Sword Art Online - Episode 14 Discussion / Poll

[Vsin]

Spoiler for Episode 14 with comparisons to the novel:

Comparison Meh, it's the SAO ending. It works a lot better in the novel because you mentally create your own perfect pacing. The only way this might have worked better is if episodes had a time slot longer than 30 mins, because there's basically no way to cut this cleanly without artificially elongating a subsequent episode for no rasin.

The fight vs. Heathcliff actually pisses me off because of the way they executed the Dual Skill. Kirito is SUPPOSED to have created a setup for it first, and then he craps his pants because Heathcliff managed to block the first hit. Instead, we have him lose his cool, throw out his super randomly, and then continue to have a rage face until the animation ends.

The deletion of Aincrad was slightly disappointing, but I chalk that one up to the Anime just not matching the idea I had in my head. Although I was expecting a closer shot than 3-4 Aincrads above Aincrad.

Also, they probably should've had Kirito...sorry, Kazuto stumble a bit after he got up. He's just a wee bit too healthy for "I just woke up after 2 years in an effective coma".

From an Anime-only standpoint...this episode honestly felt like the ending to Gundam AGE - it ticks off the points on its checklist, but doesn't really do much else. I mean, there's nothing objectively wrong, especially when you consider that it's 100% faithful to the source material, but the pacing felt kinda off and it still reeks of the fact that it was the author's very first shot at publishing a novel.

[orpheus2]

Woah, look at the criticisms. But I understand that. After all, it seemed to end too soon. For now, let's wait and see where they go from here.

Originally Posted by Aphrah

I sort of want to hear it.

Hmm.. something along the lines of:

After Heathcliff hit Asuna, and her HP hit 0, Klein, not having used the resurrection crystal, managed to break free from the paralysis due to his strong feelings for Kirito, which allowed him to use the crystal to revive Asuna?

LOL.

[Dr. Casey]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I really did find this episode an enjoyable watch. And I loved the twist of Heathcliff being Kayaba. I also felt that the Kayaba reveal was very well-executed, and the Heathcliff vs. Kirito fight was pretty good. Finally, I found it pretty funny how much Kayaba looks and stands like a certain Mad Scientisto!

But SAO just pulls too many incredible conveniences for me to truly get swept up in all the emotions of the show. Either one of them alone I'd let slide, but the sequence of them was just too much for me.

And what really capped it off for me was Kirito slowly struggling out of his hospital bed, ripping off a couple cords, and oh-so-very slowly and dramatically walking down a completely empty (yet brilliantly well-cleaned and pristine!) hospital corridor. Here I should mention that my mom's a recently retired nurse, so the sheer absurdity of this scene truly hit home for me (there's no way a hospital with these sorts of facilities would let a patient just walk off like that for that long).

So I honestly started cracking up at the final scene, as it just felt so cheesily overdone to me, like a western movie taking several minutes to show its hero slowly ride off into the sunset.

Ohh, that makes sense. I should've known that Triple_R would never have a bad opinion! I can definitely see where you're coming from there, and why the westernish closing moments could seem overdone. I personally was on enough of a euphoric rush after the overall awesomeness of the episode that I didn't even really notice, they could have had a swelling of the violin every two seconds and I probably wouldn't have cared.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

But these aren't magical knights. And they don't have superpowers. These are normal kids playing a video game. I'm sorry, shounen fans, but while I can kind of see sheer force of will enabling the likes of Ichigo Kurosaki to take it to the next level and beat Aizen, I have a much bigger problem with someone completely breaking a very mathematically and scientifically-based MMO.

Totally understandable, that, though I do wonder if maybe this plot point will be explained later down the road; someone might have taken over Yui's role after she died and changed the rules of the gaming world, or something along those lines. I do think that the mechanisms Yui governed over are involved somehow.

