Higurashi Gou - Anime Episode Discussion Thread (OG/Kai spoilers OK)

[Klashikari]

That split of second decision is not only realistic, but also normal for Mion. The situation is extreme and Mion is nothing like a Yakuza except for her title. She may have acted like Oryou's representative but she is merely a figurehead and she never could handle Yakuza stuff to begin with. Not to mention she is 14-16 years old at most. She indeed picked up a revolver during Watadamashi, but that's mostly AFTER she steeled herself to kill people after all the crap that happened the last few days. That's arguably not the same situation where everything was perfectly normal until mere seconds.

From my perspective, not only the air soft gun is unlikely to be used because she uses that mainly for games and stuff, I really doubt she would have the reflex to use it as an actual weapon in such dire circumstances. She isn't a trained shooter to begin with and it makes more sense to move instead of drawing an airsoft gun against someone who was trained using an actual weapon. And I really doubt it would be safe for her to try shooting at him while he is still choking Rika. If she misses, she might do more harm than good.

Finally, Shion and other villagers just died in front of her. You can't expect a teenager to have the take the best decision, hence probably why she tried to reason with him even though some people already died.
Note that it is true for the villagers, and I dare say that I don't see the problem at all. Their immediate reaction is that Ooishi was too drunk at first. Unlike the random thugs around the Angel Mort, people know Ooishi and even if they don't like him, they know he does his job. The fact he is choking Rika is completely unexpected and of course, none of them would expect him to actually come after her life and kill anyone on his path.

Honestly, be it IRL or fiction, I don't see how it is bizarre to have normal people acting like deers in the headlights, especially if the circumstances of such shooting are not part of their daily life whatsoever. I would call it a lapse of judgment only if it happened to people trained/used to that kind of situation such as police officers, soldiers and whatnot.

[Liddo-kun]

ok, I'm dropping out of the argument now. As I don't feel the strong urge to argue this anymore. Just saying that my way of thinking on Higurashi 14, came from seeing muslims in the muslim community near our office.. they always swarmed up immediately if anyone hurt one of their own. Saw it happen three times.. not on the same year, but different years. I can't imagine anyone go near, choke one of their kids, and not get pulverized by the adults in seconds. Thankfully, I'm in good relations with some of them (bought shoes from them), so I don't feel threatened - in fact, they came to help when one of the female employees in our office got too sick to walk, two muslim men put her on a chair and carried to nearby hospital.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

...............

From my perspective, not only the air soft gun is unlikely to be used because she uses that mainly for games and stuff, I really doubt she would have the reflex to use it as an actual weapon in such dire circumstances. She isn't a trained shooter to begin with and it makes more sense to move instead of drawing an airsoft gun against someone who was trained using an actual weapon. And I really doubt it would be safe for her to try shooting at him while he is still choking Rika. If she misses, she might do more harm than good.

Honestly, be it IRL or fiction, I don't see how it is bizarre to have normal people acting like deers in the headlights, especially if the circumstances of such shooting are not part of their daily life whatsoever. I would call it a lapse of judgment only if it happened to people trained/used to that kind of situation such as police officers, soldiers and whatnot.

The problem is, Mion acted even worse than deers in the headlights. She just rushed headlong perfectly into Cloud's field of vision and shooting range. What she did was a stupid suicidal move that didn't result in anything better than getting herself killed for nothing.

I simply don't understand your argument where you said Mion would've done worse/more harm if she backed off a little and try using her brain and aimed her gun at Cloud's eyes and took the shot for distraction. How can that be worse than what happened in this episode where the only survivors are Keichi & Rena? (no thanks to Mion). Even if she missed, the result won't be any worse than what we have right now, but at least Mion would've went out with more dignity.

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by Liddo-kun

ok, I'm dropping out of the argument now. As I don't feel the strong urge to argue this anymore. Just saying that my way of thinking on Higurashi 14, came from seeing muslims in the muslim community near our office..

Besides the very obvious difference in term of context, you are glossing one fundamental part I mentioned: people do not have the same reaction when it comes to someone they know. Ooishi isn't the most popular guy in Hinamizawa but he never used force against others except specific cases for his job. Their very reaction was basically a "is he drunk??", because they would never expect a police officer in the middle of nowhere in Japan to attack one of them, let alone a child, right after a festival. That's completely alien to the point people can't comprehend what the hell happened.

The problem is, Mion acted even worse than deers in the headlights. She just rushed headlong perfectly into Cloud's field of vision and shooting range. What she did was a stupid suicidal move that didn't result in anything better than getting herself killed for nothing.

