kinzo first and follow Kinzo's directions for the meeting? I really have to wonder what was wrong with Kinzo that he didn't go for the sitting down and talking to Genji and Yasu option from the start. (Okay, okay, Ushiromiya Kinzo is not known for his good sense.) Maybe on some level he thought it was too good to be true.

I'm rather pleased to hear that Kanon really was acted out for some time. I like Kanon a lot, and it seemed unfair that a major character like him could just be an imaginary friend who wasn't even a properly acted role. It's not surprising that Yasu's motivation would be to try to see if being male would be a better option, or that the servants would feel compelled to help with that. But if this was before Kinzo's death, wouldn't that be before Yasu found out about the body's original condition? Though she must have already felt uncomfortable for a long time about her lack of normal female development. It must have been quite brave to decide to dress as a male servant with the co-operation of the others even before obtaining the truth and the headship.

Originally Posted by jjblue1

If Kinzo already had suspicions and Genji didn't know why shouldn't have Genji revealed the truth without that escamoutage? Wasn't he waiting for Kinzo to recognize Shannon/Kanon as his child to tell him the truth?

That is tricky. Maybe Kinzo wasn't straightforward about his suspicions, and badly feared the possibility of them not being correct? I doubt he resented Genji's actions. Kinzo might have wanted to prove Lion's identity through magic, thus relying on the epitaph as final confirmation. And Genji might have played along with that. Or, possibly Genji just didn't know that Kinzo already had suspicions, or he might have feared that if he told Kinzo too early, Kinzo would harm Yasu.

[Ithekro]

Could Kinzo have dementia at that age in his life?

[haguruma]

Just a short post before I read on and post more later...
If this IS information from the manga and not made up or anything, then we have our answer on Ikuko:

May my wish come true, that this bottle mail
may never fall in the hands of anyone.

If, by any chance, you should read this,
then by any means, deal me my just punishment.

One day the author Hachijo Ikuko picked up a curious item by the roadside.
A bottle mail, written on red paper.
The title was:
"Confession of the Golden witch"

It even exceeds the amount of "confession" that was done in EP7 and is full to the brim with the true culprits resentment and grief.
What I want to say is, this is the bound confession letters of the "witch"...

[jjblue1]

Originally Posted by haguruma

Just a short post before I read on and post more later...
If this IS information from the manga and not made up or anything, then we have our answer on Ikuko:

Thank you for the translation. Honestly if that's the truth I'm disappointed. I wasn't really fond of the idea of Ikuko as Yasu who survived but the idea of Ikuko as random stranger who coincidentially found the bottle with the truth and Battler and coincidentially is wealthy enough to take care of him in private and coincidentially loves mystery and write them and coincidentially she and Battler establish a relationship which is more or less the same Battler had with Sayo... while let's not forget that coincidentally Battler is having amnesia but when Ikuko will read about Rokkenjima he coincidentally will start remembering and helping her writing Rokkenjima forgeries...

Really, the coincidentally is too much. Honestly I would have preferred for Ikuko to be removed or have a quite different backstory.

Besides... how did the bottle reached the roadside? Did Battler have it and lost hit when a car hit him? Well, at least this would make more sense than Ikuko coincidentally finding it...

Originally Posted by GoldenLand

It does make a lot of sense as a way of Kinzo identifying Lion. Another person on the island with polydactyly, of about the same age as Lion, brough there by Genji at an abnormally young age...Hell, poor Yasu is 75% Kinzo, right? It is a bit of cheap move, in that there were never hints of this in the VN despite there being an emphasis on what the polydactyly meant for Kinzo himself. But it does make sense. As does the possibility that the epitaph was placed there with the sole purpose of wringing Lion's secret out of Genji.

Yes, we were basically asked to assume that Yasu inherited it but no one found out apart for Kinzo who randomly saw Yasu's feet and figured out she had polydactyly just by a scar that must be really, really peculiar because feet can get hurt and scarred all the time and not just due to having a finger removed.

Originally Posted by GoldenLand

It doesn't totally rule out the possibility of Yasu just being some kid whom Genji brought to replace the dead Lion. If there had happened to be a kid with polydactyly at the orphanage, it would be possible. But it does make it a little less likely, and that's aside from the way that it being a random kid would thwart Genji's aim of non-molesting parent-child bonds being awakened just from having Yasu there on the island.

Honestly I think She was Lion otherwise all Genji had to do was to bribe her to pay the part or ask her to play the part out of pity for a poor old man who was dying and longed to receive forgiveness.

He had no need to pass all the ineritance to a fake, nor to fed her all those lies.

Originally Posted by GoldenLand

I wonder if Genji found out that the reason wasn't that sort of parent-child bond but just the discovery of the scar? I expect he would have been disappointed if he had. His ideas there surrounding the possibility of a wholesome parent child relationship springing into existence sounded romantic in the extreme.

I think it's possible Genji knows as I think the test implied Kumasawa was around and Kumasawa might have tattled out the incident to him. *sigh* Honestly, I think Genji deserves a prize for coming up with the WORST PLAN EVER.

Originally Posted by GoldenLand

Things could have been handled in a really different way had Kinzo talked to Yasu and ignored the epitaph, and most importantly skipped the whole tearful forgiveness scene with Yasu in her mother's dress. Genji has the worst taste in the entire world. Getting Yasu to dress that way, and having her wander past a whole lot of skeletons later on? Well, maybe the dress was Kinzo's idea. I'm really curious now. Did Genji get Yasu dress up and spring the epitaph thing on Kinzo all at once, or did he tell Kinzo first and follow Kinzo's directions for the meeting? I really have to wonder what was wrong with Kinzo that he didn't go for the sitting down and talking to Genji and Yasu option from the start. (Okay, okay, Ushiromiya Kinzo is not known for his good sense.) Maybe on some level he thought it was too good to be true.

Honestly I still don't get the dress. Kinzo knows she's a male, they're going to tell her she's a male, what is that mummery for? Feeding up the illusion that Lion is Beatrice reincarnated? Wasn't what Genji was trying to avoid? *sigh* That scene seems more for the sake of Beatrice's resurrection than for the sake of logic.

Originally Posted by GoldenLand

I'm rather pleased to hear that Kanon really was acted out for some time. I like Kanon a lot, and it seemed unfair that a major character like him could just be an imaginary friend who wasn't even a properly acted role. It's not surprising that Yasu's motivation would be to try to see if being male would be a better option, or that the servants would feel compelled to help with that. But if this was before Kinzo's death, wouldn't that be before Yasu found out about the body's original condition? Though she must have already felt uncomfortable for a long time about her lack of normal female development. It must have been quite brave to decide to dress as a male servant with the co-operation of the others even before obtaining the truth and the headship.

Maybe it started as some sort of rebellion? Her body looked so male like that she tried it as a way to cope? Maybe she hoped people would claim that Kanon was girlish so as to make her feel more fitting as a female? No idea.

Originally Posted by GoldenLand

That is tricky. Maybe Kinzo wasn't straightforward about his suspicions, and badly feared the possibility of them not being correct? I doubt he resented Genji's actions. Kinzo might have wanted to prove Lion's identity through magic, thus relying on the epitaph as final confirmation. And Genji might have played along with that. Or, possibly Genji just didn't know that Kinzo already had suspicions, or he might have feared that if he told Kinzo too early, Kinzo would harm Yasu.

Bah, at this point I don't really get Kinzo either. What about leaving down a will instead than an epitaph? Didn't he think his children wouldn't like to have a servant snatch away what they thought was rightfully theirs?
And letting his precious guns be touched by said servant without even being sure it was his son when his children never get the honour? Really, Kinzo is the worst.

