AnimeSuki Forums

momobunny · 2011-01-20, 19:25

I hope the ending isn't really depressing, a happy ending would be ideal. If I put up with more of what happened in this episode only to have it end badly, then I'll probably be really depressed after watching it.

omimon · 2011-01-20, 19:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Random Wanderer

The "with no return" was the important part of that. Descent into hell WITH a return into the light is entirely different from descending into hell and ending there.

So long as everyone important gets brought back, I can live with that.

You don't like characters dying do you?

aeriolewinters · 2011-01-20, 19:29

Quote:

Did anyone notice how nearing the end of the ED animation, the Madoka changes from short-haired to long-haired?

Suggestion of a timeskip?

Fishbait · 2011-01-20, 19:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by scr

Did anyone notice how nearing the end of the ED animation, the Madoka changes from short-haired to long-haired?

I thought her hair is always fairly long, but just tied in ribbons.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clarste

As for Mami's body, we didn't actually see it, but we see a broken teacup spilling a red liquid next to the grief seed. And it's pretty obvious what that's symbolic of.

Hmm, you should rewatch the scene again. (Oh and we're not using spoilers now...?)

After the witch is defeated, a pile of black stuff roughly the size of a torso falls out of the witch and lands on a table further away. Homura looks at it then looks away, tells Sayaka and Madoka this is what it means to be a magical girl. THEN we see the seed falling on a closer table with the broken teacup.

Clarste · 2011-01-20, 19:53

I saw that stuff, but you're just assuming that it's the remains. Well, to be fair I'm pretty sure that they wanted you to think that. In terms of "proving" that the character is dead though I think the teacup is the strongest evidence.

Mentar · 2011-01-20, 19:55

Let's not be fooling ourselves, Mami is dead. Homura warned her before the fight. We saw her surprise and fear when Mami's finishing move failed. We saw how the witch bit off her head and then jumped after the falling headless corpse to devour it. And in the end, the defeated witch dropped Mami's cup - broken.

Does that mean that she's gone forever? Well, not necessarily. A miracle might get her back. The main reason why I don't see it happening in the next episode is rather on the meta-level: Mami's role in the show has been fulfilled. She gave us insight in the life of MGs, and boy, does it suck. She also showed that this is no fun game for girls, but a lifethreatening quandary. Bringing her back now would only lessen the impact of her death. The soonest miracle roll I could see the storywriter give her would be ep12.

Just a side-remark: Did you guys notice that the dead Mami didn't leave behind a soul gem, but a grief seed? (Assuming that the seed isn't from the witch - at least, Homura didn't object to Sayaka's "That's Mami's..." complaint) You're aware what that means? What witches most likely are, in the end?

This blood grinder is a truly nefarious racket... this is Mai HiME all over.

panzerfan · 2011-01-20, 19:56

More than one person have stated that wishing a person to be bought back to life is a taboo that wish fulfilling genre will not normally cross. The premise of many anime revolve around just this, while others, such as Fullmetal Alchemist and even Nanoha use this as a significant plot element.

It remains to be seen what Gen wishes to here.

By the way, the grief seed belongs to Charlotte. Look at 21:50.

k//eternal · 2011-01-20, 19:56

Excellent, the witch this time is completely different stylistically and doesn't move at 3 FPS. That's a good sign for the rest of the enemies to come.

As for the story progression I think it's all been said by now, haha.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mentar

Just a side-remark: Did you guys notice that the dead Mami didn't leave behind a soul gem, but a grief seed? (Assuming that the seed isn't from the witch - at least, Homura didn't object to Sayaka's "That's Mami's..." complaint) You're aware what that means? What witches most likely are, in the end?

This blood grinder is a truly nefarious racket... this is Mai HiME all over.

I interpreted it that way at first, but the icon on top is different. Maybe it mutates when you die, though? I'd believe that.

