2011-01-30, 17:21 | Link #15921 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Canada, Sault Ste. Marie
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If the Wolkenritter can get arrested for being the servants of an artifact that continually regenerates and forces them to fight, I don't see why the Hucks should be able to 'mind their own business' killing people under similar circumstances.
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2011-01-30, 17:22 | Link #15922 | |
The Flame Crussader
Join Date: Aug 2009
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To be fair, only SOME of the Huckebein have showed unpleasant levels of dickery by this point(i think one of the reasons Arnage is the most symphatetic now is because she seems to be a bit more sensible about their condition, her annoy ovr S6's efforts to take Tohma and how she insist abouttaking him with her apparently conceal her corncern for the boy). But time is flowing so i hope these guys get their flashbacks ready.
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2011-01-30, 17:26 | Link #15923 |
Grumpy Russian bear
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Only good and evil is totally moral category. They do have they morals... and we totally can label that set of morals as evil from our standpoint. If people don't have right to judge others morals then we don't need courts - as law is also nothing more than codified set of morals that society deems necessary and set of punishments for act that breach them and as result considered evil. You can advocate lawless and moral-less society where everybody do what they want... but I don't think you'll find many followers.
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2011-01-30, 17:30 | Link #15924 |
Burst Mode
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I'm not advocating lawlessness, as laws do serve a purpose of maintaining order, but they're still inherently self serving and something humans decide. The Hucks aren't lawless, they just have a different set of laws from the Bureau.
"By our morals, what you're doing is wrong!" "Well, by our morals, what we're doing is okay!" So, who's right?
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2011-01-30, 17:36 | Link #15928 | |
Grumpy Russian bear
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What they did WAS evil. Just not 'ritters themselves, they understood that what they do is wrong but couldn't go against circumstances, so they just were weak willed... and stupid - they should have started and ended with those giant animals.
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2011-01-30, 17:37 | Link #15929 |
Banned
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Because it leads to conflict, like the debate we have here. Both sides blame the other. As I pointed out, in other cultures, rape is not illegal for a man. Sure, we may judge it evil, but if you approach a culture and go, "you're bad and evil! Repent and follow our ways!" they aren't going to respond favorably.
To a degree, I feel RF6's approach here is evil. They didn't come out and say, "Look, you guys are killing people. We understand you're infected with something, and we'd like to help. If you can at least stand down, perhaps we can talk and come to some sort of understanding." That's Nanoha's tried-and-true approach with both Fate and the Wolkenritter. I'm a bit disappointed it wasn't used here. |
2011-01-30, 17:38 | Link #15930 | |
Left for TFF
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Well, that and Signum's whole "LOLtanking" of Fate's attacks instead of dodging. EVERY SINGLE PART OF ME WAS SCREAMING "DODGE!" Look where that got her in Force.
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2011-01-30, 17:40 | Link #15931 | |
Grumpy Russian bear
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PS. Also they couldn't offer that to them anyway as Huck's pretty much worked on they death sentence already.
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2011-01-30, 17:42 | Link #15932 | |
The Flame Crussader
Join Date: Aug 2009
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But you know what? Yes. Signum was EVIL back there and she's fully councsicious about it, she ackowledge right on the spot that what they're doing is NOT GOOD in any fashion, they're throwing their honor as knights and are betraying a pact they do with their master. Thus yes, they're evil and Signum feels so bad about it that when things are done she's totally willing to surrender to justice. Sadly neither of the Huckebein have showed that level of determination and councsiousness so far. I probably start thinking better of them the moment they show to take or at least feel some responsibility for the lives they're taking. they don't trust the TSAB? they can't label them as "justice"? Fine. They don't necessary need to surrender to them to try to make amends, the can for example trying to retribute people affected by their crimes, they can try to make a big good like resolving a big problem or defeat a bigger evil to try to amend for what they're done. Probably they know of a place or authority they consider more worthy of their redemption than the TSAB anc can go there to pay for their crimes once they get cured. But nope, so far the story only show us that they kill and don't give a crap about anyone besides themselves. But Kaijo is also right in that there's still some more time on this ride so probably things will get clearer. At the fun side of things, i think the Huckebein have invincibility because of the "backstory weakness" clause. Once they're starting to reveal their past they will be allowed to be defeated(kind of reminds me of the Asgard Saga of Saint Seiya, the Asgardian Wrrior gods were unbeatable and mope the floor each one on theor respective battles ...until the point they take a pause to tell their backstory then they get "surprisingly" defeated xDU).