... not mentioning that playing with guns did no good to Yasu...

[haguruma]

Originally Posted by jjblue1

Really, the coincidentally is too much. Honestly I would have preferred for Ikuko to be removed or have a quite different backstory...

Well, I actually like it in a way, because it plays to the element of chance in the story. None of Sayo's wishes were granted, just the one wish for someone to find her confession and judge her was found.

By the way, the area where Ikuko likely lives (it's either on the very south of the Izu peninsula or Nijima...I don't remember) has roads at the ocean...not close to the ocean but really at the ocean, in the sense of "you are 2m away from the water" close to the ocean...so by-the-roadside likely means that she saw it in the water. Though we'll have to wait till we/I have the chapters in hand to actually verify this.

And here the translation of the article...and now I really want to read the complete chapter 25 and 26...

Spoiler for The true culprit:

Servant: Sayo. Real name: Yasuda Sayo
Due to her carelesness she makes many mistakes on her job, she was often scolded for breaken the master's vases by mistake, but because her fellow servant Kumasawa concealed it by saying, "A cat did it," she escaped public blame.
Shannon is also the culprit of the strange incident where "exactly 1 key vanished from the key-chain of a servant."
She simply exchanged her key-batch, which had one key missing, with the one of the servant with all of them attached, the missing key was thrown into the servant locker by her beforehand.
This prank, that was supposed to tighten the resolve of her careless juniors at work, became later feared by all the servants as "the doing of the witch Beatrice who haunts Rokkenjima."
Her not growing chest, the first menstruation that did not come, as well as her face that looked just like a boy on first glance. She developed doubts concerning her own body, which grew stronger day by day.
She called to her mind an if-scenario of, "Might my life have been more happy had I spent it as a boy?"
This gradually developed into an escape mechanism of dressing up as a boy and pretending to be a servant by the name of "Kanon".
For good or bad, this brought her a modest amount of mental stability, and the servants Genji and Kumasawa strongly supported her game all the way.
Shannon became able to put up a laughing front, by pushing the heavy responsibilities of her "love" and her "daily complaints" onto the "witch" and the "little brother" within her heart.
She also gained actual friends, not only those in her fantasy. Her interaction with Ushiromiya Maria broadened Shannon's world and the "magic" that "Beatrice" showed her greatly pleased the innocent Maria.
She had polydactyly by birth and even though she was operated upon a small scar remained.
One day, when Shannon prepared food for Kinzo, she spilled the hot soup over her feet by mistake.
Kumasawa took off Shannon's shoes right there and treated her, not even noticing her great mistake.
But Kinzo's eyes immediately caught "that"...the "scar of the polydactyly operation" on Shannon's feet.
From that point onwards, she was invited by Kinzo to parties of clay pidgeon shooting with the guns that only the Ushiromiya family was allowed to touch, and while she was only a mere servant, she was in obvious favour of Kinzo.
While working as a servant, she fell in love a second time. The one she fell for was Ushiromiya George. Shannon had so many complexes as a woman, but George's plans for the future, wanting a life sorrounded by their children and grandchildren, inspired hope even within her.
Then she solved the epitaph. And in front of Kinzo, humbly begging for forgiveness, the whole truth was laid bare in before her.
I all began with her being a child of adultery, born out of incest...
"You suffered a huge laceration on your lower abdomen, but like a miracle you survived. We were not able to safe your mother...but that is why we wanted you to live all the more.
That is, we wanted you to live happily, even with a body that is unable to produce children"
"Why...?! Why did you safe me?!
Why didn't you just let me die?!
I never wanted to live in a body like this!! Such a body that cannot even make love...!!
That...that is a life that is not even worth living, don't you see?!
I'm not even human...! I'm more like furniture! Yes, I am furniture...!! Furniture I tell you...!
Why...why didn't you let me die at that time?!
UWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH...!!"
When Shannon solved the epitaph, this truth that she didn't want to know and had held no gain was pushed unto her, thus she lost all of the bright future that she had imagined.
And the "4 treasures" that the epitaph had spoken of, were for Shannon nothin more than a complete farce for "a device that is there to hide the gold."
That is why, when she saw the mountain of skeletons, produced in the incident in 1944, piled atop each other in one of the underground rooms, Shannon could only think this as the result of a plan Kinzo devised for monopolizing Beatrice and the gold by killing all of them.
And then he built the mansion in a place to hide the underground passage and the carelessly thrown together remains that went away unmourned.
More than anything, Genji's silence, him not objecting her ideas until the very end, only pushed Shannon's unjust suspicion beyond their limits.
That man's impure blood flowing within her own body was already too much to bear for her.
On the surface she continued her life as a servant without change from that day on. If there was one big change, then it was Shannon working together with Natsuhi to conceal the death of Kinzo.
"That insolent woman. She talks of protecting honor, but the only thing she wants to protect is her appearance!"
"Huh. This is just punishment for Kinzo who had raped me!"
In order to settle Krauss' debts, there was a necessity to shelf the question of the succession of the family head, that is when she approached them with a plan of false testimonies as if she had planned it from the beginning.
When looking at the situation from afar, it almost seemed as if a witch or something had granted them magical powers...
"Hey...About Kanon-kun...does he have a girlfriend....?"
The "little brother" that she used as an outlet for all her ill feeling was a great help to Shannon.
At the same time he served as a reminder of the truth that she really was an offspring of the adulterer Kinzo.
George and Jessica. Their love for her only grew stronger. And that blood within her rejoiced. Those Ushiromiya genes deep, deep within her.
While she was at the peak of bliss, that was the very reason that Shannon was unable to speak out about her true situation.
Even the trip with George that gave her a chance she let pass by idly when they stayed in separate rooms.
And then there was the day of the family conference in 1986. Ushiromiya George would come forward with an engagement ring for "Yasuda Sayo" on that day.
It was too hard for her to believe in a future fill of hope when nobody had ever accepted her for her true self.
"You love your whitewashing, furnituuure! Love is lust of the flesh measured in bodies atop each otheeeer! George will definitely despair!! As soon as he knows about your birth and your bodyyyyyy!"
"I wanted to be loved by somebody! I wanted to love somebody!
Is the thought of persuing this love with George-sama alone a sin?!"
"Nee-san, you think that even if you get rejected by George-sama, you will still have Jessica-sama, right?!
But Milady Jessica is no replacement for George-sama! Because I...I want to love...!!"
Try and change that situation with your gold, Kanon sneered at her while the witch was laughing at her from the shadows.
Even if she decided to spent her days without thinking too much about it, there was still the great ethical and moral dillema floating about, that everybody would be able to see, that was the genetic connection that made her "Beatrice".
Whatever she chose, she was sure to suffer. But she also suffered by not choosing. All because of the accursed lineage that was burdened upon her.
It was as if destiny was playing with her. But the girl did not know that this was what it meant to live.
George would have surely accepted her even if she came forward with all of this. She would surely be able to live as just "Yasuda Sayo", were she to discard "Beato" and "Kanon".
But that expectation was haunted by Shannon fearing in her heart the "nightmare that George might completely refuse the human that is me."
She knew for herself that George was not a man like that. She knew it, yet the fear would not go away.
And at the brim of her thoughts always lurked that most horrible future, to be refused by that "special someone" right in the moment she decided to pick them.
Then came 1986. It was as every year when the conference was approaching, when a worried Natsuhi spat out in front of the servants:
"For the first time in 6 years, Battler-kun is coming to the family conference"
....why did it have to happen now? Why did he come back now....? This timing, 1986, was more ruthless than any other time.
The duel of love that she had already planned through, now had to be revised to make room for the witch that had been added to this three-way deadlock.
The witch who had sowed none other than the seed called "first love" threw words of ridicule at Shannon who was shedding bloody tears within her heart.
"Aren't you the one who expected Battler's return more than anybody and rejoices more than anybody?!"
"Will you use him as an insurance in case George rejects you? Or will you hop over to Battler right nooow?!"
"Yeees, that's right! No matter who you choose, with that filthy body of yours you will never be bound to anybody!"
Anything and everything seemed against her. She cursed the whole world and her destiny.
As a result of her procrastinating time and time again, there was no strength left in her to face up to the harsh reality,
"I don't want to live in a body like this. If I were just able to undo it all, somehow, then..."
And then, as if it was timed by a demon, lightning illuminated that one passage of the epitaph and her gaze fell upon it.
"And none shall be left alive. And you shall arrive at the Land of Gold."
There existed a spell to invite them all into equality down the path of no return towards the underworld, where they would be released from their cages of flesh....everything could go to the Golden Land.
The gold, weapons, explosives. Preliminary arrangements and the pragmatic means were already in place without her doing. The execution had become possible by chance.
In the summer of 1986, while torrential rains was pouring around her, she secretly carried out a test of the explosives.
They had more power than she had even expected and blew the local shrine to bits.

