Hyouka - Episode 10 Discussion / Poll

[rulfo]

EP 9

Spoiler for pics of scripts and other stuffs:

Scratch that, I misread that and it seems that they were only suggesting that the film will have 2 killers. It seems that houngou wasn't present during that meeting.

[FlareKnight]

Will say I'm glad that I haven't run into an Irisu type and if I do then I'm running for the hills .

In the end a big point may be how she contrasts with Chitanda. Just a lot nicer to deal with someone who puts everything out in the open. Sure she may be pushy, but at least you aren't left with wondering about hidden motivations. Can't help thinking if Houtarou is going to get dragged into things I'd rather have Chitanda do it .

Not that I think Irisu is a bad person and that she doesn't get results, but just not a fan of how she gets there. It may be effective to use people like that for the sake of a result, but I'd certainly resent being someone who was used. Have to think that she looked into this whole thing before reaching out to the Classics Club so it's hard to believe she also missed the rope problem. Not to mention it was probably brought up by Houtarou himself when he explained why each theory failed. In that case the question would be why she'd not mention it? Maybe it just as simple as she wanted a plausible theory. She doesn't need what Hongou's true intentions were, just what people would accept and what would allow the movie to be a success. She can probably accept a few holes especially since the rope wasn't shown in the movie, no one watching will miss it. Be surprised if she wanted Houtarou to goof, but rather it doesn't matter if he does long as its good enough. In a sense another contrast to Chitanda who doesn't just want plausible, it has to feel right.

Will say on a personal note though that I just don't like her . Well done in voicework, visually, etc, but just don't like her .

Suppose it's not a bad approach to introduce a character who contrasts against a main character like Chitanda. May in the end be important for Houtarou's growth as a person. Dealing with that type of person and also with his own feelings after this is wrapped up. If his self-esteem wasn't so low then it might have been harder to be manipulated into cooperating. Will also be good to learn that regardless of his special characteristics he doesn't have to solve these mysteries on his own.

[Shadow5YA]

The big question still remains: why didn't they ask Hongou? Being sick is one thing, but unless she was severely ill and out cold, they still could have asked him how the story was supposed to play out. It's been at least two days.

[Hyper]

A lot of good points about Irisu character. As I said myself, I don't really like her character. Not as in it's not fun to watch (she is), but in the sense that if she were a real person. While I can say that she is a good leader, she is not a great one. One can only pressure people to do stuff for him/her for so long before they are fed up. There will be no loyalty to a leader like Irisu. They can only order, but not "asking for a favor" from their subordinate.

Of course, for all intent and purpose, what Irisu did here is fine. She's not looking for any help beyond this movie anyway. It would be more fun if Houtarou refused her though, at least IMO.

[zero7090]

Originally Posted by Shadow5YA

The big question still remains: why didn't they ask Hongou? Being sick is one thing, but unless she was severely ill and out cold, they still could have asked him how the story was supposed to play out. It's been at least two days.

anime logic if you are new here

btw i still cant find the evidence but my guess

Spoiler for spoiler:

the boy with the glasses is the killer.

he used to rope to jump from the 2nd floor to outside of the building, go to the right side, get in by the windows (which was show open in the ep 8). He kill the boy then take the key of that room, lock it. The key inside the room is actually the killer room key. His hand was stained with victim's blood thus he acted like he want to lift victim body so he can overwrite the stain

[TimeSkip]

Why didn't she ask EBA?

Both Mazui's and Commie's releases have this question at the end of every episode in this arc, so I assume it's in raws as well. This question hasn't been answered.

[Dharma]

Originally Posted by Flower

Hmm ... I don't think that Irisu would have manipulated Oreki that way because she bore ill will towards him, she does not have a "motive of ill will" in that sense. Her "motive" seems to be purely "functional", that is - getting an end result.

Motive... She does have permission and blessing of his sister, so she probably acts with good intent in mind (in addition to being "functional" of course).

[winhlp32]

Episode 10:

- They look much more approachable in real life than they were in the movie.

[Gohan78]

Well, I for one was absolutely smitten with Irisu-senpai in this episode.
She has a commanding presence, an air of authority befitting of the nickname "The Empress".
She also has a great figure and DAT VOICE (another excellent performance from Yukana).
She may seem manipulative but do you really think that Houtaro would have accepted the request otherwise?

I think that Houtaro really needed the motivational speech he got from Irisu. He has unfounded self-esteem issues and probably nobody in the Classics Club would have ever approached him with this honesty.

I don't think that Irisu has ulterior motives. She just wanted to get a proper solution for the mistery, even if it wasn't what Hongou planned. The big question that I expect to be answered next week is why couldn't they just ask to Hongou who the culprit was.

[Hyper]

Originally Posted by Gohan78

I think that Houtaro really needed the motivational speech he got from Irisu. He has unfounded self-esteem issues and probably nobody in the Classics Club would have ever approached him with this honesty.

I understand where you're coming from, but I wouldn't say he need that kind of speech. It would be nice if he success, but if he failed, the guilt that will be place on him doesn't worth it. If helping out Houtarou is the concern of course (which in this case it isn't).
Her speech is a polite and indirect way to say "how dare you don't use your ability to help us. You can do it, so you don't have excuse not to." Once again, I think what he need is how Chitanda did it in episode 3: "I entrusted you with my most precious memory, because I believe you can help me." She show her trust by open all her card first, then ask for help. Not the other way around (Irisu, I assume, is still hiding some information).

