[Manga] Jiraiya & Oro

[Faktor-IV]

Originally Posted by ShurikenJay

I do however think Orochimaru means quality over quantity. The more varied and powerful a Ninjas jutsu arsenal the more powerful the ninja.

Its not like Ninja A 1001 jutsu > Ninja B 1000

Its all about who's jutsu are better and how well they can execute them. Orochimaru admires innovation as he said he wants to be like the person who first put blue and yellow together to make green. Having an unrivaled knowledge of superior ninja techniques and a great understanding of the way the world works is the closet thing to Godhood for Orochimaru, thats what he truly desires. I don't think he fears Itachi because he knows 10 or 20 more jutsu than him but because he has advanced the Uchiha bloodline so much that he's intimidated by his power and wants it for himself. The powers of sharingan are ofcourse very attractive to him as they can copy any jutsu he wants learned on the flash increasing his power and overall jutsu knowledge. Something Itachi has probably taken full advantage of, Orochimaru recognizes those key strengths as being a superior ninja. Plus he probably learned the hard way that Itachi can kick his ass.

Oh and one more thing. What do you all think of the fatc that Oro wants to learn EVERY jutsu? That seemed like a big clue to me that Orochimaru desires more than just Sasuke's body if he wants to learn it all. How for instance could he ever learn valuable skills like the Gentle Fist?

Spoiler:

its too late for skills like Kimimaro's bloodline limit and clan jutsu but he has to take what he can get

If the emphasis on immortality to obtain jutsu is so important to Orochimaru does it not make sense that he'd want to acquire every bloodline limit to ensure he gets every powerful jutsu? He has experimented with human guinea pigs so much that it seems like a trifle to me that Oro can take multiple bodies into his own and manipulate them to obtain every bloodline he comes acroos yet I here so often that people think he'd have to discard Sasuke's body and reproduce to keep the sharingan or he isn't very strong in his current body and all types if varied opinion on this subject. What do you think?

Sharingan is overrated in terms of copying. Well, not overrated but it is compared to our perspective and our perception of the sharingan. What does copying mean? using it during the battle like kakashi did or see it then train to obtain it? if its the latter, what is the difference between shinobi w/out sharingan obtaining it with training and a shinobi with a sharingan who obtained it with training? time? like he already have his left foot in the door cuz he memorized the hand seals?

From what i got, sharingan can copy visual movements (excluding the speed) but it cant copy molding or manipulating the chakra the way it needs to perform the jutsu . And things that he is physically unfit to mimic without training . For example like how he obtained Lee's speed. He copied his hand and body movements but the speed he couldnt obtain without training. Another Example: He has seen rasengan more than once, yet its still not in his aresenal. Ill be blunt and say kakashi doesnt even know how to obtain the rasengan even with his fully developed sharingan. Rasengan requires training to learn how to mold the chakra a certain way. I think even the chidori needs training. I think our perception of the sharingan was amplified cuz kakashi copied zabuza's elemental jutsus. I think elemental jutsus are basics , low lvl jutsus. Sharingan cant copy original justus that are high lvl..

Average shinobi is attracted to sharingan cuz it can copy elemental jutsus and other basic jutsus like kagebunshin , mizubunshin etc... Elite ninja is attracted to it cuz it gives you great insight, like reading your opponents movements and breaking down jutsus to have better knowledge. Elite ninja like Orochimaru is attracted to the sharingan cuz the power of Mangekyo sharingan. Uchias are like Saiyans and Mangekyo sharingan are like SuperSaiyan.(Both race were extinct except for few supersayians) Obviously, Orochimaru respects the Mangekyo, and its anyone's guess if he confronted the power of Mangekyo first hand. But orochimaru's actions are definetly influenced by mangekyo , otherwise he wouldve just killed sasuke and taken his eyes instead of waiting three more yrs to obtain his body .

[Faktor-IV]

aslo , Sharingan can see thru genjutsu but it cant against very high lvl genjutsu.

[Satoru]

Originally Posted by Faktor-IV

Sharingan is overrated in terms of copying. Well, not overrated but it is compared to our perspective and our perception of the sharingan. What does copying mean? using it during the battle like kakashi did or see it then train to obtain it? if its the latter, what is the difference between shinobi w/out sharingan obtaining it with training and a shinobi with a sharingan who obtained it with training? time? like he already have his left foot in the door cuz he memorized the hand seals?