The execution of her plan would come on the day of the family conference.
There were three eyes on the roulette she had prepared, corresponding to "the witch", "Yasuda Sayo" and "Kanon".
The make-believe murder. The epitaph being solved. And finally, the Golden Land.
This destructive risk, powered by a certain will, would surely bring about a true miracle of magic for her.
At least her expectations seemed to be higher than...
"The likelihood of her plan being stopped before execution, when throwing out a message bottle that sounds so much like a confession," right?!

October 6th 1986, 00:00 midnight.The Rokkenjima Explosion Incident occurs.
There is just one survivor, Ushiromiya Eva. That woman left this world without ever speaking of the incident.
That is why there is noone who knows of the existence of a servant girl who was toying with destiny in the shadows of the events.

...the details of a girl unable to make a decision,
her body wiped away without a trace, and only the ones who were supposed to be on the island that day know of her...

Though I do wonder how much more about Tohya the manga will reveal...

[jjblue1]

Originally Posted by haguruma

Well, I actually like it in a way, because it plays to the element of chance in the story. None of Sayo's wishes were granted, just the one wish for someone to find her confession and judge her was found.

Honestly there are a tad too much coincidences for me to swallow in Umineko. I already try not too think to hard at how an Italian submarine carrying a woman and 10 tons of gold ended up in Japan and then BANG, everyone died minus Kinzo and Beatrice and Kinzo managed to pull off not being suspected and not having people discover what had happened and hey, he could even buy Rokkenjima and Krauss and Co never discovered Kuwadorian and they even made for Kinzo a red button of doom in form of a clock and that's not even the tip of the iceberg but since it's the part of the iceberg that's under water I try not to see it.

Ikuko feels like a forced plot device. The VN makes her too weird to think she's just a bystander who coincidentially did this and that and that and that and that... and so on... merely because she felt like it.

Maybe the manga gives her a different feeling so I shouldn't judge without seeing the Tohya/Ikuko chapter (as the manga managed to make things work much better so maybe the general feeling I'll get by reading the chapter will be different from the one in the VN...) but as of now I'm not really pleased.

Originally Posted by haguruma

By the way, the area where Ikuko likely lives (it's either on the very south of the Izu peninsula or Nijima...I don't remember) has roads at the ocean...not close to the ocean but really at the ocean, in the sense of "you are 2m away from the water" close to the ocean...so by-the-roadside likely means that she saw it in the water. Though we'll have to wait till we/I have the chapters in hand to actually verify this.

Oh, okay...

Originally Posted by haguruma

And here the translation of the article...and now I really want to read the complete chapter 25 and 26...

Spoiler for The true culprit:

