Mobile Suit Gundam AGE - Episode 39 Discussion/Poll

[j0x]

Originally Posted by Om Nerabdator

true i cant wait to see his end game ^^

im hoping he will be the big bad at the end, that would be epic!!!

not gonna happen because this is a KIDS SHOW

[monster]

Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf

It isn't.

How is it not? Ezelcant himself said his definition of Eden is a world without war.

Ezelcant's revolution requires a lot of dead bodies for utopia. Ezelcant became insane because of his son's death.

That much is certain.

He did really think Kio was Romy reincarnated. This isn't Aquarion!

Believing his son would be reincarnated on Earth resulted to his self made religion that he is sucking the Vegan's with. That their souls would return to Earth.

I wouldn't go as far as to claim any of that. Ezelcant may be insane, but he's not that insane.

With a 20% death rate among Vegans, it was probably less when Ezelcant was not in charge, Ezelcant beliveid that is the natural order of things that the strong survive and the weak die.

The partial EXA-DB in his view validated his belief as humans always had cycles of war and peace. He wanted to make a war so terrible that humanity wont consider it.

Actually, according to this episode, Ezelcant is using the conflict to force humanity to evolve and create a superior race that will be intelligent enough (or so he imagines) to reject war on their own and thus create his ideal Eden.

But my point is, why is Ezelcant so adamant about this world without war when his own reality doesn't suffer much from it? Can't the writers for AGE choose a better reason? Failing that, they could've at least created a more appropriate setting.

I don't know, maybe they just want to show how much of a troublemaker Ezelcant is, creating a problem where there is none. But if that really is the intention, then he may just be the least interesting Gundam antagonist to me yet.

[j0x]

Originally Posted by monster

But my point is, why is Ezelcant so adamant about this world without war when his own reality doesn't suffer much from it? Can't the writers for AGE choose a better reason? Failing that, they could've at least created a more appropriate setting.

just a thought i have while reading that reply of yours, a criminal does not necessarily be expose to hardships like crimes in order to be a criminal

and as far as i know Ezelcant started this war because he is expose to so much human struggles like his kid dying and on mars where people everyday die by the hands of mars rays, so those life tests or life trials became subconsciously build up his ideal now on why and how he is doing Project Eden and why he is always testing humans on earth and mars

[monster]

Originally Posted by j0x

just a thought i have while reading that reply of yours, a criminal does not necessarily be expose to hardships like crimes in order to be a criminal

and as far as i know Ezelcant started this war because he is expose to so much human struggles like his kid dying and on mars where people everyday die by the hands of mars rays, so those life tests or life trials became subconsciously build up his ideal now on why and how he is doing Project Eden and why he is always testing humans on earth and mars

Well, criminals probably turn to crime because they think that's the preferred way to get what they want.

What does Ezelcant want? He wants a world where people don't have to suffer. The only problem is that the Vagans are not suffering because of war. So I still don't get why he's focused on that aspect of human problem when he should be focusing on the problem of adapting to harsh environments.

[ReddyRedWolf]

Originally Posted by monster

How is it not? Ezelcant himself said his definition of Eden is a world without war.

Where only the strong selected humans are alive. The war itself is his eugenics program.

I wouldn't go as far as to claim any of that. Ezelcant may be insane, but he's not that insane.

As Ezelcant said to Kio if he (Romy) was reborn before he did (Ezelcant never bothered to die extending his life by cold sleep. ) why can't he understand why he is doing this.

Spoiler for To Ezelcant Kio is Romy:

Actually, according to this episode, Ezelcant is using the conflict to force humanity to evolve and create a superior race that will be intelligent enough (or so he imagines) to reject war on their own and thus create his ideal Eden.

But my point is, why is Ezelcant so adamant about this world without war when his own reality doesn't suffer much from it? Can't the writers for AGE choose a better reason? Failing that, they could've at least created a more appropriate setting.

I don't know, maybe they just want to show how much of a troublemaker Ezelcant is, creating a problem where there is none. But if that really is the intention, then he may just be the least interesting Gundam antagonist to me yet.

As someone said in /m/ Ezelcant sounds like a JRPG villain. It comes down to what Age was originally intended, a game. Only Bandai came to the conclusion to increase profitability is to make an anime of its premise.

And it worked... Terribly!

[j0x]

Originally Posted by monster

Well, criminals probably turn to crime because they think that's the preferred way to get what they want.

then Ezelcant is a criminal by your definition of a criminal

Originally Posted by monster

What does Ezelcant want? He wants a world where people don't have to suffer. The only problem is that the Vagans are not suffering because of war. So I still don't get why he's focused on that aspect of human problem when he should be focusing on the problem of adapting to harsh environments.

like you already said criminal (like Ezelcant) preferred to be criminal in order to get what they want

and also he is focusing on human problem since he already stated that history proves time and time again that humans are violent creatures because they always compete over limited land and limited resources

Ezelcant dreams of children living in a good environment (for the sake of Romy) so that is why he takes it seriously to change the human aspect of hungry for violence just to not repeat the same harsh environment for future childrens

but to me the reason for excessive competition over limited (and declining) resources and limited land is overpopulation, Ezelcant could have just made a better contraceptive to decrease human population so that limited resources can be divided more equally among people for them to not excessively compete over resources to the point of violence, but i guess that will be out of the war story of gundam shows

[orpheus2]

You could say Ezelcant's end goal would be removing human's primal urge for war through another war that is essentially a eugenics program...

