(L) Zero kara Hajimeru Mahou no Sho

[DemonneoPT]

I guess Zero was actually serious regarding not letting the mercenary die. She might have done dubious things in the past but i believe her intentions regarding the mercenary are pure! Also, i really like the way Thirteen and Zero interact with each other. They are always in conflict due to different ideals but in the end, they actually care for each other.

[Blueknight78]

Originally Posted by Tenzen12

Trusting Thirteen equal trusting own instinct and common sense. Trusting Zero goes against both. Mercenary can't loose anything by running from Zero but he can loose life if he stays. Thirteen just pointed on something obvious mercenary forgot for reasons he don't know himself.

Even if there is 1% he say truth, it's still worthy of believing, because mistake means death

yeah and was that 1% which lead him to "almost die" if not was for zero magic reflection.

and how exactly trusth on her goes against "sense" if so far she didn't a single thing to make "sense fear or doubt her" for me make more sense keep believing on her" than on him, cuz tried to attack then and don't care about him while her multiples times showed caring about him, i can go with the "instinct" but the "sense part srry, believe on her on that point made much more sense than believe on him.

and don't forget in the end not was him which break apart was her after be frustrated with him being easy fooled by 13(ofcourse cheating using spells is unfair but this only was possible due to him not full trusted on her yet).

you must remember which he no just "meet her" they already together for a good amount of time(days, weeks or maybe even months), this could be enough to already build some trusth specially when the other side is doing literally "nothing" suspicious to make you doubt of her.

[Twi]

I'm not holding that against him. He's spent his life getting crapped on because he's been a Beastfallen. You can't go through that and expect full trust on one side rather than the other. 13 was making some convincing points that Mercenary had no evidence to go against. The magic just made it an absolute that he'd run, rather than him sitting down and talking with Zero about it. And he had years to get to know Zero compared to a few weeks.

The current episode alone showed what happened when he tried to open up afterwards. Zero was just an exception to the rule, but just because you meet the one exception doesn't mean you lose all doubts about them over the course of a few days or weeks.

And he only nearly got killed because he decided he didn't want to take part in the Witch Hunts after being used by the Tavern Girl. If he never overheard their conversation and didn't get kicked out, he wouldn't have run into those witches and the idiot wolf.

[Blueknight78]

Originally Posted by Twi

I'm not holding that against him. He's spent his life getting crapped on because he's been a Beastfallen. You can't go through that and expect full trust on one side rather than the other. 13 was making some convincing points that Mercenary had no evidence to go against. The magic just made it an absolute that he'd run, rather than him sitting down and talking with Zero about it. And he had years to get to know Zero compared to a few weeks.

The current episode alone showed what happened when he tried to open up afterwards. Zero was just an exception to the rule, but just because you meet the one exception doesn't mean you lose all doubts about them over the course of a few days or weeks.

yeah the big point was the magic, otherwise he could not just run and attack her like a crazy, if it was just "his words" and not magic trick behind he could not attacked her/acted like a crazy and tried to talk with her or be more unde caution near her not go blind full trust his words as he did due to the magic effect.
Even with the points i really doubt the result could be the same if 13 did not used magic to blind his toughts.

for me this episode was more about how really a good person he is to the point of even in one day already start to easy believe in peoples which indeed can be something dangerous, trust is something to be build which was what was happening behind him and zero, mercenary still want to be a "human" then this make him desesperated to get accepted by anyone (specially humans), while he learned to live as a beastfallen he still want be a human.

[ReddyRedWolf]

Something I realized about Thirteen... Basically he is Mordo at the end of Dr. Strange.

He sees what is wrong with the world is too many Witches who would misuse magic. Thus his solution is culling them.

[Blueknight78]

episode 8

wow now i really want to see again peoples saying which 13 is a good guy and he just want to save everyone,

basically almost everything so far is his fault, he plot the sorena death and want to annihilate every witch, i'm start to believe which he really was the one which killed everyone on the cave and put the blame on the others witches to zero making her believe which was others witches fault, this guy is really a big manipulative person, and finally the "trap" was revealed and indeed our "trap is really a girl acting like a boy, but she's don't have the book which could means which or she/he hidden the book or give it to someone else to hiden.

really interesting episode, now for peoples which don't know we really have our big villian which is just you cliche villian which like to act like he is a good guy, but is a wolf in a skin of a sheep.