Servant: Sayo. Real name: Yasuda Sayo
Due to her carelesness she makes many mistakes on her job, she was often scolded for breaken the master's vases by mistake, but because her fellow servant Kumasawa concealed it by saying, "A cat did it," she escaped public blame.
Shannon is also the culprit of the strange incident where "exactly 1 key vanished from the key-chain of a servant."
She simply exchanged her key-batch, which had one key missing, with the one of the servant with all of them attached, the missing key was thrown into the servant locker by her beforehand.
This prank, that was supposed to tighten the resolve of her careless juniors at work, became later feared by all the servants as "the doing of the witch Beatrice who haunts Rokkenjima."
Her not growing chest, the first menstruation that did not come, as well as her face that looked just like a boy on first glance. She developed doubts concerning her own body, which grew stronger day by day.
She called to her mind an if-scenario of, "Might my life have been more happy had I spent it as a boy?"
This gradually developed into an escape mechanism of dressing up as a boy and pretending to be a servant by the name of "Kanon".
For good or bad, this brought her a modest amount of mental stability, and the servants Genji and Kumasawa strongly supported her game all the way.
Shannon became able to put up a laughing front, by pushing the heavy responsibilities of her "love" and her "daily complaints" onto the "witch" and the "little brother" within her heart.
She also gained actual friends, not only those in her fantasy. Her interaction with Ushiromiya Maria broadened Shannon's world and the "magic" that "Beatrice" showed her greatly pleased the innocent Maria.
She had polydactyly by birth and even though she was operated upon a small scar remained.
One day, when Shannon prepared food for Kinzo, she spilled the hot soup over her feet by mistake.
Kumasawa took off Shannon's shoes right there and treated her, not even noticing her great mistake.
But Kinzo's eyes immediately caught "that"...the "scar of the polydactyly operation" on Shannon's feet.
From that point onwards, she was invited by Kinzo to parties of clay pidgeon shooting with the guns that only the Ushiromiya family was allowed to touch, and while she was only a mere servant, she was in obvious favour of Kinzo.
While working as a servant, she fell in love a second time. The one she fell for was Ushiromiya George. Shannon had so many complexes as a woman, but George's plans for the future, wanting a life sorrounded by their children and grandchildren, inspired hope even within her.
Then she solved the epitaph. And in front of Kinzo, humbly begging for forgiveness, the whole truth was laid bare in before her.
I all began with her being a child of adultery, born out of incest...
"You suffered a huge laceration on your lower abdomen, but like a miracle you survived. We were not able to safe your mother...but that is why we wanted you to live all the more.
That is, we wanted you to live happily, even with a body that is unable to produce children"
"Why...?! Why did you safe me?!
Why didn't you just let me die?!
I never wanted to live in a body like this!! Such a body that cannot even make love...!!
That...that is a life that is not even worth living, don't you see?!
I'm not even human...! I'm more like furniture! Yes, I am furniture...!! Furniture I tell you...!
Why...why didn't you let me die at that time?!
UWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH...!!"
When Shannon solved the epitaph, this truth that she didn't want to know and had held no gain was pushed unto her, thus she lost all of the bright future that she had imagined.
And the "4 treasures" that the epitaph had spoken of, were for Shannon nothin more than a complete farce for "a device that is there to hide the gold."
That is why, when she saw the mountain of skeletons, produced in the incident in 1944, piled atop each other in one of the underground rooms, Shannon could only think this as the result of a plan Kinzo devised for monopolizing Beatrice and the gold by killing all of them.
And then he built the mansion in a place to hide the underground passage and the carelessly thrown together remains that went away unmourned.
More than anything, Genji's silence, him not objecting her ideas until the very end, only pushed Shannon's unjust suspicion beyond their limits.
That man's impure blood flowing within her own body was already too much to bear for her.
On the surface she continued her life as a servant without change from that day on. If there was one big change, then it was Shannon working together with Natsuhi to conceal the death of Kinzo.
"That insolent woman. She talks of protecting honor, but the only thing she wants to protect is her appearance!"
"Huh. This is just punishment for Kinzo who had raped me!"
In order to settle Krauss' debts, there was a necessity to shelf the question of the succession of the family head, that is when she approached them with a plan of false testimonies as if she had planned it from the beginning.
When looking at the situation from afar, it almost seemed as if a witch or something had granted them magical powers...
"Hey...About Kanon-kun...does he have a girlfriend....?"
The "little brother" that she used as an outlet for all her ill feeling was a great help to Shannon.
At the same time he served as a reminder of the truth that she really was an offspring of the adulterer Kinzo.
George and Jessica. Their love for her only grew stronger. And that blood within her rejoiced. Those Ushiromiya genes deep, deep within her.
While she was at the peak of bliss, that was the very reason that Shannon was unable to speak out about her true situation.
Even the trip with George that gave her a chance she let pass by idly when they stayed in separate rooms.
And then there was the day of the family conference in 1986. Ushiromiya George would come forward with an engagement ring for "Yasuda Sayo" on that day.
It was too hard for her to believe in a future fill of hope when nobody had ever accepted her for her true self.
"You love your whitewashing, furnituuure! Love is lust of the flesh measured in bodies atop each otheeeer! George will definitely despair!! As soon as he knows about your birth and your bodyyyyyy!"
"I wanted to be loved by somebody! I wanted to love somebody!
Is the thought of persuing this love with George-sama alone a sin?!"
"Nee-san, you think that even if you get rejected by George-sama, you will still have Jessica-sama, right?!
But Milady Jessica is no replacement for George-sama! Because I...I want to love...!!"
Try and change that situation with your gold, Kanon sneered at her while the witch was laughing at her from the shadows.
Even if she decided to spent her days without thinking too much about it, there was still the great ethical and moral dillema floating about, that everybody would be able to see, that was the genetic connection that made her "Beatrice".
Whatever she chose, she was sure to suffer. But she also suffered by not choosing. All because of the accursed lineage that was burdened upon her.
It was as if destiny was playing with her. But the girl did not know that this was what it meant to live.
George would have surely accepted her even if she came forward with all of this. She would surely be able to live as just "Yasuda Sayo", were she to discard "Beato" and "Kanon".
But that expectation was haunted by Shannon fearing in her heart the "nightmare that George might completely refuse the human that is me."
She knew for herself that George was not a man like that. She knew it, yet the fear would not go away.
And at the brim of her thoughts always lurked that most horrible future, to be refused by that "special someone" right in the moment she decided to pick them.
Then came 1986. It was as every year when the conference was approaching, when a worried Natsuhi spat out in front of the servants:
"For the first time in 6 years, Battler-kun is coming to the family conference"
....why did it have to happen now? Why did he come back now....? This timing, 1986, was more ruthless than any other time.
The duel of love that she had already planned through, now had to be revised to make room for the witch that had been added to this three-way deadlock.
The witch who had sowed none other than the seed called "first love" threw words of ridicule at Shannon who was shedding bloody tears within her heart.
"Aren't you the one who expected Battler's return more than anybody and rejoices more than anybody?!"
"Will you use him as an insurance in case George rejects you? Or will you hop over to Battler right nooow?!"
"Yeees, that's right! No matter who you choose, with that filthy body of yours you will never be bound to anybody!"
Anything and everything seemed against her. She cursed the whole world and her destiny.
As a result of her procrastinating time and time again, there was no strength left in her to face up to the harsh reality,
"I don't want to live in a body like this. If I were just able to undo it all, somehow, then..."
And then, as if it was timed by a demon, lightning illuminated that one passage of the epitaph and her gaze fell upon it.
"And none shall be left alive. And you shall arrive at the Land of Gold."
There existed a spell to invite them all into equality down the path of no return towards the underworld, where they would be released from their cages of flesh....everything could go to the Golden Land.
The gold, weapons, explosives. Preliminary arrangements and the pragmatic means were already in place without her doing. The execution had become possible by chance.
In the summer of 1986, while torrential rains was pouring around her, she secretly carried out a test of the explosives.
They had more power than she had even expected and blew the local shrine to bits.

The execution of her plan would come on the day of the family conference.
There were three eyes on the roulette she had prepared, corresponding to "the witch", "Yasuda Sayo" and "Kanon".
The make-believe murder. The epitaph being solved. And finally, the Golden Land.
This destructive risk, powered by a certain will, would surely bring about a true miracle of magic for her.
At least her expectations seemed to be higher than...
"The likelihood of her plan being stopped before execution, when throwing out a message bottle that sounds so much like a confession," right?!

October 6th 1986, 00:00 midnight.The Rokkenjima Explosion Incident occurs.
There is just one survivor, Ushiromiya Eva. That woman left this world without ever speaking of the incident.
That is why there is noone who knows of the existence of a servant girl who was toying with destiny in the shadows of the events.

...the details of a girl unable to make a decision,
her body wiped away without a trace, and only the ones who were supposed to be on the island that day know of her...

Thank you so much for the translation! It's scary how Sayo was basically let spiral into madness. They abandoned her to herself to deal with all that...

... it seems Ep 7 really sugar coated things as the truth was a lot more ugly than one could even think.

Though I find laughable how they told her they wanted her to live happily and then didn't give her a single way to live happily. They didn't give her a family, they didn't help her with her complexes and gender issues, they kept her in a toxic environment, they told her truth she didn't need to know and didn't help her to deal with them and then, when she said she would prefer to be dead... they basically let her keep on feeling miserable?

Geez, you really wanted her to be happy, didn't you?

Honestly, I get why she wanted to get rid of you...

Originally Posted by haguruma

Though I do wonder how much more about Tohya the manga will reveal...

*sigh* I'm starting to think the manga will tell us that everything took place without Battler noticing, Eva offed Kyrie and Rudolf and then found Battler still alive and unaware of what had happened. She tried to save him by claiming 'someone killed everyone' and dragged him into the tunnel, he suspected her and she shoot him. She didn't manage to kill him though but left him for death. He managed to get up and escaped into the other tunnel and that's how he survived.

In short it'll go for the boring solution.

[GoldenLand]

Originally Posted by haguruma

Spoiler for The true culprit:

