General Discussion on The New World and Four Emperors [manga]

[Rainbowman]

Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma

Regarding WB's division commanders, it turns out that Jozu really did lose his arm. In the weekly shonen jump release, during the funeral for WB and Ace we see Jozu's arm bandaged up and still intact. But in the volume 60 release of this scene, Oda had his arm intentionally removed. Here are the comparison pics:

Spoiler for Jozu's lost arm:

Weekly Shonen Jump


Volume 60

That really sucks for Jozu. The loss of an arm is sure to handicap his brute strength.

Can we be certain of that? Looks more like an illustration error. Reason I'm saying this is because I would like to think that Jozu's devil fruit is a logia rather than paramecia. I hope this can be proven wrong when Whitebeard and Ace's funerals are animated.

[secretzfan]

Originally Posted by Rainbowman

Can we be certain of that? Looks more like an illustration error. Reason I'm saying this is because I would like to think that Jozu's devil fruit is a logia rather than paramecia. I hope this can be proven wrong when Whitebeard and Ace's funerals are animated.

Well whatever happens happened ya know

[Blackbeard D. Kuma]

Originally Posted by Rainbowman

Can we be certain of that? Looks more like an illustration error. Reason I'm saying this is because I would like to think that Jozu's devil fruit is a logia rather than paramecia. I hope this can be proven wrong when Whitebeard and Ace's funerals are animated.

The fact that Jozu permanently lost his arm is solid evidence that he's a paramecia. Logias are able to restore their bodies to their original form through elemental regeneration. There's no longer any room for debate on this subject.

And the anime never takes precedence over the manga.

[Kallen4life]

neither in the anime, nor manga was it ever suggested that he is a Logia (in fact, if he were, he would've shrugged off Aokijis freezing easily)

though I'm not sure if his entire body turns into diamond (you can still be NOT a logia with that) or it's just a cover-layer (like Mr. 3 wax and, presumably, Magellan)


also, if a logias defences were disabled and someone cut off their arm when they were vulnerable - they'd stay armless


the only one who can potentially regenerate an actual lost arm would be Marco, but Oda has said that his regen isn't limitless - so we can only guess .. I'd wager he can, but it takes a huge amount of stamina out of him



I also hope that Jozu's arm is alright - wanna see more of that strength

[Blackbeard D. Kuma]

Originally Posted by Kallen4life

also, if a logias defences were disabled and someone cut off their arm when they were vulnerable - they'd stay armless

This is only possible with BB's darkness fruit since it shuts off DF powers.

Haki only enables the person to bypass logia intangibility. When a logia user is hit by a haki-imbued attack, they still retain all of their DF abilities.

[Kallen4life]

This is only possible with BB's darkness fruit since it shuts off DF powers.

and seastone

Haki only enables the person to bypass logia intangibility. When a logia user is hit by a haki-imbued attack, they still retain all of their DF abilities.

well, Rayleigh cut Kizaru's cheek. I don't think it just healed like that, because as far as I know logias DON'T heal, they avoid damage, but if someone does manage to deal it - they have to take it .. Aokiji and Akainu both had blood out of their mouths after powerful haki-attacks from Jozu (he tackled Aokiji while the admiral was fighting WB) and WB, respectively

although your theory can explain why Akainu didn't die from Vista's very fatal-looking Haki-slash - you can't slice a logia apart (after all, it's made from a lifeless reforming element), only deal general 'blunt' damage to the 'spirit' of the logia-user .. either that or Akainu's own armor-haki was simply strong enough to negate Vista's


that's why I'm very eagerly awaiting more fights vs logias .. Cariboo, please, son't dissapoint

[Blackbeard D. Kuma]

Originally Posted by Kallen4life

and seastone

Thanks for the correction .

Originally Posted by Kallen4life

well, Rayleigh cut Kizaru's cheek. I don't think it just healed like that, because as far as I know logias DON'T heal, they avoid damage, but if someone does manage to deal it - they have to take it .. Aokiji and Akainu both had blood out of their mouths after powerful haki-attacks from Jozu (he tackled Aokiji while the admiral was fighting WB) and WB, respectively

although your theory can explain why Akainu didn't die from Vista's very fatal-looking Haki-slash - you can't slice a logia apart (after all, it's made from a lifeless reforming element), only deal general 'blunt' damage to the 'spirit' of the logia-user .. either that or Akainu's own armor-haki was simply strong enough to negate Vista's

You're right; logias don't heal. They're just able to reconstitute themselves through elemental regeneration.

There seems to be an inconsistency between Rayleigh cutting Kizaru's cheek and Vista slashing Akainu's neck area. I guess we'll need some more elaboration on Haki in general.

