Code Geass World History & Geography Speculation

[ordnance11]

Originally Posted by Storm-and-Fire

Well, I came accross a post at livejournal that featured a transcription of stuff written on Suzaku's textbook. It pretty much shows how Brittania came to be.

http://community.livejournal.com/code_geass/40650.html

Huh, Elizabeth Tudor married and had a son.

A note on episode 9...Cornelia said fighting had flared up with the EU at a place called El Alamein. This world's version of WWII is on going then?

[Cal-Reflector]

Originally Posted by LS Eden

And who will become 99th? Schneizel?

I was about to say that! But I forgot his name... yes, Schneizel, whose reign will go down in history as the shortest one ever, for verily the Man under the Mask came along and usurped his throne in Glorious Revolution.

Sorry, apologize for the poetry.

El Alamein? Ugh, Monty overwhelming Rommel with numerical and material superiority again?

[EmagEvil]

Just wondering... Did the Britannians keep slaves? It's common in the history of all empires... But the Elev... I mean Japaneses aren't handle like that it seem...

To reach a inherit list to 98th, the history of Britannia may be very long... Like the assumption to the 16th centuries...

[asaqe]

Well they were kept in general serfdom. But Sunrise has to be careful about attempting direct references to historical attrocities like the holocaust (That will be a no-no for tv).

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by asaqe

Well they were kept in general serfdom. But Sunrise has to be careful about attempting direct references to historical attrocities like the holocaust (That will be a no-no for tv).

Why would there even BE a holocaust? And further, how would it be relevant?
Europe is one big country right now, likely for the sake of self-preservation against the Britannian Empire. There might have been a WWII in their world, but I seriously doubt it is anything like the one we had; Germany, if it even existed, would be sandwiched between Soviet Union and Britannia. While there would most certainly be no war in the Pacific if Britannia held all the lands south of Japan.

[ordnance11]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

Why would there even BE a holocaust? And further, how would it be relevant?
Europe is one big country right now, likely for the sake of self-preservation against the Britannian Empire. There might have been a WWII in their world, but I seriously doubt it is anything like the one we had; Germany, if it even existed, would be sandwiched between Soviet Union and Britannia. While there would most certainly be no war in the Pacific if Britannia held all the lands south of Japan.

Well, given that the Japanese are the majority in numbers, once you give parity in power to the Japanese, they'll regain control of Japan. I hppened during the Mongol dynasty of Japan. So:

Britannia has to rise up to power Japanee administrators who are loyal to them

or

Create Final solution:

The Brtiannia of our world would had used the first option. This one?..who knows.

[LS Eden]

Originally Posted by Cal-Reflector

I was about to say that! But I forgot his name... yes, Schneizel, whose reign will go down in history as the shortest one ever, for verily the Man under the Mask came along and usurped his throne in Glorious Revolution.

Sorry, apologize for the poetry.

El Alamein? Ugh, Monty overwhelming Rommel with numerical and material superiority again?

As much as I would like something like this, it seems to me rather unlikely. Why would the Emperor die?
If Lelouch killed him, he'd take the throne right away, without giving the Schneizel a chance of ruling Britannia. Besides I don't think the Emperor will die without direct confrontation with his son.

Don't you think it'd be pretty lame if the "villain" died way before the final episode?

[bond4154]

Originally Posted by LS Eden

And who will become 99th? Schneizel?

Gundam SEED/SEED Destiny spoiler below. Although it's really just a joke. It won't spoil anything, you just won't get it unless you've seen both.

Spoiler:

Emperor Rau Le Britannia...of LOGOS.

[SoldierOfDarkness]

Some stuff to add on since this is the history thread. From episode 12 since I didn't noticed this here.

"Due to the loss of the Battle of Trafalgar...Queen Elizabeth III found herself surrounded at Edinburgh by revolutionists, with the help of the Britannian Colony America, which is now called..."

So it seems that the Spanish/French maintained naval superiority (Napoleon would've been in control at the time and probably started an invasion of England) and thus forced the British to escape to the new world. Hence, America became the new motherland but that's just a guess.

[TrueKnight]

Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness

So it seems that the Spanish/French maintained naval superiority (Napoleon would've been in control at the time and probably started an invasion of England) and thus forced the British to escape to the new world. Hence, America became the new motherland but that's just a guess.

Good point, but it can also be....

the Britannian Colony in America who helped the revolutionist to start a coup in the first place and thus surrounding the Queen at Edinburgh, resulting in a succesfull coup transferring the monarch authority from the British isles to the American continent.

