[Manga] Is it still possible for Sasuke to be redeemed, or is he in too deep.

[Rachy]

Originally Posted by FateAnomaly

If he grieves for his brother, then shouldn't he respect his brother's wish to maintain peace in Konoha.

Itachi was sort of manipulated. At least used in Konoha's best interests.

shouldn't he seek revenge on Madara since he helped to kill them.

They were going to die either way anyway.

[Vindi89]

Originally Posted by Lady Rave

They were going to die either way anyway.

LOL. From old age maybe. If Itachi asked for Madara's help it means he couldn't accomplish it by himself. I don't see Itachi being the kind of person who would want to owe Madara a favor when he can do without it.

[Rachy]

Originally Posted by Vindi89

LOL. From old age maybe. If Itachi asked for Madara's help it means he couldn't accomplish it by himself. I don't see Itachi being the kind of person who would want to owe Madara a favor when he can do without it.

Madara was bitter towards the Uchiha/Senju and offered him a chance to get revenge without harming the rest of the village. Again putting Konoha first.. doesn't mean Itachi couldn't of done it alone. At first he accepted the mission and put it on himself.

[Rahan]

The manga is named from the plot device which allows Sasuke to do whatever he wants and still be redeemed in the end, so there is no way Sasuke won't have a happy ending.

[Vindi89]

Originally Posted by Lady Rave

Madara was bitter towards the Uchiha and offered him a chance to get revenge without harming the rest of the village. Again putting Konoha first.. doesn't mean Itachi couldn't of done it alone. At first he accepted the mission and put it on himself.

What? Itachi came to Madara asking for help..... I know you Uchiha fans ~love~ everything Uchiha and they can do no wrong, but seriously how are you only blaming Konoha for this. The Uchihas are just as guilty for presenting a situation and ignoring negotiations with the Hokage.

If I killed someone who was a few weeks away from dying (life-killing disease lets say), does that make me any less guilty for killing them?

Originally Posted by Rahan

The manga is named from the plot device which allows Sasuke to do whatever he wants and still be redeemed in the end, so there is no way Sasuke won't have a happy ending.

That would be funny if it becomes reality. (I liked the way you worded it previously).

[Rachy]

Originally Posted by Vindi89

What? Itachi came to Madara asking for help..... I know you Uchiha fans ~love~ everything Uchiha and they can do no wrong, but seriously how are you only blaming Konoha for this. The Uchihas are just as guilty for presenting a situation and ignoring negotiations with the Hokage.

He never went there asking for help.. He went there to offer a chance for Madara to settle his grudge against the clan that turned their backs on him without harming the village. And Konoha made the situation happen, I don't remember it being said they were ignoring negotiations. Konoha's discrimination of an innocent clan lead to everything.

[Mr. DJ]

They can redeem him if they want to...

Though he still ultimately goes to Hell....Vegeta was "redeemed" (though destroying planets and killing countless people over the years doesn't exactly go over well >.>)

Those of you who read the manga...has Sasuke done anything that would be called villainous? to innocent people? since all that I've seen...he's just been training.

[Vindi89]

Originally Posted by Lady Rave

He never went there asking for help.. He went there to offer a chance for Madara to settle his grudge against the clan that turned their backs on him without harming the village. And Konoha made the situation happen, I don't remember it being said they were ignoring negotiations. Konoha's discrimination of an innocent clan lead to everything.

Sasuke confirmed that Itachi wasn't good enough to kill off the entire Uchiha clan by himself. Madara at this time even said he was looking to rekindle the flames of war and had a grudge against konoha and Uchiha. Are you sanely willing to accept Madara as being free from any blame from this and that Sasuke should ignore his part played?

Allow me to clarify the bolded statement. It's not explicitly said in the manga that they were ignoring negotiations, however they had the sympathy of the Hokage and could have tried going that route before settling on a coup d'etat. Madara's word were "...time ran out." In this situation time can only run out if the coup d'etat was imminent.

[Rahan]

Originally Posted by DjTrizz

Those of you who read the manga...has Sasuke done anything that would be called villainous? to innocent people? since all that I've seen...he's just been training.

That's the most ridiculous in the story
I guess I should request a "How many Konoha ninjas will commit suicide and in front of Sasuke and how will they do it so that he can look villainous without killing anyone ?" thread.

[Mr. DJ]

Originally Posted by Rahan

That's the most ridiculous in the story

uh...wut?

Originally Posted by Rahan

I guess I should request a "How many Konoha ninjas will commit suicide and in front of Sasuke and how will they do it so that he can look villainous without killing anyone ?" thread.

ty for answering the question w/out completely sounding like a dick.

[Rahan]

Originally Posted by DjTrizz

uh...wut?



ty for answering the question...

I thought my post was interpretable as Sasuke has done nothing villainous yet since he only did some fighting and isn't even allowed to kill anyone, yet he is going at war against the good guys.

[Rachy]

Originally Posted by Vindi89

Sasuke confirmed that Itachi wasn't good enough to kill off the entire Uchiha clan by himself.

Yes because Sasuke knew what Itachi was really capable of..

Are you sanely willing to accept Madara as being free from any blame from this and that Sasuke should ignore his part played?

