[Manga] Chapter 386 Discussion

[tatami]

nice too see his bastard face lol

[Sasuke_Bateman]

This chapter is very confusing, why does he want Sasuke when Sasuke doesn't even have the MS!!

[Crusader]

This definitely came as a suprise, but it had to when the explanation seems so bs. If thats kishi's final answer then i'll go with it. I really don't see Itachi dying by Sasuke's hand, but maybe he will indeed go blind. Of course he could be offed by one of the last remaining Akatsuki members.

[Ori]

Itachi used to be much cooler than his brother... but now that his brother become calmer and stronger while Itachi goes insane....

[Mists]

Hmm...so Madara killed his bro for eternal mangekyuo? Okay, so maybe they were on an even level since they had both awaken Mangekyuo at the same time.

But now Sasuke has no disadvantage with Itachi's Mangekyuo disabled, although it looks like he's trying to use it.

So in the beginning Itachi knew about this thing and waited until Sasuke activated it? But it seems too late because Sasuke still hasn't (or has he?)

Damn this is a bit much, everyone wants a piece of Sasuke, first Oro and his body and now Itachi and his eyes...

So Kakashi must be losing his sight as well?

Still, wonder why Obito is 1-eyed....Unless he bro still exists and they traded eyes!

So Itachi is just obsessed with his own capacity? He doesn't even really care about Akatsuki?

Things need to get explained....

[Grimkill7]

Well there should no longer be any debate about who's a better ninja. Jiraiya is and always been a better nin than Itachi. Even in death. We all know Jiraiya would never lose his cool.
Is Kisame like the only sane Akatsuki member in this series? Do they all have to flip out at the last second? Let's run this down.

Zetsu = Multiple personalities ftl.
Pein = Thinks he's God.
Konan = Thinks Pein's God.
Sasori = Killed his parents and turned them into puppets... and then himself.
Deidara = ... moving on.
Hidan = Religious nutbar.
Kakuzu = Taking on half the leaf and still thinking he can win? Yeah sure.
Itachi = *see Deidara*

[Rurik]

Originally Posted by Sazelyt

I think that in a different way.

So, We see that in a different perspective.

That is really strange. The way the script is written, it is giving the impression that after Madara received the MS-eye from his brother, he was able to get rid of all the possible problems with the eye, including the possibly eyesight loss his brother should have been suffering.

Yes, I guess that the mystic way of getting the MS, applies for the eternal MS, Getting the eyes from your brother, and this erase any eye problem the MS you a taking has.

Originally Posted by Sazelyt

Let the character death march be played for our dear Itachi:

Spoiler for Once upon a time, he was a cool ninja!:

It seems the Sharingan has the ability to copy insane villain Laughs, take a look:

Spoiler:

Well, officially Itachi is out of my favorite list, this laughter took away any cool factor I saw in him, god speed Itachi! I wonder if this is what Kishi referred about of making all the fans Happy, I doubt that any fan, even those who didn’t like Itachi, found this amusing.

I got to give credit to Kishi, you need very big balls to take a character with such an extended fanbase, and do this, it could mean that his decision on the plot are not necessarily created to favor the fans…

[SemiRayman]

Sooooo Itachi's coolness has gone right down the pan, cant say i was expecting that one...doubt Sasuke was either to be honest haha. I couldnt stop staring when i saw his insane face, couldnt quite believe it was him!!!

Hopefully Kakashi won't go blind because of the MS but i am still confused as to how he gained it, considering what Itachi told Sasuke? Any ideas?

[Sagittarius]

Man it's ONE FRIGGIN PICTURE!!!! Who cares? Itachi is still the best character in the manga, however it seems more likely that he'll die now. Most characters who are insane, display total insanity, or pure emotion and intensity, well, they usually bite the bullet to say the least.

Now this is my understanding; Madara spammed MS, then as a result of him going blind he figured that he'd replace his failing eye sight with that of his equal in apparently both skill and genetics...his brother.

He then obtained an eternal MS as a result.

I don't see why there is so much confusion about why Madara wants Sasuke's eyes, because the answer is simple, he doesn't.

Itachi does.

Why?

So he can obtain the same eternal MS and maybe even immortality that Madara has obtained.

As far as taking Kakashi's sharigan, well there are two flaws.

