2012-07-15, 23:56 | Link #61 | |
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Don't worry, you've made yourself clear. I don't expect to see any significant changes to AS' Spoiler policies, or how it handles episode threads, anytime soon. So I intend to leave this thread until/unless I can come up with a different idea of my own. Thanks for continuing to leave this thread open, as I think it's lead to some helpful discussion.
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2012-07-16, 06:38 | Link #62 | ||
is this so?
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Gradius Home World
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Last edited by Liddo-kun; 2012-07-16 at 09:14. |
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2012-07-16, 09:02 | Link #63 |
AS Oji-kun
Join Date: Nov 2006
Age: 74
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I'm frankly more concerned about the problem of spoilage for series without sub-forums. For those, you have options like the ones you've discussed here. The vast bulk of shows don't get a sub-forum, so there are no easy ways to avoid spoilers.
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2012-07-16, 18:11 | Link #64 | |
You're Hot, Cupcake
Join Date: Aug 2008
Age: 42
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I'd just like to forward something a friend of mine said to me last night. This problem isn't confined to AS. It has become global across anime communities/dens, it seems.
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2012-07-16, 19:50 | Link #65 | ||
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Ultimately, we need to get to the point where people realize that just having knowledge of the source material is one thing -- being able to recite a list of changes and get mad about it is fine, I guess -- but the real value is being able to perform smart and intelligent analysis and provide useful and relevant insight that adds value even to other novel readers watching the anime. Right now, we're just overwhelmed with simple comparisons because being able to do that is so new. I really question how much value it adds, if any -- it sure isn't very interesting for me to read, anyway.
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2012-07-17, 16:28 | Link #66 |
Franco's Phalanx is next!
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Little England, Europe and Asia
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I can understand the principles behind the spoiler policy, but the application is not very helpful to foreign fans. We must always keep in mind that anime are produced with the domestic fans in mind who are familiar with information deleted en mass as spoilers here. Some anime even make almost no sense without spoilers moved to obscure threads (muv-luv/horizon/campione). And some information is deleted, because someone got paranoid and reported it, with a mod not noticing that something has at least been mentioned in the show (Jinrui/Joshiraku/Ebiten).
I am not saying not to delete, warn, or whatever you guys are doing here when someone posts the resolution of an arc or show, but background information that are readily available to the domestic audience and irrelevant to the plot is not a spoiler. |
2012-07-17, 17:08 | Link #67 |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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I agree with AmeNoJaku that "background information" is not the same thing as a "spoiler".
The problem with anime adaptions is that they have time constraints that prevents them from giving full and complete explanations about the setting which frequently causes the audience to not understand or even completely misunderstand the situation. Spoiler in my book is when you tell something that has yet to happened or that has yet to be revealed, not something that was supposed to be told already in the original story but which was lost in adaption. If this forum's policy forbids any kind of information that isn't esplicitly mentioned in the adaption, I suggest to specify that, rather than simply forbid "spoilers" as this can cause confusion.
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2012-07-17, 17:25 | Link #68 | |
reading #hikaributts
Join Date: Feb 2009
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Last edited by hyl; 2012-07-17 at 17:32. Reason: rephrasing |
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2012-07-17, 17:35 | Link #69 |
Franco's Phalanx is next!
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Little England, Europe and Asia
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how often does that happen in chronologically ordered anime
My point is that in spoilers here are included a lot of facts well known to domestic fans that the anime producers assume also as known when they make the shows we watch. By deleting them makes conversation between native english fans and the rest of the world including the domestic fans the least harder. |
2012-07-17, 17:37 | Link #70 |
He Without a Title
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: The land of tempura
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You have a very recent example just mentioned on this very thread: Fate/Zero cut a bit of character development from the second-last episode but added it on the next one. The episode thread for the latter was obviously rampant with people complaining about the omission as you can probably guess.
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2012-07-17, 17:49 | Link #71 | |
Franco's Phalanx is next!