Servant: Sayo. Real name: Yasuda Sayo
Due to her carelesness she makes many mistakes on her job, she was often scolded for breaken the master's vases by mistake, but because her fellow servant Kumasawa concealed it by saying, "A cat did it," she escaped public blame.
Shannon is also the culprit of the strange incident where "exactly 1 key vanished from the key-chain of a servant."
She simply exchanged her key-batch, which had one key missing, with the one of the servant with all of them attached, the missing key was thrown into the servant locker by her beforehand.
This prank, that was supposed to tighten the resolve of her careless juniors at work, became later feared by all the servants as "the doing of the witch Beatrice who haunts Rokkenjima."
Her not growing chest, the first menstruation that did not come, as well as her face that looked just like a boy on first glance. She developed doubts concerning her own body, which grew stronger day by day.
She called to her mind an if-scenario of, "Might my life have been more happy had I spent it as a boy?"
This gradually developed into an escape mechanism of dressing up as a boy and pretending to be a servant by the name of "Kanon".
For good or bad, this brought her a modest amount of mental stability, and the servants Genji and Kumasawa strongly supported her game all the way.
Shannon became able to put up a laughing front, by pushing the heavy responsibilities of her "love" and her "daily complaints" onto the "witch" and the "little brother" within her heart.
She also gained actual friends, not only those in her fantasy. Her interaction with Ushiromiya Maria broadened Shannon's world and the "magic" that "Beatrice" showed her greatly pleased the innocent Maria.
She had polydactyly by birth and even though she was operated upon a small scar remained.
One day, when Shannon prepared food for Kinzo, she spilled the hot soup over her feet by mistake.
Kumasawa took off Shannon's shoes right there and treated her, not even noticing her great mistake.
But Kinzo's eyes immediately caught "that"...the "scar of the polydactyly operation" on Shannon's feet.
From that point onwards, she was invited by Kinzo to parties of clay pidgeon shooting with the guns that only the Ushiromiya family was allowed to touch, and while she was only a mere servant, she was in obvious favour of Kinzo.
While working as a servant, she fell in love a second time. The one she fell for was Ushiromiya George. Shannon had so many complexes as a woman, but George's plans for the future, wanting a life sorrounded by their children and grandchildren, inspired hope even within her.
Then she solved the epitaph. And in front of Kinzo, humbly begging for forgiveness, the whole truth was laid bare in before her.
I all began with her being a child of adultery, born out of incest...
"You suffered a huge laceration on your lower abdomen, but like a miracle you survived. We were not able to safe your mother...but that is why we wanted you to live all the more.
That is, we wanted you to live happily, even with a body that is unable to produce children"
"Why...?! Why did you safe me?!
Why didn't you just let me die?!
I never wanted to live in a body like this!! Such a body that cannot even make love...!!
That...that is a life that is not even worth living, don't you see?!
I'm not even human...! I'm more like furniture! Yes, I am furniture...!! Furniture I tell you...!
Why...why didn't you let me die at that time?!
UWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH...!!"
When Shannon solved the epitaph, this truth that she didn't want to know and had held no gain was pushed unto her, thus she lost all of the bright future that she had imagined.
And the "4 treasures" that the epitaph had spoken of, were for Shannon nothin more than a complete farce for "a device that is there to hide the gold."
That is why, when she saw the mountain of skeletons, produced in the incident in 1944, piled atop each other in one of the underground rooms, Shannon could only think this as the result of a plan Kinzo devised for monopolizing Beatrice and the gold by killing all of them.
And then he built the mansion in a place to hide the underground passage and the carelessly thrown together remains that went away unmourned.
More than anything, Genji's silence, him not objecting her ideas until the very end, only pushed Shannon's unjust suspicion beyond their limits.
That man's impure blood flowing within her own body was already too much to bear for her.
On the surface she continued her life as a servant without change from that day on. If there was one big change, then it was Shannon working together with Natsuhi to conceal the death of Kinzo.
"That insolent woman. She talks of protecting honor, but the only thing she wants to protect is her appearance!"
"Huh. This is just punishment for Kinzo who had raped me!"
In order to settle Krauss' debts, there was a necessity to shelf the question of the succession of the family head, that is when she approached them with a plan of false testimonies as if she had planned it from the beginning.
When looking at the situation from afar, it almost seemed as if a witch or something had granted them magical powers...
"Hey...About Kanon-kun...does he have a girlfriend....?"
The "little brother" that she used as an outlet for all her ill feeling was a great help to Shannon.
At the same time he served as a reminder of the truth that she really was an offspring of the adulterer Kinzo.
George and Jessica. Their love for her only grew stronger. And that blood within her rejoiced. Those Ushiromiya genes deep, deep within her.
While she was at the peak of bliss, that was the very reason that Shannon was unable to speak out about her true situation.
Even the trip with George that gave her a chance she let pass by idly when they stayed in separate rooms.
And then there was the day of the family conference in 1986. Ushiromiya George would come forward with an engagement ring for "Yasuda Sayo" on that day.
It was too hard for her to believe in a future fill of hope when nobody had ever accepted her for her true self.
"You love your whitewashing, furnituuure! Love is lust of the flesh measured in bodies atop each otheeeer! George will definitely despair!! As soon as he knows about your birth and your bodyyyyyy!"
"I wanted to be loved by somebody! I wanted to love somebody!
Is the thought of persuing this love with George-sama alone a sin?!"
"Nee-san, you think that even if you get rejected by George-sama, you will still have Jessica-sama, right?!
But Milady Jessica is no replacement for George-sama! Because I...I want to love...!!"
Try and change that situation with your gold, Kanon sneered at her while the witch was laughing at her from the shadows.
Even if she decided to spent her days without thinking too much about it, there was still the great ethical and moral dillema floating about, that everybody would be able to see, that was the genetic connection that made her "Beatrice".
Whatever she chose, she was sure to suffer. But she also suffered by not choosing. All because of the accursed lineage that was burdened upon her.
It was as if destiny was playing with her. But the girl did not know that this was what it meant to live.
George would have surely accepted her even if she came forward with all of this. She would surely be able to live as just "Yasuda Sayo", were she to discard "Beato" and "Kanon".
But that expectation was haunted by Shannon fearing in her heart the "nightmare that George might completely refuse the human that is me."
She knew for herself that George was not a man like that. She knew it, yet the fear would not go away.
And at the brim of her thoughts always lurked that most horrible future, to be refused by that "special someone" right in the moment she decided to pick them.
Then came 1986. It was as every year when the conference was approaching, when a worried Natsuhi spat out in front of the servants:
"For the first time in 6 years, Battler-kun is coming to the family conference"
....why did it have to happen now? Why did he come back now....? This timing, 1986, was more ruthless than any other time.
The duel of love that she had already planned through, now had to be revised to make room for the witch that had been added to this three-way deadlock.
The witch who had sowed none other than the seed called "first love" threw words of ridicule at Shannon who was shedding bloody tears within her heart.
"Aren't you the one who expected Battler's return more than anybody and rejoices more than anybody?!"
"Will you use him as an insurance in case George rejects you? Or will you hop over to Battler right nooow?!"
"Yeees, that's right! No matter who you choose, with that filthy body of yours you will never be bound to anybody!"
Anything and everything seemed against her. She cursed the whole world and her destiny.
As a result of her procrastinating time and time again, there was no strength left in her to face up to the harsh reality,
"I don't want to live in a body like this. If I were just able to undo it all, somehow, then..."
And then, as if it was timed by a demon, lightning illuminated that one passage of the epitaph and her gaze fell upon it.
"And none shall be left alive. And you shall arrive at the Land of Gold."
There existed a spell to invite them all into equality down the path of no return towards the underworld, where they would be released from their cages of flesh....everything could go to the Golden Land.
The gold, weapons, explosives. Preliminary arrangements and the pragmatic means were already in place without her doing. The execution had become possible by chance.
In the summer of 1986, while torrential rains was pouring around her, she secretly carried out a test of the explosives.
They had more power than she had even expected and blew the local shrine to bits.

The execution of her plan would come on the day of the family conference.
There were three eyes on the roulette she had prepared, corresponding to "the witch", "Yasuda Sayo" and "Kanon".
The make-believe murder. The epitaph being solved. And finally, the Golden Land.
This destructive risk, powered by a certain will, would surely bring about a true miracle of magic for her.
At least her expectations seemed to be higher than...
"The likelihood of her plan being stopped before execution, when throwing out a message bottle that sounds so much like a confession," right?!

October 6th 1986, 00:00 midnight.The Rokkenjima Explosion Incident occurs.
There is just one survivor, Ushiromiya Eva. That woman left this world without ever speaking of the incident.
That is why there is noone who knows of the existence of a servant girl who was toying with destiny in the shadows of the events.

...the details of a girl unable to make a decision,
her body wiped away without a trace, and only the ones who were supposed to be on the island that day know of her...

That's spoilered as "the true culprit", but...

Spoiler for discussion of the spoilers:

Does that really 100% mean that Yasu was the main culprit who intended to kill everyone and went ahead with her plan successfully?