[AB079]

And now 13 ended on being the bad guy, I was expecting a different POV for him instead of the usual "he's the evil, our main characters are the good guys" cliche. Really disappointing.

This episode was mostly a let down for me, nothing remarkable aside from falling for the usual cliches.

[FlareKnight]

Originally Posted by AB079

And now 13 ended on being the bad guy, I was expecting a different POV for him instead of the usual "he's the evil, our main characters are the good guys" cliche. Really disappointing.

This episode was mostly a let down for me, nothing remarkable aside from falling for the usual cliches.

Did anything change in this episode? I see nothing that occurred in this episode that goes against what he's been since his introduction. Of course he'd keep Zero trapped, she's not going to do what he tells her. From the start he was telling her to stay in the cave or go back and wait there. His interactions with Albus have been consistent. Being the granddaughter of Sorena there is value to recruiting Albus and symbolic value in execution. Either will cripple the spirit of the Witches of Zero through recruitment or spur them to fight through death. Either way it will be easier to deal with them.

While he's sending assassins at the end of the episode they aren't on a mission to kill. He's simply using the most efficient group he can think of. He needs Mercenary and Albus safe and unharmed. They both have value.

I'm not sure he's any more good or evil than he's been from the start. He has an extreme viewpoint. But nothing in this episode was evil for the sake of evil. Just a logical progression of his established character.

[Blueknight78]

Originally Posted by FlareKnight

Did anything change in this episode? I see nothing that occurred in this episode that goes against what he's been since his introduction. Of course he'd keep Zero trapped, she's not going to do what he tells her. From the start he was telling her to stay in the cave or go back and wait there. His interactions with Albus have been consistent. Being the granddaughter of Sorena there is value to recruiting Albus and symbolic value in execution. Either will cripple the spirit of the Witches of Zero through recruitment or spur them to fight through death. Either way it will be easier to deal with them.

While he's sending assassins at the end of the episode they aren't on a mission to kill. He's simply using the most efficient group he can think of. He needs Mercenary and Albus safe and unharmed. They both have value.

I'm not sure he's any more good or evil than he's been from the start. He has an extreme viewpoint. But nothing in this episode was evil for the sake of evil. Just a logical progression of his established character.

yeah being the one which started all the war between humans and witches and ploting sorena death releasing a curse of infestation in a "town" don't make him "more evil" than what he already being, yeah i can see it if you already aware of him being what he is a big deceiver which will do whatever it's take to have what he want.

[AB079]

Originally Posted by FlareKnight

Did anything change in this episode? I see nothing that occurred in this episode that goes against what he's been since his introduction. Of course he'd keep Zero trapped, she's not going to do what he tells her. From the start he was telling her to stay in the cave or go back and wait there. His interactions with Albus have been consistent. Being the granddaughter of Sorena there is value to recruiting Albus and symbolic value in execution. Either will cripple the spirit of the Witches of Zero through recruitment or spur them to fight through death. Either way it will be easier to deal with them.

While he's sending assassins at the end of the episode they aren't on a mission to kill. He's simply using the most efficient group he can think of. He needs Mercenary and Albus safe and unharmed. They both have value.

I'm not sure he's any more good or evil than he's been from the start. He has an extreme viewpoint. But nothing in this episode was evil for the sake of evil. Just a logical progression of his established character.

I like you intentionally avoided mentioning the entire background explaining what happened with Sorena.

Up to the last episode almost everyone except a few users pointed that 13 has some parts of the way he thinks that are right because he's on a different side and even some of his thoughs about zero are right but now that we get the whole picture he just fall under the "bad guy" tag, making it another usual cliche, simple as that.