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Little England, Europe and Asia
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in muv-luv secondary background information are moved to threads filled with actual spoilers. These info are necessary to give the setting some believability, and the production staff assumes that are know... but even if they weren't they present no plot point, like the example you mentioned. in jinrui, some claim that episode titled are spoilers, others that the corresponding volume numbers are, and then a mod jumped in to delete them because he didn't understand that events are taking place out of order again no information about the content and/or future/past events were revealed, just a fact implied within the show, and generally well known to the domestic audience, that for some incomprehensible reason is very bad to know |
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2012-07-17, 17:54 | Link #72 | |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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Anyway if I understand correctly the case you mentioned is related to events that are plot related and not "common lore" about the setting which doesn't make much difference whether you learn it sooner or later. I can mention on this regard the fact that often the anime adaption sites themselves often offer that kind of information for those people who wants to know more about the setting about things that couldn't be explained in depth in the anime itself.
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2012-07-17, 18:08 | Link #73 | |
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2012-07-17, 19:28 | Link #74 |
Moderate Haruhiist
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I don't think it's an issue with 4chan-isms seeping through at all, but Muv-Luv's situation is relatively complex. Total Eclipse is a LN-made sidestory of a sequel of an alternative ending of a parallel world of an eroge. This fact alone means that some familiarity with the setting is required, or some things won't make any sense... which is exactly what many anime-watchers are experiencing.
While it was helpful to create setting and military/geopolitical threads to clear things up, those threads are pretty much glorified Q&A threads that give a LOT of details on the franchise. I don't really mind myself, as the more info for me to digest the better, but for someone who might want to jump into the world of Alternative or Ultimate, well... We're put in a position where the setting doesn't make sense, people who know of the setting can't explain because it might be considered a spoiler even if it's not even about the events of the show, and to have things make sense the curious person is to be directed to the game threads... which are more or less 100% spoilers for the main series instead.
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Last edited by Myssa Rei; 2012-07-17 at 19:50. |
2012-07-17, 19:51 | Link #75 | |
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You're right. The current situation makes it harder for people to pick and choose what they'll spoil themselves on. It's a bit more all-or-nothing.
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2012-07-17, 19:51 | Link #76 | |
reading #hikaributts
Join Date: Feb 2009
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This is probably similar to Muv-Luv that has already established quite some backstory because of it's previous games. The difference is that the Western people know less about Muv-Luv than Fate stay night. Last edited by hyl; 2012-07-17 at 20:10. Reason: full of typos |
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2012-07-17, 22:02 | Link #78 | |
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 41
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Let me be really blunt here: if people want to watch the anime without the "benefit" of the source material, even if "makes no sense", even if you think you're "expected" to know certain things, even if you think "all the fans in Japan know this" (hint: they don't; there are anime-only viewers there too), you have to give them that right. It's not up to source material readers to decide what anime-only viewers should and shouldn't know. You can present comparisons to what was currently aired behind properly-labelled spoiler tags. And, in cases where it's really, really required, we can create a separate thread for "background information that you may want to know", as I did with Muv-Luv (after discussing with some familiar with the source). But we on the staff will not allow source material readers to be the judge of what anime-only viewers "need to know". We have rules to determine where conversation has to reside. There is an acceptable place for almost every kind of post, even if it isn't where you think it's supposed to be. If people want to spoil themselves on information that may help them make sense of things that confuse them, they are free to make that choice and to partake. But in the meantime, if you try to make an executive decision on their behalf, you may be banned for it. Be prepared.
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Will it be explained/covered later? NOT OK. Is it just a supplement to what was already shown? SPOILER TAG IT. If you have nothing to say about the anime except to talk about the source, then just go to the source thread or spoilers & speculation for shows with sub-forums. The bottom line is: respect the right of anime-only viewers to experience the show and the related discussion without any outside information. If people can do that, the rules are just clarifying what should come naturally. It's not like we made the rules because we needed rules; it's just a formalization of what for some of us was already common practice. (And by the way, the policy hasn't actually changed. We just re-worded it and made the penalties a bit clearer because some people didn't seem to be getting it despite attempts to try to point it out in the threads.)
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Last edited by relentlessflame; 2012-07-17 at 22:15. |
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2012-07-17, 22:20 | Link #79 |
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Just to be sure. Its ok to use a spoiler tag if I'm about to post a reaction for the "latest episode" of an anime in the Current Series Thread? If there is no Per Episode Impression thread for that anime that is.
By the way, I'm an anime viewer only anime fan without access to LNs or manga. |
2012-07-17, 22:26 | Link #80 | |
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All that to say, if you watched it subbed and have no comparisons, you don't need a tag.
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