The Syria Crisis

[Cosmic Eagle]

Originally Posted by solomon

Well The Big Man is gonna break into all regular programming tonight, over the Big Three, Cable News and even PBS, so this is the make or break hard sell.

(I think a good chunk of the populace will be distracted by MOnday Night Football however).

Anyone seen any good inkling of just what we would do militarily, besides chuck missles...........somewhere? That's a problem I have with this operation, the vagueness of it.

If Chemical Weapons are really so bad, we would knock down Assads door and drag him out.....but we won't.

This is lip service in the form of missles.

Said the same thing in Libya....No-Fly Zone my ass

[Ridwan]

Originally Posted by ganbaru

Somehow it feel like Assad had time to waste on this one...

Assad reeeeaaallly needs to go.

[AnimeFan188]

Originally Posted by solomon

Well The Big Man is gonna break into all regular programming tonight, over the Big Three, Cable News and even PBS, so this is the make or break hard sell.

(I think a good chunk of the populace will be distracted by MOnday Night Football however).

Anyone seen any good inkling of just what we would do militarily, besides chuck missles...........somewhere? That's a problem I have with this operation, the vagueness of it.

If Chemical Weapons are really so bad, we would knock down Assads door and drag him out.....but we won't.

This is lip service in the form of missles.

Report: US Plans '3-Day Attack' on Syria:

"The US military is planning a more extensive military operation against regime targets
in Syria than had been previously planned, according to a report by the Los Angeles
Times.

Unnamed "US officers" told the paper that the Pentagon is drawing up plans for 3 days
of strikes against a list of targets significantly longer than the original list of 50, though
it is still expected to be more a "show of force" than an attempt to influence events on
the battlefield.

According to the report, the US military could utilize Air Force bombers, in addition to
five US missile destroyers currently patrolling the eastern Mediterranean Sea. The plan
would include two waves of strikes: an initial barrage against the extended list of
targets, to be followed by a secondary one which would aim to strike missed targets,
or those which hadn't been destroyed by the first."

See:

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/171677


Of course, this assumes that Congress will approve. It would be interesting to see what
Obama does if the plan makes it through the Senate, but gets shot down in the House.


================================================== =======


Syria backs Russian proposal for regime to hand over chemical weapons:

"The Syrian government said Monday that it backed a Russian proposal calling for Damascus to hand
over its arsenal of chemical weapons to international authorities in a bid to avoid a U.S. attack."

See:

http://www.latimes.com/world/worldno...,3744754.story



If this proposal works out, maybe there won't be an attack after all.

[SaintessHeart]

Originally Posted by Ridwan

Assad reeeeaaallly needs to go.

I wonder if US is actually trying to make amends for letting Iraq be flipped over to the Shi'ites, which they don't have deals with as compared to the Sunni.

[Jinto]

Originally Posted by AnimeFan188

...The plan
would include two waves of strikes: an initial barrage against the extended list of
targets, to be followed by a secondary one which would aim to strike missed targets,
or those which hadn't been destroyed by the first."
...

So they basically admit, that their weapons are not as precise and deadly as they always make everyone believe?

I hope they choose some targets far away from cities (I never trusted "smart" bombs and "intelligent" cruise missiles - neither do I trust google translate).

[SaintessHeart]

Originally Posted by Jinto

So they basically admit, that their weapons are not as precise and deadly as they always make everyone believe?

I hope they choose some targets far away from cities (I never trusted "smart" bombs and "intelligent" cruise missiles - neither do I trust google translate).

I don't remember anything with a blast radius to be precise.

[Ithekro]

Chance of error and chance of interception are factors.

One can only be as precise as the technology allows. When run in on a laser designator, the chance of a miss is entirely human error with the laser, or not launching from an angle wer it can follow the laser to the target hole (if going into a window or some such thing.

Another error would be not taking into account other objects between the launch platform and the target. The bomb or missile might be highly accurate, but will still go off if it hits something before it reaches the target. Like a low level GPS guilded missile going from point A to B, but someone failing to realize there is a skyscraper inbetween those points.

[Xellos-_^]

i wonder if it is too late to redraw the boundaries for Mid-East State along ethnic lines. Like it should have been instead of this British drawn monstrosity.

[Sumeragi]

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^

i wonder if it is too late to redraw the boundaries for Mid-East State along ethnic lines. Like it should have been instead of this British drawn monstrosity.

Ethnic lines are a myth, at least for almost all of the world except perhaps Japan and Korea.

[SaintessHeart]

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^

i wonder if it is too late to redraw the boundaries for Mid-East State along ethnic lines. Like it should have been instead of this British drawn monstrosity.

I thought they belonged to the French?

[Zakoo]

Consider that the rest of the world thinks the same thing about themselves and Japan/Korea.

[SaintessHeart]

Originally Posted by Zakoo

Consider that the rest of the world think the same thing about themselves and Japan/Korea.

If there is any place closer to outright distinction of ethnicity it would be Malaysia, or maybe Indonesia, or even South East Asia for the matter. Malay v Chinese v Indian v Indigenous (usually reserved for Filipino because of their rather Spanish culture as opposed to the British ones throughout SEA) v Caucasian. The Chinese faction is further split into Hokkien, Teochew, Hakka, Hainan, etc, much like the English clans, while the Indians are split between Tamil, Malayalam, Punjab, Telugu, Sindh, Sikh, etc........sometimes I wonder which moron had to make classification so difficult.

