Israel, Hamas & the Gaza Strip

[TUndead]

Originally Posted by Irenicus

^Oh, <bleep>. Fine, you are now responsible for the criminal genocides and enslavement inflicted upon the so-called Philistines, original inhabitants of the Eastern coast of the Mediterranean, done for religious and political reasons and if we are to believe your own mythologies also done horribly.

Pay up. Apologize. They came before you, don't they? Why should you people have it when, far worse than the Arabs, who actually weren't taking the land from you but rather from the Romans, or the Ottomans, who conquered it from the Mamluks, your great-great-great-great-ancestors (may be) took it directly from its original owners, possibly.

Spoiler:

...doesn't that sound ridiculous to you? Yes? Then drop it with that argument. "We came first" is a recipe for Balkan flame wars, on the internet by words, on the real world...yeah, the Serbs and Croats and Bosnians and others would have a thing or two to tell.

Also, cue "my friend" issues on the internet. Why should we trust what you say when you're shown to be completely biased for one side? Where is the link to the "news?" Even if a "news" source doesn't have a website like most do these days something as big as that's going to get uploaded on youtube somehow, so why don't you show us where? And really, did the Palestinians want to die as much as you insinuate they do?

Again with that "they" and "us," neither the Israelis nor the Palestinians have clean hands here. Blame on, it's your country, your war, and as you yourself said your sufferings -- we just happen to think you're not ever going to get peace (except for facetious, or if not facetious then bloody racist, "flatten them all" answers) unless you people talk to each other and stop thinking of the other side as evil and inhuman.

u do know that we have a family that we traced back to the start of the first century, and btw I didnt say we didnt made any mistakes of course we did, and i didnt say they want to die i ment that they would agree to die to kill us or inflict some sort of bad thing on us. and if we are talking about taking the land from us its not like they didnt try. In 1947 the united nations had a plan to devide the country between us and them in which they would have gotten most of the country, we agreed they didnt they wanted it all, and when we did founed israel them and 4 more country's atked us and we won also in 1973 they tried again and lost so yea of course we are not perfect far from it but yes i do belive that the operation is more then just

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by TUndead

and by the way let see u live in a city that has been atked for 8 years everyday let see if then u will speek in the same way because most ppl(that are not from world war 2) in modern country's never experienced war in their own country so to give us crap about defending ourself is a little ignorent... and btw I dont blame all the palastinian's only the extemist and the only reason that the inocent get killed is because the hamas defend it self before them using the shalters for ammo insteed of kids and women's and why is that so when we kill them they could show it to the world so you will see how bad we are.

The Palestinians could make a similar "walk a mile in our shoes" argument to you about living under an embargo, with a great big wall that kept them from work or relatives, being chased out by foreign settlers... Does that make you more sympathetic to their rocket launching?

[TUndead]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

The Palestinians could make a similar "walk a mile in our shoes" argument to you about living under an embargo, with a great big wall that kept them from work or relatives, being chased out by foreign settlers... Does that make you more sympathetic to their rocket launching?

well dont forget blowing up in public places but they only did that for 3-4 years so that isnt that bad. and which country exacly during history did they let an enime live right by them atk them and do nothing? and yes i can say with a 100% guarantee that if they didnt atk us at all we wouldnt atk them

[mg1942]

Originally Posted by Shadow Minato

Considering that Israel had launched an attack on the Hamas which resulted in about 30 civilian deaths near an United Nations school, aren't the U.N. going to do something to intervene? Unlike the Hamas who uses home-made rockets, the Israeli military have advanced weaponry and how did that attack resulted near a non-Hamas infrastructure? No matter how just the Israeli government claims, their actions proves to be questionable. The ones they had killed mostly aren't Hamas, but everyday civilians. Seems problematic..

Do you mean this school?

Spoiler for :

How many Palestinian people died in just a week of Israelite attacks?

Over six hundred. Over six fucking hundred. Most of them innocent civilians.

How many Israelites died in the same week?

Four. Four soldiers. And by their own fire.

Wanna know why Gaza casualties are disproportionately high?

Spoiler for Simple hamas tactics:

It's a simple tactic that's giving Hamas artificial support and sympathy.

