AnimeSuki Forums

Ithekro · 2009-10-08, 21:35

Wait, wait...."think like father/childish"

Head = O
Chest = R
Stomach = A
Knee = N
Leg = L

Or if not using all capital letters

Head = o
Chest = r
Stomach = a
Knee = n
Leg = l

It isn't quite working...but my imagination is saying that these five letters are to be arranged as a stick figure. The "O" would seem like an obvious head. The a though depends on how it is drawn Most typesets have it like this "a", but most of the time I see it written is looks like an o with a line on the right side. That also depends on if the figure is a man or a woman. As the typeset "a" might be a man's belly, while the other a might be a woman's chest (Beatrice comes to mind). Of course I'm thinking from the head down...it might be from the head sideways (sort of like orz)

Once in this figure it should say something...perhaps give a general direction to go. It could be as simple as the figure pointing the way from that place one is standing, but that doesn't help someone that can't stand there (like the players).

Tjfarmer · 2009-10-08, 21:49

Spoiler for Ithekros epitapth theory:

Clearly, there is a mutant living on the Island who doesn't count as human, and they point the way to the gold. I THINK IT ALL MAKES SENSE NOW.

TsundereCake · 2009-10-08, 21:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tjfarmer

Spoiler for Ithekros epitapth theory:

Clearly, there is a mutant living on the Island who doesn't count as human, and they point the way to the gold. I THINK IT ALL MAKES SENSE NOW.

This.

luckyssol · 2009-10-08, 21:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tjfarmer

Spoiler for Ithekros epitapth theory:

Clearly, there is a mutant living on the Island who doesn't count as human, and they point the way to the gold. I THINK IT ALL MAKES SENSE NOW.

Best. Epitaph. Analysis. Theory. Of all time.

Ithekro · 2009-10-08, 23:09

LORAN is a radio navigation system that has since been replaced by GPS.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LORAN

There were transmitters in Japan at the time this was suppose to be written.

Jan-Poo · 2009-10-09, 07:24

Wow... I must admit that "mutant" was never excluded by Eva red text. I wonder if that can be excluded by the knox rules.

LORAN is interesting but I wonder how Battler Erika and Eva were supposed to know about this.

The only way to save this theory I see right now is that there was some guesswork involved. In ep5 it does look like Erika is trying different combinations, she is still tinkering on that mechanism even so the signpost has already moved. Maybe this is a hint that even at that point she was still testing different possibilities.

OBrasilo · 2009-10-09, 17:58

Well, the Russian system, counterpart to LORAN, is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CHAYKA . Now, chayka is the Russian word for seagull, which is the English word for umineko. Coincidence, or something more?

Renall · 2009-10-10, 12:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

Wow... I must admit that "mutant" was never excluded by Eva red text. I wonder if that can be excluded by the knox rules.

Any "mutant" which could exist in 1986 terms would be a human being, just misshapen or ill. Even if Kinzo had him a misshapen flipper-baby, it'd be a human.

Knox would exclude weird genetic mutants, radioactive monsters with human intelligence, etc. Those sorts of things are on the level of the other science fiction exclusions made by Knox like teleporters and such.

EDIT: On the other hand, corpses don't appear to count as human for Beatrice's categorization purposes, so I suppose it's not unimaginable that a "person" could physically point the way without being alive. Corpses or skeletons is a little too "pirate treasure" for Kinzo, but you never know I guess.

Ithekro · 2009-10-10, 19:19

LORAN could give a coordinate...or a location via one of the towers...since there are some around both the island chain involved in the series, and the much larger northern Japanese Home Island where your rail station method starts. Tokachibuto

As for the idea of a stick figure...that was basically an attempt to find a word using a "childish method" to arrange the letters. I was hoping it would spell something usable...a name, a thing/object to head towards, or a general compass direction in some language.

Serpit · 2009-10-11, 12:09

My head is running hot on weird theories again. I believe that in one interview, Ryukishi stated that "finding out Lambdadelta's identity is a big step towards solving the mystery" or something along those lines. This kind of fits with my somewhat philosophic speculation. Please excuse it's crackpotty-ness, but I need to get this out of my head.

Spoiler for Lambda's identity:

Lambdadelta represents the Ushiromiya family's hidden gold.