If it wasn't for the bloody trade route and rubber the British/Dutch/Spanish wouldn't come down here to divide and conquer, with consequences still felt a century later as each group tries to keep to themselves, afraid of others' "impurity". Across the straits we have the Bumiputera and over here we have Chinese supremacy.

Though I must admit the secret police here actually did a fine job of locking these bastards up. It is a pity we don't enslave these supremacists and allow them to prove their superiority through unpaid public works.

[Jinto]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

Chance of error and chance of interception are factors.

One can only be as precise as the technology allows. When run in on a laser designator, the chance of a miss is entirely human error with the laser, or not launching from an angle wer it can follow the laser to the target hole (if going into a window or some such thing.

Another error would be not taking into account other objects between the launch platform and the target. The bomb or missile might be highly accurate, but will still go off if it hits something before it reaches the target. Like a low level GPS guilded missile going from point A to B, but someone failing to realize there is a skyscraper inbetween those points.

Laser guided weapons are kinda old school. Image recognition (or target recognition) even "path finder" algorithms seem to be the latest tech gadgets. Its way easier to manage from a tactical and risk management* point of view (make some flyby images [satelite/drone/scout]... feed it into the targeting system of the missile, press fire... and forget... verify a day later what you hit and how heavy - rinse and repeat).

The only problem is, its more error prone than humans.

*risk management as in minimizing risks for your own troops at the cost of a higher chance of colateral damage.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by AnimeFan188

Syria backs Russian proposal for regime to hand over chemical weapons:

"The Syrian government said Monday that it backed a Russian proposal calling for Damascus to hand
over its arsenal of chemical weapons to international authorities in a bid to avoid a U.S. attack."

See:

http://www.latimes.com/world/worldno...,3744754.story



If this proposal works out, maybe there won't be an attack after all.

At this point the proposal is the only thing that can stop America in its tracks. Whatever reason they had to bomb the country, it isn't for the chemical weapons. Taken the weapons out, and Russia can dare America to attack anyway and make a clown out of themselves. As for Assad, he can always make more Sarin later.

[SaintessHeart]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

At this point the proposal is the only thing that can stop America in its tracks. Whatever reason they had to bomb the country, it isn't for the chemical weapons. Taken the weapons out, and Russia can dare America to attack anyway and make a clown out of themselves. As for Assad, he can always make more Sarin later.

But....but......Raytheon is going up!

[ganbaru]

Originally Posted by AnimeFan188

Syria backs Russian proposal for regime to hand over chemical weapons:

"The Syrian government said Monday that it backed a Russian proposal calling for Damascus to hand
over its arsenal of chemical weapons to international authorities in a bid to avoid a U.S. attack."

See:

http://www.latimes.com/world/worldno...,3744754.story



If this proposal works out, maybe there won't be an attack after all.

I wonder if the ''special cargos'' on those Russian warship going to the region are related to this proposal.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by ganbaru

I wonder if the ''special cargos'' on those Russian warship going to the region are related to this proposal.

The proposal is too recent, from a joke from Kerry. He accidentally suggest that the missiles can be avoided if the weapons are handed over/destroyed. Now he had to backpedal.

Look, the missiles in theory are just about "punishing Assad". Which is really no more than random murder to me. The missiles are going to kill people, people who likely have nothing to do with chemical weapons. And what do we gain out of it? Innocent people dying to prove a point?

It would save money if Assad just ships a number of his supporters to America as sacrifice to receive lethal injections. That's about as useful as firing cruise missiles into a country with no goal. Seriously, America is proposing pointless murder.

[Jinto]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

...That's about as useful as firing cruise missiles into a country with no goal. Seriously, America is proposing pointless murder.

Sometimes a good pretext is everything you need to get your weapons export business going. Nothing sells as easy as proven hard/software.
Need more goals?
The destabilization of Syria means that Iran basically lost a proxy in the region. It even binds other proxies of Iran in the region (i.e. Hezbollah).
Its kinda sickening, that a civil war is seen as an acceptable means to "solve" disputes with another regime.
The forces at work here do not want either side in Syria to win, this is meant to level the playing field... to make this destabilization continue as long as possible.
The colateral damage in the process is basically tolerated.
Just one more goal:
Manny sunny extremists (i.e. al qaida) are fighting among the rebells in Syria. Basically Assad's regime is doing some of the "work" for the allied forces in Afghanistan (as in keeping these extremists busy). Not that he has much of a choice in the matter.
But dont think I pitty people like Assad. They would not shy away to use just the same strategies. What irks me though, is that western forces would fight on that niveau... with the support of a "democratic" president.

[ArchmageXin]

You know, sometimes I wonder about U.S Presidents, who each profess to a follower of Christ.

Saddam falls---> lead to nearly 1 million iraqi Christians, suddenly without Saddam's protection to have their church burned and priests/worshipers massacred.

Mosei Mubarak falls ---> hundreds of thousands of Egyptian Christians suffer ethic cleansing.

Muammar Gaddafi falls ---> Christians in the areas become free targets for Radicals.

And just in, Christian village in Syria just fell into Al-Qaeda hands, with soon-to-be-predictable results.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-...activists-say/

And here is Obama about to take on Assad, which is pretty much the last barrier that is preventing another Christian themed massacre.

Am I seeing a pattern here?

[Fireminer]

Well, Muslim kill each other; Orthodox, Christian and Protestant kill each other. Don't know about the rest, but maybe Buddhism is the mose peaceful of the bunch?