He failed to take into account how peaceful it is in the Federation since they learned their lesson about the horrors of war. Although, there was Fardrain and the fact that the higher ups are corrupt. Overall, it is peaceful. Ezelcant is just blinded by revenge to see it is possible to have peace without war.

[monster]

Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf

Where only the strong selected humans are alive. The war itself is his eugenics program.

Sure, but I'm not questioning his method. I'm questioning his motivation.

As Ezelcant said to Kio if he (Romy) was reborn before he did (Ezelcant never bothered to die extending his life by cold sleep. ) why can't he understand why he is doing this.

Spoiler for To Ezelcant Kio is Romy:

Well, that does sound a bit out there.

Originally Posted by j0x

then Ezelcant is a criminal by your definition of a criminal


like you already said criminal (like Ezelcant) preferred to be criminal in order to get what they want

Criminals are simply people who commit crime. But I'm not concerned with whether or not Ezelcant is a criminal.

and also he is focusing on human problem since he already stated that history proves time and time again that humans are violent creatures because they always compete over limited land and limited resources

Ezelcant dreams of children living in a good environment (for the sake of Romy) so that is why he takes it seriously to change the human aspect of hungry for violence just to not repeat the same harsh environment for future childrens

Except eliminating wars doesn't change all the other things that are killing humans. Like you said, overpopulation is one problem. Another problem is insufficient technology for humans to safely inhabit places like Mars.

That's why it doesn't make sense for Ezelcant to focus on the war issue, especially when that is not the biggest problem for the world of AGE prior to the Vagans attacking.

[ReddyRedWolf]

Or he could've built more colonies. But no he blows them up for his Social Darwinist agenda.

Ezelcant cited Colony Angel and Colony Nora as part of his experiment. Fardain was part of the program too by inciting old rivalries between the old Colony Alliances by giving them outdated MS technology.

Ezelcant was probably hoping to see which side will prevail while putting Vegan forces in that furball.

His original plan was likely a conflict between the Federation, Colonies and Vegan. Flit ruined that particular experiment by uniting Euba and Zalam to attack Ambat. Setting his time table out of schedule.

Now though Euba-Zalam doesn't directly go to war. They fight by proxy using Bisidian. Ract is the one bankrolling them.

Originally Posted by monster

Sure, but I'm not questioning his method. I'm questioning his motivation. Well, that does sound a bit out there. Criminals are simply people who commit crime. But I'm not concerned with whether or not Ezelcant is a criminal. Except eliminating wars doesn't change all the other things that are killing humans. Like you said, overpopulation is one problem. Another problem is insufficient technology for humans to safely inhabit places like Mars.

That's why it doesn't make sense for Ezelcant to focus on the war issue, especially when that is not the biggest problem for the world of AGE prior to the Vagans attacking.

You sound like Kio trying to rationalize a crazy man.

Ezelcant was helpless in saving Romy. Ezelcant set out to save the world by creating the problem in the first place and be its hero. In his eyes he would not be helpless as he is manipulating everybody.

Again it comes down to Ezelcant being insane came to the conclusion Social Darwinism is the answer.

As such Ezelcant is a pathological liar. He says he wants to save Vegans. What he wants is most of them dead. He says he wants peace. He denies peace to weed out the weak and create a strong race. One that can survive extremes.

He wants a peaceful new human race but it does not compute for him he is changing the human culture to be more warlike.

It boil down to not only is Ezelcant insane but utterly dumb. CCA Char level of dumb, believing wiping out Earth would force human to evolve to Newtypes. When Newtypes are mutations not an evolution of spacenoids.

Compared to Gundam 00's Aeolia Schenberg Ezelcant is a noob. Aeolia made a hands off plan to ensure not only peace but a plan for the survival of the human race. Uniting the world was to prepare it for first contact with alien races. Celestial Being, the ship, is an ark should things go south with Humans meeting an aggressive alien race.

[Dengar]

Don't get me wrong, that actually DOES sound like something Ezelcant could've done, but was it shown somewhere that the Vagans DID incite old rivalries? I thought that was just something that's been going on for generations.


That being said, it looks like Ezelcant really isn't thinking about the well-being of his people, it seems instead he wants to save humanity as a whole. Some of the higher-ups like that guy who was with Zeheart during G2, and maybe Zeheart seemed to have been aware of this although I can't be too sure. So really, he isn't a dark-hearted tyrant at all. He's one of those "Utopia justifies the means" guys. In that regard, all of his actions so far have made perfect sense.