That does seem to confirm a fake murder game at first, with the intent to make people solve the epitaph. And it looks very much as if Yasu intended to die on Rokkenjima that day, and to at minimum feel ready to set off the bomb at least in theory. But on the face of it it doesn't rule out Yasu not having the nerve or intention to murder anyone else. Or the possibility of the epitaph being solved before Yasu could do anything either way, her giving up, and the adults being the ones to start the killings.

[Renall]

At what point in the thought process did "We'll reassign the child's gender and raise them as a female even though regardless of presented gender sexual activity will be impossible" come to sound like a good idea to Genji? I mean there's a big difference between "I'm male but due to a childhood injury things don't work right" and "I thought I was female, but then puberty hit and I didn't develop like a female in any way and at some point I was finally told that I was actually born sexually male." Why was any of that even necessary? Did Genji think more than 20 minutes ahead and wonder what was going to happen in 12 years or so? It was actually more difficult to do the thing that hurt Yasu more.

Genji is basically gradually being characterized by the manga as a guy who didn't just drop the ball, he spiked it in the endzone directly into Yasu's face and then back-shuffled out of the stadium shooting the middle finger to literally everyone. Like some kind of characterization scapegoat. Why did (nonsensical or traumatic thing) happen? Because Genji is a stupid asshole, next question.

[Dr. Casey]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

Could Kinzo have dementia at that age in his life?

What age do you mean? If you're talking about Yasu's birth in 1967, doubtful - Kinzo would only have been in his early 60s at that point, and dementia at that age is quite rare. I'm inclined to think that Kinzo never developed dementia, though, because that would muddy the waters too much - the mistakes of his later years could be blamed on the dementia rather than Kinzo himself, and that's just not very satisfying from a storytelling perspective.

@jj: That sounds amazing, but I'm not sure that's the right chapter. I read through episode 8 chapter 8 (the third and last chapter of the Halloween party), but the Kinzo/Genji flashback wasn't featured there. I'm curious to see if Kinzo had some screws loose even as a youth, or if he was perfectly stable and balanced during his early, pre-Headship years.

Also, lol'd at Renall's description of Asshole Genji.

[haguruma]

Originally Posted by GoldenLand

That's spoilered as "the true culprit", but...

Spoiler for discussion of the spoilers:

Does that really 100% mean that Yasu was the main culprit who intended to kill everyone and went ahead with her plan successfully?

That does seem to confirm a fake murder game at first, with the intent to make people solve the epitaph. And it looks very much as if Yasu intended to die on Rokkenjima that day, and to at minimum feel ready to set off the bomb at least in theory. But on the face of it it doesn't rule out Yasu not having the nerve or intention to murder anyone else. Or the possibility of the epitaph being solved before Yasu could do anything either way, her giving up, and the adults being the ones to start the killings.

Nah, it doesn't really mean that everything between October 4th when Yasu threw out the bottles and the 6th when the explosion happened actually occurred in one of the three ways she had imagined. She imagined this roulette with 3 different outcomes but failed to see that the people around her are not as passive as herself.

So very likely the content of Eva's diary is pretty much completely true as well, though probably tainted by a lot of bile and anger from Eva after the incident...as well as written from her personal perspective.

I do wonder though if the manga is also going to give us a little bit more about the catbox and how Battler escaped...

On a different note:
What I do like is the more obvious parallels between Yasu and Ange that are woven into the manga, which the VN sadly underplayed a lot. In the siege on the chapel, when Ange and Beatrice have their battle...it's kind of underwhelming and after reading it in the manga I can't help but think that the seiyuu did a mediocre job in the PS3 version as well.
In the manga there are two instances that stand out for me. One is Beatrice saying that "Those who loose sight of their own future because they chain themselves to the past are the saddest of all", and of course it completely goes by Ange that Beato also means herself in a way.
The other is when Ange says that a life like her's is not worth living, one where she would be all alone, nobody there to understand her, and that she simply wanted to know the reason for her loneliness and then just go and join all her family in death...which makes Beato remember how "she" went through similar motions.

[Ithekro]

Originally Posted by Dr. Casey

What age do you mean? If you're talking about Yasu's birth in 1967, doubtful - Kinzo would only have been in his early 60s at that point, and dementia at that age is quite rare. I'm inclined to think that Kinzo never developed dementia, though, because that would muddy the waters too much - the mistakes of his later years could be blamed on the dementia rather than Kinzo himself, and that's just not very satisfying from a storytelling perspective.

@jj: That sounds amazing, but I'm not sure that's the right chapter. I read through episode 8 chapter 8 (the third and last chapter of the Halloween party), but the Kinzo/Genji flashback wasn't featured there. I'm curious to see if Kinzo had some screws loose even as a youth, or if he was perfectly stable and balanced during his early, pre-Headship years.

Also, lol'd at Renall's description of Asshole Genji.

I was thinking in the 80s when Yasu shows up again.

[Captain Bluebeard]

Originally Posted by haguruma

And here the translation of the article...and now I really want to read the complete chapter 25 and 26...

Spoiler for The true culprit:

