Copyright infringement (DMCA) notices for unlicensed anime

[idjot]

I wonder how many people there are out there who got a letter but didn't know about this site and are still scared shitless...

[tbl]

Has anyone here read The Pirate Bay's replies to copyright infringement and C&D emails? That's the way things like this should be dealt with

[Quarkboy]

The Japanese perspective on this little controversy... kind of.

http://animeanime.jp/review/archives...1/post_32.html

I'm too lazy to post a full translation but I'm sure someone else will. What I find most interesting is that the article discusses not the acts of Odex itself, but the FAN reaction to it, specifically the reaction IN THIS THREAD ITSELF.

And it actually praises the supposedly calm and "accepting" reaction to this perhaps new reality. Hmm, maybe I will make a full translation later, but please anyone who knows japanese check it out, I think it is fascinating.

[LikesGames]

I'm interested further in what their view is, please do make a translation.

[Furi-Yuri]

ODEX and BayTSP have dishonored the Japanese and the Japanese Anime Companies they claim to represent bringing much SHAME to Japan, the Japanese Anime Companies and, their Japanese employees. This much SHAME for the Japanese involved in the Anime business will be hard to live down. The is a big loss of FACE for the Japanese, Japanese Anime Companies and Japanese people working for them.

On the other hand I have no SHAME or anything to be ashamed of. You need to use your head and understand culture.

[DarkMirage]

I'm interested further in what their view is, please do make a translation.

Their view is pretty much the mainstream Japanese view... i.e. anime industry is suffering from illegal file-sharing and any legal action is a good thing. In fact they even ended off the article by saying "perhaps this will be the beginning of the solution to the great problems faced by the DVD markets today".

I hate to be the one to tell them that the whole thing was just a mistake made by one company.

[Quarkboy]

Originally Posted by DarkMirage

Their view is pretty much the mainstream Japanese view... i.e. anime industry is suffering from illegal file-sharing and any legal action is a good thing. In fact they even ended off the article by saying "perhaps this will be the beginning of the solution to the great problems faced by the DVD markets today".

I hate to be the one to tell them that the whole thing was just a mistake made by one company.

Well, they take an interesting perspective from my point of view.

Here's my translation, and yes, I know it sucks and was really fast and not proofread.: Original post here: http://animeanime.jp/review/archives...1/post_32.html


On Nov 17, on the forums of the large american gateway site to illegal anime file distribution Anime Suki, a somewhat strange post appeared. This is according to Animesuki's staff itself. According to the post, some users of the internet service provided by the large american ISP comcast recieved warnings for downloading illegal files.

From that, the post on animesuki's forum requested information from its site's users. And then looking at the followup post, the route these warnings took was ambiguous, and that what is really going on is complicated. The truth of the current state of things is still in doubt. According to the contributions the warnings were about the popular anime "Suteki Tantei Laborynth", "Gundam 00", "Seto no Hanayome", "Nagasarete Airantou". "Shugo Chara!", "Higurashi no naku koru ni toku"/

Although the warnings ended up not being confirmed, this news gave american fans a shock. This wasn't directed at uploaders of illegal files, but at downloaders. And it is thought that because these are works that are not licensed in america, that this is an action taken directly by the Japanese rights holders.

Though this is biased towards popular works, the rights holders are completely different from one another, and since no one could come up with a reason why comcast would do such a thing it was hard to believe. However what is very interesting is that a rumor like this spread. American fans easily believed this state of affairs. The "of course we have a right to use fansubs" opinion of american anime fans may be changing a little.

And starting from August this year a number of events relating to anime have occured. First was the sudden departure of the 3rd largest anime DVD company in america, Geneon Entertainment. Second was Singapore anime DVD licensor actions against general users who downloaded illegal files. Right now the Odex management is in a serious problem since their action targeted even elementary schoolers. And finally, the Japanese government requested the american government to help stop the illegal distribution of japanese anime.
Therefore, american anime fans think that in Japan, america, and even asia the management of companies has started to take serious action ( at least that's what the companies think) against the trading of illegal files. The feel as if from now on the companies will start seriously controlling the illegal files. This time, and from now on, things will be very difficult. And this is what has caused the present serious reaction.

And looking at this from the Japanese side, the problem of illegal anime file sharing is more or less heading in the right direction. Even though I understand that immediately stopping the large scale sharing of fansubs is no possibile, which is by nature not possible, I at least want anime fans to understand. That would be the first step in understanding. If this has happened a while ago, this news would have caused an overflow of criticism of the companies on the forums. But lately, calm discussions of the standpoint of the companies and questions of law are more and more common.