I simply don't understand your argument where you said Mion would've done worse/more harm if she backed off a little and try using her brain and aimed her gun at Cloud's eyes and took the shot for distraction. How can that be worse than what happened in this episode where the only survivors are Keichi & Rena? (no thanks to Mion). Even if she missed, the result won't be any worse than what we have right now, but at least Mion would've went out with more dignity.

No one is arguing Mion made the best decision. We are arguing the fact her decision makes sense in that context because she is still a teenager who never encountered such situation, never expected it to happen at that point of time and probably witnessed someone death in front of her for the very first time of her life. There is no way a commoner would always calmy think twice and backoff and use their toy gun against an adult who is actually using a real gun. And to make things worse, her friend is struggling in front of her, so the pressure and sense of urgency would most likely take a toll on basically anyone in her shoes (read: same situation with same context so no previous experience, expectation, etc).

What I mean by making things worse is that she could potentially hurt Rika if she misses and hit her eyes or something. Of course, we do know Ooishi was far too gone due to L5 and Mion probably had a hunch things wouldn't go well either way. But the shock and urgency obviously made her try to stop him immediately after he refuses to listen even if it means she will die in the process. To her she had to act, but powerless as she is, she doesn't have much options. It is very reasy to say "hey, she could just do X or Y!" but considering the context, it is beyond unlikely she would kept her wits and take the best decision in such crazy situation.

The opposite is also true: even someone trained enough could take the wrong decision to the extreme. Like how many accidents with US policemen misjudging the situation and killing someone, even the victim in the process, even though they are supposed to handle crimes like this. So expecting a teenager girl to assess the situation perfectly just like that seems really odd to me, moreso that we know higurashi kids are selfless to the point of being reckless in many arcs. So Mion trying to save Rika by dashing towards him instead of taking cover makes sense, moreso if she had the assumption Ooishi was too busy thrashing around with Rika, but even then it is obvious she was taking a gamble and expected to get injured/killed considering what she said to Rena.
Finally, I'm not saying kids in general are dumb to the point they would never be able to deal with that kind of situation, but I really doubt the majority at 14-16 years old would fare any better given the same circumstances. And knowing Mion backstory, she is definitely not the type of girl who would be the quick witted there. Rena would be another story though.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

Besides the very obvious difference in term of context, you are glossing one fundamental part I mentioned: people do not have the same reaction when it comes to someone they know. Ooishi isn't the most popular guy in Hinamizawa but he never used force against others except specific cases for his job. Their very reaction was basically a "is he drunk??", because they would never expect a police officer in the middle of nowhere in Japan to attack one of them, let alone a child, right after a festival. That's completely alien to the point people can't comprehend what the hell happened.

There are moments during this Satoko arc where they showed us Mion giving the stink eye when Cloud appears. I thought it was a build up to something more meaningful and smart, but nope. It didn't build up to anything other than Mion doing something stupid. Such a miss opportunity. In the hands of a better writer, Mion would've done something more meaningful based on her competence.

Originally Posted by Klashikari

No one is arguing Mion made the best decision. We are arguing the fact her decision makes sense in that context because she is still a teenager who never encountered such situation, never expected it to happen at that point of time and probably witnessed someone death in front of her for the very first time of her life. There is no way a commoner would always calmy think twice and backoff and use their toy gun against an adult who is actually using a real gun. And to make things worse, her friend is struggling in front of her, so the pressure and sense of urgency would most likely take a toll on basically anyone in her shoes (read: same situation with same context so no previous experience, expectation, etc).

It's worse. She made the worst decision.

Originally Posted by Klashikari

What I mean by making things worse is that she could potentially hurt Rika if she misses and hit her eyes or something. Of course, we do know Ooishi was far too gone due to L5 and Mion probably had a hunch things wouldn't go well either way. But the shock and urgency obviously made her try to stop him immediately after he refuses to listen even if it means she will die in the process. To her she had to act, but powerless as she is, she doesn't have much options. It is very reasy to say "hey, she could just do X or Y!" but considering the context, it is beyond unlikely she would kept her wits and take the best decision in such crazy situation.
The opposite is also true: even someone trained enough could take the wrong decision to the extreme. Like how many accidents with US policemen misjudging the situation and killing someone, even the victim in the process, even though they are supposed to handle crimes like this. So expecting a teenager girl to assess the situation perfectly just like that seems really odd to me, moreso that we know higurashi kids are selfless to the point of being reckless in many arcs. So Mion trying to save Rika by dashing towards him instead of taking cover makes sense, moreso if she had the assumption Ooishi was too busy thrashing around with Rika, but even then it is obvious she was taking a gamble and expected to get injured/killed considering what she said to Rena.

Rika is about to be gruesomely murdered anyway. It's worth the risk. Also, I don't believe Mion would be such a lousy shot.