This is why in the Universe of Code Geass, Britannia is somehow at a cold war with the EU. Because Britannia's existence in the EU has already gone due to the lost at Trafalgar, Nelson screwed big time.

This of course, assuming that the American Revolution in 1776 also didn't take place in the first place, or somehow Britannia manage to surpressed it.

My 2 cents..

[vonLohengramm]

so, if the lost battle of trafalgar led to the loss of british homeland, which is quiet possible, then we can assume that the first thing britannia as a superpower would do, is regain what it has lost. since a unified europe still exists, they might not able to do that, which would mean europe is very powerful as well. maybe this could be some starting point for the late series or 2nd installment.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by vonLohengramm

so, if the lost battle of trafalgar led to the loss of british homeland, which is quiet possible, then we can assume that the first thing britannia as a superpower would do, is regain what it has lost. since a unified europe still exists, they might not able to do that, which would mean europe is very powerful as well. maybe this could be some starting point for the late series or 2nd installment.

Well, it depended on the exact rate the Britannian empire expands.

One factor that may weaken Britannia's capacity to conquer Europe, is their social policy involving colonies.

Anyway, are you sure the united Europe in Code Geass included the British Isles? It is common to talk about "Europe" as "anywhere in Europe except England", so there is no reason why the Motherland was long recovered by the time Ep1 began. (unless you have a in-show map to prove your point, in which case I would agree with you.)

As for Europe not yet being conquered... Well, there may be a reason. We know there is an on-going war between Britannia and EU, but we didn't know for how long. I personally believe Britannia couldn't take over the world as yet because they have captured far too much territory with their Knightmares (since its development) over too short a time. From the way Area 11 was portrayed, a constant military presence is necessary in all conquered areas because well, the Britannians are not pleasant slave Masters. If half your empire is under martial law, your large army would certainly be hard pressed to free up enough troops to take any more land.

[Renegade334]

The latest tidbit in date from the Code Geass universe (the source is the DVD-1 extra where Teacher!Lelouch makes (for a short moment, though...very short) Student!Suzaku revise Britannian history) states that the ATB ("Ascension Throne Britannia" - and not "After the Battle" as some put it) calendar started when Caesar tried to invade Britain but was met by a strong resistance from the local tribes, who elected a super-leader of their own - a king that eventually started the Britannian royal line. If we are to consider that the Britannian resistance appeared during Caesar's first invasion (IIRC it was 55 B.C.), and that the current year in the CG timeline is 2017 ATB, then it'd be 1962AD for the Gregorian calendar?? Wow, I thought we were already above the 2000AD mark...guess I was wrong, but then Caesar might have tried his luck a bit later than in real history.

Although we believed at first that Britannia started diverging from our real life timeline somewhere before 1775 (American revolutionary war), it seems that this country has a far older history than we first assumed. We should now consider that Rome's expansion spree didn't go as planned and the borders' fluctuations over time might have been quite different from the actual ones. Maybe the Hundred Years' War didn't take place...and the religious conflicts might have even not occurred...

God...the entire timeline's been raped. But in a way, I'm glad the staff put more thought into this than at first sight.

[vonLohengramm]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

Well, it depended on the exact rate the Britannian empire expands.

One factor that may weaken Britannia's capacity to conquer Europe, is their social policy involving colonies.

Anyway, are you sure the united Europe in Code Geass included the British Isles? It is common to talk about "Europe" as "anywhere in Europe except England", so there is no reason why the Motherland was long recovered by the time Ep1 began. (unless you have a in-show map to prove your point, in which case I would agree with you.)

As for Europe not yet being conquered... Well, there may be a reason. We know there is an on-going war between Britannia and EU, but we didn't know for how long. I personally believe Britannia couldn't take over the world as yet because they have captured far too much territory with their Knightmares (since its development) over too short a time. From the way Area 11 was portrayed, a constant military presence is necessary in all conquered areas because well, the Britannians are not pleasant slave Masters. If half your empire is under martial law, your large army would certainly be hard pressed to free up enough troops to take any more land.

well, when deciding to conquer something, they´d surely choose to regain their lost territory over conquering new colonies. that means either they are still or again in control over the british islands (which is not very likely, because there are several hints for america being the main part of britannia + the english islands have never been mentioned once in the media or some talk, which indicates nothing important is going on there)
or they are not able to conquer it for whatever reason (which would explain, why there is no talk about it at all). plus, if the (cold) war with the eu was of any importance (which would be the case if they were actually fighting around england), then we would surely have been seeing something from it. atleast some propaganda on the progress.

