(L) Rokujouma no Shinryakusha!? （六畳間の侵略者！？）[Light Novel]

[dragon1412]

Originally Posted by arsl31

Then again thank you for the comment. anything else? I might wanna take this translating stuff as a hobby. I have a rough-as-a-shark-skin translation of volume 7 (in which the anime ended) but that state is still far from edible, or should I say still poisonous in the eyes. Better than nothing.

Considering how did I do it, well I spent Hours every page correcting all the characters scanned with ABBYY before [machine] translating them. I always check EVERY SINGLE CHARACTER if it matches the one in the scans. If it doesn't, the work begins, in which I search that abominable character (which is usually a jōyō kanji) in that goddamn wikipedia list of 2,136. Well the good part is I am LEARNING. The bad part? ALL THE REST. But that doesn't stop me from translating.

I have checked guhehe translations, and seems like the one translating this has gone to hibernate from translations and doubted if he will ever wake up.

like i said, you need some basics, since your work is quite thorough but you are learning anyway, you should 1st find some example of sentences with multiple grammar and supportive clause since this is the main MTL-destroyer. To summarize, learn to differentiate the main subject and action to supportive subject and action, this should cost you about 1 month.... no, actually learn Hiragana first. and if possible, be very careful towards any type of emotion expressing sentences, since in Japanese, there are many grammar indicate the same meaning, but different degree. You also don't need to be too literal word to words as well, but since you are learning anyway, being literal might be better.

[arsl31]

Originally Posted by dragon1412

like i said, you need some basics, since your work is quite thorough but you are learning anyway, you should 1st find some example of sentences with multiple grammar and supportive clause since this is the main MTL-destroyer. To summarize, learn to differentiate the main subject and action to supportive subject and action, this should cost you about 1 month.... no, actually learn Hiragana first. and if possible, be very careful towards any type of emotion expressing sentences, since in Japanese, there are many grammar indicate the same meaning, but different degree. You also don't need to be too literal word to words as well, but since you are learning anyway, being literal might be better.

Thank you very much for the tips. This will help me a lot in the future.

[dracorax]

So now hope someone else will tl rokujouma.

[wAzure]

Originally Posted by arsl31

Hi. I'm a newbie here.I just watched the anime and got interested in the story and got a little bit curious about the plot so browsed animesuki forums and ended up mindblown about the large area the story covers. The problem is, I hate summaries. And I got another problem. I can't read Japanese.

Since the light novel translation in bakatsuki is dead,I searched for many ways to read this and finally got ideas of doing these things.

To summarize what I have done, I'm intending to [machine] translate the novel by myself. here's a sample

http://www.mediafire.com/download/tr...nSSPHarumi.pdf

This is a prototype of mine. It took 5 days for me to finish this one, and I mean it, my translation is not so good that its like a fine sandpaper. If you got any suggestions just PM me.

I'm going to be quite honest here. This really is a bad idea.

Machine translations simply do not work. No matter how good the edition, unless the one doing it is actually comparing the work with the original writing and does have at least some decent Japanese knowledge to correct the mistakes, you won’t be getting anywhere.

It's a waste of time and a bad approach to the language, as well as getting something translated. You would be better off learning the actual language so you can properly translate it someday.

Your sample proves this. It really is far away from what could be considered as a proper translation.

[arsl31]

Originally Posted by wAzure

I'm going to be quite honest here. This really is a bad idea.

Machine translations simply do not work. No matter how good the edition, unless the one doing it is actually comparing the work with the original writing and does have at least some decent Japanese knowledge to correct the mistakes, you won’t be getting anywhere.

It's a waste of time and a bad approach to the language, as well as getting something translated. You would be better off learning the actual language so you can properly translate it someday.

Your sample proves this. It really is far away from what could be considered as a proper translation.

I know. What you say is all true. I know that this work is a piece of garbage compared to the other translators who actually know both languages. But I did this for my own sake. I would not bother translating this in the first place if I know how to read kana. For now, its the only way possible for me to read and understand the book (because the translator in guhehehe trans is currently in hiatus). I just want to share this crappy work of mine to everyone else who can't read and won't even want to learn japanese just to read this. Well, don't worry. I just started taking lessons on the actual language. I am not gonna rely on the stupid MTLs forever. (honestly it is a pain in the ass but hey, I'm still gaining XP!) so, I'm just gonna keep this to myself and level up my speech skill till I can get the gist of what a proper translation is (this will take a long time). Then I'm gonna consult you guys again for opinions. Thanks for the honest comment.