Servant: Sayo. Real name: Yasuda Sayo
Due to her carelesness she makes many mistakes on her job, she was often scolded for breaken the master's vases by mistake, but because her fellow servant Kumasawa concealed it by saying, "A cat did it," she escaped public blame.
Shannon is also the culprit of the strange incident where "exactly 1 key vanished from the key-chain of a servant."
She simply exchanged her key-batch, which had one key missing, with the one of the servant with all of them attached, the missing key was thrown into the servant locker by her beforehand.
This prank, that was supposed to tighten the resolve of her careless juniors at work, became later feared by all the servants as "the doing of the witch Beatrice who haunts Rokkenjima."
Her not growing chest, the first menstruation that did not come, as well as her face that looked just like a boy on first glance. She developed doubts concerning her own body, which grew stronger day by day.
She called to her mind an if-scenario of, "Might my life have been more happy had I spent it as a boy?"
This gradually developed into an escape mechanism of dressing up as a boy and pretending to be a servant by the name of "Kanon".
For good or bad, this brought her a modest amount of mental stability, and the servants Genji and Kumasawa strongly supported her game all the way.
Shannon became able to put up a laughing front, by pushing the heavy responsibilities of her "love" and her "daily complaints" onto the "witch" and the "little brother" within her heart.
She also gained actual friends, not only those in her fantasy. Her interaction with Ushiromiya Maria broadened Shannon's world and the "magic" that "Beatrice" showed her greatly pleased the innocent Maria.
She had polydactyly by birth and even though she was operated upon a small scar remained.
One day, when Shannon prepared food for Kinzo, she spilled the hot soup over her feet by mistake.
Kumasawa took off Shannon's shoes right there and treated her, not even noticing her great mistake.
But Kinzo's eyes immediately caught "that"...the "scar of the polydactyly operation" on Shannon's feet.
From that point onwards, she was invited by Kinzo to parties of clay pidgeon shooting with the guns that only the Ushiromiya family was allowed to touch, and while she was only a mere servant, she was in obvious favour of Kinzo.
While working as a servant, she fell in love a second time. The one she fell for was Ushiromiya George. Shannon had so many complexes as a woman, but George's plans for the future, wanting a life sorrounded by their children and grandchildren, inspired hope even within her.
Then she solved the epitaph. And in front of Kinzo, humbly begging for forgiveness, the whole truth was laid bare in before her.
I all began with her being a child of adultery, born out of incest...
"You suffered a huge laceration on your lower abdomen, but like a miracle you survived. We were not able to safe your mother...but that is why we wanted you to live all the more.
That is, we wanted you to live happily, even with a body that is unable to produce children"
"Why...?! Why did you safe me?!
Why didn't you just let me die?!
I never wanted to live in a body like this!! Such a body that cannot even make love...!!
That...that is a life that is not even worth living, don't you see?!
I'm not even human...! I'm more like furniture! Yes, I am furniture...!! Furniture I tell you...!
Why...why didn't you let me die at that time?!
UWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH...!!"
When Shannon solved the epitaph, this truth that she didn't want to know and had held no gain was pushed unto her, thus she lost all of the bright future that she had imagined.
And the "4 treasures" that the epitaph had spoken of, were for Shannon nothin more than a complete farce for "a device that is there to hide the gold."
That is why, when she saw the mountain of skeletons, produced in the incident in 1944, piled atop each other in one of the underground rooms, Shannon could only think this as the result of a plan Kinzo devised for monopolizing Beatrice and the gold by killing all of them.
And then he built the mansion in a place to hide the underground passage and the carelessly thrown together remains that went away unmourned.
More than anything, Genji's silence, him not objecting her ideas until the very end, only pushed Shannon's unjust suspicion beyond their limits.
That man's impure blood flowing within her own body was already too much to bear for her.
On the surface she continued her life as a servant without change from that day on. If there was one big change, then it was Shannon working together with Natsuhi to conceal the death of Kinzo.
"That insolent woman. She talks of protecting honor, but the only thing she wants to protect is her appearance!"
"Huh. This is just punishment for Kinzo who had raped me!"
In order to settle Krauss' debts, there was a necessity to shelf the question of the succession of the family head, that is when she approached them with a plan of false testimonies as if she had planned it from the beginning.
When looking at the situation from afar, it almost seemed as if a witch or something had granted them magical powers...
"Hey...About Kanon-kun...does he have a girlfriend....?"
The "little brother" that she used as an outlet for all her ill feeling was a great help to Shannon.
At the same time he served as a reminder of the truth that she really was an offspring of the adulterer Kinzo.
George and Jessica. Their love for her only grew stronger. And that blood within her rejoiced. Those Ushiromiya genes deep, deep within her.
While she was at the peak of bliss, that was the very reason that Shannon was unable to speak out about her true situation.
Even the trip with George that gave her a chance she let pass by idly when they stayed in separate rooms.
And then there was the day of the family conference in 1986. Ushiromiya George would come forward with an engagement ring for "Yasuda Sayo" on that day.
It was too hard for her to believe in a future fill of hope when nobody had ever accepted her for her true self.
"You love your whitewashing, furnituuure! Love is lust of the flesh measured in bodies atop each otheeeer! George will definitely despair!! As soon as he knows about your birth and your bodyyyyyy!"
"I wanted to be loved by somebody! I wanted to love somebody!
Is the thought of persuing this love with George-sama alone a sin?!"
"Nee-san, you think that even if you get rejected by George-sama, you will still have Jessica-sama, right?!
But Milady Jessica is no replacement for George-sama! Because I...I want to love...!!"
Try and change that situation with your gold, Kanon sneered at her while the witch was laughing at her from the shadows.
Even if she decided to spent her days without thinking too much about it, there was still the great ethical and moral dillema floating about, that everybody would be able to see, that was the genetic connection that made her "Beatrice".
Whatever she chose, she was sure to suffer. But she also suffered by not choosing. All because of the accursed lineage that was burdened upon her.
It was as if destiny was playing with her. But the girl did not know that this was what it meant to live.
George would have surely accepted her even if she came forward with all of this. She would surely be able to live as just "Yasuda Sayo", were she to discard "Beato" and "Kanon".
But that expectation was haunted by Shannon fearing in her heart the "nightmare that George might completely refuse the human that is me."
She knew for herself that George was not a man like that. She knew it, yet the fear would not go away.
And at the brim of her thoughts always lurked that most horrible future, to be refused by that "special someone" right in the moment she decided to pick them.
Then came 1986. It was as every year when the conference was approaching, when a worried Natsuhi spat out in front of the servants:
"For the first time in 6 years, Battler-kun is coming to the family conference"
....why did it have to happen now? Why did he come back now....? This timing, 1986, was more ruthless than any other time.
The duel of love that she had already planned through, now had to be revised to make room for the witch that had been added to this three-way deadlock.
The witch who had sowed none other than the seed called "first love" threw words of ridicule at Shannon who was shedding bloody tears within her heart.
"Aren't you the one who expected Battler's return more than anybody and rejoices more than anybody?!"
"Will you use him as an insurance in case George rejects you? Or will you hop over to Battler right nooow?!"
"Yeees, that's right! No matter who you choose, with that filthy body of yours you will never be bound to anybody!"
Anything and everything seemed against her. She cursed the whole world and her destiny.
As a result of her procrastinating time and time again, there was no strength left in her to face up to the harsh reality,
"I don't want to live in a body like this. If I were just able to undo it all, somehow, then..."
And then, as if it was timed by a demon, lightning illuminated that one passage of the epitaph and her gaze fell upon it.
"And none shall be left alive. And you shall arrive at the Land of Gold."
There existed a spell to invite them all into equality down the path of no return towards the underworld, where they would be released from their cages of flesh....everything could go to the Golden Land.
The gold, weapons, explosives. Preliminary arrangements and the pragmatic means were already in place without her doing. The execution had become possible by chance.
In the summer of 1986, while torrential rains was pouring around her, she secretly carried out a test of the explosives.
They had more power than she had even expected and blew the local shrine to bits.

The execution of her plan would come on the day of the family conference.
There were three eyes on the roulette she had prepared, corresponding to "the witch", "Yasuda Sayo" and "Kanon".
The make-believe murder. The epitaph being solved. And finally, the Golden Land.
This destructive risk, powered by a certain will, would surely bring about a true miracle of magic for her.
At least her expectations seemed to be higher than...
"The likelihood of her plan being stopped before execution, when throwing out a message bottle that sounds so much like a confession," right?!

October 6th 1986, 00:00 midnight.The Rokkenjima Explosion Incident occurs.
There is just one survivor, Ushiromiya Eva. That woman left this world without ever speaking of the incident.
That is why there is noone who knows of the existence of a servant girl who was toying with destiny in the shadows of the events.

...the details of a girl unable to make a decision,
her body wiped away without a trace, and only the ones who were supposed to be on the island that day know of her...

Though I do wonder how much more about Tohya the manga will reveal...

Thanks so much for this translation! It is very interesting.... but it sort of makes me want to curse Ryukishi for being a lazy-ass in the entire Chiru.

A great portion of this is necessary info that should have been in EP7, because heck, it is part of the answer! Apart from that, it sort of confirms Yasu dressing up as Kanon which I really wished wasn't true, but well, since Genji and the others were in on it all the way it can.... sort of... work if we are willing to twist some stuff around.

Anyway, I really like the polydactility idea except... it was never adressed in canon, so why bother put it in now? If Ryukishi had a general idea for that (which he almost certainly did) he should have put it in the actual VNs. Seriously, Chiru is so full of screw-ups here and there, and the manga is only making them stand out more, but at least it is partially making up for them.

Originally Posted by GoldenLand

That's spoilered as "the true culprit", but...

Spoiler for discussion of the spoilers:

Does that really 100% mean that Yasu was the main culprit who intended to kill everyone and went ahead with her plan successfully?

That does seem to confirm a fake murder game at first, with the intent to make people solve the epitaph. And it looks very much as if Yasu intended to die on Rokkenjima that day, and to at minimum feel ready to set off the bomb at least in theory. But on the face of it it doesn't rule out Yasu not having the nerve or intention to murder anyone else. Or the possibility of the epitaph being solved before Yasu could do anything either way, her giving up, and the adults being the ones to start the killings.

