2011-01-09, 21:15 | Link #41 | |
Me at work
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I think things started getting out of hand when moe started being viewed as a genre,since as others have said,moe is something subjective that was just originaly used to describe characters,not a whole show.The characters could come from any genre,horror included.
The only way to really define it as a genre is to say that a "moe anime" is an anime that has lots of moe characters in it,but since moe is subjective you're going to have a hard time putting bounderies around which anime fit the "genre" or not. Quote:
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2011-01-09, 21:16 | Link #42 | |||
Bittersweet Distractor
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 32
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Now I don't wish to bring up every moe anime in existence that has done this unless I have to, but it is a common problem. Sure you have animes like EF who don't, and actually make real characters (Probably why I highly value this as a romance no doubt), but it is a persistent problem I find in MANY shows, including the lauded trifectora of Air, Kanon, and Clannad. Now realize that this is the same as people criticizing shonens for lack of female development, criticizing the mechas for lack of original concepts about war, saying that the comedies use the same techniques over and over again, or what have you. The difference being, that for some reason you see criticisms like these stick, while the ones about moe don't. Do the criticisms on moe reflect all shows with the concept of moe? No. Do the criticisms that each of these other genres or types of stories elicit reflect every show in their respective genre? No. That's why I find it frustrating personally. Quote:
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So yes, I understand that moe is a feeling, and that the viewer is supposed to feel moe about certain characters. The problem is there is a lack of specifics on what the feeling "moe" is. We know what we feel when we are horrified, we know what we feel when we are sad/depressed... What exactly is this feeling of "moe?" To me, moe is about the same as liking a girl in a series. Am I wrong? I don't believe so. Sure some may argue that moe isn't gender specific, but whatever. It usually applies to girls, and USUALLY, it applies to girls doing cute things ala K-ON! The anime industry constantly create characters of stock archetypes that elicit the feeling of moe in their fan bases and profit off of it. This is where I think people who are not all that into moe become disillusioned. Instead of building actual characters, with realism and actual personality, you get these "moe characters" who may or may not have any further depth and whose sole purpose is often to just be that "moe girl."
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2011-01-09, 23:42 | Link #43 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: ¯\(º_o)/¯
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All is fair in moe and war.
Make moe, not war. Yea no one really understands what moe is until they actually experience it for themselves. Sorry just couldn't resist, I'll let you guys get back to your discussion now lol
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2011-01-10, 01:15 | Link #44 | |||
Pretentious moe scholar
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Age: 37
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Truth be told, I think that the moe fandom has a bit of a preference for characters that are either "weird and zany" or "large than life". Just compare the sales of EF, Sola, True Tears, and Taisho Yakyuu Musume to those of the Key quartet (I include Angel Beats), Haruhi, Bakemonogatari, K-On!, Working, Railgun, and the later Nanoha seasons. I'm of two minds on this: on one hand I prefer the EF style of characterization, on the other hand, it's hard to imagine Bakemonogatari without Hitagi, Working without its misfits, Nanoha without the white devil, or Haruhi without Haruhi and Yuki. And Misaka actually is the best thing about Railgun, its a shame the show isn't as awesome as she is. I also think its interesting to note the role of "mimetic humour" here. I find that the trend towards making the female tsundere who is sensitive about her flat chest as opposed to just a tsundere actually makes more sense if I think of the sensitivity about her boobs as mimetic humour rather than a moe point for the audience. Which of course doesn't make it any less excruciating. I guess you could say I agree with the criticism but think certain nuances should be recognized. (I should also note that I see Key's success as the result of a few more factors than just the characters but that a whole different topic.) Quote:
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Regardless of whether or not that's the case, I personally find that moe is much easier to understand after you've felt it for the first time. Makes my job difficult, I must admit.
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2011-01-10, 14:44 | Link #45 | |
Uguu~
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Canada
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2011-01-10, 20:46 | Link #46 |
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I ran across the following suggested definition of moe on another anime board, and I think it might be a good one for practical purposes, and constructive discussion:
1. "Moe," an adjective describing a feeling. This is a warm, fuzzy feeling that might be described as "DAWWWWW!!" and have overtones of wanting to protect or comfort someone. In principle, this feeling can be directed at almost anyone. 2. "Moe," an adjective describing a character. This is a descriptor of a character that is either a. known to elicit the aforementioned "moe" feeling in a wide variety of people, regardless of author intent, or b. designed to elicit the "moe" feeling through the use of certain traits, such as cuteness of appearance and quirks that are supposed to be endearing (e.g. verbal tics). 3. "Moe," an adjective describing a genre. This is a descriptor of a show whose plot and character designs are primarily meant to elicit that "moe" feeling toward certain characters. What I like about this above definition is that it recognizes that people can differ on what causes a moe feeling to arise in them ("moe" as an adjective describing a feeling) but also recognizes that, for practical discussion purposes, there are certain characters and character types that are more likely to be widely regarded as moe than other certain characters and character types ("moe" as an adjective describing a character). That being said, this definition is very much a shorthand one, and my own understanding of moe may run deeper than it... but, all the same, I think that it might make for a good starting point, at least, for any discussion on moe between anime fans who like moe, and anime fans who don't like moe or are ambivalent towards it.
