2010-05-13, 03:36 | Link #9901 |
Dea ex Kakera
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sea of Fragments
|
I guess I'll throw in my own opinion here. I think it might be more useful to look for correspondences between the adults and the stakes based on the stakes' personalities, rather than what sin they represent. It would be more in keeping with the idea that Ronove and Virgilia provide character development for Genji and Kumasawa.
Lucifer: Krauss
Having written it all out, now I wonder if the age ordering actually lines up completely. Based on the dates on the umineco.info timeline, it seems to work out if you just switch Eva with Kyrie, and there are some points that fit better that way. But then there's Beelzebub's competition with Mammon, so I'm not sure.
__________________
|
2010-05-13, 05:22 | Link #9902 |
The Death!
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Purgatorio
|
So I was looking at episode one again and looked at the order of deaths from the standpoint of the ranking system and who died up the last twilight. Jessica was the highest ranking Ushiromiya left alive during the period when Natsuhi was killed by the gun. Is it possible for Natsuhi to be the accomplice? I mean I know the red says that she is no murderer but does that prevent her from being an accomplice? I mean she could be conspiring with the killer so that in Natsuhi's mind Jessica could become the next head. That letter that Natsuhi received probably wasn't about the man from 19 years ago but a threat to Natsuhi about their agreement. Also she could be the person who had placed the letter on the table. Battler's back was turned to the portrait during the moments when Natsuhi placed the tuna on the table, she was also the one to notice it and make an extremely big deal about it. Another thing I find extremely suspicious is the blatant fact Kinzo was already dead. Why didn't she tell everyone about Kinzo's status when her husband had died. Was it Krauss that was her main motivation behind keeping Kinzo's status a secret? Or was it part of a plan to make Jessica the head all along? I mean the timing is too perfect when Kinzo's burnt body is found.
The killer had killed in an order that would make Jessica the next head without arousing suspicions. I bet this was a deal the killer and Natsuhi made. But at the end the Killer betrayed Natsuhi with the contents of that latter in the parlor and killer her when she was lured out. The letter was also taken so what was written in it probably had something to do with the deal. It could have also potentially revealed the identity of the killer if I can say that.
__________________
|
2010-05-13, 07:49 | Link #9904 | ||
Back off, I'm a scientist
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In a badly written story.
|
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
|
||
2010-05-13, 07:57 | Link #9905 | |
Back off, I'm a scientist
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In a badly written story.
|
Quote:
Therefore she was at least involved in a plan which required using Kinzo's body at some point, and that one plan has been around for a year, all the time since Kinzo originally died. Whether that plan included murdering anyone or not and whether Natsuhi actually expected anyone to die is not quite clear.
__________________
|
|
2010-05-13, 08:04 | Link #9906 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
|
Quote:
|
|
2010-05-13, 08:19 | Link #9907 | |
Back off, I'm a scientist
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In a badly written story.
|
Quote:
__________________
|
|
2010-05-13, 08:30 | Link #9908 | |
The Death!
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Purgatorio
|
Quote:
The only reason I thought of the murder was for the headship was due to the fact the highest ranked Ushiromiyas were killed early on, and the highest remaining Ushiromiya was in fact Jessica.
__________________
|
|
2010-05-13, 08:36 | Link #9909 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
|
Quote:
It's sort of like the whole "blame Natsuhi" act from Episode 5. Since she was the first to go to bed early, she has the weakest alibi. If Ryuukishi is trying to draw parallels between the question Episode and it's corresponding core Episode, I'd think there would be less reasons to suspect Natsuhi. Notable though, this actually makes Genji very suspicious for the burning, since he's the only one with access to Kinzo's room when it's locked. |
|
2010-05-13, 08:46 | Link #9910 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
|
Quote:
Actually, if there are no adults to inherit the headship, I'm pretty sure the headship would be inherited by George, the oldest male of the Ushiromiya family. Then again, I'm not sure what Japan's inheritance laws are of if they would have any effect on this, but with how partriarch-orientated the Ushiromiya are, this seems more likely to me. Last edited by Raiza Sunozaki; 2010-05-13 at 09:09. Reason: Episode 1, not 5... |
|
2010-05-13, 09:42 | Link #9911 |
The Death!
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Purgatorio
|
I have to agree the 1st is the easiest one to fake and who knows it could be Krauss that faked his death for all we know. The only thing we can be sure of from Natsuhi is her delusions, aside from that we don't know anything it can go either way with her.
The Ushiromiya's ranking system is pretty strict what with the adults split into two groups during dinner and all, I think Jessica said she was the next in line. In Episode 1 she said she didn't want it. So I think the Ushiromiyas stick to the Rankings. But technically it would be Jessica's husband who would become the next head.
__________________
|
2010-05-13, 10:24 | Link #9912 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
|
Quote:
|
|
2010-05-13, 10:35 | Link #9913 | |
Back off, I'm a scientist
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In a badly written story.
|
Quote:
To sidestep this, the transfer of 'headship', that is, control and legal ownership of joint family property, has to go outside the inheritance laws if the descendants are to receive anything. A natural way is to attach these property rights to the title of 'family head', which should actually be transferable during life, or at least magically jump to the next in line through some kind of legal fiction at the moment the current one is dead, bypassing the concept of property inheritance.
__________________
|
|
2010-05-13, 13:22 | Link #9914 | |
Maelstorm-Fenrir
|
Quote:
Then again have you seen that scene in the manga, there teeth are all smashed and everything. Another question I have for the 1st twlight is; in both the anime and the manga the bodies are mostly neatly against walls or boxes in the front so you see them right away; but why is Shannon's in the back being blocked by stuff? All the others you can see upon openning the shutter, so why is it only Shannon's that is placed in the back behind a stack of boxes? Last edited by Laserworm; 2010-05-15 at 07:52. |
|
2010-05-13, 13:48 | Link #9915 |
Senior Member
|
It's mentioned in the original VN that Shannon is out of direct view. Only Hideyoshi and Kanon see her corpse. (Also, Episode 3, first twilight, Shannon's corpse is behind a couch and Hideyoshi is the one who looks at it, though in the anime she's in sitting in a chair, and several people examine her closely.)
__________________
Last edited by rogerpepitone; 2010-05-13 at 14:05. |
2010-05-13, 15:17 | Link #9916 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: In the Meta- World... on Virgillia's bed.
|
I think witness accounts still account for a person's alibi. The reason being is that in order to accuse of someone faking their death, you have to accuse the people who have seen his or her corpse of being accomplices.
|
2010-05-13, 15:48 | Link #9918 | ||
Endless Witch-Doctor
Join Date: Mar 2010
|
Quote:
Quote:
Also, this might not be worth anything, but the order you listed is Krauss, Kyrie, Natsuhi, Rudolf, Eva, Hideyoshi, Rosa. It has been speculated before that maybe Krauss and Kyrie are Battler's parents. That would pair Natsuhi and Rudolf together. Eva and Hideyoshi are next to each other on the list, and Rosa doesn't have a spouse. And as much as I like the idea of parents = stakes, there's a huge setback in EP2. The adults (except Rosa) should all be dead at the first twilight, so what does it mean when the stakes are killing people after that? Is it possible for the adults to still be alive, or should it be interpreted as something else? |
||
2010-05-13, 16:47 | Link #9919 |
Maelstorm-Fenrir
|
In some cases it is possible, but in others like Shannon's corpse in ep1, she only has half a head, that is impossible to fake, therefore if she isn't actually dead the people who see her corpse must be accomplices or lying for their own reasons.
Last edited by Laserworm; 2010-05-15 at 07:52. |
Thread Tools | |
|
|