But yeah, I very much enjoyed this episode. Yuuki Asuna... that's a nice name. The fact that she was born in 2007 is also nice, since I have a very soft spot for that year... Kirito's 2008 doesn't quite have the same effect, since that year started out good but got progressively worse as it went along (leading into the craptastic 2009). Kayaba's motives were interesting, too, wanting to create a true alternate world. I guess that's what happens when you love RPGs too much... damn, Kabaya, I've loved RPGs since I was 11 years old, but you took things a bit far there. And this whole scandal has probably shaken the public's trust in virtual reality worlds for years if not decades, so you actually singlehandedly set back the spread of 'fantasy worlds' quite a bit. Good job, dumbnuts.

[orpheus2]

Originally Posted by Dr. Casey

But yeah, I very much enjoyed this episode. Yuuki Asuna... that's a nice name. The fact that she was born in 2007 is also nice, since I have a very soft spot for that year... Kirito's 2008 doesn't quite have the same effect, since that year started out good but got progressively worse as it went along (leading into the craptastic 2009). Kayaba's motives were interesting, too, wanting to create a true alternate world. I guess that's what happens when you love RPGs too much... damn, Kabaya, I've loved RPGs since I was 11 years old, but you took things a bit far there. And this whole scandal has probably shaken the public's trust in virtual reality worlds for years if not decades, so you actually singlehandedly set back the spread of 'fantasy worlds' quite a bit. Good job, dumbnuts.

Agreed. There are better ways to go about this. Although, I question Kayaba's sanity at this point since he went that far. He may have already lost it when he was creating SAO.

[Peanutbutter]

If there's anything I have to say for this episode, it's that they are too faithful to the source material.

Bringing something from an LN to an anime well takes a lot of work. Us anime viewers should be able to feel some drama or emotions in it. Last episode was done pretty well in that.

This one felt like a simple transition from scene 1, scene 2, scene 3 etc that is rather nonchalant and doesn't really makes you feel for the characters. (Though I like Klein's delivery)

Okay, bring on the next part. Can we still call it SAO now that it has ended?

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by orpheus2

Although, I question Kayaba's sanity at this point since he went that far. He may have already lost it when he was creating SAO.

Well, yeah -- I think he was crazy from the get-go. I think they're suggesting that he's a sort of super-eccentric genius who became obsessed with his own world and just happened to have the ability to turn it into a (virtual) reality. Trapping all the players may have seemed like a good at a time because it made his world more realistic (it forced people to actually live with him in his world), but he doesn't seem to see it as malice, more like a "natural consequence". The parts of brain that regulate ethics/morality seem to be malfunctioning (though he does seem to still have some sort of twisted concept of fairness, a point that was brought up yet again in this episode). I guess his apple doesn't fall that far from the tree as far as evil geniuses go, but he's still an interesting character.

Originally Posted by Peanutbutter

This one felt like a simple transition from scene 1, scene 2, scene 3 etc that is rather nonchalant and doesn't really makes you feel for the characters. (Though I like Klein's delivery)

That's sort of interesting; I didn't feel that way myself, but perhaps Episode 13 was still really fresh in my mind, so I connected the two. I wonder if the two episodes might work better when viewed one after the other?

[Netto Azure]

Originally Posted by Aphrah

I sort of want to hear it.

Hmm.. something along the lines of:

After Heathcliff hit Asuna, and her HP hit 0, Klein, not having used the resurrection crystal, managed to break free from the paralysis due to his strong feelings for Kirito, which allowed him to use the crystal to revive Asuna?

To be quite honest I did think this is what happened when I first picked up SAO.

Well mostly Klein using the item to revive Kirito, but w/e.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Aphrah

I sort of want to hear it.

Hmm.. something along the lines of:

After Heathcliff hit Asuna, and her HP hit 0, Klein, not having used the resurrection crystal, managed to break free from the paralysis due to his strong feelings for Kirito, which allowed him to use the crystal to revive Asuna?

Bingo!

And then Asuna used a special healing crystal of her own that she was keeping in secret supply after the Kuradeel Incident had left her shaken up.

So Kirito was ultimately saved by the two people who loved him the most.

I take it back - This ending wasn't cheesy. It was sheer poetry in motion. Lovely ending.

Originally Posted by Dr. Casey

Ohh, that makes sense. I should've known that Triple_R would never have a bad opinion!