Unlike police officers who are always under-pressure to do the right thing based on regulations (unless the said officers are racist assholes), It doesn't take too many brain cells to not try to be suicidal even during a sudden incident. Again, even during a sudden shooting incident, common people know how to duck and get away from a shooter almost on reflex, not dashing to the shooter's direction .

Look at the scene again, it's not like Mion only had a split-second to make a decision. She even had the time to try talk some sense into Cloud. But what did she do afterwards? "Oh nevermind, talking to him is no use. He is too far gone now, sooo... let me just run into his direction and die....haha."

Originally Posted by Klashikari

Finally, I'm not saying kids in general are dumb to the point they would never be able to deal with that kind of situation, but I really doubt the majority at 14-16 years old would fare any better given the same circumstances. And knowing Mion backstory, she is definitely not the type of girl who would be the quick witted there. Rena would be another story though.

See my reply to your first paragraph.

[Klashikari]

Mion doesn't like Ooishi simply because he is ruffling people feathers regarding the "curse". The series established as a fact that Ooishi tends to be extremely persistent when it comes to investigating those cases with a particularly aggressive and/or passive agressive behaviour. This is why he was particularly blunt with Keiichi at the start of Tatarigoroshi and Tataridamashi since Keiichi was uncooperative right from the get go. She never expected Ooishi to go completely crazy and kill people left and right. In fact, no one would have expected that at all since Ooishi never was an issue aside of being persistent about oyashiro's curse murders, hence his "oyashiro's familiar" nickname. He is just an eyesore so to speak, nothing more.

There was absolutely no hint or allusion regarding Ooishi going violent whatsoever in the OG and Gou, be it the anime, manga or VN. That's also the very reason why most of the veterans immediately concluded Ooishi must have been in L5 state if Rena's testimony was correct.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

Mion doesn't like Ooishi simply because he is ruffling people feathers regarding the "curse". The series established as a fact that Ooishi tends to be extremely persistent when it comes to investigating those cases with a particularly aggressive and/or passive agressive behaviour. This is why he was particularly blunt with Keiichi at the start of Tatarigoroshi and Tataridamashi since Keiichi was uncooperative right from the get go. She never expected Ooishi to go completely crazy and kill people left and right. In fact, no one would have expected that at all since Ooishi never was an issue aside of being persistent about oyashiro's curse murders, hence his "oyashiro's familiar" nickname. He is just an eyesore so to speak, nothing more.

There was absolutely no hint or allusion regarding Ooishi going violent whatsoever in the OG and Gou, be it the anime, manga or VN. That's also the very reason why most of the veterans immediately concluded Ooishi must have been in L5 state if Rena's testimony was correct.

Mion never really given Cloud a stink eye or any kind of suspicious gesture meaninglessly in previous Higurashi anime before Gou. So it's strange that they decided to point that out and bothered to animate that aspect now which amounted to nothing for Mion's character at the end of the loop. Again, missed potential & opportunity for the writing & direction.

[EroKing]

NSFW

Warning: Not safe to view at work or school!

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That sums up my reaction to this week's Higurashi. God damn...

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

Mion never really given Cloud a stink eye or any kind of suspicious gesture meaninglessly in previous Higurashi anime before Gou.

Deen fault. They didn't bother animating Keiichi's parents at all, skipped 1-2 swaps between Mion and Shion, completely skipped/streamlined Keiichi's train of thought for Teppei's murder in Tatarigoroshi, etc. One of the more important stuff they butched was that they completely removed Shion's monologue in Meakashi that actually painted her as a tragic girl who is too far gone and pleaded someone to end her before it is too late. She was only a psychotic on the outside but obviously they just banked on the psycho content.
In a nutshell, Gou is trying to fix certain stuff the original messed up and this detail is one of them. That's why some of us could tell "Shion" was actually Mion at the villager vs punk scene in ep6, because only Mion is wary/hostile towards Ooishi when they meet him outside of fun stuff, exactly because he might be too troublesome regarding the curse murders, especially Keiichi is generally out of the loop.

Originally Posted by EroKing

That sums up my reaction to this week's Higurashi. God damn...

At this point, the meta culprit definitely wants Rika to break completely. I personally think L5 Akasaka was the worst kind of hope turning into the deepest despair considering how things went in Minagoroshi and Matsuribayashi.
Given the new victims and the pattern, it is a very methodic and deliberate act of cornering her to the extreme. It was painful to watch.

[ArrowSmith]

Suddenly everyone is L5. Well that escalated quickly.

[Marina2]

Ep.15

Well..... 4 loops in one ep.

Look like this game board is totally rigged and has no rules. It's not even happened at or after the night of Watanagashi Festival anymore. L5 seems to happen on totally random person now.