Rather than an actual confession, could it be another attempt by Yasu to mark herself as the culprit? If she wanted to be condemned and judged, she obviously knew what she was doing was objectively wrong and yet went along with it then.... it doesn't sit well with me.

[Renall]

So hey speaking of things that are objectively wrong according to the story, how about magic?

I mean, let's assume all the above information about Yasu is true. Ultimately, then, we can say that "Yasu" is an illusion and basically every aspect of her identity is a false construction. Yasu isn't "Sayo Yasuda," she isn't female, she isn't a servant, she isn't an orphan. This identity she believed she had fell apart the moment she started looking into it with any sort of critical eye and discovered that, surprise surprise, it wasn't true. The only reason "Yasu" exists at all is because it was more convenient for Genji to lie. But this proved wholly temporary and did nothing to stop any of the negative consequences of the lie.

But it's worse than that, as arguably Bern is correct in a roundabout way and "Lion" is also an unsustainable illusion. "Lion Ushiromiya" as the son of Krauss and Natsuhi was no less an illusion, and his rejection by Natsuhi was essentially because she couldn't bring herself to participate in a fiction. A fiction that was being forced upon her by Kinzo, who wanted it done because it was more convenient than admitting the truth. I'm not saying it was right for her to do what she did (but neither is she), but who the hell does Kinzo think he is to try to make her do that?

So really, when has magic ever helped anyone in Umineko?

• The lie of her innocence and fidelity drove Natsuhi to delusion.
• The lie that Kinzo would recognize her as a candidate for the headship led Eva to be fueled by her insecurities in the face of the truth that she was perfectly competent without her father's approval, something her husband kept telling her.
• The lies surrounding Kinzo's death in no way helped Krauss's financial situation and just put everyone else in his family at risk.
• Lying to Kyrie, Asumu, and Battler just ended up completely screwing up Rudolf's family situation for the sake of convenience, and may have done much worse if it had some effect on Kyrie's mental state. If nothing else, it drove her toward a murderous mindset on at least one occasion.
• The entire Maria/Rosa relationship is based on Rosa's inability to empathize with Maria being in the same situation she was and Maria's unwillingness to confront the things that are uncomfortable to her. They both made excuses for their behavior.
• The Maria/Beatrice relationship is essentially two people who don't like their crappy situations imagining better ones that just reinforce their unhealthy coping mechanisms.
• Erika's inability to deal with uncertainty led her to construct fictions she could pretend were reliable truths rather than accept the reality of her feelings.
• The catbox is clearly and provably morally wrong and ultimately ended up hurting Ange. Beatrice knew from the start that it was wrong, which is why she wanted someone to stop her, but the allure of the easy lie of the Golden Land was stronger than the difficult truth of living.
• Eva refusing to say anything damaged any trust Ange had in her and destroyed their relationship.
• Battler's gentle lie in ep8 didn't convince Ange of any of the points he was supposedly trying to convey to her because Ange immediately recognized it was false and refused to understand the intention behind what Battler was doing.
• Tohya's very existence is essentially unfair to him, because he's actually a new construction in the body of a different person entirely. Of course this depends on whether Ikuko knew who he was, but man if she did...

Magic is only ever a temporary convenience that causes either you or someone else long-term harm. This seems to be the actual conclusion supported by the text. It clearly wasn't a successful coping mechanism for Yasu, because it didn't let her make a choice and commit to it. She had an excess of illusion and no truth, no wonder she wasn't satisfied with any of it; she hadn't been allowed to have a real identity.

Battler's "there's some things you'd be better off not knowing" argument is, effectively, a dodge. It's evading the fact actually shown by the story that even if his claim were true, it's impossible to avoid at least realizing your ignorance at some point, and that is fundamentally harmful. Yeah, Ange didn't know the truth... but she knew that she didn't know, and that was the source of her pain. Beatrice's fundamental error is creating the catbox without realizing that she could hide the contents of it but not the fact that it exists in the first place. She wasn't really erasing herself. That's impossible, it's a lie, it's magic. There will be consequences for the world as a result of her existence and she cannot wipe that away just by hiding knowledge of her existence.

What did help Ange? Facing the truth. In ep4 she learns to forgive Eva and Rosa and Kasumi through empathy, looking at them as human beings and understanding that they were hurt by people who should have cared about them just like she was. Being able to understand that the people who hurt her weren't inherently evil was cathartic. In ep8 she ultimately can't progress until she knows. Learning the truth doesn't harm her any more than it harmed Yasu; what hurt them was learning the truth after being forced to live years and years with the truth concealed from them out of convenience to others. The truth "hurt" Yasu because she learned that after all this time of "being Yasu," there wasn't a Yasu in the first place. But the only reason that hurt is because some idiot decided "Yasu" was more convenient than fessing up to what they did wrong. Her pain is entirely the making of other people lying about who she was because it was easier to do so, and when it all came crashing down it did so on her head.

So... uh... is the story saying that Bern is right? Because she might be ethically or motivationally wrong in what she does, but she doesn't seem to be factually wrong. She might want to reveal the truth for the wrong reasons (sadism, etc.), but a person can be right for the wrong reason. At the very least, I don't see any particularly good evidence to suggest ep8 Battler is more correct than she is, since his arguments contradict the rest of the story.

[haguruma]

Originally Posted by Renall

So... uh... is the story saying that Bern is right? Because she might be ethically or motivationally wrong in what she does, but she doesn't seem to be factually wrong. She might want to reveal the truth for the wrong reasons (sadism, etc.), but a person can be right for the wrong reason. At the very least, I don't see any particularly good evidence to suggest ep8 Battler is more correct than she is, since his arguments contradict the rest of the story.

I think in a way it is and the EP8 manga is really enforcing it at several points that, while Bern is a bully who doesn't mind people suffering for her entertainment, she fulfills a necessary role in the narrative.
The fact alone that Ange so readily runs towards Bern, that she willingly tosses away her "childish dream of her family's return" and throws her life away to get hold of the truth is very indicative of the fact that what Battler is doing is wrong. Ange saying that "Battler is no better than the enemy Beatrice he tried to defeat" is a reasonable argument.

The bases in EP8 are basically turned on their heads, but I wouldn't say that they automatically make the catbox-fraction out to be the good guys. Battler says to Beato that, if needed, he'd use force on Ange to keep her from reading the diary. He literally chains her to his gameboard in the manga. Bern, Eva-Beatrice and Erika are making reasonable arguments by saying that all the misery sorrounding the catbox was a thing of their own doing...Eva-Beato nails it in chapter 17 of the manga, saying: by creating the catbox, by living lifes that gave the public no other chance but to doubt them, by failing to tell the truth at any given point they brought all of this upon themselves.

While Bern is clearly an antagonist, I'd say Battler has become something of a mix between an anti-hero and an anti-villain. He is doing what he thinks is best for the people he loves, but at the same time he doesn't even give them a chance to voice their doubts.
In the manga he admits, there was no Halloween party in 1986, he readily agrees that his tale is a lie, but he'd rather force his sister into not knowing than let her grow by facing the truth.

Ange's answer to Beatrice when she asks, whether Ange had not understood Maria's magic book that they left her, is quite impactful in that regard:

Yes, I understood.
And I despaired over how powerless it is...
And all this, all that what my brother tried forcing on me...
Can I really go on living without knowing?!
The sweet illusion, the catbox all of you built is just a simple trick that tells me that I can go on living by just ignoring the corpses!
But just ignoring them doesn't change the fact they are dead!!
If I just believe then they will all watch over me from up in the clouds...such magic...such an illusion...such a daydream...
Do you really think that they can heal my wounds!?!
There is a thing called reality that magic can't touch!!