As for 13th's point of view and the way he acts, that applies to all the 3 different factions in the story, everyone has a extreme way to do things for their own reasons, don't forget his conversation with Albus and how he literally cornered him because everyone is pushing their points of view over the rest to do what they think is right, is just that we have Zero and the Mercenary as the good guys in this story, which leads to the idea of "everyone against them is wrong". Most people used to have some hopes regarding 13, like being a different type of enemy and the "logical progression" is nothing else than just saying he will follow the usual pattern of every evil character.

[Blueknight78]

Originally Posted by AB079

I like you intentionally avoided mentioning the entire background explaining what happened with Sorena.

Up to the last episode almost everyone except a few users pointed that 13 has some parts of the way he thinks that are right because he's on a different side and even some of his thoughs about zero are right but now that we get the whole picture he just fall under the "bad guy" tag, making it another usual cliche, simple as that.

As for 13th's point of view and the way he acts, that applies to all the 3 different factions in the story, everyone has a extreme way to do things for their own reasons, don't forget his conversation with Albus and how he literally cornered him because everyone is pushing their points of view over the rest to do what they think is right, is just that we have Zero and the Mercenary as the good guys in this story, which leads to the idea of "everyone against them is wrong". Most people used to have some hopes regarding 13, like being a different type of enemy and the "logical progression" is nothing else than just saying he will follow the usual pattern of every evil character.

because exactly some peoples want the famous "gray zone" characters, which they can easy be fooled by the cliche villian "mind trickster" which know exactly what to say to confuse the characters and even readers to believe which maybe he is not "that evil" when he was just using his skills in say what some peoples want to hear to deceiving them.

that season we have at last 3 deceivers villians counting with 13, which know how to use words to make then looks rights and reasonable.

[Twi]

Umm, Thirteen didn't do the false flag operation that framed Sorena. Whoever "Him" is did, the one who killed everyone but Thirteen and Zero, and unless we get evidence otherwise I'm sticking to it.

[Blueknight78]

Originally Posted by Twi

Umm, Thirteen didn't do the false flag operation that framed Sorena. Whoever "Him" is did, the one who killed everyone but Thirteen and Zero, and unless we get evidence otherwise I'm sticking to it.

why not??? this make a lot of sense, he want to get riddle of all others witchers and only him and zero surviving, so far he is deceiving and manipulating peoples to war against witches, he is keep zero locked in the tower with his magic, make perfect sense he is being the one behind sorano death, because that is what started the war and witch hunter which is one of his goal aslong get the book and zero and lock all in the cave with him.

[James Rye]

This makes the whole sex slaves jokes just funnier.

I have a feeling that Thirteen plans to rule the country himself, why else would he try to make the people believe that his "sorcery" is good and the witches magic evil while keeping the king under his control? Once all magical competition is gone he can do whatever he wants.

Wolf guy became more likeable after knowing his background story, though he really should have focused more on finding the grandchild than fooling around with women and making three of them his sex slaves. Then again he's a noble who had a threesome in the house of another noble, so yeah. <.<

[frubam]

Originally Posted by Blueknight78

why not??? this make a lot of sense, he want to get riddle of all others witchers and only him and zero surviving, so far he is deceiving and manipulating peoples to war against witches, he is keep zero locked in the tower with his magic, make perfect sense he is being the one behind sorano death, because that is what started the war and witch hunter which is one of his goal aslong get the book and zero and lock all in the cave with him.

Elements of this make sense, but others conflict. If his goal is to kill all witches, then why keep Zero alive? Considering how powerful she is, keeping her locked up indefinitely doesn't' seem like a viable strategy if she doesn't serve any purpose. It seems to me, after seeing him stopping the knight PHYSICALLY from harming Mercenary, he is genuinely concerned about Zero, and because of that, I feel that he felt the same way about his comrades in the cave.

In addition, it's hard to believe Sorena was set up by Thirteen because she too thought the spread of magic was being done incorrectly. It makes more sense if this mystery person set up Sorena because of her way of thinking, and since her and Thirteen somewhat agree on the book's usage, it would be illogical of him to set her up while the mystery person gets away.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by James Rye

This makes the whole sex slaves jokes just funnier.

I have a feeling that Thirteen plans to rule the country himself, why else would he try to make the people believe that his "sorcery" is good and the witches magic evil while keeping the king under his control? Once all magical competition is gone he can do whatever he wants.