[secretzfan]

I bet when this is animated the opening will be super bad ass

[marvelB]

Originally Posted by paradox13

Personally, I find it strange how none of the WB division commanders and none of the Admirals and seemingly none of the NW captains and Vice Admirals were killed or permenantly injured in the war.

Technically, we HAVE seen some VAs get taken out (like John Giant, for instance), and Akainu was temporarily taken out of action by Whitebeard. But I think the obvious answer as to why these guys weren't permanently taken out of action is because Oda wants to show them again later in the series (again, I bring up Oda foreshadowing that there's more to Marco's DF than the regeneration....).



Actually, this reminds me: Although he's not a marine, I found it interesting that a monster like Magellan was nearly killed offscreen, despite how nigh-unstoppable he seemed during the ID arc. I wonder if Oda intends to bring HIM back to the series at some point, and as a marine to boot......

[paradox13]

VAs get taken out (like John Giant, for instance), and Akainu was temporarily taken out

Taken out, but no permenant injuries or consequences.

I'm sure some VAs and NW captains were killed, along with fodder, but none of the more significant characters suffered any substantial damage, aside from Joz (and Oz Jnr, I guess).

these guys weren't permanently taken out of action

I know the reason for it, but it just takes away the significance of the event away a little bit, I think.

[Blackbeard D. Kuma]

Originally Posted by marvelB

Actually, this reminds me: Although he's not a marine, I found it interesting that a monster like Magellan was nearly killed offscreen, despite how nigh-unstoppable he seemed during the ID arc. I wonder if Oda intends to bring HIM back to the series at some point, and as a marine to boot......

Indeed. If Sentoumaru became a marine, then it would definitely be plausible to have Magellan as a new recruit as well.

[Shiryuu]

I'm confused about the new world. According to OP wiki, Red Line encircles the world. Same goes for Grand Line. If one side of GL is more dangerous (new world) than the other. Raftel is at the other end of where the seas meet (split old seas and new world). Couldn't anyone just walk using the RL right into Raftel?

[hero147]

Originally Posted by Shiryuu

I'm confused about the new world. According to OP wiki, Red Line encircles the world. Same goes for Grand Line. If one side of GL is more dangerous (new world) than the other. Raftel is at the other end of where the seas meet (split old seas and new world). Couldn't anyone just walk using the RL right into Raftel?

There must be something special about Raftel. Roger offered to tell Whitebeard the way to Raftel, indicating that it probably isn't any normal island.

[secretzfan]

Raftel I don't think it is a island you could just see by looking at it either, but I bet it is somewhere in the new world

[SOGESNAKE]

Originally Posted by secretzfan

Raftel I don't think it is a island you could just see by looking at it either, but I bet it is somewhere in the new world

Hmmmm.... sorta like the Lost Island in the Warship Island Arc in the anime/novel~?

[Kallen4life]

it's probably surrounded by fierce lightning/fire-storms and black holes 24/7

also, even if it's at the end of the NW's GL - it can still be far away from the Red Line

[secretzfan]

Originally Posted by SOGESNAKE

Hmmmm.... sorta like the Lost Island in the Warship Island Arc in the anime/novel~?

Yea like that or Sky Island

[grey_1960]

Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma

There seems to be an inconsistency between Rayleigh cutting Kizaru's cheek and Vista slashing Akainu's neck area. I guess we'll need some more elaboration on Haki in general.

It's like comparing Major league and Minor League
I don't see the inconsistency with this at all. Rayleigh is totally on a higher level then Vista when it comes to haki and power. Rayleigh was the first mate of the pirate king and strong possibly that Rayleigh was stronger then Rogers in the end. I don't see how you could compare those two when they are totally on a different level. Even the marines wouldn't dare go against Rayleigh without proper preparations. I wouldn't be surprised if Akainu's and Kizaru's haki is stronger then vistas. I am sorry to say but Rayleigh is a legend like White Beard and Shanks. He can not be compared to vista.

[paradox13]

Vista was the fourth strongest member of the strongest crew in the world, a crew which is equal to Gol D Rogers..

I wouldn't say he was a different level from Rayleigh.

[grey_1960]

Response to paradox13
Rayleigh was the 1s mate of the pirate king who beat White beard. Rayleigh use of haki far exceeds Vistas. The proof is in the manga. Rayleigh stoods his ground against Admiral Kizaru one on one. Rayleigh was able to make Kizaru bleed. He redirected Kizaru's lasers like Kizaru wasn't logia at all. Vista had to stand with the rest of the White beard pirates in order to slow Admiral Akainu down. Both Marco and Vista tried to hurt Akainu with haki attacks and still couldn't get past his logia defense. There is a difference and it is huge.