I based this around Ryukishi's comment as posted above, her description, some red lines concerning Battler's sin and certain events in episode 3 and 5.

First and foremost, what is Lambda's role? She's the "Witch of Certainty", she is the unshakable value. However, her most important actions so far are... making other people "witches". In Lambda's diary, she acknowledges Beato as a witch, making her a witch. In Episode 3, she acknowledges Eva as a witch, making her a witch. In Episode 5, she makes Battler a "witch", or rather, a sorceror.

What do all of those have in common? They all came in contact with the gold. Beato supposedly gave Kinzo the gold, but it's not stated how she actually got it. If we take this paralell, I can create the theory that Beato became a witch when she found the gold herself, and received Lambdadelta's support. Just like Eva and Battler, who found the gold, received Lambda's support, and became witches/sorcerors.

On to the next point: One of Beato's lines of red text in Episode 4 concerning Battler's sin: "Due to your sin, a great many humans on this island die. No one escapes, all die."

All die.

That's the core of what I'm about to argue: Battler's sin, when unredeemed, causes ALL people on Rokkenjima to die. However, in Episode 3 and 5, this is not the case - in 3, Eva survives, and in 5, eleven people make it. This contradicts Beato's statement that because of Battler's sin, everyone dies, so it leads me to believe that both times, his sin, whatever it was, has been redeemed.

And what's the factor tying those two Episodes together? Someone solving the epitaph and finding the gold. Now, think of the gold as Lambda - If she is not discovered and stopped, she will CERTAINLY cause the death of all humans on Rokkenjima.

So basically, I don't know Battler's sin was, but I assume it is related to the hidden gold - Thus, finding the gold redeems his sin and the killing may or may not stop, but it won't end in EVERYONE's death.

Going back to the witches: As opposed to the witches appointed by Lambda, the two appointed by Bern (Ange and Erika), share a different objective. Both of them are witches trying to deny other witches, while Lambda's witches (Endless Sorceror Battler is obviously a wild card as of now) embrace their "witchhood". You may say that, as a parallel to the real world's use of gold, Lambda gives them power and a foundation for success, while Bern embodies other values, since her witches were apparently appointed due to their luck and/or survival of mortal situations. Ange fell froma skycraper, and survived unharmed, Erika got shipwrecked, and survived unharmed. You may speculate that because of this, they aren't attached to worldly possessions, with free minds opposing those who are still bound by materialistic values, which Lambda (the gold) represents.

Spoiler for tl;dr:

Workworkwork · 2009-10-11, 12:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Serpit

My head is running hot on weird theories again. I need someone to confirm one thing for me: I heard that in one interview, Ryukishi stated that "finding out Lambdadelta's identity is a big step towards solving the mystery" or something along those lines. Is that true? Because it kind of fits with my somewhat philosophic speculation. Please excuse it's crackpotty-ness, but I need to get this out of my head.

Spoiler for Lambda's identity:

Lambdadelta represents the Ushiromiya family's hidden gold.

I based this around Ryukishi's comment as posted above, her description, some red lines concerning Battler's sin and certain events in episode 3 and 5.

First and foremost, what is Lambda's role? She's the "Witch of Certainty", she is the unshakable value. However, her most important actions so far are... making other people "witches". In Lambda's diary, she acknowledges Beato as a witch, making her a witch. In Episode 3, she acknowledges Eva as a witch, making her a witch. In Episode 5, she makes Battler a "witch", or rather, a sorceror.

What do all of those have in common? They all came in contact with the gold. Beato supposedly gave Kinzo the gold, but it's not stated how she actually got it. If we take this paralell, I can create the theory that Beato became a witch when she found the gold herself, and received Lambdadelta's support. Just like Eva and Battler, who found the gold, received Lambda's support, and became witches/sorcerors.

On to the next point: One of Beato's lines o red text in Episode 4 concerning Battler's sin: "Due to your sin, a great many humans on this island die. No one escapes, all die."

All die.

That's the core of what I'm about to argue: Battler's sin, when unredeemed, causes ALL people on Rokkenjima to die. However, in Episode 3 and 5, this is not the case - in 3, Eva survives, and in 5, eleven people make it. This contradicts Beato's statement that because of Battler's sin, everyone dies, so it leads me to believe that both times, his sin, whatever it was, has been redeemed.