Mentar · 2011-01-20, 20:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by k//eternal

I interpreted it that way at first, but the icon on top is different. Maybe it mutates when you die, though? I'd believe that.

This is absolutely 100% a grief seed. I rechecked from ep2 and 3.

orion · 2011-01-20, 20:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Random Wanderer

The "with no return" was the important part of that. Descent into hell WITH a return into the light is entirely different from descending into hell and ending there.

So long as everyone important gets brought back, I can live with that.

The Mephisto (1981) from which that ED pic came from is prob not reassuring.

Madoka is crying in the OP and in a pic of Mephisto in the ED. Good ending is not what this is foreshadowing.

Clarste · 2011-01-20, 20:05

Faust has a happy ending. In Goethe's version anyway, which is the one referenced by the show.

Fishbait · 2011-01-20, 20:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mentar

Let's not be fooling ourselves, Mami is dead. Homura warned her before the fight. We saw her surprise and fear when Mami's finishing move failed. We saw how the witch bit off her head and then jumped after the falling headless corpse to devour it. And in the end, the defeated witch dropped Mami's cup - broken.

Does that mean that she's gone forever? Well, not necessarily. A miracle might get her back. The main reason why I don't see it happening in the next episode is rather on the meta-level: Mami's role in the show has been fulfilled. She gave us insight in the life of MGs, and boy, does it suck. She also showed that this is no fun game for girls, but a lifethreatening quandary. Bringing her back now would only lessen the impact of her death. The soonest miracle roll I could see the storywriter give her would be ep12.

Just a side-remark: Did you guys notice that the dead Mami didn't leave behind a soul gem, but a grief seed? (Assuming that the seed isn't from the witch - at least, Homura didn't object to Sayaka's "That's Mami's..." complaint) You're aware what that means? What witches most likely are, in the end?

This blood grinder is a truly nefarious racket... this is Mai HiME all over.

I think Sayaka yelled that because she felt that witch should have been defeated by Mami and therefore the seed belongs to her.

People in great emotional pain tend to have not the most rational logical thought process.

creb · 2011-01-20, 20:06

Now I feel bad for thinking Mami's smile was hiding some evil psycho girl.

Kind of knew something bad was going to happen with all the flags being thrown throughout the episode.

Good to know that this is definitely not going to be a typical magical girl show. I mean, we were all 99% sure, but now it's confirmed.

So...one has to wonder...without Mami just being there as inspiration, what's going to push Madoka into making a contract.

Also, until it turned out Mami wasn't really an evil psycho, I really thought it was awfully coincidental for that grief seed to show up where it did. It seemed like it was all orchestrated on purpose to pressure Sayako into making a contract. Now, I'm not sure.

I still think Kyubei is not what he seems, but who knows at this point. For someone who isn't allowed to pressure the choice, he sure seems awfully eager to get the girls to sign contracts.

I'm still in the dark about Homura's motives. She doesn't seem to want Madoka to become a magical girl. The insinuation is due to her potential. Compounded by her ambivalence towards Sayako. But, it makes no sense, since she could easily just kill Madoka if she really was some power-hungry magical girl on a power-trip. There's something there, which I think is going to be central to the story as we move forward.

Mami's warning about making wishes for others. I assume at some point Sayako is going to make a wish concerning her crush stuck in the hospital, and it'll end up biting her in the butt. But, I have to wonder. Will Madoka make the same mistake? Wish for Mami to return to life or something along those lines?

fukarming · 2011-01-20, 20:07

My opinion of this show will drop dramatically if they bring people back from dead. I hate shows doing that just to make a good ending (Mai Hime comes to mind). If you don't want people dead then don't kill them in the first place!

Mentar · 2011-01-20, 20:07

Mmmh. Urobuchi Gen is no blind cruel slaughtermaster, he did write several "good" endings for his games, too. I do give the show a realistic chance for a "good" ending, but it will be bittersweet at best, no sugar bomb. And anything until then will get from bad to worse.