1) Kakashi only has one eye anyways......2 is better than one wouldn't you say?
2) This is the most important factor, stealing your brothers eyes is simply the equation. Think about it. Itachi has stated he faked acting like a real loving brother to Sasuke, so that Sasuke would want to surpass him i.e the competition factor, and Sasuke is his brother, which is the other half of the equation.

Brother(Genetics)+Skill+MS (possibley) = Eternal MS, that's the recipie and Itachi is following it perfectly.

Whether Sasuke needs MS or just a fully developped Sharigan is unknown. When he encountered Itachi during the Tsunade arc Sasuke only had activated two tomoe by that point, hense "I have no interest in you yet"

The plot holes become sticky when these factors are brought into play.
1) Does Itachi simply want to remain Madara's accomplish? Or does he have his own agenda in surpassing him? I doubt the latter because he speaks so highly of him.

2) However on the flip side Madara seems more interested in SASUKE. So what are Madara's intentions? Zetsu stated Sasuke was dead, as well as Tobi, This information was relayed to the rest of Akatsuki, however Itachi knew better.

Madara then shows up and tells Pein to catch the Kyuubi (Itachi's former assignment) but first Pein directly asks him "what happened to Sasuke?" Then Madara spews some jargon
"Sharigans powers were shown well, his eyes will surpass Itachi's, the machine is ripened his mind is made up, it won't be long now."

What the hell does that mean? It seems like Madara lead Itachi down one path, only to totally blind side him? "Sasuke will you shed your scales and turn into a hawk", and the whole his eyes will surpass Itachi's, it won't be long now. Itachi though CLEARLY KNOWS that Madara is alive. So it's not like he is not in the loop, but at the same time it seems like he's being cut out of it....

What in the blue hell is going on????

You would assume that Madara has you know, a deeper connection with Itachi, a clan member/accomplish/student. Yet he goes on to tell Pein in secrecy all this crap about "you catch the kyuubi" and Pein automatically knew about Sasuke and had apparent interest in him.

Nothing makes fucking sense......Plus EARLIER it was stated that the Kyuubi had to be caught and sealed last, and they still have the eight tails to catch, so why assign Pein to catch the Kyuubi ASAP. Again I'm so confused, but I think/hope that Kishi has somthing up his sleeve........I hope


EDIT: Also, when Itachi went to catch Naruto in the Tsunade arc, he didn't give a shit about Sauske, you would think if your main goal is to obtain eternal MS/power, that you would want to provoke or check in on your as far as you know only source for obtaining this....Yet he didn't even think twice about Sasuke, he was focused directly on Naruto....

The more I think about it the more abstract and obsurd this plot twist seems......

[Quzor]

Originally Posted by Sagittarius

Nothing makes fucking sense......Plus EARLIER it was stated that the Kyuubi had to be caught and sealed last, and they still have the eight tails to catch, so why assign Pein to catch the Kyuubi ASAP. Again I'm so confused, but I think/hope that Kishi has somthing up his sleeve........I hope

I've given up on them ever catching any more of the tailed beasts. They haven't even discussed the tailed beasts since however many chapters ago it was that Madara told Pein to capture the Kyuubi. That, coupled with the fact that none has been sealed since the Yonbi, makes me believe that this whole thing was just some sort of ruse to make everyone think their true goal was world domination, when most of the Akatsuki members were just being used to further Madara/Pein's own personal interests. Hell, they're dying to quickly to be able to seal any of these beasts for much longer. Is it possible for only 2-3 of them to seal a bijuu? Who knows, but it sure would take a long damn time (It took 10 of them 3 days).

[chord]

I don't think Itachi knows his little brother as much as he thinks I think Sasuke might me holding something back. Like A Seal Level 3, that could kill Sasuke if he uses this technique.
Either way I see this fight being the down fall of Sasuke and Itachi forever.
I think that if Sasuke is abel to go Level 3 with his seal.
He may even be stronger than Madara. I think that in the end Sasuke may be able to kill Itachi, or maybe able to weaken him to point of complete blindness
but back to an interview where Kishi says that as the story goes on Sasuke will become weaker and less of a geniouse compared to Naruto.
I still haven't see him being weaker, but less of a geniouse that is true.
What about Kabuto?

[CJL13]

It seems the one weakness of the Uchiha is that you have to kill your BFF to get the MS and sibling to get the eternal MS, if pretty much every Uchiha didn't want them dead. I mean Sasuke wants to kill Itachi, Itachi wants to kill Sasuke, already killed his best friend and half the clan including his parents, Madara killed his bro and half the clan. Also I was also a fan of the emotionless Itachi. I want to know how the English dubbed Naruto is gonna be able to do this scene with Mr. Monotone though!

