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Old 2021-05-23, 23:56   Link #641
Kakurin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor View Post
The wall and Alba's defenses has been one of the factors that source-readers (back on past pages) hyped & used to stress how futile it would be for the 86 to think of rebelling against the Alba in this thread. After such discussion, of course I consider the wall to be important and question why they didn't show it in great detail.
The series is not about the 86 rebelling, so why should it be so important to be shown in detail? And nobody "hyped" it as the ultimate defense. You did it rather yourself by thinking that way. It has always been mentioned as just one piece in the whole framework to keep the 86 from mounting a rebellion. There is the constant surveillance using the Para-Raid, the logistics being completely dependent on the Alba, the lack of perspective even when rebelling and finally the minefield and fortifications of the so-called wall.
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Old 2021-05-24, 00:33   Link #642
Obelisk ze Tormentor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kakurin View Post
The series is not about the 86 rebelling, so why should it be so important to be shown in detail? And nobody "hyped" it as the ultimate defense.
First, this system that screw 86 over has been going on since 9+ years before the start of the story. If there was no form of big rebellion during those times, the show really need to explain why (the earlier the better). That's coz it's human nature to rebel against discrimination & persecution. If your setting lack that aspect from the 86 side, you need to explain why and how as the groundwork. If the wall is a big part of the reasons, then present it in detail how it works.

Second, I never said the wall being the "ultimate defense". Don't put words in my mouth. I already described it as "one of the factors" in my comment. And yes, I remember source readers pretty much hyped it up. The way they (maybe you included) described it is pretty much impossible for the 86 to breach it due to various reasons (paraphrasing). That can be categorized as "hyping it up".
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Old 2021-05-24, 00:57   Link #643
Yazi88
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Rebelling won't make any difference cause it'll mean the Legion wiping them out far far faster. Especially given what they do to killed bodies.

They are too busy fighting off Legion there, plus these are mostly young kids that have only known fighting. Their weapons aren't going to get them far in a rebellion where the Alba control the manufacturing and supplies for their crappy Juggernauts. Only thing 86 can do with the few mechanics they have is to make do with the situation at hand. Plus, even getting organized for a big so called rebellion is a very complicated task.

You are nitpicking a bit too much here. I would wait until both parts of the anime has ended to see if your questions are answered or not. Otherwise your speculations is getting a bit out of control for something that has yet to happen. This is just volume 1 of the novel that is being adapted in the anime here, out of 9 volumes released so far. Plenty of time to address other issues in the anime for future episodes in this season and the 13 eps of season 2.
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Old 2021-05-24, 01:11   Link #644
serenade_beta
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Finally some proper fanservice. Except I think red-hair's butt was a bit too flat.

I know the protagonist is supposed to be an ojou-sama that doesn't know the real world-thing, but dang, when she screams more than several lines in one scene, it starts to get piercingly annoying. Not the content, just the sound.

For a moment, I thought that this episode didn't really move the story forward, but then I realized that it technically did reveal that the empire is more eeevvviilll. Except it has been made so obvious this entire time, the "more" part wasn't really "more".
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Old 2021-05-24, 01:14   Link #645
Obelisk ze Tormentor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yazi88 View Post
Rebelling won't make any difference cause it'll mean the Legion wiping them out far far faster. Especially given what they do to killed bodies.
If you push people & beat them bad enough, sometimes they won't mind going down as long as they take you down with them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yazi88 View Post
They are too busy fighting off Legion there, plus these are mostly young kids that have only known fighting. Their weapons aren't going to get them far in a rebellion where the Alba control the manufacturing and supplies for their crappy Juggernauts. Only thing 86 can do with the few mechanics they have is to make do with the situation at hand. Plus, even getting organized for a big so called rebellion is a very complicated task.
Understanding that, the Albas still want to send the Spearhead to slaughter due to possibility of rebellion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yazi88 View Post
You are nitpicking a bit too much here. I would wait until both parts of the anime has ended to see if your questions are answered or not. Otherwise your speculations is getting a bit out of control for something that has yet to happen. This is just volume 1 of the novel that is being adapted in the anime here, out of 9 volumes released so far. Plenty of time to address other issues in the anime for future episodes in this season and the 13 eps of season 2.
Like I said to HtwoN on previous page: I don't speculate. I respond to source-readers hyping up the wall & Alba's outer defenses.
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Old 2021-05-24, 01:18   Link #646
Yazi88
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The things will the wall do get addressed, just wait for it.
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Old 2021-05-24, 02:00   Link #647
Eater of All
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Maybe this is one area that stretching a volume to a whole cour hurts the anime a bit. You can read the volume and get your answers in 1-2 hours, but a 3-month long anime necessarily means people will discuss and ask questions. Suspending your disbelief waiting for an explanation takes effort over time. I don't buy anime-only viewers asking for all the answers after 1-2 episodes, but I equally don't buy source readers promising much needed explanations that may only come in episode 10 (or not ever in the anime).

Otherwise, I do like the slow and deliberate pacing of the anime so far. It would be better if the series composer rearranged things a bit so the story logic is more solid sooner.
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Old 2021-05-24, 02:15   Link #648
Yazi88
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It is definitely a odd change of pace given anime adaptations tend to blaze thru the content of the novel pretty quick.