From what i got, sharingan can copy visual movements (excluding the speed) but it cant copy molding or manipulating the chakra the way it needs to perform the jutsu . And things that he is physically unfit to mimic without training . For example like how he obtained Lee's speed. He copied his hand and body movements but the speed he couldnt obtain without training. Another Example: He has seen rasengan more than once, yet its still not in his aresenal. Ill be blunt and say kakashi doesnt even know how to obtain the rasengan even with his fully developed sharingan. Rasengan needs training to learn how to mold the chakra a certain way. I even think chidori you cant copy without training. I think our perception of the sharingan was amplified cuz kakashi copied zabuza's elemental jutsus. I think elemental jutsus are basics , low lvl jutsus. Sharingan cant copy original justus that are high lvl..

Average shinobi is attracted to sharingan cuz it can copy elemental jutsus and other basic jutsus like kagebunshin , mizubunshin etc... Elite ninja is attracted to it cuz it gives you great insight, like reading your opponents movements and breaking down jutsus to have better knowledge. Elite ninja like Orochimaru is attracted to the sharingan cuz the power of Mangekyo sharingan. Uchias are like Saiyans and Mangekyo sharingan are like SuperSaiyan.(Both race were extinct except for few supersayians) Obviously Orochimaru respects the Mangekyo, and its anyone's guess if he confronted the power of Mangekyo first hand. But orochimaru's actions are definetly influenced by mangekyo , otherwise he wouldve just killed sasuke and take his eyes instead of waiting three more yrs to obtain his body .

It's all bullshit! Sharingan can copy all hand-seal jutsus. (Except for summoning-jutsu and special clan things) btw kage-bunshin isn't a low-level jutsu...not at all. Plus Oro wants the sharingan because it's a copy-machine...isn't that obvious? The mange is something special for Itachi and Sasuke...Oro is just a jutsu freak.

[BigNarutoFan]

Mangekyu Sharingan can only be obtained by a bloodline limit heir afaik. Anyway dont forget that Sharingan also has the ability of insight to whats going on in a battle.

[Yellow Flash]

Originally Posted by BigNarutoFan

Mangekyu Sharingan can only be obtained by a bloodline limit heir afaik.

False. Kakashi is not an Uchiha. But he was Yondaime's best student, so it didn't surprise me when he obtained the MS.

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[Rurik]

Originally Posted by Yellow Flash

False. Kakashi is not an Uchiha. But he was Yondaime's best student, so it didn't surprise me when he obtained the MS.

-

Really, what are you trying to do? This post was made way before Kakashi appeared with the MS, even before WE knew he could developed the 3rd Dot, by that time Kishi tried really hard to make it look as if MS was something exclusive to the bloodline.

In fact I was not surprise when He performed the MS either, because in the Kakashi Gaiden and in chapters before the Kakashi MS hints where already thrown suggesting Kakashi capabilities of obtaining this Overkill Doujutsu.

[MysticNinjaJay]

Originally Posted by Faktor-IV

Another Example: He has seen rasengan more than once, yet its still not in his aresenal. Ill be blunt and say kakashi doesnt even know how to obtain the rasengan even with his fully developed sharingan.

That's speculation.

What evidence do you have that rasengan is not one of the hundreds of jutsus in Kakashi's aresenal?

Because you've never seen him use it?

That's not evidence at all. I'm also not convinced he needed to train to achieve Lee's speed, he seemed to be training because he wasn't in the best of shape and knew stroing enemies like Kabuto and Orochimaru were on the horizon. Infact I'm pretty sure he stated as much.

How could Kakashi have needed to train to acquire Lee's speed when he taught it to Sasuke.

I think you are highly underestimating Shairngan's abilities.

The only jutsus we know for sure that it cannot copy are contract jutsu (like Oro's snakes) and bloodline jutsu, both of which require something extra to perform (genetically inherited traits and contracts).

Kabuto said during the Sound & Sand invasion that he wasn't going to fight Kakashi at the moment because he'd just copy all of his moves, and we know that medical jutsu which is his speciality is very difficult to perform so that's saying alot.

Basically Sharingan just needs a bit of extra training for moves it cannot handle especially when it comes to taijutsu the user needs to keep up with the speed.

[astayanax]

aslo , Sharingan can see thru genjutsu but it cant against very high lvl genjutsu.

False. Itachi used the sharingan to genjutsu-counter an extremely high lvl genjutsu from Kurenai; who is arguably Konoha's best genjutsu master. I could be wrong, but I doubt we have seen any sharingan user fall to any genjutsu attack saved the Ms one by Itachi.