And what's the factor tying those two Episodes together? Someone solving the epitaph and finding the gold. Now, think of the gold as Lambda - If she is not discovered and stopped, she will CERTAINLY cause the death of all humans on Rokkenjima.

So basically, I don't know Battler's sin was, but I assume it is related to the hidden gold - Thus, finding the gold redeems his sin and the killing may or may not stop, but it won't end in EVERYONE's death.

Going back to the witches: As opposed to the witches appointed by Lambda, the two appointed by Bern (Ange and Erika), share a different objective. Both of them are witches trying to deny other witches, while Lambda's witches (Endless Sorceror Battler is obviously a wild card as of now) embrace their "witchhood". You may say that, as a paralell to the real world's use of gold, Lambda given them power and a foundation for success, while Bern embodies other values, since her witches were apparently appointed due to their luck and/or survival of mortal situations. Ange fell froma skycraper, and survived unharmed, Erika got shipwrecked, and survived unharmed. You may speculate that because of this, they aren't attached to worldly possessions, with free minds opposing those who are still bound by materialistic values, which Lambda (the gold) represents.

Spoiler for tl;dr:

It was just a Higurashi joke. You know who Lambda looks like in that, right?

Serpit · 2009-10-11, 12:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Workworkwork

It was just a Higurashi joke. You know who Lambda looks like in that, right?

I know who Lambda resembles. I also know she is NOT that Higurashi character, but, according to "Lambda's diary", just gave her the power to succeed.

June 1983 · 2009-10-11, 12:53

Jan-Poo's epitaph theory = amazing. I haven't read EP 5 yet so some of it was confusing to me, but you MUST be on the right track.

Jan-Poo · 2009-10-11, 14:52

I just hope it wont' end up being completely false after all these positive comments XD
Do not be angry at me if that happens, okay? °° I said it from the beginning there are many parts do not convince me. ^^,

Anyway the things that I like the most is the fact you can use train stations as clue to reach the gold. Now if the real solution just stops at the word play and the signpost just indicates the "golden land" directly, that would e a major let down.

In other words if my theory is wrong, I hope the right one won't be less cool than mine XD

What really doesn't satisfy me is the word play itself. That "quadrillion-liquid" thing is kinda farfetched, and I don't get what the "honorable name" should be. Even if it is "LORAN" as someone suggested, what's so honorable about that?

There is also the mechanism thing that doesn't sound very right. If it is some sort of very strange mechanism then why Ryukishi said that the epitaph is solvable? Unless we know what kind of mechanism it is, it would be impossible.
Then again maybe it is something that we are supposed to know well? Like a standard padlock or something? But I can't really get this...

June 1983 · 2009-10-11, 16:52

One thing that struck me about the LORAN/LORNA/RONAL thing is just how close it is Ronald/Dlanor, all it lacks is the D.

As for the mechanism, again, since I haven't read EP 5 yet, I don't know a lot about it, but I kind of wonder if maybe the family crest might not be connected to it somehow. From the beginning I've been sure that there was something more significant to the crest than what seems obvious. The eagle's wing is depicted with five feathers, one for each letter.

Used Can · 2009-10-11, 20:32

The answer is Ronald McDonald's. Kinzo invested all of his money in McD's.
Now you see why they have those Golden Arches, right?

Without love it cannot be seen?
I'm lovin' it

Isekaijin · 2009-10-11, 20:46

Ran Ran Ruu

But seriously, if that's the case I would die from laughter.

Ithekro · 2009-10-11, 20:54

Wouldn't that be like trolling a troll with another troll?

Li Jianliang · 2009-10-11, 21:53

When was the epitaph made? Did Kinzo come up with it a long time ago, like before any of his children were born?

Marion · 2009-10-11, 21:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Li Jianliang

When was the epitaph made? Did Kinzo come up with it a long time ago, like before any of his children were born?

It's unsure. It was only put up in 1984, along with the Beatrice portrait. Around a year later he dies.