[Kami_Sama]

So I've been studying Japanese for a year, I know half of the Joyo Kanji and my understanding of grammar isnt bad yet not great. I'm going to attempt to translate volume two. Don't expect speed as this is my first time translating and so far all i've managed is two pages. Just know that this series isnt dead yet xD . Now if a more seasoned translator wishes to do it in my stead then by all means do it. Dont hate me if i fail

[Nagakun]

I believe that as long as we can have the basic understanding of the series, that is more than enough. If the book is out on your nearby (or far away) bookstore, and you got that spare cash to buy it, it good to support the author since this book is interesting. (=x= |||)

[dragon1412]

Originally Posted by Kami_Sama

So I've been studying Japanese for a year, I know half of the Joyo Kanji and my understanding of grammar isnt bad yet not great. I'm going to attempt to translate volume two. Don't expect speed as this is my first time translating and so far all i've managed is two pages. Just know that this series isnt dead yet xD . Now if a more seasoned translator wishes to do it in my stead then by all means do it. Dont hate me if i fail

sorry but i'll be blunt here, 1 years is no way possible for anyone to translate in any type of language.

Assuming your learning speed is extremely fast with you being major in Japanese. Leaving aside N3, which is supposed to be the minimum requirement for grammars to start understand any type of Japanese's literature, and i'm talking about simple one . To reach N4, which people call playing test since the degree is pretty much useless, you would need an average of 600-750 hours of study, you would spend 1 - 2 hours each days to learn to reach that N4 level in 1 years, and this is already assuming you have a very fast learning speed, the only case where this is possible is that you are an Asian who have an easier time with Kanji and majoring Japanese. Now to reach the level where the absolute minimum grammar is acquired, i never seen anyone able to read any type of Japanese paragraph until reaching 2 years mark, and even then, their reading speed is slow and make many mistakes. Leaving Japanese which is famous for their difficulty, do you seen anyone claim to be a translator in any type of language with only 1 year of learning ???, sorry but if you said that you only knew about 500 Kanjis but still have a N3, no one would object but the Kanji problem can always solved with dictionary, the grammars problem.... nah, it's impossible. and even if you knew over 1000 Kanjis, do you guarantee you knew half of their combination and Vocabulary ???

[techblade]

Reading can help you to learn some proper grammar right? I think translating will help him learn if anything even if its bad at start and he learns to correct himself. Its not like he is getting paid for trying to translate something anyway why so strict.

[Nagakun]

Just relax for a bit, I agree that one can't go showing off about able to talk Japanese so easily in just one years..

Even I struggling with the basic 26 myself..

In anyways, grammar mistake can be a problem, but if one can translate the bit of it to let other have just a understanding, it is also workable in some ways (=w= ||)

So let go back to this LN series.. where did we stop at? the blue knight arc?

[dragon1412]

Originally Posted by techblade

Reading can help you to learn some proper grammar right? I think translating will help him learn if anything even if its bad at start and he learns to correct himself. Its not like he is getting paid for trying to translate something anyway why so strict.

hmmm... how should i say this .... you see, in Japanese, when you reach higher level, you will see a lot of grammar that use normal Kanji or word, or variations of multiple grammars together with some small part cut off and connect. If he face the former, 95% that he wouldn't be able to even realized time and try translating word to word since that kind of Grammar only encounter much later, about the end of the 2nd year you would see the 1st one of them. If it's the latter, then there's no helping since it would require context and a good deal of practice. And this is not mentioning Keigo, shortened expression, slang..... The biggest problem here is not that he can improve over translating, but whether he even realized that he make a mistake in the 1st place, the problem here is lies in the fact that he doesn't even know whether it's a new grammar or not. With 1 year of knowledge, leaving aside descriptive and expression sentences, i doubt that he is able to handle simple conversation grammar perfectly.

[Hiyono]

While I respect dragon's appreciation for quality, I would interject that everyone starts somewhere, and if translators all waited on mastery before they began, they'd also never start.* With that said, you will want someone to read over your work. In my opinion, translating while having an active TLC explain your mistakes is a pretty great way to learn, much in the way that associating with natives and having them constantly correct your mistakes is the best way to learn to speak.

* There are, of course, different schools of thought on that, but my opinion has always been that LNs are hardly masterworks of literature to begin with.

[Nagakun]

well.. just slowly learn and improve along the way =w=||

[dragon1412]

Originally Posted by Nandesuto

While I respect dragon's appreciation for quality, I would interject that everyone starts somewhere, and if translators all waited on mastery before they began, they'd also never start.* With that said, you will want someone to read over your work. In my opinion, translating while having an active TLC explain your mistakes is a pretty great way to learn, much in the way that associating with natives and having them constantly correct your mistakes is the best way to learn to speak.

* There are, of course, different schools of thought on that, but my opinion has always been that LNs are hardly masterworks of literature to begin with.

no most of all i agree with you, but the problem here is exactly with TLC process, most of the time i feel that TLC is more tiring than TL itself and finding someone willing to TLC isn't exactly that easy. So he should be at least at a level where mistakes is limited to a certain degree where it's don't take much time on TLC, but only 1 year is too soon for me.