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2011-01-30, 17:44 | Link #15933 | |
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And criminals such as those live within the society. I won't argue that a legitimately established governing body doesn't have the right to uphold its laws on the members of its own society. The Huckebein, however, exists outside of the Bureau's society. "You ostrasize us and hunt us down like dogs. Why the hell should we play by your rules?"
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2011-01-30, 17:48 | Link #15934 | |
I Miss NEET Life
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Formerly Iwakawa base and Chaldea. Now Teyvat, the Astral Express & the Outpost
Age: 44
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And the solving of the Huckie problem boiling down to Nanoha's sitcom father talk would fucking disappoint me, I am expecting the franchise and the writer behind it to be a little more ambitious and inventive than that. If Tsuzuki end the Huckie crisis with that shit plus pink beam of friendship, fuck that shit, and I can give Reckoner the green cookie, 'Yo, you are right!" |
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2011-01-30, 17:49 | Link #15935 | |
Left for TFF
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Just to get off of Force for a moment.
Whoever made this post on /m/ is probably my favorite Nanoha fan of all time right now. Quote:
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2011-01-30, 17:49 | Link #15936 | |
Banned
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You rehabilitate people and you solve the problem of them re-offending. Find a place for them in society. Sure, the Hucks may have to spend some time in captivity (Lutecia and the Numbers did). But you always give your enemy the option. Back them into a corner, and they'll just fight harder. Anyway, my viewpoint is that killing isn't that much different than torturing. In fact, killing may be more human. Torture can leave someone mentally scarred. I'm a bit surprised that they glossed over any mental repercussions Nanoha might have had, but then again, she had grown into a little soldier by then. Had they left the Wolkenritter alone, they would have gone off to drain more Bureau people, or perhaps civilians with linker cores. That kind of assault can leave nightmares for someone. And as was pointed out, the Wolkenritter attacked the Bureau, whereas the Hucks try to avoid them. If anything, that gives the Bureau more ground to do something. Actually, Hayate did specifically order Signum not to, and in fact, made her promise not to collect linker cores. Signum went against that. While the official record might have glossed over some things, the real story is that each member of the Wolkenritter made a choice to assault and torture people. |
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2011-01-30, 17:49 | Link #15937 |
Grumpy Russian bear
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They kill people inside Bureau's society, they abduct people there too... why the hell NOT should Bureau judge them? Also I'm not talking about Bureau, I'm talking about us, readers - we can (and should) judge them by our moral code to see if they deeds are evil and if they are evil themselves. Now that is natural thing that most people do when they watch/hear/read some piece of history or fiction.
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2011-01-30, 17:49 | Link #15938 | ||
Labda Prakarsa Nirwikara
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Pekanbaru (UTC+07:00)
Age: 37
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You say that "OMG they killed nuns, I hate them" is jumping to conclusions. Others say that "OMG they kill people, they must have a tragic backstory" is jumping to conclusions. And right now both sides have taken their stance, and no amount of argument between them can sway each other. The only thing that can change them is what the story presents to us. Quote:
My opinions on knights and chivaly are rarely flattering.
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2011-01-30, 17:54 | Link #15939 | ||
Banned
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2011-01-30, 17:58 | Link #15940 | ||
Grumpy Russian bear
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Attacking ANYBODY on Bureau territory = attacking Bureau. So Hucks do NOT avoid Bureau, they just avoid ones that can actually shoot back.
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adventure, manga, nanoha, seinen |
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