[SoldierOfDarkness]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

As for Europe not yet being conquered... Well, there may be a reason. We know there is an on-going war between Britannia and EU, but we didn't know for how long. I personally believe Britannia couldn't take over the world as yet because they have captured far too much territory with their Knightmares (since its development) over too short a time. From the way Area 11 was portrayed, a constant military presence is necessary in all conquered areas because well, the Britannians are not pleasant slave Masters. If half your empire is under martial law, your large army would certainly be hard pressed to free up enough troops to take any more land.

I'm not sure about your definition of 'slave masters' considering the fact they still get payed and are allowed to work in the settlements (We even see some well-dressed 11's walking around and they can still gain high status) and that it's very easy to do so. And as Oougi pointed out, life under clovis was not that bad. If they were really slaves, we wouldn't even see any 11's in the settlements or citizenship being given to them for that matter. As Lelouch pointed out, the only reason for resistance is pride.

Mainly because the Britannia empire turns those areas into major areas and assimilates the populace into their empire by offering them citizenship status which obviously would lead to their descendants being full britannians. I would say their plans are quite effective. The transition is tough but eventually the native population will be assimilated into the empire, becoming full citizens, which means they can be taxed and relied on by the empire. Citizenship was one of the methods the Romans used on conquered people and it worked for them very well.

If the Empire is as old as to the days of Julius, then it probably explains why the Empire is so technologically advance. When the Roman Empire collasped, Britannia probably held on strongly and thus, kept their documents and continued developing their technology at a steady rate.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness

Mainly because the Britannia empire turns those areas into major areas and assimilates the populace into their empire by offering them citizenship status which obviously would lead to their descendants being full britannians.

Actually, there is no evidence of that. I know you've mentioned this argument before, but thus far no mention of any Japanese-born "full-Britannians" exist.

It was said that the purist faction wanted to abolish the "honorary Britannian" system. Note that if the "honorary" title was only meant to be for the first generation, it wouldn't be in the system name at all.

Further, if children of honorary Britannians can become full Britannians, I am sure Lelouch would have mention it during his argument with Kallen about the hotdog seller. Quite frankly I have serious doubts that this rule exists.

[Onizuka-GTO]

mmm...i take back my early notions that the timeline diverted at the US Revolution.

I agree, that it most of happened much earlier, after al it only takes ONE break, to change the rest.

I agree that it must of taken sometime during the Holy Roman Empire Era, we can tell that they still retain some version of King Arthur, as the popularity of the name "Lancelot" is wholly due to that myth, it was not even a common name back in those times. The myth which if taken at face value, happened sometime during the Roman invasion/occupation.

If the divert started there, and changed, resulting in the UK Civil War not happenening, and neither the "Act of Union" between Wales, Scotland, Ireland And England.

Without the aid of the other countries, England would of had to face Nepoleans Navy & Army, with roughly less then 1/2 of its fighting strength.

It can be assumed that England were on equal terms with it's neighbouring countries, to allow free trade and safe harbour for their ships.

If the lack of union will also mean the conquest of Ireland never happened, thus Anglophobia in the Irish would not of been at the height it was, and not the horde of them would of travelled to the new colonies, when the Irish Famine which might or might not happen.

The American Colonies would have a majority of loyal citizens. The majority of English troops would be engaged with the French, thus they would not of had the troops to spare to control the eager colonist moving out into more virgin lands, thus not kindling the first steps of the revolution.

Also perhaps this change of history meant that in this world, no SUPER NELSON exist.
without Nelson in command of the fleet, they had no chance.
He was outstanding in every way, up to the point of the fable battle. So for them not to notice him must mean he must of been dead or non-existence.

Either way, alot of things could of happened.

Its dammn interesting to learn more about it!

[Shinoto]

I do find one think extremely funny. Britainna's views and goals are pretty much identical to what Japan was and still partly is today lol.

[Onizuka-GTO]

Originally Posted by Shinoto

I do find one think extremely funny. Britainna's views and goals are pretty much identical to what Japan was and still partly is today lol.

what's that? spread anime,AV that look like high school girls, and advance electronics filled with stuff we don't need but can kill us because we can't read the manuals but we still buy them because they are cool?

[ashlay]

Originally Posted by Onizuka-GTO

what's that? spread anime,AV that look like high school girls, and advance electronics filled with stuff we don't need but can kill us because we can't read the manuals but we still buy them because they are cool?

right wing and far right wing views. (Japan and America seem to be in trending toward a more conservative bent in the political arena nowadays. and eventually it'll move back to the left, the right again, so on and so forth)

but since we're all going to keep making overly simplistic generalizations, and this is about anime, which is less about "right and wrong" and more about "boring and entertaining" when it comes to politics, best that we all just drop it. ^_^