Japanese companies need to not run away from this state of affairs, and look towards the needs of fans that were born from fansubs. In other words, respond to their needs like release works with no time lag, increase the number of programs broadcast on tv, release anime for download online, and make anime cheaper. The big problems with the anime DVD market today, isn't this maybe the direction to the solution in the distant horizon?

[orion]

Originally Posted by DarkMirage

Their view is pretty much the mainstream Japanese view... i.e. anime industry is suffering from illegal file-sharing and any legal action is a good thing. In fact they even ended off the article by saying "perhaps this will be the beginning of the solution to the great problems faced by the DVD markets today".

I hate to be the one to tell them that the whole thing was just a mistake made by one company.

It doesn't matter that it was a mistake. Targetting downloaders instead of the fansub groups can have the effect that they want which is people stop watching the titles and BayTSP was pretty effective in finding a lot of downloaders. Combining that with the DMCA notice was pretty effective in warning/scaring a lot of people. When it all comes down to it, if you think that you're about to be sued, you will rethink your past actions and pray for some sort of salvation imo. When that salvation occurs, then you usually change your behaviour in some way.

Those that are watching form the sidelines also start to alter their behavior to avoid a similar situation. It's just the hope of some that they stop the downloading.

[DarkMirage]

Originally Posted by Quarkboy

Well, they take an interesting perspective from my point of view. And though I said I'm lazy I'm 50% done with the translation so give me another 10-15 minutes .

Well I guess it can be considered quite neutral in the sense that it doesn't go on about fansubbers = pirates. And the suggestion for Japanese companies to create services that can actually compete with fansubs in terms of speed is welcomed.

But other than that I don't think it deviates much from the regular view of fansubbing in a country where few people know what BitTorrent is. I question the need to bring up Geneon Entertainment's recent demise.

Originally Posted by orion

It doesn't matter that it was a mistake. Targetting downloaders instead of the fansub groups can have the effect that they want which is people stop watching the titles and BayTSP was pretty effective in finding a lot of downloaders. Combining that with the DMCA notice was pretty effective in warning/scaring a lot of people. When it all comes down to it, if you think that you're about to be sued, you will rethink your past actions and pray for some sort of salvation imo. When that salvation occurs, then you usually change your behaviour in some way.

Yes, you stop using BitTorrent. Which is basically what happened in Singapore. But people still get their fansubs through other means.

[orion]

Originally Posted by DarkMirage

But other than that I don't think it deviates much from the regular view of fansubbing in a country where few people know what BitTorrent is. I question the need to bring up Geneon Entertainment's recent demise.

Because it's been bantied about that if the downloaders had boought the DVDs Geneon USA would still be here right now.

Originally Posted by DarkMirage

Yes, you stop using BitTorrent. Which is basically what happened in Singapore. But people still get their fansubs through other means.

No, only the technologically savvy and truly gungho people continue to seek other means. Others would just stop if frightened enough imo. No one wants to pay $5,000 in R1.

[Furi-Yuri]

Geneon USA's pricing is what killed them and nothing else.

[DarkMirage]

Originally Posted by orion

Because it's been bantied about that if the downloaders had boought the DVDs Geneon USA would still be here right now.

More like if only Geneon USA didn't use the BitTorrent habits of hardcore anime viewers as their market research.

Originally Posted by orion

No, only the technologically savvy and truly gungho people continue to seek other means. Others would just stop if frightened enough imo. No one wants to pay $5,000 in R1.

Non-tech savvy people use youtube, veoh and crunchyroll, which are unaffected.

Or they get their tech savvy friends to burn for them.

It has always been this way. Nothing has changed.

[hobbes_fan]

Originally Posted by Quarkboy

Japanese companies need to not run away from this state of affairs, and look towards the needs of fans that were born from fansubs. In other words, respond to their needs like release works with no time lag, increase the number of programs broadcast on tv, release anime for download online, and make anime cheaper. The big problems with the anime DVD market today, isn't this maybe the direction to the solution in the distant horizon?

I can pretty much ignore the rest. This is the most important because all these problems are the source of everyone's misery. I don't think anyone has a problem with paying a fair price for a good product. We have needs, none of which are being addressed. We don't want studios to go under, we don't want to get sued either. And FFS for those Japanese reading this someone sort out Macross licensing.

[Ranko]

Originally Posted by Furi-Yuri

Geneon USA's pricing is what killed them and nothing else.

Geneon's prices where fine, and don't tell me that you couldn't find discounts, tsri or hell even best buy always gave at least some % off and if your a gotanime member that's another 10%.

