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Old Today, 12:01   Link #3181
Blueknight78
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Join Date: Aug 2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magewolf View Post
If they can do full consciousness uploads they have to be able to simulate emotions as well because they are an important part of how we think. If they can not emulate emotions then I doubt they could even get what we would think of as a self aware system out of an upload.

The anti-emotion thing seems to be mostly based on the leadership seeing emotions as "icky" and hard to control as opposed to any technological barrier.
that is the problem, it's too troublesome to do that, that is why they are just aiming to get riddle of "it", and get just the "logical part" of mankind, emotions all the luggage which come with it already showed to troublesome and complicated to control for them, as we saw with the "mind wipe being "fail", that is why is much more simple get riddle of it, this could be the most "logical" and fast choice, they really don't care if they gonna really keep being humans" as long they gonna be able to keep them functional.

Emotions, selfawareness, gender, reproduction and consciousness are "too troublesome" for them to deal them the must simple and best solution is get riddle of it.
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Old Today, 15:01   Link #3182
wissenschaft
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https://www.reddit.com/r/DarlingInTh..._it_cars_cars/

Notice the keychain. This show has some great fanart.
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Old Today, 15:53   Link #3183
Norn
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I didn't touch upon it in my previous comment, but people should really react to signs more. Zero Two discovering Miku's hair becoming gray, Hiro noticing something's off about Zero Two. This show loves to have loved ones brush off things that would not entirely go unnoticed IRL.
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Old Today, 16:08   Link #3184
Gan_HOPE326
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueknight78 View Post
that is the problem, it's too troublesome to do that, that is why they are just aiming to get riddle of "it", and get just the "logical part" of mankind, emotions all the luggage which come with it already showed to troublesome and complicated to control for them, as we saw with the "mind wipe being "fail", that is why is much more simple get riddle of it, this could be the most "logical" and fast choice, they really don't care if they gonna really keep being humans" as long they gonna be able to keep them functional.

Emotions, selfawareness, gender, reproduction and consciousness are "too troublesome" for them to deal them the must simple and best solution is get riddle of it.
We're mixing two levels here.

Number 1: what APE is doing. It's evil, it's stupid, they're a bunch of assholes who hopefully will all be sodomised by Zero Two riding Strelizia with a giant strap-on mounted on front. I think we can all agree on that. Moving on.

Number 2: transhumanism in sci-fi in general. Not just Darling in the FranXX. It's a common trope to associate transhumanism ( = transcending the human body) with villainy of some sort, cold-heartedness etc. DitF is just one such example, focusing on the specifics of gender. Now, since of course there is no such thing in real life, this is just a choice by the writers. "If you remove X, we stop being human" is a very common argument in these settings. Now, of course, if humans were uploaded to machines, they might for example lose their notion of gender, because they wouldn't have sexed bodies any more. Such a human could for example switch between artificial male and female bodies at will. We get a similar situation in Doctor Who, where the Doctor (who isn't a human, but is sentient) can regenerate as both a man and a woman, and thus has a less solid sense of gender than a human being would.

The point is, why should something like that make us "less human"? It would make us differently human, so to say. It would be a change in habits and customs, sure, a radical one, but it would not affect fundamental human dignity. What makes APE despicable isn't that they don't have human bodies any more. It's that they're breeding child soldiers, torturing them and sending them to die. That's their brand of evil shit, and that kind of stuff perfectly normal humans can and in fact do perpetrate even in real life.
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Old Today, 16:37   Link #3185
Blueknight78
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Originally Posted by Gan_HOPE326 View Post
The point is, why should something like that make us "less human"? It would make us differently human, so to say. It would be a change in habits and customs, sure, a radical one, but it would not affect fundamental human dignity. What makes APE despicable isn't that they don't have human bodies any more. It's that they're breeding child soldiers, torturing them and sending them to die. That's their brand of evil shit, and that kind of stuff perfectly normal humans can and in fact do perpetrate even in real life.
And that is the point from a "biologic point you do lose your humanity", because you don't have anymore all the genetic needs to be "classified as a human, it will be a new race/specie, like elvens dwarfs and others fantasy races, no matter how they "look" and act as human, they are not human they are another race and that is the thing, what make us human is not just "culture, or philosophy/ethics, but how your body must be composed to qualify your as "human", i'm not saying which you can't do that if you true want, but take in account which doing that you are really leaving behind your humanity, no matter how much "emotional" or human like you can remain, if you don't have what is needed to qualify as a human then you are not a human and just something else new, like how we evolved from "monkeys" or something like that, what we where in the past during the evolution we can't consider or call them "humans" because the human race really comes after the "homo sapiens", now if we evolve again by like the anime using machines and creating "artificial bodies, they will be not humans anymore no matter how you would like to call yourself or feel yourself "human" you are not.