Akasaka in L5 said "I came to help you" before he killed Rika........damm.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

YouTube

https://youtu.be/Mm6LURIYPBI

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Oh wow, they really blazed through the bad loops like many people suspected. That's one way to speed things up. Makes me wonder if the L5 happened naturally or due to injection done by Tokyo member(s).

Originally Posted by Klashikari

Deen fault. They didn't bother animating Keiichi's parents at all, skipped 1-2 swaps between Mion and Shion, completely skipped/streamlined Keiichi's train of thought for Teppei's murder in Tatarigoroshi, etc. One of the more important stuff they butched was that they completely removed Shion's monologue in Meakashi that actually painted her as a tragic girl who is too far gone and pleaded someone to end her before it is too late. She was only a psychotic on the outside but obviously they just banked on the psycho content.
In a nutshell, Gou is trying to fix certain stuff the original messed up and this detail is one of them. That's why some of us could tell "Shion" was actually Mion at the villager vs punk scene in ep6, because only Mion is wary/hostile towards Ooishi when they meet him outside of fun stuff, exactly because he might be too troublesome regarding the curse murders, especially Keiichi is generally out of the loop.

Eh, maybe DEEN was right in not focusing on certain stuff like Mion's apprehension towards Cloud that will amount to nothing in the end.

Also, the way Mion ordered the police to call the fire department just right after an unexpected explosion this episode is a 180 compared to her stupid self who just ran towards Cloud asking to eat bullets. This episode actually showed Mion's competence that I've been talking about. This kind of flip-flopping random inconsistencies is one of my criticism for Gou's writing & execution.

[Kanon]

Rika thought she had experienced hell before, but it was nothing compared to this. She doesn't have Hanyu for comfort and she can be killed at any time by anyone. The fact she remembers it all this time (thanks a lot, Hanyu) just makes it even worse. This is true despair. I was thinking Keiichi would be the only one not going nuts since he's been consistently remembering stuff from previous loops but even that hope was dashed.

Given that events didn't deviate too much during the first arcs, it seems like the culprit was getting used to his status as a looper and experimenting stuff. And now the culprit has found a method to inconspicuously make anyone they want go L5 and just sit as they watch Rika suffer.

How is Rika even supposed to get out of this without killing herself with the shard? She's on nightmare difficulty. That's assuming that little shard even has enough power to kill her for good. Is this the "logic error" Bernkastel was said to have been stuck in?

[MeoTwister5]

Well goddamn shit tits in a bucket that was brutal...

[Jan-Poo]

At this point I can only think the story will move into the metaworld, as there doesn't really seem to be that much Rika can do in the physical one, and the narration just went on fast forward mode on the latest iterations, with even worse results as the previous.

Other than the fact that pretty much anyone could go L5 and kill Rika, this latest episode didn't really provide anything that could be used to speculate on what's going on.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Speaking of characters going into L5....boy.....the maximum impact of watching Akasaka went crazy and murdered Rika after such a hopeful atmosphere will certainly be lost on new viewers. The intention of that sudden transition is certainly to surprise the old fans while newbies simply won't get it coz they barely knew Akasaka so there's no Investment there.

[erneiz_hyde]

Holy shit man, you can really hear the ahaha.wav playing incessantly in the background.

[Jaden]

Yeah. Satoko culprit? Takano culprit?? Doesn't make sense, doesn't even matter when you're getting owned this badly.

That said, there are still some clues.

That they're going after Rika's soft spots like this, must mean they are also an immortal that knows the whole story. (You know everything Rika went through and you're still doing this? Damn.)

All the different people suddenly going L5, but not immediately killing themselves, and all referring to "parasites". This suggests that the method of attack is something other than what Takano used before (which was psychological attack using the scrapbooks, or injection with the weaponized parasite that killed Tomitake). Although some kind of injection is still the best fit.

Actually, Kimiyoshi was different. He never said "parasite", but instead gave the mythological explanation and offered up Rika as sacrifice.

Akasaka was "saving" Rika from the parasite. Ooishi wanted the truth about the parasites from Rika. Keiichi wanted the cure from Rika. Akane massacred the great families along with Rika, because of the parasite.

From the way they're all driven towards Rika, though with slightly different logic, you can't really explain with just getting an injection while knocked out - there has to be some persuasion at play as well.

[Liddo-kun]

episode 15:

wtf, deranged Akasaka.

with this episode. Feels like Higurashi has turned into torture porn. Poor Rika-chan.

am I evil to laugh at the dead otakus at Angel Mort? I guess the otaku martial arts did not work. lol

[Ayu-ayu]

I have to admit I wasn't as invested in Gou up till now, but the last two episodes got my attention.

Kind of nostalgic seeing some of the old profiles active here on a R07 thread again. I need to backtrack and see if I missed any juicy specula.