Midonin · 2011-01-20, 20:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clarste

Faust has a happy ending. In Goethe's version anyway, which is the one referenced by the show.

That's the thing with contracts. There's always a loophole. And if someone is willing to go Daniel Webster on Kyubey (a man who keeps his wit about him is a respectable man indeed), then things just may turn out alright. That is what I'm optimistic for.

Fishbait · 2011-01-20, 20:10

Let's not forget about the other main theory behind this episode - Mami did it on purpose to trick Madoka/Sayaka into forming the contract and wishing her back. Should always stay open to possibilities

Oh and here's a gif about the *body* topic that has been menioned

Spoiler for witch's defeat in gif:

Random Wanderer · 2011-01-20, 20:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mentar

Mmmh. Urobuchi Gen is no blind cruel slaughtermaster, he did write several "good" endings for his games, too. I do give the show a realistic chance for a "good" ending, but it will be bittersweet at best, no sugar bomb. And anything until then will get from bad to worse.

It doesn't have to be all sugar and sweetness and puffy clouds and fields of flowers and what-not, but I do insist that all the girls be alive for the ending.

orion · 2011-01-20, 20:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clarste

Faust has a happy ending. In Goethe's version anyway, which is the one referenced by the show.

Spoiler for Faust:

Mentar · 2011-01-20, 20:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by creb

Mami's warning about making wishes for others. I assume at some point Sayako is going to make a wish concerning her crush stuck in the hospital, and it'll end up biting her in the butt. But, I have to wonder. Will Madoka make the same mistake? Wish for Mami to return to life or something along those lines?

I maintain what I wrote after ep2: My speculation (which I will herewith upgrade to even money bet level) is that the prior example for a "wish for someone else's sake" that Kyubey talked about comes from Homura, who wished that Madoka ceased being a Magical Girl. And at the moment, Kyubey is screwing over Homura by first granting the wish (Madoka now lives as a normal girl), but slowly snaring her to lure her back into the blood grinder.

View Poll Results: Madoka Magica - Episode 03 Rating
Perfect 10	118	56.19%
9 out of 10 : Excellent	58	27.62%
8 out of 10 : Very Good	23	10.95%
7 out of 10 : Good	4	1.90%
6 out of 10 : Average	2	0.95%
5 out of 10 : Below Average	1	0.48%
4 out of 10 : Poor	0	0%
3 out of 10 : Bad	1	0.48%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad	1	0.48%
1 out of 10 : Painful	2	0.95%
Voters: 210. You may not vote on this poll

2011-01-20, 19:25	Link #41
momobunny ◔ ◡ ◔ Artist Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: ImaginaryLand Age: 33	I hope the ending isn't really depressing, a happy ending would be ideal. If I put up with more of what happened in this episode only to have it end badly, then I'll probably be really depressed after watching it. __________________

2011-01-20, 19:56	Link #47
panzerfan Name means little... Graphic Designer Join Date: Dec 2004	More than one person have stated that wishing a person to be bought back to life is a taboo that wish fulfilling genre will not normally cross. The premise of many anime revolve around just this, while others, such as Fullmetal Alchemist and even Nanoha use this as a significant plot element. It remains to be seen what Gen wishes to here. By the way, the grief seed belongs to Charlotte. Look at 21:50. __________________ It would be enough for the depressing things in life to only exist in reality. It is because that I think the birth of a story... is from people dreaming of a happy ending. ~Misaka Shiori

2011-01-20, 20:07	Link #54
fukarming Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009	My opinion of this show will drop dramatically if they bring people back from dead. I hate shows doing that just to make a good ending (Mai Hime comes to mind). If you don't want people dead then don't kill them in the first place! __________________ They came first for sharks fin,I didn't speak up because I don't eat sharks fin. Then they came for foie gras,I didn't speak up because I don't eat foie gras. Then they came for Toro (bluefin tuna) sushi,I didn't speak up because I don't eat sushi. Then they came for me and force me to be a vegan by that time no one was left to speak up.