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Last edited by Triple_R; 2011-01-10 at 21:38. |
2011-01-10, 20:53 | Link #47 | |
Dango Daikaizoku
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Southern California
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My point is that I feel like the complaint is that being moe somehow causes bad characters whereas I think that, while the two are correlated, one does not cause the other. There is nothing wrong with a character being moe, however I feel that there is a perception that having moe elements makes a character/show bad when I would argue shoddy characterization and poor adaptations make characters or shows bad independent of their moe properties. My concern is that people feel like they shouldn't like something if it is moe rather than basing their opinions on the actual quality of the show.
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2011-01-10, 21:28 | Link #49 | |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
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2013-01-25, 14:36 | Link #50 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2009
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Moe and What it Means to Us
What does moe mean to you?
To mean it means seeing a character who I want to protect, love, and care for like a older brother or a daddy. Thats why I like it, I like seeing girls and boys with big eyes and cute round faces. Why? Because they look like babies. I love babies, I think theyre really super cute! I even spend hours on youtube looking at babies. Theyre so adorable But anyway! I was reading articles on what moe means, and they say it has to do with a man feeling protection for a character b/c he or she looks like a baby. She has big watery eyes, super soft and fine hair, a round face, and a foreshortened distance between eyes and mouth. http://moeticjustice.blogspot.com/20...explained.html It makes total sense to me now, why I love moe so much. But there is also a sexual aspect to it as well. They say some moe fans like to see moe girls who are ready. I always thought that was weird, and now I know why. b/c I connect moe girls and boys to cute babies. To me, it makes the alarms go off in my head . But I know not everyone thinks about moe like me, so now I ask. So I know there are diff ways to see the moe. What ways do you see the moe in? Last edited by Kudryavka; 2013-01-25 at 14:53. |
2013-01-25, 17:18 | Link #51 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Austria
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You might be interested in this thread. (Aside to Mods: I tried looking for it by searching for "moe" in the title, but I didn't get a single hit. Had to search by user; if I hadn't known about that thread beforehand, I probably wouldn't have found it. I think it's that the board software has trouble with three-letter-word searches; another board with the same software [though not necessarily version] didn't allow 3-letter searches at all.)
For me, moe is more about attitude and behaviour. There has to be some sort of spark, at least, if not a bushfire. I'm a cynic, and I like seeing people hold on to a more optimistic attitude. But it can't just be mindless or oblivious. There has to be a sense of awarenes, a sense of decision. So it's definitely not babies for me. It's more about a sense of loss, and trying to hold on to what's there, or regaining it. This can go in very different reactions: Tooru (A-channel), Yomura Kirika (Noir), Kuronoma Sawako (Kimi ni Todoke), Isurugi Noe (True Tears), Sawatari Fuu (Tamayura); all very different characters, but they give me - at heart - a comparable feeling. It's got nothing to do with sex, nor has it anything to with wanting to protect. It's more like wanting to root for something I can't really believe in. It's like re-discovering my inner flame, even if only in fiction. |
2013-01-25, 17:27 | Link #53 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2009
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Which is why I opened this thread. I wanna hear how moe affects others, we dont all feel moe the same. |
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2013-01-25, 17:42 | Link #54 |
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 41
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I merged the new thread with this existing one, which seems to basically be about the same topic.
(I used Google with "site:forums.animesuki.com" in the query and that seems to do a great job. Maybe we should just get Google to power our searches? )
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2013-01-25, 18:29 | Link #55 |
AS Oji-kun
Join Date: Nov 2006
Age: 74
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I'd point to the difference in the character of two current female leads, Chihaya in Chihayafuru and Kotoura in Kotoura-san, as representative of a non-moe and a moe character. Chihaya is strong-willed, even obsessive when it comes to the card game she plays called karuta. Despite her youth and physical beauty, she does not elicit from the viewer a desire to protect her. That isn't too surprising since she is the heroine of a josei manga, and now anime series, written by a woman primarily intended for an audience of older teen and young adult women.
Kotoura, in contrast, is drawn in the cute style with a wide face much like Hiro in Hidamari Sketch or Madoka in Madoka Magica. For reasons the story makes clear from the outset, she has been an outcast for much of her life. Those experiences helped her develop a strong personality, but she also elicits strong feelings of protectiveness in both the other characters and in the audience as well. This show is derived from a 4-koma comic strip that looks to be part of a shounen manga and thus intended for a male audience. It is certainly possible to have both male and female moe characters, and a mix of moe and non-moe characters within the same show. Chihayafuru has two supporting characters, one of each gender, who might be seen as moe. Kotoura-san has female characters who definitely do not elicit a moe feeling. In Tokyo Magnitude 8.0, I'd classify the girl Mirai as not-moe, but her younger brother Yuuki definitely is. Sometimes the style of drawing can matter even within a single show. The third episode of Noein, a show with a wide variety of episode directors, portrayed all the characters, males and females, in a softer and prettier style than most of the other episodes did. It became somewhat notorious as the "moe episode" of that series.
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Last edited by SeijiSensei; 2013-01-25 at 18:43. |
2013-01-25, 18:34 | Link #58 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2009
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I only feel moe for certain animals, like Fluttershy in the beginning of MLP. |
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