While here they are bidding their time and adding a few new aspects to it. Pretty much all the major points of volume 1 is being shown here.

I'm not the biggest fan of it going thru things pretty slowly in this regard. Although I believe the 2nd season will be faster paced and it will very likely combine volume 2 and 3 for it. Maybe even 4 given the pacing.
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Old 2021-05-24, 04:24   Link #649
Arya
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eater of All View Post
Otherwise, I do like the slow and deliberate pacing of the anime so far. It would be better if the series composer rearranged things a bit so the story logic is more solid sooner.
I think the same, I like the pace, but they should have made a better series composition, putting here and there hints and details to give more solidity to the whole structure of the story.
I mean, on paper reading here, some points make sense, like, they are the survivors among survivors, that spent so much time doing it, surviving, that they lost the insurgency flame a newcomer could still harbor. In the same vein showing how some rebels ended in blood and in vain, as much as escaping, would have added up to this whole resigned status.
I know we see only Lena's POV here, still reading that little extract shared few posts before mine about Shin gave me the measure of how the novel gives a lot of details to make it way more rounded.

Anyways, let's wait for the Legion knocking at Alba's wall with their high-hypersonic missiles.
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Old 2021-05-24, 04:38   Link #650
sierra117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arya View Post
I think the same, I like the pace, but they should have made a better series composition, putting here and there hints and details to give more solidity to the whole structure of the story.
I mean, on paper reading here, some points make sense, like, they are the survivors among survivors, that spent so much time doing it, surviving, that they lost the insurgency flame a newcomer could still harbor. In the same vein showing how some rebels ended in blood and in vain, as much as escaping, would have added up to this whole resigned status.
I know we see only Lena's POV here, still reading that little extract shared few posts before mine about Shin gave me the measure of how the novel gives a lot of details to make it way more rounded.

Anyways, let's wait for the Legion knocking at Alba's wall with their high-hypersonic missiles.
Spoiler tag please
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Old 2021-05-24, 04:40   Link #651
Kakurin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eater of All View Post
Maybe this is one area that stretching a volume to a whole cour hurts the anime a bit.
While I'm personally fine with the pace since I can fill in the blanks as a novel reader I can see how for anime-only viewers the pace is a tad too slow.

I personally would have preferred 13x2 with the first cour covering the first two volumes in a 8-5 split and the second cour the next two volumes in a 6-7 or 5-8 split again. Also since I think it would be better to end at volume 4 than volume 3. Can see how a volume 3 ending would be somewhat unsatisfactory. Not necessarily from a storytelling perspective, but from a character interaction perspective.
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Old 2021-05-24, 06:28   Link #652
gecd
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Maybe this series would work better as 3 hours long movie
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Old 2021-05-24, 07:48   Link #653
Arya
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sierra117 View Post
Spoiler tag please
mmm, sorry, I don't know the source material, so I can't say what you are referring to. If you mean the knocking at the walls part, well it was just speculation. If you mean the previous part it was just generic examples on how they could have rounded the storytelling.
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Old 2021-05-24, 08:04   Link #654
Applehell
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yazi88 View Post
Rebelling won't make any difference cause it'll mean the Legion wiping them out far far faster. Especially given what they do to killed bodies.

They are too busy fighting off Legion there, plus these are mostly young kids that have only known fighting. Their weapons aren't going to get them far in a rebellion where the Alba control the manufacturing and supplies for their crappy Juggernauts. Only thing 86 can do with the few mechanics they have is to make do with the situation at hand. Plus, even getting organized for a big so called rebellion is a very complicated task.

You are nitpicking a bit too much here. I would wait until both parts of the anime has ended to see if your questions are answered or not. Otherwise your speculations is getting a bit out of control for something that has yet to happen. This is just volume 1 of the novel that is being adapted in the anime here, out of 9 volumes released so far. Plenty of time to address other issues in the anime for future episodes in this season and the 13 eps of season 2.
Yeah, rebelling here is pretty pointless if your doing for survival because right the current patchwork structure is only sort of resistance against the Leigon. The 86 could let republic fall but they would still be first ones killed cause the entire country is closed off and surround. Beyond that tho, as this showed, each of the member have more complicated reasons for fighting for republic even if couldn't care most of it anymore.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kakurin View Post
While I'm personally fine with the pace since I can fill in the blanks as a novel reader I can see how for anime-only viewers the pace is a tad too slow.

I personally would have preferred 13x2 with the first cour covering the first two volumes in a 8-5 split and the second cour the next two volumes in a 6-7 or 5-8 split again. Also since I think it would be better to end at volume 4 than volume 3. Can see how a volume 3 ending would be somewhat unsatisfactory. Not necessarily from a storytelling perspective, but from a character interaction perspective.
I think the anime is planning on using vol 1's epilogue as its stopping which would a great season finale imo. Even better if this doesn't do well enough to get S2.
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Old 2021-05-24, 08:19   Link #655
sierra117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Applehell View Post
Yeah, rebelling here is pretty pointless if your doing for survival because right the current patchwork structure is only sort of resistance against the Leigon. The 86 could let republic fall but they would still be first ones killed cause the entire country is closed off and surround. Beyond that tho, as this showed, each of the member have more complicated reasons for fighting for republic even if couldn't care most of it anymore.