[LithiumHelios]

Begs the question 'Why haven't the Palestinian people done much more to curb the blatent terrorism against Israel?'

It's hard to provide out and out sympathy when Hamas has, for many years now, indiscriminantly bombarded Israel with mortars/rockets. Doesn't condone or condemn the actions of Israel but should Israel really just sit back letting Hamas fire rockets at civilians? The area needs much more internal 'policing' before any serious discussions towards peace can make any progress.

Well, in my view...

[DarkShadow24]

How many Palestinian people died in just a week of Israelite attacks?

Over six hundred. Over six fucking hundred. Most of them innocent civilians.

How many Israelites died in the same week?

Four. Four soldiers. And by their own fire.

OMG u don't even know what you're talking about!
i wonder how many israelis have died in terrorist attacks until now, huh?
u got now clue how bad the situation has been in Israel because of all the Katyusha rockets and stuff like that- well I do, i got a family living there.

so do me a favor and don't talk if u don't have something really clever to say coz right now your understanding is as low as the floor.

[mg1942]

Props to IDF for (still) perfecting surgical strikes and intelligence gathering to minimize collateral damage. This is something that US have yet to master and they still have more to learn from IDF.

Some people may say that casualties are disproportionately high for Gazans... well that's because Hamas (terrorist) Organization perfected the art of using human shields to win artificial support and symphaty in case they get bombed.

[iLney]

Originally Posted by mg1942

Wanna know why Gaza casualties are disproportionately high?

Spoiler for Simple hamas tactics:

It's a simple tactic that's giving Hamas artificial support and sympathy.

Interesting picture. But you see that the cradle on either side would eat bullets eventually right?

[Aquillion]

The thing is, though, that just because terrorists are using innocent victims as human shields does not give you the right to dismiss those innocents as collateral damage. If there was a terrorist incident here in the US, do you think our police could just blow up a city block where the terrorists were hiding? Do you think the police could open fire in a crowd to hit a terrorist, and later excuse their actions by saying it's the terrorist's fault for running into a crowd in the first place? If a terrorist hid on your block, would you be fine with the military bombing your house into the ground and killing your family to get the bad guy? If their later explanation was just that it was the terrorist's fault for hiding in your house, and they have no responsibility, do you really think that would suffice?

I have some sympathy for Israel, since their current situation has no easy answer. But the fact that it's horrible for a terrorist to use human shields doesn't make it any less horrible to simply dismiss those human shields as collateral damage.

[DarkShadow24]

Originally Posted by Aquillion

The thing is, though, that just because terrorists are using innocent victims as human shields does not give you the right to dismiss those innocents as collateral damage. If there was a terrorist incident here in the US, do you think our police could just blow up a city block where the terrorists were hiding? Do you think the police could open fire in a crowd to hit a terrorist, and later excuse their actions by saying it's the terrorist's fault for running into a crowd in the first place? If a terrorist hid on your block, would you be fine with the military bombing your house into the ground and killing your family to get the bad guy? If their later explanation was just that it was the terrorist's fault for hiding in your house, and they have no responsibility, do you really think that would suffice?

I have some sympathy for Israel, since their current situation has no easy answer. But the fact that it's horrible for a terrorist to use human shields doesn't make it any less horrible to simply dismiss those human shields as collateral damage.

that's so bullshit!
US didn't hurt Iraqian innocents during the war there...not at all
why u ppl cant get it?
Israel is doing the right and the best thing it can do for the first time!!!
so stop writing all this bullshit!
just to remind you that the palestinians voted in a democrticly way the Hamas to rule Gaza- they are not so naive, they are well aware the Hamas is a terror organization wishes to destroy Israel so they must acknowledge the consequences of their actions...

[mg1942]

Originally Posted by DarkShadow24

that's so bullshit!
US didn't hurt Iraqian innocents during the war there...not at all
why u ppl cant get it?

ahem We still have more to learn from IDF.