As i told if we follow that logic them why cats can't be dogs???? if is just a matter of "different view about it or perception??.
It's not just a matter of name, like even if instead of "humans" we are called like "bobs", the problem could be the same and peoples could come and complain why call it bob???, it's just not a nomenclature it was did just for us to know how to call it, but what being human is what being human is our genetic/evolution.
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Old Today, 19:57   Link #3186
Gan_HOPE326
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueknight78 View Post
And that is the point from a "biologic point you do lose your humanity", because you don't have anymore all the genetic needs to be "classified as a human, it will be a new race/specie, like elvens dwarfs and others fantasy races, no matter how they "look" and act as human, they are not human they are another race and that is the thing, what make us human is not just "culture, or philosophy/ethics, but how your body must be composed to qualify your as "human", i'm not saying which you can't do that if you true want, but take in account which doing that you are really leaving behind your humanity, no matter how much "emotional" or human like you can remain, if you don't have what is needed to qualify as a human then you are not a human and just something else new, like how we evolved from "monkeys" or something like that, what we where in the past during the evolution we can't consider or call them "humans" because the human race really comes after the "homo sapiens", now if we evolve again by like the anime using machines and creating "artificial bodies, they will be not humans anymore no matter how you would like to call yourself or feel yourself "human" you are not.

As i told if we follow that logic them why cats can't be dogs???? if is just a matter of "different view about it or perception??.
It's not just a matter of name, like even if instead of "humans" we are called like "bobs", the problem could be the same and peoples could come and complain why call it bob???, it's just not a nomenclature it was did just for us to know how to call it, but what being human is what being human is our genetic/evolution.
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Well, yeah, you could call them "cyborgs" or whatever, ok, consider them a new race, but then you would also have to accept that they still are sentient and have rights and their own dignity. What I'm complaining about is the idea that becoming such a cyborg is associated necessarily with being evil. I don't think it's an evil thing per se, and I don't think it would necessarily make a person evil. APE are evil because they use evil means to pursue their objective, not because the objective itself is evil.

As for the heart stuff, that sounds very shady research. I've never heard of anything like that. Of course if the heart races faster it's at the order of the nervous system, though some work might be done by the spinal chord rather than the brain. If your brain dies you're also declared dead and they can extract your organs, even if your body is still working. The point is that the brain constitutes the essence of the person. If they could swap your brain with someone else's it would correspond to you swapping bodies, effectively. Not understanding everything doesn't mean there's a good chance that part of your personality is in your heart. Your heart is still only a muscle.
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Old Today, 20:18   Link #3187
Blueknight78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gan_HOPE326 View Post
Well, yeah, you could call them "cyborgs" or whatever, ok, consider them a new race, but then you would also have to accept that they still are sentient and have rights and their own dignity. What I'm complaining about is the idea that becoming such a cyborg is associated necessarily with being evil. I don't think it's an evil thing per se, and I don't think it would necessarily make a person evil. APE are evil because they use evil means to pursue their objective, not because the objective itself is evil.
This is another problem, currently we already having problem with "clones" and even machines we already having peoples debating about that, about if we can give the same "human rights" even for clones once they are not true humans and a product cloned from someone else(also taking in account which human cloning still illegal around the wolrd, then the same goes for machines, while for now we can't really give then thye same human rights is being debated exactly that what could be they rights and all bla bla bla.

But personally i could have no problem recognizing then as a sentient living and have rights, but again it must be something which they did on they own desires not something "someone else did fforced on them like what APE is doing.

APE is evil not just because of they "means" but because what they are doing is not what you are "ask for" again, while they want to "create a new life form" it will be getting riddle of what make the peoples "unique" or sentient which is the free will and emotions and that is the problem they don't want just "evolve" or they "idea of evolution" is evil because they want to stripe mankind from what make then unique if was just replace the organic parts for machines one and keep them with all the freewill and emotions ok fine, but they want to strip it off, that is what make them evil, they final goal is evil no matter how you look

Quote:
As for the heart stuff, that sounds very shady research. I've never heard of anything like that. Of course if the heart races faster it's at the order of the nervous system, though some work might be done by the spinal chord rather than the brain. If your brain dies you're also declared dead and they can extract your organs, even if your body is still working. The point is that the brain constitutes the essence of the person. If they could swap your brain with someone else's it would correspond to you swapping bodies, effectively. Not understanding everything doesn't mean there's a good chance that part of your personality is in your heart. Your heart is still only a muscle.
not really, you already hear about "genetic memory???", where parts of you memory or ancestral memory can be passed not only to brains but also others "body parts", well we have a lot of cases with heart transplant where peoples which received hearts from diseased peoples started to act a little like the original heart owner, like peoples which never liked animals like cats or dog after receiving a heart from a person which love them, they started themselfs to like them, for "no reason" like they could not explain why, we have many scientists studing this, the possibility of not only your brain but many parts of your body being able to carry a "little about who you are", not just the brains.
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