[David_The_Gnome]

Originally Posted by tatami

nice too see his bastard face lol

I think people are putting too much stock into Itachi's maniac expression; It's only 1 picture.

Why can't a cool calculated villian show a wider range of emotion?

Just think if we caught him taking a dump, fixing his hair, or painting his nails or something.

What kills his badassness for more for me was knowing that he needed Madara's help in wiping off the Uchiha clan. lol weakling.

[Rurik]

Originally Posted by David_The_Gnome

I think people are putting too much stock into Itachi's maniac expression; It's only 1 picture.

Why can't a cool calculated villian show a wider range of emotion?

I think is easy to tell, part of Itachi cool factor was determined exactly by having no face expression at all, he looked cold and calculating. IM sorry, but Itachi could be very evil and all that stuff, and Kishimoto could had still left him without that Maniac look.

And this is coming from a person who started liking this series because of Itachi (thank god I dropped the Uchiha from my nick some time ago).

What kills his badassness for more for me was knowing that he needed Madara's help in wiping off the Uchiha clan. lol weakling.

Sorry, but this is no indication of Itachi been weak, this is just an affirmation that the Konoha MP was indeed powerful, powerful that a high level Shinoby can't take it out by Himself (including in this case, Madara)

[Sakuranbo]

Yeah may my Kisame fanboyism flourish with Itachi's rapid decline in fans. Erm...anyway, I gotta say that hopefully there will be a good explanation to all of the events prior to this meeting.

And as for sanity amongst the Akatsuki, I'm pretty sure being an insane douche is a prerequisite for joining, however there are a few exceptions, MILD yet few: Konan (seems quiet and what's with paper?), & Kisame, possibly is the sanist one of them all despite his appearance.

[Ero-Senn1n]

About Itachi's crazy smile picture:

If Itachi really is affected by blindness then it is natural that he makes such a face, going blind really can make you mad

If Itachi is still acting then making such a face is simply part of his acting where he wants to look to Sasuke evil as Madara.

[Suna no tate]

Hmm... no one seems to have posted the full spoiler yet on this site. Well here it is

Spoiler for Full confirmed spoiler:

Verification: Confirmed
Source: NF
Credits: Sho (translation)
Script Translation
「九尾を手懐ける瞳力…それ以外にも何かあるってのか？」
"There's something else besides having the eyes to tame the Nine-Tails?"

イタチ「そうだ…そのもうひとつの秘密　それが最も重要な秘密だ」
Itachi: "Yes. And that remaining secret is the most important one."

サスケ「重要な秘密…？何だ？」
Sasuke: "Important secret? What is it?"

サスケ「何だ？教えろ…」
Sasuke: "Answer me! What is it?"

イタチ「少し昔話をしてやろう　うちはの歴史にまつわる話だ」
Itachi: "I'll tell you a little story. One dealing with the history of the Uchiha."

「かつてマダラにも兄弟がいた…弟だ　幼き頃より二人は互いの力を高め合い競い合った」 競い合った"
"A certain Uchiha Madara once had a brother of his own...a younger brother. When they were young, they competed against each other, both growing in power."

「そして二人は写輪眼に開眼し　兄弟の名は一族の中でも特別なものになっていった
"As a result they awakened to the Sharingan. They became known as special brothers even within the clan."

二人は成長を求め競い合い　兄弟はついに万華鏡写輪眼を開眼したのだ」競い合い
"By seeking growth via competition against one another, the brothers finally attained the Mangekyou Sharingan."

「それはうちは一族始まって以来の事だった　そして兄弟はその瞳力うちはを束ね
"That was from the beginning of the Uchiha clan. So with their powerful eyes, the brothers took control of the clan."

兄のマダラはリーダーになった　しかし順調だったマダラの身にある異変が生じ始める
"The older brother, Madara, became leader. However, strange abnormalities began to grow upon his otherwise healthy normal body."

さっき話したな…この眼は特別だと　使えば使うほど封印され行き着く先は全くの闇
"I said it before...these eyes are special. The more you use them, the closer the complete darkness approaches which seals it away."

これが万華鏡写輪眼の末路だ　大きな瞳力を…力を得る代わりにその力は自ら閉じ　光を失う」
"This is the end of the road for the Mangekyou Sharingan. In exchange for that great power...you will shut your 'eyes'...parting with the light."