Geneon's issue seems to be more their japanese owners want a larger share of the pie and feel that outsourcing their work can get them that.

[cyth]

Originally Posted by Furi-Yuri

Geneon USA's pricing is what killed them and nothing else.

No.

@Quarkboy: I'd just like to warn that the linked article isn't completely based on the view the Japanese hold. AnimeAnime.jp has a long-standing relationship with AnimeNewsNetwork.com. They share interesting articles between each other, translate them, and rewrite them, so their view was most likely based on ANN's recent article on this bit of controversy. Their own view was most likely compromised.

[Quarkboy]

Originally Posted by Toua

No.

@Quarkboy: I'd just like to warn that the linked article isn't completely based on the view the Japanese hold. AnimeAnime.jp has a long-standing relationship with AnimeNewsNetwork.com. They share interesting articles between each other, translate them, and rewrite them, so their view was most likely based on ANN's recent article on this bit of controversy. Their own view was most likely compromised.

I am aware of the relationship between animenewsnetwork and animeanime.

The article is more of an opinion piece by the author anyway, and since I'm pretty sure Zac doesn't speak Japanese it at least reflects the view of one particular Japanese person .

[Green²]

Originally Posted by orion

It doesn't matter that it was a mistake. Targetting downloaders instead of the fansub groups can have the effect that they want which is people stop watching the titles and BayTSP was pretty effective in finding a lot of downloaders. Combining that with the DMCA notice was pretty effective in warning/scaring a lot of people. When it all comes down to it, if you think that you're about to be sued, you will rethink your past actions and pray for some sort of salvation imo. When that salvation occurs, then you usually change your behaviour in some way.

Those that are watching form the sidelines also start to alter their behavior to avoid a similar situation. It's just the hope of some that they stop the downloading.

With BitTorrent, sending a C&D directly to the downloader's ISP supposably has always been an option. Laws however likely making that process even more complicated, yet I don't even want to discuss that angle as I'm currently no law expert on it. Though it has been always more practical to send the C&D to the tracker, thus breaking the download process if the tracker takes the stuff down. Or they talk to the fansubbers themselves. BitTorrent was easy to control, and the corps want to keep it that way.

But as soon as corps go after the downloaders, the downloaders and everyone involved begin to look into other means of distribution, as so had happened to previous P2P networks in the past. Heck, we could soon see here a Japanese P2P model, where nobody knows of who's downloading what, where, and when. Or that much I can assume. ...But it would be better to get more information from the Japanese RAW providers.

[Calawain]

1) I'm not sure I would categorize the response here as relatively "calm." I mean what were they expecting? Ravenous 13 year olds going OMGZ I WANTZ MY NARUTOZ for 30 pages? The people that post here are a bit more mature and that and capable of figuring out that what Odex was apparently trying to do (whether it be by mistake or not) wasn't going anywhere. In fact, it's terrible PR to try and sue your fans, look at the RIAA. Also, we aren't stupid, we realize that they have a weak legal standing to pursue claims in the US, nor the financial resources to do so.

2) What fans here do realize is that you can't just sue people and not offer an alternative. Odex has an extremely poor business model by offering substandard products and trying to sue everyone that doesn't buy them. Welcome to the 21st century people, if you want to survive as an anime distributor you need to get into online distribution. This thread just shows that people know that you need to offer online paid services for shows that are currently airing if you want to be successful.

3) Maybe the companies are worried about licensing shows too early that won't be successful? But I really don't see how that's a tenable claim. There are several shows this season that are either part of previous franchises or buy great studios/creators and are 90-100 percent future license guarantees. Shows like Gundam 00, Clannad, Genshiken 2, and Shana II should have been licensed before they even aired, then you could sell downloadable subbed versions a week or so after airing. There's close to zero risk, these shows will sell, just look at the amount of fansubs downloaded.

4) This goes to show how poorly written and implemented the DMCA is, hopefully Congress does something about rewriting copyright law sometime soon. They really need to address the digital age, just like the anime companies do.

[bayoab]

Originally Posted by Calawain

4) This goes to show how poorly written and implemented the DMCA is, hopefully Congress does something about rewriting copyright law sometime soon. They really need to address the digital age, just like the anime companies do.

Congress has sort of attempted to rewrite the DMCA a couple of times. Needless to say, since companies that want to aggressively defend their copyrights have lobbyists, they have only looked worse. (Example)

[Ranko]

Problem is many of the legit downloads are encumbered with DRM shit, and chained to the windows os.

They need to work within a new idea, rather than just using what is already there.