At the moment, yep.

Allow me to clarify the bolded statement. It's not explicitly said in the manga that they were ignoring negotiations, however they had the sympathy of the Hokage and could have tried going that route before settling on a coup d'etat. Madara's word were "...time ran out." In this situation time can only run out if the coup d'etat was imminent

Negotiations is totally made up. Sandaime was being shown as the good guy that wanted no one to die. But it's still Konoha's fault. And rightly stated so..

[Vindi89]

Originally Posted by Lady Rave

Yes because Sasuke knew what Itachi was really capable of..

Really... how about the fact that Itachi confirmed he did have help coupled with the fact that he SOUGHT Madara out for help.

Originally Posted by Lady Rave

At the moment, yep.

Based on your response here it's pointless to continue debating with you as your sense of right and wrong is totally skewed in respect to mines and the laws we use IRL.

Originally Posted by Lady Rave

Negotiations is totally made up. Sandaime was being shown as the good guy that wanted no one to die. But it's still Konoha's fault. And rightly stated so..

See my response above.

[Rachy]

Originally Posted by Vindi89

Really... how about the fact that Itachi confirmed he did have help coupled with the fact that he SOUGHT Madara out for help.

Yeah he said he had help which he did. He never sought Madara out because he needed help. He done it in an attempt to appease Madara's desire for revenge against Uchiha. In exchange he had to agree not to harm the rest of the village.

I don't really get the other part of the post but OK.

[Xrayz0r]

Are you sanely willing to accept Madara as being free from any blame from this and that Sasuke should ignore his part played?

Everything's on madara. If that guy hadn't been a shithead back in the days, there would have been no suspicion, no segregation, no need for a coup d'etat, and no need for killing the clan.

It's all on madara. If Sasuke doesn't realize, he's either dumb or willfully ignorant. Prolly both.

[HiroInazuma]

Originally Posted by Xrayz0r

Everything's on madara. If that guy hadn't been a shithead back in the days, there would have been no suspicion, no segregation, no need for a coup d'etat, and no need for killing the clan.

It's all on madara. If Sasuke doesn't realize, he's either dumb or willfully ignorant. Prolly both.

Actually didn't you realize, Sasuke wasn't paying attention to anything Madara said about himself, which is why Sasuke kept quiet and had his mouth opened, he was actually thinking 'Wow he knows something about Itachi...better not pay attention to what he is saying right now cos it is just old man babble...when he says Itachi I'll come back to reality' then Madara said kyuubi attack and then Sasuke accidently came back into reality and responded. Then Sasuke paid attention

[Xrayz0r]

Originally Posted by HiroInazuma

Actually didn't you realize, Sasuke wasn't paying attention to anything Madara said about himself, which is why Sasuke kept quiet and had his mouth opened, he was actually thinking 'Wow he knows something about Itachi...better not pay attention to what he is saying right now cos it is just old man babble...when he says Itachi I'll come back to reality' then Madara said kyuubi attack and then Sasuke accidently came back into reality and responded. Then Sasuke paid attention

Er.. that's one version of events.

Might be so, hadn't thought of that. In that case Sasuke might not be a retard, but it doesn't change the fact that Madara's to blame, and Sasuke's still a vengeful idiot with shitty morality.

Killing the village elders..... okay, but destroying Konoha altogether, that's plain stupid.

[Aimingan12]

Originally Posted by HiroInazuma

Unless Naruto has a kekkei genkei and a clan that got slaughtered he will never be important, Naruto's life is just a small part of Sasuke's story

But Naruto is the main character he is just as important as Sasuke and he has every right to be important in the manga and episodes,and it started with him from the beginning anyways.

[james0246]

Originally Posted by Lady Rave

Negotiations is totally made up. Sandaime was being shown as the good guy that wanted no one to die. But it's still Konoha's fault. And rightly stated so..

Well, realistically, Sarutobi as Hokage is Konoha. He is the supreme leader with control over everything (Konoha is a military organization with Sarutobi as the Head). But, Danzou and his cohorts decided that the Uchiha clan was trouble, and enlisted Itachi's participation in their destruction (behind everyone's backs). So, it is not Konoha that is evil, rather their are members of the society that have ill intentions towards the Uchiha's, so no matter how you phrase it, it is not "Konoha's" fault, it is three doddering old foggies that had to much time on their hands so they resorted to genocide. This is also why myself and others find it so difficult to understand the chronological events that occur. Specifically, did Sarutobi or the Uchiha's break-off the negotiations? Did Itachi act prematurely (for a clan about to go to war, the Uchiha sure were not prepared for any type of attack (otherwise there would have been more signs of struggle)...I wonder why?)? So many questions need to be answered before Konoha can be labeled either "good" or "evil".

That being said, Madara is a vengenful baby who has seemingly whined and complanied about Konoha since its foundation. So, basing any "facts" strictly on what he says, seems a little silly.

As to the thread question...Well, you are always redeemable, but the moment that Sasuke indiscrimantely hurts or potentially kills a Konoha shinobi, even if by accident, within the confines of the manga he will be irredeemable, and his downfall is all that waits for him.