「マダラは光を取り戻すためあらゆる手を尽くすが何一つ効果を得られるものはなかった "
"Madara exhausted all means for the sake of returning his light, but nothing was effective."

絶望した　そして万華鏡に取り憑かれたマダラは光を求め…」
"He despaired. And so, possessed by the Mangekyou, Madara sought the light..."

マダラ「許せ…」
Madara: "Forgive me."

弟「ぎゃああああ」
Younger brother: "Gyaaaaa!!"

イタチ「自ら弟の両眼を奪い取ったのだ」
Itachi: "He plucked his brother's eyes."

「マダラは新たな光を手に入れた　そしてもう二度とその眼の光は閉じることがなかった
"Madara gained a new light. And never again was his light ever shut away."

永遠の万華鏡写輪眼！ 弟の眼は新しい宿主を得ることで永遠の光を手に入れたという…」
"The eternal Mangekyou Sharingan! Being the new host for his brother's eyes is what is said to give him a new light."

「そしてそればかりか変化を起こした　特有の新しい瞳術がその眼に生まれたのだ
"And so, whether it was just that or not, it caused a change. A unique doujutsu was born from those eyes."

ただし瞳のやりとりは一族間でしか行えない　それにこの方法で誰もが新しい力を手に入れるわけ ではない」
"This is all provided that the exchange of eyes would not be done outside the clan. And by this method, no one would know how to acquire this new power."

「これはその後の多くの犠牲者の歴史の上に築かれた事実…それがこの眼のもう一つの秘密だ」
"After that, a reality of countless victims piled up over the course of this history... That is the remaining secret of these eyes."

「マダラはその力を使いあらゆる忍一族を次々と束ねていった　そして忍最強と謳われていた
"Having those powers, Madara brought all the shinobi clans, one by one, to heel.* And so he was called the strongest of all shinobi."

森の千手一族と手を組み新たな組織を設立したのだ　その組織こそが後の木ノ葉隠れとなる」
"Joining hands with the Mori no Senju clan (or can be read as the "Senju clan of the forest"), a new establishment was founded. It was that establishment that became Konohagakure."

「その後マダラは千手一族のリーダーであった後の初代火影と里の方針を巡って対立　その主導権 争いに
"Afterwards, Madara met with the leader of the Senju clan who would later become the Shodai Hokage, and with whom which he had a confrontation over matters of village policy. The conflict over the right of leadership."

敗れはしたが　マダラは今もその瞳力と共に在り続けている」
"Though defeated, Madara continues on even now along with the power that lies in his eyes."

「新たに“暁”を組織し　その影に姿を隠してな」
"The shadow of his newly organized "Akatsuki" does its part to hide his visage."

「十六年前　九尾が木の葉を襲った事件はもちろんマダラが起こしたものだ
それも四代目によって阻止されてしまった」
"It goes without question that the attack by Kyuubi upon Konoha that 16 years ago was caused by none other than Madara. It was prevented regrettably by the Yondaime."

サスケ「！」
Sasuke: !

イタチ「今のマダラは負け犬だ…うちはの高みを手にするのは奴じゃない　…あの男　マダラを超 え本当の高み へと
近づくのはこのオレだ　そして今！ ! オレはマダラを超える力をようやく手に出来る！
Itachi: "Madara as he is right now is a failure. He isn't the one who will attain the heights of the Uchiha. The one who is getting closer of attaining that true height, of surpassing that man, Madara...is me. And it's now! I finally will be able to get the power of surpassing Madara!"

イタチ「サスケェ！！お前はオレにとっての新たな光だ！」
Itachi: "Sasukee! You are my new light!"

サスケ「！」
Sasuke: !

イタチ「お前はオレのスペアだ！！元来うちは一族は万華鏡写輪眼の為に友と殺し合い…
Itachi: "You are my spare! The Uchiha clan originally had friends kill one another for the Mangekyou Sharingan-"

永遠の瞳を得るために親兄弟で殺し合い　そうして力を誇示し続けてきた汚れた一族なのだ！
"To attain the eternal Mangekyou Sharingan, they had brothers kill each other. And by doing so they stained their hands with blood, continuing to display their power."

そしてその一族の中に生れ落ちた時からお前も　この血塗られた運命に巻き込まれている！
"And so, you too are enveloped by this blood-stained destiny, from the very time you were born within the clan!"