I started to feel like I'm a hater though, so please don't get me wrong; Irisu is a fun character to watch and I appreciate her present in the story. She gives new varieties and dynamic to the story. She is just not my kind of girl I think.

[j4c06]

Poor Houtarou. I wonder how he managed to disprove the rope theory and forget about the rope seconds later when he explains his own solution. Looks like nobody called him "special" before, this word surely hit the spot...

[AC-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by TimeSkip

Why didn't she ask EBA?

Both Mazui's and Commie's releases have this question at the end of every episode in this arc, so I assume it's in raws as well. This question hasn't been answered.

Its not a qustion but the arc titile.

[Qilin]

Quite honestly, there really isn't much point in the mystery now from a pragmatic standpoint. I mean, the problem was already solved satisfactorily, whether or not the solution was the one the author intended. The important thing is that they found an interesting enough conclusion that was consistent with the existing footage.

Whatever the case, this arc is interesting enough for me to not bother too much about it.

[ronelm2000]

I think that Why didn't she ask EBA? is an actual reference to Hyouka...

"Why didn't she ask Hongou?"

That's what's on my mind. If Irisu was all that manipulative, then she could have asked Hongou how the movie ended but she didn't. Instead, she had to ask Oreki for a satisfying ending. Also, given Irisu's knowledge, why didn't she tell Oreki about the rope? Either she really didn't know... or she didn't want to.

Hence my theory on this arc would go as follows:
First, the murder.
It is true that the cameraman could have done it using the Master Key, but the problem lies on a few things... First, the motive: ignorance is NOT usually the real killer of a story such as this. Usually, students do not have such guts to actually kill a person especially one who seems to actually look a bit calm for once. Second, the rope, which Hongou specifically specified (yes it was intentional) to be enough to carry a person without breaking, is another weird game breaker in the usual entree of mystery. Ropes, as sturdy as they are, can be used for many things... moving things... moving people... moving a fine amount of junk that can weigh a ton...? Third, the blood... and the script. Why is it specified that the amount of blood was minimal compared to what it should be? And why is it that in the script, it says that his arm was only "severely wounded"? Who gets to decide that his arm gets cut off? How DOES one's arm get cut off? By a knife, correct? But who has the knife? Who HAS a knife? Where does one GET a knife? Hmm... I wonder where's the kitchen in that room?

Anyway, I haven't got a solid conclusion yet. But it suggests that everything was an accident by the one who went to the left side, and used the cameraman as a scapegoat.

[OceanBlue]

Originally Posted by Qilin

Quite honestly, there really isn't much point in the mystery now from a pragmatic standpoint. I mean, the problem was already solved satisfactorily, whether or not the solution was the one the author intended. The important thing is that they found an interesting enough conclusion that was consistent with the existing footage.

Whatever the case, this arc is interesting enough for me to not bother too much about it.

This is why I haven't posted. I kinda do have a lot of thoughts and feelings about the episode, particularly about how it plays with establishing and breaking down ideas (Irisu building up Oreki's confidence for it to probably be broken down, Oreki as the super genius being questioned, how necessary the rest of the club is), but as far as speculation and the mystery goes, I don't really have anything . At this point I'm just waiting for the next episode to see where everything goes.

I really want to see how they handle Oreki being wrong. I thought this was a great episode. Satoshi's and Irisu's bits in the beginning was handled well, and the twist at the end sent small chills down my spine.

[rulfo]

Originally Posted by Shadow5YA

The big question still remains: why didn't they ask Hongou? Being sick is one thing, but unless she was severely ill and out cold, they still could have asked him how the story was supposed to play out. It's been at least two days.

Maybe Houngou has grown SICK of doing it. It seems that this project was forced down Houngou's throat and disagreements snapped the connection and Houngou doesn't want anything to do with it anymore.

[-Sho-]

Finally something interesting since ep 5.
Maybe Chitanda will tell more about Irisu as she knew her since childhood.
I also think that Irisu must hates Hongou , she's jealous or hurt because Hongou is the "Genius" and Irisu the "Substitute player". People saying that "I was just lucky" must irritate her so that's why she wants to screw up all. She wants her glory & prove to Hongou that she's amazing(using Oreki's theory)

[FlareKnight]

Originally Posted by rulfo

Maybe Houngou has grown SICK of doing it. It seems that this project was forced down Houngou's throat and disagreements snapped the connection and Houngou doesn't want anything to do with it anymore.

That sounds entirely possible. I mean even if she was literally sick she could still say who the killer was and let them figure out the story from there. But doe sound like she had no choice in anything. Forced to write, forced to write their topic, and forced to make it a movie. I think seeing their first draft of the movie could have made her snap. She put all that effort into writing something she didn't even want to and they still screwed up so many elements of it. Wouldn't be surprised if she just said "I'm done, finish it yourselves."

[linkinstreet]

Originally Posted by ronelm2000

I think that Why didn't she ask EBA? is an actual reference to Hyouka...

More like it's a reference to a certain famous Christie novel, and the solution was from another of her famous novel where the narrator was the killer all along

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Why_Did...y_Ask_Evans%3F
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mur..._Roger_Ackroyd

I kinda expected the Roger Acroyd ending, but I never thought they'd actually use it, because, heck, it's cheesy

[whitecloud]

well... from what i get is remember ep.8 the anonymous text that say sorry that she cant continue...so it seems hongou cant finish the story maybe thanks to so many ad-lib and alteration made in the movie or personal problem and ask irisu to solve the ending for her...thats why irisu dont particularly mind even if the rope not used because as long as the ending is "good" enough all is well...typical goverment worker attitude...