Sometimes I get ahead of myself with my opinions, but I'm usually careful with franchises as popular as this one is, lol.

I can definitely see where you're coming from there, and why the westernish closing moments could seem overdone. I personally was on enough of a euphoric rush after the overall awesomeness of the episode that I didn't even really notice, they could have had a swelling of the violin every two seconds and I probably wouldn't have cared.

Well, I will say that Kajura brought out her A-game for the BGM here, and the seiyu work was fantastic, and that did help a lot. I do think that Kirito/Asuna is an awesome anime romance, one of the best of all-time.

But yeah, I very much enjoyed this episode. Yuuki Asuna... that's a nice name.

I agree. I look forward to seeing her real-life self.

[thundrakkon]

Such a nice end to the arc. Asuna should not be dead, since she and Kirito were still talking at the end, and they were able to witness the end of the "world". If Kirito woke up from there, then so should Asuna.

Also, the ability of the "mind" to overcome machines has been used before, such as from the Matrix, so it should not be a surprise. The mind, in some ways, is a much more complex computer, which ultimately could reprogram things if necessary.

Now, I'm going to look forward to how the life after game will be like. One of the knocks on .hack// series are that they generally did not deal with the real world. I'm looking forward to seeing Kirito... errrr... Kazuto develop his relationship with Asuna. We really don't know much about Asuna's real world life at all. Hopefully, Klein will return as well. Such a cool guy would be a waste not to come back.

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

(Typical protagonist flaw: "Nobody calls me chicken!" )

McFly!!!!

Originally Posted by joshuafaramir

Our mind after all, is a mystery in itself. Nobody can ever know how it works or why it works. That's why A.Is are ultimately, impossible to make because for one to create something, one has to have ultimate understanding of the said object.

I would say that it is not completely known yet. It is still possible to understand in the future as science progresses and understanding of the spirituality increases. It is possible to interpret that scientist has only scratched the surface, but if you include Buddhist monks from Tibet and their understanding of the mind, it expands our understanding so much more.

As for A.I.'s, that is absolutely possible to make. Ultimately, one would have to create a system with self-learning abilities, which people have already began to develop. It is possible, but the more important question is if it should be done. Creating a self-learning program has its risks, which could lead to problems like in Terminator Salvation, I Robot, and the Matrix.

Just because something is currently not understood does not mean that it will never be understood.

[mdauben]

Originally Posted by MrTerrorist

And too many things made me cry in this episode, Asuna's "death" and Kirito's reaction, both of them reuniting again on the top of the game world, the scene where they tell their real names and embracing as the world ends and finally, a weak bodied Kirito, struggling to get up from his hospital bed, searching for Asuna. I could't stop crying. ;_;

I'm glad to know I wasn't the only one. I'm such a nancy-boy when it comes to emotional stuff. Sniff.

I thought at first that this was the last ep, and I could have lived with that. I'm curious now what "Return" is going to be like. Its going to be hard to top, or even follow, this episode.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by thundrakkon

Also, the ability of the "mind" to overcome machines has been used before, such as from the Matrix, so it should not be a surprise.

The difference with the Matrix though is that it was clearly setup to be a case of where human imagination/will can allow the impossible to become possible. That's why Neo was able to do the whole "Superman" thing.

But SAO has always been presented as a very grounded, and a very rules-based game with strict limitations in play. It's "fairness" was stressed repeatedly here.

So I think viewers have a right to be "surprised" here.

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

The parts of brain that regulate ethics/morality seem to be malfunctioning (though he does seem to still have some sort of twisted concept of fairness, a point that was brought up yet again in this episode). I guess his apple doesn't fall that far from the tree as far as evil geniuses go, but he's still an interesting character.

i wouldn't call it malfunctioning, Sociopaths does have a advantage in the evolution race.

[PonSquared]

That was NOT the last episode?

Amazing.

10/10

[Triple_R]

[mod edit...]

Anyway, I'm actually kind of glad that the Aincard-part of SAO is done now. I think they would have had a hard time topping the latest level boss, and doing the Kayaba/Heathcliff reveal now instead of later makes it more impacting, I think. I'm also really eager to see what is to follow!