I think it's about more than getting rid of the competition. He wants big crowds of people excited and thinking the same thing so he can use his mind control magic to build on it and bring them under his sway. Once he controls enough of the populace, even the king won't be able to get rid of him. (Outliving his usefulness has to be a serious concern for him anyway, as a sorcerer working for an anti-magic government.)

[Blueknight78]

Originally Posted by frubam

Elements of this make sense, but others conflict. If his goal is to kill all witches, then why keep Zero alive? Considering how powerful she is, keeping her locked up indefinitely doesn't' seem like a viable strategy if she doesn't serve any purpose. It seems to me, after seeing him stopping the knight PHYSICALLY from harming Mercenary, he is genuinely concerned about Zero, and because of that, I feel that he felt the same way about his comrades in the cave.

In addition, it's hard to believe Sorena was set up by Thirteen because she too thought the spread of magic was being done incorrectly. It makes more sense if this mystery person set up Sorena because of her way of thinking, and since her and Thirteen somewhat agree on the book's usage, it would be illogical of him to set her up while the mystery person gets away.

becase she is a prodigy and probably strong than him them he want to keep her as his "source of power" since she showed being able to create some magics trought her book, he clear want her "alive" as his source of magic, it's not new and another very old cliche, the vilian keep someone alive because he is important in one way like a source to provide him with more power, as we see while she don't want to be locked forever she also don't looks like really want to kill him and like any villian he can try over time change her mind, remember he is good a "brainwash peoples" he just need time to try it on her and since mercenary life is linked to her life he need him alive as long this link still existing in the moment he find a way to break it or make her finish it them he can get riddle of the mercenary.
and indeed serena tought about wrong but she don't wanted a "war" or witch hunter as him, she wanted it be made in a proper way which opposed on 13 vision which is no one have rights to have that power besids him or "his choose" ones.

[Kyral]

Originally Posted by Blueknight78

why not???

This is actually a pretty good question. He's a villian, no doubt about that.
But we can already see him as such a villian, 13 also being "Him" wouldn't come as any suprise.
My reaction would be more like: "Ah... yeah... good for him, I guess..."

[Twi]

But then it wouldn't make sense. "Him" has the Grimoire of Zero, has Sorcerers of Zero, and knows magic better than anyone other than Zero and maybe Thirteen. If Thirteen was Him... he doesn't need to do this roundabout crap. Take all those things above, add in the fact that he lives in the same castle as the king and knows magic to at least influence people, meaning he's had plenty of chances to enthrall the king and be done with it. The witches would be his army and he wouldn't be burning them all to death when they could just overrun the capital and king.

Thirteen has an end-goal. "Him" is powerful enough to where Thirteen has resorted to stealing the magic of others in order to become strong enough to face him, but it isn't enough. Thirteen needs an army and power and resources to fight against them and bring order, so he's going about getting that now.

He had no ideal Zero left the cavern at first and would prefer her not to get involved now, so he cuts off all her outside lines and keeps her locked away like a canary in a gilded cage as he gets ready to lead an all-out assault on the guy because he's fanning the flames and making things worse. Turning Albus to his side would be a powerful tool, but killing Albus would also work just as well by depriving the Sorcerers of a figurehead and making them rash enough to attack so he can wipe them all out at once.

Yes, Thirteen is an asshole. He's pragmatic. He's an antagonist. But, he's not the sole antagonist. We're in a position where it's Him vs Thirteen, with Zero and Mercenary trying to just get the Grimoire back before things escalate further.

Not to mention, Albus would definitely notice if it was Him. They'd been in the same room all the time and he taught him (or her) magic. The story really only works as its set up if there's a greater villain here, not if Thirteen is playing both roles.

[blakstealth]

Goddammit, I didn't even expect Albus to be the granddaughter. And it looks like 13 figured out that there's some sorcery going on with Mercenary and Zero's transfer of inflicted damage. I also wouldn't be surprised if he was the one that manipulated all those rats to start the plague. If what he did in the previous episodes to control that rat was any indication....