2011-01-20, 20:10	Link #57
Fishbait Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006	Let's not forget about the other main theory behind this episode - Mami did it on purpose to trick Madoka/Sayaka into forming the contract and wishing her back. Should always stay open to possibilities Oh and here's a gif about the body topic that has been menioned Spoiler for witch's defeat in gif: Last edited by CrowKenobi; 2011-01-20 at 20:24. Reason: Put image in thumbnail because it is too large to post in plain IMG tags.

2011-01-20, 19:53	Link #45
Clarste Human Join Date: Aug 2004 Age: 37	I saw that stuff, but you're just assuming that it's the remains. Well, to be fair I'm pretty sure that they wanted you to think that. In terms of "proving" that the character is dead though I think the teacup is the strongest evidence.

2011-01-20, 19:55	Link #46
Mentar Banned Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Hamburg Age: 54	Let's not be fooling ourselves, Mami is dead. Homura warned her before the fight. We saw her surprise and fear when Mami's finishing move failed. We saw how the witch bit off her head and then jumped after the falling headless corpse to devour it. And in the end, the defeated witch dropped Mami's cup - broken. Does that mean that she's gone forever? Well, not necessarily. A miracle might get her back. The main reason why I don't see it happening in the next episode is rather on the meta-level: Mami's role in the show has been fulfilled. She gave us insight in the life of MGs, and boy, does it suck. She also showed that this is no fun game for girls, but a lifethreatening quandary. Bringing her back now would only lessen the impact of her death. The soonest miracle roll I could see the storywriter give her would be ep12. Just a side-remark: Did you guys notice that the dead Mami didn't leave behind a soul gem, but a grief seed? (Assuming that the seed isn't from the witch - at least, Homura didn't object to Sayaka's "That's Mami's..." complaint) You're aware what that means? What witches most likely are, in the end? This blood grinder is a truly nefarious racket... this is Mai HiME all over.

2011-01-20, 20:05	Link #51
Clarste Human Join Date: Aug 2004 Age: 37	Faust has a happy ending. In Goethe's version anyway, which is the one referenced by the show.

2011-01-20, 20:06	Link #53
creb Hiding Under Your Bed Join Date: May 2008	Now I feel bad for thinking Mami's smile was hiding some evil psycho girl. Kind of knew something bad was going to happen with all the flags being thrown throughout the episode. Good to know that this is definitely not going to be a typical magical girl show. I mean, we were all 99% sure, but now it's confirmed. So...one has to wonder...without Mami just being there as inspiration, what's going to push Madoka into making a contract. Also, until it turned out Mami wasn't really an evil psycho, I really thought it was awfully coincidental for that grief seed to show up where it did. It seemed like it was all orchestrated on purpose to pressure Sayako into making a contract. Now, I'm not sure. I still think Kyubei is not what he seems, but who knows at this point. For someone who isn't allowed to pressure the choice, he sure seems awfully eager to get the girls to sign contracts. I'm still in the dark about Homura's motives. She doesn't seem to want Madoka to become a magical girl. The insinuation is due to her potential. Compounded by her ambivalence towards Sayako. But, it makes no sense, since she could easily just kill Madoka if she really was some power-hungry magical girl on a power-trip. There's something there, which I think is going to be central to the story as we move forward. Mami's warning about making wishes for others. I assume at some point Sayako is going to make a wish concerning her crush stuck in the hospital, and it'll end up biting her in the butt. But, I have to wonder. Will Madoka make the same mistake? Wish for Mami to return to life or something along those lines?

2011-01-20, 20:07	Link #55
Mentar Banned Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Hamburg Age: 54	Mmmh. Urobuchi Gen is no blind cruel slaughtermaster, he did write several "good" endings for his games, too. I do give the show a realistic chance for a "good" ending, but it will be bittersweet at best, no sugar bomb. And anything until then will get from bad to worse.