2009-10-08, 21:35	Link #1141
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	Wait, wait...."think like father/childish" Head = O Chest = R Stomach = A Knee = N Leg = L Or if not using all capital letters Head = o Chest = r Stomach = a Knee = n Leg = l It isn't quite working...but my imagination is saying that these five letters are to be arranged as a stick figure. The "O" would seem like an obvious head. The a though depends on how it is drawn Most typesets have it like this "a", but most of the time I see it written is looks like an o with a line on the right side. That also depends on if the figure is a man or a woman. As the typeset "a" might be a man's belly, while the other a might be a woman's chest (Beatrice comes to mind). Of course I'm thinking from the head down...it might be from the head sideways (sort of like orz) Once in this figure it should say something...perhaps give a general direction to go. It could be as simple as the figure pointing the way from that place one is standing, but that doesn't help someone that can't stand there (like the players). __________________ Last edited by Ithekro; 2009-10-08 at 21:47.

2009-10-08, 23:09	Link #1145
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	LORAN is a radio navigation system that has since been replaced by GPS. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LORAN There were transmitters in Japan at the time this was suppose to be written. __________________

2009-10-09, 07:24	Link #1146
Jan-Poo 別にいいけど Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: forever lost inside a logic error	Wow... I must admit that "mutant" was never excluded by Eva red text. I wonder if that can be excluded by the knox rules. LORAN is interesting but I wonder how Battler Erika and Eva were supposed to know about this. The only way to save this theory I see right now is that there was some guesswork involved. In ep5 it does look like Erika is trying different combinations, she is still tinkering on that mechanism even so the signpost has already moved. Maybe this is a hint that even at that point she was still testing different possibilities. __________________

2009-10-09, 17:58	Link #1147
OBrasilo Uyimbube! Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Clannad City, Clannad Prefecture, Clannad Japan. Age: 37	Well, the Russian system, counterpart to LORAN, is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CHAYKA . Now, chayka is the Russian word for seagull, which is the English word for umineko. Coincidence, or something more? __________________

2009-10-10, 19:19	Link #1149
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	LORAN could give a coordinate...or a location via one of the towers...since there are some around both the island chain involved in the series, and the much larger northern Japanese Home Island where your rail station method starts. Tokachibuto As for the idea of a stick figure...that was basically an attempt to find a word using a "childish method" to arrange the letters. I was hoping it would spell something usable...a name, a thing/object to head towards, or a general compass direction in some language. __________________

2009-10-08, 21:49	Link #1142
Tjfarmer I'm almost there! Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Bay Area, California Age: 30	Spoiler for Ithekros epitapth theory: Clearly, there is a mutant living on the Island who doesn't count as human, and they point the way to the gold. I THINK IT ALL MAKES SENSE NOW.

2009-10-11, 12:09	Link #1150
Serpit Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2009	My head is running hot on weird theories again. I believe that in one interview, Ryukishi stated that "finding out Lambdadelta's identity is a big step towards solving the mystery" or something along those lines. This kind of fits with my somewhat philosophic speculation. Please excuse it's crackpotty-ness, but I need to get this out of my head. Spoiler for Lambda's identity: Lambdadelta represents the Ushiromiya family's hidden gold. I based this around Ryukishi's comment as posted above, her description, some red lines concerning Battler's sin and certain events in episode 3 and 5. First and foremost, what is Lambda's role? She's the "Witch of Certainty", she is the unshakable value. However, her most important actions so far are... making other people "witches". In Lambda's diary, she acknowledges Beato as a witch, making her a witch. In Episode 3, she acknowledges Eva as a witch, making her a witch. In Episode 5, she makes Battler a "witch", or rather, a sorceror. What do all of those have in common? They all came in contact with the gold. Beato supposedly gave Kinzo the gold, but it's not stated how she actually got it. If we take this paralell, I can create the theory that Beato became a witch when she found the gold herself, and received Lambdadelta's support. Just like Eva and Battler, who found the gold, received Lambda's support, and became witches/sorcerors. On to the next point: One of Beato's lines of red text in Episode 4 concerning Battler's sin: "Due to your sin, a great many humans on this island die. No one escapes, all die." All die. That's the core of what I'm about to argue: Battler's sin, when unredeemed, causes ALL people on Rokkenjima to die. However, in Episode 3 and 5, this is not the case - in 3, Eva survives, and in 5, eleven people make it. This contradicts Beato's statement that because of Battler's sin, everyone dies, so it leads me to believe that both times, his sin, whatever it was, has been redeemed. And what's the factor tying those two Episodes together? Someone solving the epitaph and finding the gold. Now, think of the gold as Lambda - If she is not discovered and stopped, she will CERTAINLY cause the death of all humans on Rokkenjima. So basically, I don't know Battler's sin was, but I assume it is related to the hidden gold - Thus, finding the gold redeems his sin and the killing may or may not stop, but it won't end in EVERYONE's death. Going back to the witches: As opposed to the witches appointed by Lambda, the two appointed by Bern (Ange and Erika), share a different objective. Both of them are witches trying to deny other witches, while Lambda's witches (Endless Sorceror Battler is obviously a wild card as of now) embrace their "witchhood". You may say that, as a parallel to the real world's use of gold, Lambda gives them power and a foundation for success, while Bern embodies other values, since her witches were apparently appointed due to their luck and/or survival of mortal situations. Ange fell froma skycraper, and survived unharmed, Erika got shipwrecked, and survived unharmed. You may speculate that because of this, they aren't attached to worldly possessions, with free minds opposing those who are still bound by materialistic values, which Lambda (the gold) represents. Spoiler for tl;dr: Lambda is the hidden gold, Battler's sin has to do with it, and finding it redeems his sin, guaranteeing at least 1 survivor and breaking Lambda's power of Certainty. If you read only this, don't be lazy and read the whole thing so you might understand where I'm coming from =P Last edited by Serpit; 2009-10-19 at 23:19.