[TUndead]

Originally Posted by DarkShadow24

that's so bullshit!
US didn't hurt Iraqian innocents during the war there...not at all
why u ppl cant get it?
Israel is doing the right and the best thing it can do for the first time!!!
so stop writing all this bullshit!
just to remind you that the palestinians voted in a democrticly way the Hamas to rule Gaza- they are not so naive, they are well aware the Hamas is a terror organization wishes to destroy Israel so they must acknowledge the consequences of their actions...

u r so extreme tough I can agree with ur point yes they r using inocent ppl as shields of course i understand ur point(Aquillion) but we cant just sit and do nothing, we dont want to hit inocent ppl but we cant jusg do nothing so we had no choise

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by Aquillion

The thing is, though, that just because terrorists are using innocent victims as human shields does not give you the right to dismiss those innocents as collateral damage. If there was a terrorist incident here in the US, do you think our police could just blow up a city block where the terrorists were hiding? Do you think the police could open fire in a crowd to hit a terrorist, and later excuse their actions by saying it's the terrorist's fault for running into a crowd in the first place? If a terrorist hid on your block, would you be fine with the military bombing your house into the ground and killing your family to get the bad guy? If their later explanation was just that it was the terrorist's fault for hiding in your house, and they have no responsibility, do you really think that would suffice?

I have some sympathy for Israel, since their current situation has no easy answer. But the fact that it's horrible for a terrorist to use human shields doesn't make it any less horrible to simply dismiss those human shields as collateral damage.

israel got 2 choice, retaliate or not retaliate. they don't have a 3rd choice and not retaliate means a quick political death to whoever is in charge. So that not a real choice as well.

Palestians do have a choice. They can choose to do nothing and become human shields for Hamas and human colleteral damage in media reports or they can stop being Human shield and not let Hamas fire rockets form thier homes. if Hamas is not firing rockets form where the oridinary people are then the oridinary people won't become colleteral damage when israel retaliate.

[Thingle]

I'm on the Israelis. When it comes to a war of civilizations, go with the side that is secular and has the technology. I have nothing against Arabs though, but I think that they're horribly outclassed materially and culturally by the Jews today. Morals don't matter.


And only stupid folks intentionally bait these, or those who disregard civilian (their own) casualties.

Spoiler:

So palestinians' argument is moot. Hamas don't care about their people. They want them killed by Israelis for P.R.

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by Thingle

I'm on the Israelis. When it comes to a war of civilizations, go with the side that is secular and has the technology. I have nothing against Arabs though, but I think that they're horribly outclassed materially and culturally by the Jews today. Morals don't matter.

Israel pwns

unfortunately the israelis are not that secular. The Unltr-orthodox wing can give any muslim fanatic a run for thier soul on who is more fanatic about their religion. the more i read about the ultra-orthodox, the more i think Israel will have to decided one of these days wether they are going too be a Secular-democracy or a therocy and the ultra-orthodox are going blow thier top if Israel choose to a secular democracy.

[Thingle]

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^

unfortunately the israelis are not that secular. The Unltr-orthodox wing can give any muslim fanatic a run for thier soul on who is more fanatic about their religion. the more i read about the ultra-orthodox, the more i think Israel will have to decided one of these days wether they are going too be a Secular-democracy or a therocy and the ultra-orthodox are going blow thier top if Israel choose to a secular democracy.

Thing is, it's just a wing. Hamas is explicitly islamist and you won't see such in Israel. Likud maybe zionist, but they're not Judaist (for lack of the term). And besides, they are by no means a theocracy.

[yezhanquan]

@Xellos: I think what Israel now needs to ponder over is whether to continue as a Jewish state, or a state where Jews are merely a majority. Given demographic trends, they'll have to start finding a new national anthem very quickly. Israel has struggled between secularism and religion since its modern founding. Heck, the modern founding has pretty deep religious roots.

[Thingle]

I hope the UN realize that wars are of only 2 kinds: Total war or No war. None of this humanitarian crisis BS...or this pre-occupation with surgical strikes to "avoid innocents". Thinking too much about collateral damage distracts a nation's war effort and lessens their offensive ability.

About the daily 3 hour break? It's a disgrace. So unnatural of war. Damn politics getting in the way! Who knows how many rockets get smuggled within those 3 hours.

[yezhanquan]

Since WWII, total war is not the way to go. It utterly exhausts both sides, not to mention other crap along with it.

[Thingle]

Originally Posted by yezhanquan

It utterly exhausts both sides, not to mention other crap along with it.

They knew it and still they started it. Now, let one side surrender first before the medicines come in.