I think the anime is planning on using vol 1's epilogue as its stopping which would a great season finale imo. Even better if this doesn't do well enough to get S2.
We already have 2nd cour coming in October tho
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Old 2021-05-24, 08:27   Link #656
Applehell
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Oh I know that, I mean vol 1's epilogue will be moved to the 2nd because vol 2 & 3 build up to it.
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Old 2021-05-24, 09:58   Link #657
Frontier
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Quote:
Originally Posted by serenade_beta View Post
I know the protagonist is supposed to be an ojou-sama that doesn't know the real world-thing, but dang, when she screams more than several lines in one scene, it starts to get piercingly annoying. Not the content, just the sound.
I like Lena's reaction noises .
Quote:
For a moment, I thought that this episode didn't really move the story forward, but then I realized that it technically did reveal that the empire is more eeevvviilll. Except it has been made so obvious this entire time, the "more" part wasn't really "more".
It just really needed to kick in for poor Lena
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kakurin View Post
While I'm personally fine with the pace since I can fill in the blanks as a novel reader I can see how for anime-only viewers the pace is a tad too slow.

I personally would have preferred 13x2 with the first cour covering the first two volumes in a 8-5 split and the second cour the next two volumes in a 6-7 or 5-8 split again. Also since I think it would be better to end at volume 4 than volume 3. Can see how a volume 3 ending would be somewhat unsatisfactory. Not necessarily from a storytelling perspective, but from a character interaction perspective.
That's funny, that's my exact thought regarding why I think volume 4 would be an unsatisfactory ending point .
Quote:
Originally Posted by Applehell View Post
I think the anime is planning on using vol 1's epilogue as its stopping which would a great season finale imo. Even better if this doesn't do well enough to get S2.
I hope that's not the case .
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Old 2021-05-24, 11:49   Link #658
Cosmic Eagle
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More importantly, I still don't understand the Alba's attitudes towards the 86s.

If they literally see them as animals the way someone would see a monkey or at best a neanderthal then why would you trust them enough to fight as your soldiers? You wouldn't send a cow or pig out to fight your wars. Not even lions and wolves.

Yet from the way the rookie Handler in ep 2 responded, he either really believes they are humanoid pigs or he really personally hates them. The latter is even more puzzling because none of the Alba seem to hold personal enmity towards the 86 at all. And if they did, how did the relationship sour that much in 9 years?

This part really needs to be explained.


Why they don't rebel is obvious since only the most broken would do that. And in these conditions, survival comes first
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Old 2021-05-24, 12:44   Link #659
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Well ever heard about explosive carrying dolphins?

Either way, they don't really have choice as part of their propaganda is how Republic created superior "unmanned drones" compared to Empire and its not like they can put Alba citizens into cockpit and hope their families wouldn't notice...

And honestly if you can let pig's fight instead of you, who wouldn't take that offer? I certainly would (well if it were really actual pigs of course), because I have quite aversion towards body harm and death happening to me. Plus this way noone have to feel guilty.

And lastly ever heard about The Stanford prison experiment. It's pretty easy to make such happen especially if intensional social tempering is involved.
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Last edited by Tenzen12; 2021-05-24 at 12:56.
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Old 2021-05-24, 20:47   Link #660
Cosmic Eagle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenzen12 View Post
Well ever heard about explosive carrying dolphins?

Either way, they don't really have choice as part of their propaganda is how Republic created superior "unmanned drones" compared to Empire and its not like they can put Alba citizens into cockpit and hope their families wouldn't notice...

And honestly if you can let pig's fight instead of you, who wouldn't take that offer? I certainly would (well if it were really actual pigs of course), because I have quite aversion towards body harm and death happening to me. Plus this way noone have to feel guilty.

And lastly ever heard about The Stanford prison experiment. It's pretty easy to make such happen especially if intensional social tempering is involved.

Standford prison experiment, the guards were consumed by the role they played. Nevertheless, it was still a role. Here it is more akin to how modern people take for granted that homo sapiens > homo erectus for example. How do you even educate a whole population in that in 9 years?

And no if I seriously saw some life form as a pig, I wouldn't trust it on a battlefield given that a pig is well....inept as a controlled soldier. Since the 86s are obviously competent, those in the know are obviously caught in some form of double think.....ie "well, they are a non-human species who happen to be very good at organized warfare" Which goes back to the main question, how do you indoctrinate an entire nation to view one of its subpopulations as that in 9 years?

You see all the wars and tribe vs tribe IRL? all of them are emotional, yup, even Nazi eugenics. There's full of reference how Jews, Slavs etc are "less human" but which still acknowledges indirectly as a result the fact they are human and one has to condition oneself to treat them otherwise.

But here it's apparently treated as an academic fact, given from how natural the dude's reaction was when he's regurgitating some textbook line that 86s are non-human. So how do you even get that level of indoctrination in a mere 9 years.....Plenty of people walking around would still remember what an 86 is
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