[Nagakun]

I think having people to do some try on and to see how other can produce. I know 1 year is kind of too soon, but giving a chance for them to improve is another thing. Well, unless he or she is unable to improve even that is another =x=||

Anyway, can we get back this series topic again? =x=||

[Kami_Sama]

Originally Posted by dragon1412

no most of all i agree with you, but the problem here is exactly with TLC process, most of the time i feel that TLC is more tiring than TL itself and finding someone willing to TLC isn't exactly that easy. So he should be at least at a level where mistakes is limited to a certain degree where it's don't take much time on TLC, but only 1 year is too soon for me.

While I agree with everything you've said the reason I'm going to try to translate it is because it isnt being translated. Its mainly for me to both learn and enjoy the series. I'm just going to give it to anyone else that wants it, they'll go in knowing that I'm not an accomplished translator. As for how good I am at japanese, I know i'm not at the level where i can translate properly because i cant read it properly. But unless someone else picks it up and translates it I'm going to at least attempt it because I want to read it and because I consider it part of my studies. Thank you for advice and without a doubt I shouldnt be a translator yet and my work will probably show that but If its between Never reading it or at least trying to translate it myself, I'd at least want to try. Because like i said, i really want to read this series xD


Edit: you asked how much I study Japanese? I havent missed a day since January 23rd of 2014 and I've never done less than 2 hours a day. I'm not bragging or saying that because of that I'm learning faster than others, i just want you to know i have made it my number one priority whenever i have free time and ever since going to Japan last year its been one of my most treasured and important daily activities. Also WaniKani.com Is unforgiving, missing even a day would be a horror story for my Kanji learning as the SRS reviews would eat me alive and feed my soul to the Crabigator. Same with my Aniki Decks. The day i miss a day of reviews is the day my life goes to hell. xD

[dragon1412]

like i said, the problem here is finding someone that's willing to TLC it for you, checking your translation, go to the original source, checking again, it's ok if's it's some simple mistake, but if you misrecognized 1 grammar then that mean every single sentences with that grammar will have problem. And this is if there are someone willing to TLC, if you want realistic example, go to Sayonara Ryuusei thread, the guy who do that have 1 year of experience like you, check his version and then go checking travelingbum retranslated version of chapter 1. You will see that the so called translation with 1 year of experience look like a rewrite of the story and at that point, retranslate is easier than TLC. And of course, if you are willing to actually google the grammar instead of relying on MTL and found someone TLC for you, then go for it.

EDIT: like i said, i don't care about your Kanji, even my teacher who is a professor still use dictionary, the problem here is Grammar. i doubt that you have learned 1 /3 of the conditional grammar and any type of probability grammar. There is also the problem since this is a novel, not a manga, the grammar will without a doubt be much harder as well, there is a reason why many people translated manga before switching to LN.

[Kami_Sama]

Originally Posted by dragon1412

like i said, the problem here is finding someone that's willing to TLC it for you, checking your translation, go to the original source, checking again, it's ok if's it's some simple mistake, but if you misrecognized 1 grammar then that mean every single sentences with that grammar will have problem. And this is if there are someone willing to TLC, if you want realistic example, go to Sayonara Ryuusei thread, the guy who do that have 1 year of experience like you, check his version and then go checking travelingbum retranslated version of chapter 1. You will see that the so called translation with 1 year of experience look like a rewrite of the story and at that point, retranslate is easier than TLC. And of course, if you are willing to actually google the grammar instead of relying on MTL and found someone TLC for you, then go for it.

EDIT: like i said, i don't care about your Kanji, even my teacher who is a professor still use dictionary, the problem here is Grammar. i doubt that you have learned 1 /3 of the conditional grammar and any type of probability grammar. There is also the problem since this is a novel, not a manga, the grammar will without a doubt be much harder as well, there is a reason why many people translated manga before switching to LN.

Yeah my grammar is lacking without a doubt, I use imabi right now but your right about my comprehension of it. Alright well, in that case I'll just focus on learning grammar for the next 6months instead of Translating, and if no one's picked it up by then i'll give it another shot. We'll tbh I'll probably still try to translate it, although very slowly but since the concern is it being mistranslated heavily I wont post it anywhere. xD I've been following this thread since it was on like page 3 so I've really been wanting to read this series so even if its not now I'll try translating it eventually if no one picks it up. Who knows maybe I'll get really lucky and Yen press will pick it up for me like they did with Hataraku. xD

[dragon1412]

i have nothing against translating while learning in general, but you are attempting a novel translation which language level is on a completely different level compare to manga, it's too high of a bar for you at the moment. You should try to read Manga in Japanese first before taking shot at a novel.

[Kami_Sama]

Originally Posted by dragon1412

i have nothing against translating while learning in general, but you are attempting a novel translation which language level is on a completely different level compare to manga, it's too high of a bar for you at the moment. You should try to read Manga in Japanese first before taking shot at a novel.

Yeah I know your just giving advice and i appreciate it. Yeah i know its above me but like i said this is a series i've been dying to read since the spoilers. As for reading raw manga I do that on a daily basis. http://raw.senmanga.com/ After my lessons every day I go on that site and try to read any of the new releases or I'll just jump to something like Kingdom and see if i can read the latest chapter then compare what i read to the already translated version.