[j0x]

Originally Posted by monster

Except eliminating wars doesn't change all the other things that are killing humans. Like you said, overpopulation is one problem. Another problem is insufficient technology for humans to safely inhabit places like Mars.

That's why it doesn't make sense for Ezelcant to focus on the war issue, especially when that is not the biggest problem for the world of AGE prior to the Vagans attacking.

well i already explain this on my previous replies (maybe in an implied way) but his killing of humans and this war is just his way to make human struggles/tests/trials as he said in order to test humans and further analyze humans for the purpose of selecting next evolved humans (project eden)

killing humans and this war is just a neccessary sacrifice to obtain what he wants (project eden), that is how i understand Ezelcants words in this episode

[monster]

Originally Posted by j0x

well i already explain this on my previous replies (maybe in an implied way) but his killing of humans and this war is just his way to make human struggles/tests/trials as he said in order to test humans and further analyze humans for the purpose of selecting next evolved humans (project eden)

killing humans and this war is just a neccessary sacrifice to obtain what he wants (project eden), that is how i understand Ezelcants words in this episode

It seems that you (and maybe ReddyRedWolf) still do not understand me.

I'll say it again, I'm not questioning Ezelcant's method. I'm not questioning the current war. It's hypocritical, but I'm not concerned with that now.

Yes, he's using the conflict for Project Eden. But remember that Eden is supposed to be a place without war. That's what I don't understand. Why is Ezelcant trying to create a place without war? Why is war so important when there are other more relevant problems to solve?

[Dengar]

Is there anything more relevant than strife?

[j0x]

Originally Posted by monster

But remember that Eden is supposed to be a place without war. That's what I don't understand. Why is Ezelcant trying to create a place without war? Why is war so important when there are other more relevant problems to solve?

i thought that was so clear since Ezelcant already mention that history proves time and time again that humans are violent creatures due to conflict for resources

if your saying why vagans started the war while in fact they should have focus on terraforming mars more well they failed to do that since they got no advance technology to do that and they do not have advance technology for treating mars rays disease either, all they have is the EXA-DB an advance collection of technology for war, so war is the obvious route given what they only know

and the EXA-DB is the prime example of why humans are violent creatures too
so im not gonna be surprise if Ezelcant despise EXA-DB too but he got no choice but to use it to make Project Eden work

[monster]

Originally Posted by Dengar

Is there anything more relevant than strife?

Is there anything killing the Vagans for decades, if not centuries?

Originally Posted by j0x

i thought that was so clear since Ezelcant already mention that history proves time and time again that humans are violent creatures due to conflict for resources

So? The Vagans were not suffering because of violent conflicts.

if your saying why vagans started the war while in fact they should have focus on terraforming mars more well they failed to do that since they got no advance technology to do that and they do not have advance technology for treating mars rays disease either, all they have is the EXA-DB an advance collection of technology for war, so war is the obvious route given what they only know

They also know how to build colonies. Maybe they should move away from Mars.

and the EXA-DB is the prime example of why humans are violent creatures too
so im not gonna be surprise if Ezelcant despise EXA-DB too but he got no choice but to use it to make Project Eden work

It still doesn't have any relevance to the current problem the Vagans are facing.

[Dengar]

Let me rephrase this:


Is there anything more relevant than strife that can actually be fixed?

[monster]

Originally Posted by Dengar

Let me rephrase this:


Is there anything more relevant than strife that can actually be fixed?

You think strife is something that can be fixed?

But to answer your question: Yes. Kio even offered a solution this episode, but it's clear that Ezelcant never intended to solve that particular problem. I guess he's trying to fix strife?

[j0x]

lol i gave up im just gonna enjoy the show, you do not need to make a full proof perfect story since that is expecting too much for a fiction work especially for a kids show like gundam age

[monster]

Originally Posted by j0x

lol i gave up im just gonna enjoy the show, you do not need to make a full proof perfect story since that is expecting too much especially for a kids show like gundam age

The reality is, I'm not even expecting a perfect story. I just wish they had a more fitting goal for the antagonist.

It's simple really, if they want Ezelcant to hope for a peaceful world, then make war a reality in AGE, rather than something that was limited to some independent colony before the antagonist shows up.

As it is, Ezelcant would fit better in UC or CE than in AGE. Heck, he could play a game of chess with Durandal of SEED Destiny and argue with him on what's the best way to stop war.

Oh my goodness, Ezelcant is Durandal reborn in the world of AGE. Now it all makes sense. He's still being influenced by his former life.

Hmm, Durandal - reborn - Ezelcant

[Dengar]

Well, I think it's been established as of this episode that Ezelcant has a bit of a one-track mind.

Also Durandal was TOTALLY different. For one, Durandal just wanted to see a world where everyone did what they did best and no one's potential to go unwasted.