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

But SAO has always been presented as a very grounded, and a very rules-based game with strict limitations in play. It's "fairness" was stressed repeatedly here.

So I think viewers have a right to be "surprised" here.

Well, I think there are basically two things that are "surprising" (unless I've missed something).

1. That Asuna was able to overcome paralysis. For this point, I think we have no good answer (only theories).

2. That Kirito was able to raise/thrust his sword even after his HP depleted. On this one... I'm actually not sure how "forbidden" this is. In the ten seconds before disappearance, we have definitely seen people move (to grab someone's hand, say their last words, etc.) But I think most people, in that moment, just think "oh crap, I'm dead" so they don't use that time to do anything useful (because what's the point?). But here, Kirito sees his death flash before him, but has a reason to make one final move, and he uses his willpower to force his body to move. It is beyond the bounds of what is normal... but is it beyond the bounds of what is possible or fair? I don't know. Maybe it's just unlikely that someone has that much will-to-act left in the moments before they disappear.

Edit: Oh, I guess 3. is that they didn't actually have their brains fried right away as soon as they disappeared. But yeah, on this point, we're only supposing that was the case. We never actually saw the amount of time it took for someone's brain to fry in real life. So this isn't necessarily according to or against any confirmed rule.

[PonSquared]

Okay, so... now what?

They are out of the game..... maybe??

What could happen next after the reunion?... if there is one??


My Question is: Is there a lot more story to go (ie: story arcs) or are we basically at the end of the story?

[FlareKnight]

I'm just really shocked at the moment. I figured the title was a metaphor, not that literally SAO was going to be destroyed. Just seems really soon. I haven't had enough badass action scenes yet!

In the end some things made plenty of sense. Kirito had it right that there isn't much more boring than watching someone play an RPG. You have to play it yourself. Inserting himself into the action makes sense and explains why he never seems to get hurt very much. I knew he couldn't be a hacker since it seemed unlikely that the system would ignore him and if you could hack the system, you'd get yourself out of there .

Just a lot of "holy crap" moments after another. Though now we have ot see how this all turns out. Series goes more pure drama as these people have to deal with the realities of coming back to the world after 2 years of being trapped in a game? I'm not sure if episodes of rehab are going to be that compelling .

[Dr. Casey]

Originally Posted by PonSquared

My Question is: Is there a lot more story to go (ie: story arcs) or are we basically at the end of the story?

Hope this is too vague to count as a spoiler; there are indeed many more story arcs to come. The story is just beginning.

Originally Posted by FlareKnight

I'm not sure if episodes of rehab are going to be that compelling .

Well, my grandpa seemed to enjoy rehab a lot whenever he had a stroke at 88, so it might actually be pretty exciting!

[thundrakkon]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

The difference with the Matrix though is that it was clearly setup to be a case of where human imagination/will can allow the impossible to become possible. That's why Neo was able to do the whole "Superman" thing.

But SAO has always been presented as a very grounded, and a very rules-based game with strict limitations in play. It's "fairness" was stressed repeatedly here.

So I think viewers have a right to be "surprised" here.

Well, we already had glimpse of it before with Kirito. He keeps on insisting to go faster and go beyond what is capable, especially whenever he fights Heathcliff. That glimpse is already a hint that he wants to go what is beyond the system, so for him to finally succeed seems to be along the lines of possibilities. Yes, it is a surprised to some, but the hints were there.

Originally Posted by PonSquared

My Question is: Is there a lot more story to go (ie: story arcs) or are we basically at the end of the story?

Spoilers

Spoiler for Outside material

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

On another note, what happened to Kayaba Akihiko? It looks like he survived.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by thundrakkon

On another note, what happened to Kayaba Akihiko? It looks like he survived.

I guess we'll have to wait and see; it does look like he survived. I guess if you want a novel answer, it should probably go to the Q&A thread. (Even if he had died in the game, I am assuming the he didn't set his own NerveGear to fry him... unless that violates his twisted concept of fairness, despite otherwise giving himself in-game immunity to death... )