さあ来い！弟よ！オレはお前を殺して一族の宿命から開放され本当の変化を手にする！
"Now come, brother! Once I kill you, I will liberate the clan from its destiny and attain true change!"

制約を抜け　己の器から己を解き放つ！」
"I will drop my limits and release myself from my "capacity"*!"

～サスケ回想
~Sasuke flashback

イタチ「お前とオレは唯一無二の兄弟だ　お前の越えるべき壁としてオレはお前と共に在り続ける さ」
Itachi: "We are unique brothers, you and I. I act as the wall you must overcome, so that you and I can continue existing together."

イタチ「お前はこのオレを越える事を望み続けてきた　だから生かしてやる…オレの為に」～
Itachi: "You continued hoping to surpass me. That's why I let you live...for my sake."

イタチ「オレ達は互いのスペアだ！それこそがうちはの兄弟の絆なのだ！」
Itachi: "We are each other's spares! That is what binds us as brothers of the Uchiha!"

イタチ「どうやら心の中のオレがちゃんと見えたようだな」
Itachi: "Seems you were able to see enough of my true self."

サスケ「全てはこの為か…」
Sasuke: "So it was all for this..."

～サスケ回想
~Sasuke flashback

サスケ「名はうちはサスケ　嫌いなものならたくさんあるが好きなものは別にない
Sasuke: "Name: Uchiha Sasuke. Lots of things I don't like, and I don't really like anything."

それから…夢なんて言葉で終わらす気はないが　野望はある　一族の復興と　ある男を必ず」
"And I have no intention leaving the word as "dreams". I have ambitions. The resurrection of my clan, and...-"

「殺すことだ」　～
"...to kill a certain man."

サスケ「やっと…たどり着いた」
Sasuke: "All or nothing...this is it."
　
おわり
End

*Means that it was under Madara's control
**Itachi used the word "onore" 己 which can refer to either Itachi or Sasuke. I believe it's referring to Itachi though.

I thought as much. The MS is just too powerful to leave alone even if the costs are so high. The village would probably still encourage having at least a nice group of MS users.

here's what bothers me though. The spoiler seems to say that you have to physically take the guys eyes and use them as your own to have the eternal MS. However the MS can be gained by just simple hardwork as Madara and his brother did. So how did itachi get it? Through hard work? And why didn't he just take Shisuis eyes when he had the chance since he killed him? I figure the eyes don't have to have the MS before you steal them for them to have it later on: aka look at kakashi. Obito didn't have the MS but kakashi developed it after exposure to it during his fight with itachi. Finally even if you slowly go blind with the MS, why not encourage the development of the MS anyway and just treat it like all the other forbidden jutsus: give a warning, use in only extreme situations, and so on. Simply going blind isn't enough to completely deter MS development as the uchiha clan did and even more ninja can still be extremely skilled and high level despite being blind.

[tatami]

so sasuke kills itachi and gains MS without the side effects and rule the manga once and for all...

[Mists]

Sorry, this 'revelation' isn't really clicking.

Ok here we go...

Madara and his brother gained MS, Madara stole MS because of the darkness, but if they had MS at the same time his brother would've been going blind as well. So both eyes would be rendered useless.

What's with Madara's only one eye?

So, Madara, who helped create the Leaf and creator of Uchiha created a shrine about the eyes secrets so that one day another would recognize it and follow his path?

Only Itachi discovers the secrets...after all this time...everyone in the Leaf village don't know what the shrine is about and it in fact mentions that MS can control Kyubi?

Now that Itachi discovers the secrets Madara wants the clan to be wiped out so that no one else can achieve the secrets? But they spare Sasuke because of the spare? So Madara was really looking for only one successor after all that hard work on building that shrine and encoding the secrets?

WTF?

I thought the shrine would be for everyone to follow the path and tell the truth?

This just isn't making any sense?

And now Sasuke knows the secrets somewhat though I guess the blindness aspect wasn't written on there...

We need more info on the night the clan died? No one in Konoha intervened? No one detected Itachi or even Madara, not even the 3rd? What did the 3rd know, the 4th, etc...

And wtf is Jiaraya's revelation with Pein? And now with Madara going against Naruto directly, now what?

All these plots are turning into a mess. Does Kishi really know what he's doing?

[tatami]

all yhese questions you are asking shows that he exactly knows what he is doing...