2009-10-11, 12:53	Link #1153
June 1983 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Warwick, RI Age: 40	Jan-Poo's epitaph theory = amazing. I haven't read EP 5 yet so some of it was confusing to me, but you MUST be on the right track.

2009-10-11, 14:52	Link #1154
Jan-Poo 別にいいけど Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: forever lost inside a logic error	I just hope it wont' end up being completely false after all these positive comments XD Do not be angry at me if that happens, okay? °° I said it from the beginning there are many parts do not convince me. ^^, Anyway the things that I like the most is the fact you can use train stations as clue to reach the gold. Now if the real solution just stops at the word play and the signpost just indicates the "golden land" directly, that would e a major let down. In other words if my theory is wrong, I hope the right one won't be less cool than mine XD What really doesn't satisfy me is the word play itself. That "quadrillion-liquid" thing is kinda farfetched, and I don't get what the "honorable name" should be. Even if it is "LORAN" as someone suggested, what's so honorable about that? There is also the mechanism thing that doesn't sound very right. If it is some sort of very strange mechanism then why Ryukishi said that the epitaph is solvable? Unless we know what kind of mechanism it is, it would be impossible. Then again maybe it is something that we are supposed to know well? Like a standard padlock or something? But I can't really get this... __________________

2009-10-11, 16:52	Link #1155
June 1983 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Warwick, RI Age: 40	One thing that struck me about the LORAN/LORNA/RONAL thing is just how close it is Ronald/Dlanor, all it lacks is the D. As for the mechanism, again, since I haven't read EP 5 yet, I don't know a lot about it, but I kind of wonder if maybe the family crest might not be connected to it somehow. From the beginning I've been sure that there was something more significant to the crest than what seems obvious. The eagle's wing is depicted with five feathers, one for each letter.

2009-10-11, 20:32	Link #1156
Used Can Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008	The answer is Ronald McDonald's. Kinzo invested all of his money in McD's. Now you see why they have those Golden Arches, right? Without love it cannot be seen? I'm lovin' it __________________ "The name is Tin; Used is just an alias. I'm everything Shoe Box would like to be." - Used Can of the Aluminium Kingdom

2009-10-11, 20:46	Link #1157
Isekaijin Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008	Ran Ran Ruu But seriously, if that's the case I would die from laughter.

2009-10-11, 20:54	Link #1158
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	Wouldn't that be like trolling a troll with another troll? __________________

2009-10-11, 21:53	Link #1159
Li Jianliang This is my ____ face Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: In front of my laptop Age: 36	When was the epitaph made? Did Kinzo come up with it a long time ago, like before any of his children were born? __________________ Umineko no Naku Koro ni Chiru episode 5: End of the golden witch Translations & summaries & a billion screenshots Part I \| Part II \| Part III \| Part IV \| Part V \| Part VI \| Part VII \| Part VIII \| Part IX \| Part X \| Part XI \| Part XII In progress Umineko no Naku Koro ni Chiru episode 6: Dawn of the golden witch Translations & summaries & screenshots Part I \| Part II In progress