2013-08-21, 23:39 | Link #7161 | |
Secret Society BLANKET
Graphic Designer
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: 3 times the passion of normal flamenco
|
Quote:
__________________
|
|
2013-08-22, 05:38 | Link #7162 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
|
Quote:
Besides, hadn't the show gone about as far down the "Stupid teams winning by sheer dint of superior equipment" shtick as it can be taken? Do we really need to see an adult version of Nishizumi-ryu armed with M1A2 SEPs (or whatever) bullying teams that can barely buy Type 61s? |
|
2013-08-22, 09:24 | Link #7164 |
Senior and Demented
Join Date: May 2006
|
Hmm... half way to GuP for realz!
http://en.rocketnews24.com/2012/10/1...r-wows-crowds/ Ok ... not rilly, but we can dream right?
__________________
|
2013-08-22, 11:01 | Link #7166 | |
Operation sneaky sneaks
IT Support
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Hic et ubique
|
Compassion is what separates us from them
Quote:
Allowing for modern tanks would promote the notions that "might is right" and that victory can be bought, contradicting the basis of Panzerfahren. Besides, true strength is being able to best an opponent by out-thinking and out-maneuvering them, not by bringing more gun and trying to pummel them to dust. In other words, allowing anything past WWII-era armour would bring back the very thing that the current female-only Panzerfahren environment sought to minimise: the main battle tanks of our age are designed with the aim of defeating an enemy, not promote sportsmanship. I've asked previously and obtained no responses, so it is safe to assume that no official news has been released yet. Judging from the Fall 2013 anime line-up, it probably won't show up soon, and may see a release in the Winter 2014 season instead to promote interest in the upcoming movie. These are merely my speculations, though
__________________
|
|
2013-08-22, 11:25 | Link #7168 | ||
Banned
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Holy Terra
|
Quote:
Miho and her school won by using friendship and strategy, yes. But they also had a lot of luck. Especially in the last battle... Quote:
Especially if both teams have modern tanks, then it's all about experience and skills as all modern tanks are basically the same. Besides it would be stupid if international level tournament has exact same tanks as japanese schools ( WW2 era ). Even their instructor is not using WW2 but modern warfare main battle tank. And just imagine Miho and her team in Leopold or Abrams. I would love to see that. |
||
2013-08-22, 11:58 | Link #7169 | |
Operation sneaky sneaks
IT Support
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Hic et ubique
|
Quote:
The reason Ooarai succeeded is because Miho is able to push Black Forest out of their comfort zone, and in the process, shakes up their confidence. Maho might be a capable strategist and anticipate these things, but the majority of Black Forest haven't been seen to illustrate that same kind of discipline. As we've both noted, Ooarai, on the other hand, stand united. That strength matters: while not mentioned in my aforementioned discussion, Miho is able to consistently do one thing better than Maho. This would be raising morale and a sense of unity in those under her command, raising their respect such that they would more or less move heaven and earth for her. This is the mark of a great commander, as is consistent with Sun Tzu's writings. As for the claim that all MBTs are equivalent? Firepower alone does not account for victory: the current-generation MBTs and the previous generation ones mentioned differ not greatly in firepower, but special equipment, such as ballistic computers and turret stablisation, for instance. The equipment mentioned here allows tanks to calculate the trajectory of their rounds far more efficiently and give their main cannon more accuracy at longer ranges, whereas the latter confers improved accuracy while the tank itself is moving, respectively. Of course, modern tanks also have kinetic penetrators that will shred the armour of the earlier MBTs, while themselves possessing composite and/or reactive armours that aim to minimise the damage of previous-generation ammunition. Taken together, yes, there is a substantial difference that is sufficient to shift the balance in favour of those with superior resources. The possibility of imbalance would arise, since the perks found in present-day MBTs like the M1A2 Abrams, T90, Challenger II or Leopard II would give them a near-total edge over older MBTs like the M60 Patton and Soviet T-64, while presumably making the tanks far more costly to acquire. Thus, my points still stands, as some schools will still be at the disadvantage, and said disadvantages will be amplified owing to the substantial improvements in the technology fielded by newer tanks.
__________________
Last edited by Infinite Zenith; 2013-08-22 at 12:12. Reason: Grammar and syntax count! |
|
2013-08-22, 12:38 | Link #7170 | |||
Banned
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Holy Terra
|
Quote:
But the main reason why they go head on with everyone is because their tanks can hit a tank from 3km and destroy it. They could just sit back and let other tanks come at them. Their style actually fit them, advance slowly in groups and blow up everything in your path, they have power and armor and of course they will play like that. Quote:
-Chi-Ha in the beginning malfunctioned and have gone backwards instead of forward and as a result they were not defeated 10 seconds since the game started. -16 ton Hetzer cannot lift 188 ton Maus, and that turret is at least three times heavier than Type 89 so they should fall from the tank the moment she moved that turret. -In the end they won by going 1 on 1 and staking everything on a single long shot that would leave them vulnerable if they missed or the shell bounced as in next second the rest of Black Forest tanks arrived. By all accounts they should lost that battle, it's all thanks to Miho strategy + teamwork + plot armor that they won. But ok, without plot armor everything would be stupid and boring Quote:
-Even fairly equipped T-72 or even T-55 can take down a M1 Abrams, just like Miho took down Sherman with anti-infantry cannon. Of course, MBT now are better than those from 20 years ago but hey - if they can take type 89 and go toe to toe with King Tiger than they can take T-72 and go toe to toe with Leopold II. -I am pretty sure that International Panzerfahren rules forbid the use of things like "special equipment, such as ballistic computers and turret stabilization". They probably only include human factor and weapon and armor upgrades, but no computers or visors whatsoever ( remember that they read rules for radio equipment to see if that was valid for use, imagine if someone put targeting computer in his tank... I am sure he would be banned). And I am sure that unlike WW2 national they have actual rules for tanks that can be used in event ( same reason why WW1 tanks like Mark I were not used in anime even if we saw people using them on recruitment video ). |
|||
2013-08-22, 12:55 | Link #7171 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
|
The original arrangement for senshado, with a limit set at WWII tanks, made the most sense: Advanced targeting assistance didn't exist yet, most of the operation was still very hands-on, and that was still all that the tanks had to offer.
The problem with later tanks is that most of the systems function at their best with electronic and mechanical integration. Why cripple the tank to fight with it? It would be like having an auto race where all of the cars have half of their engines filled with sand. |
2013-08-22, 14:07 | Link #7172 |
Banned
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Holy Terra
|
True, most modern tanks are too much dependable on electronics. I nfact, most of them have it as their standar equipment.
Then why not use as minimum as you need for your tank to work? I doubt that modern tank need auto targeting, infrared, night vision etc... that's to help human gunner in targeting not for the tank to function. It can still be done, even with modern tanks. Without too much sacrifice in human element area. |
2013-08-22, 14:14 | Link #7173 | |
Catholic = Cat addiction?
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: MURICA!!
|
Quote:
- Tak
__________________
|
|
2013-08-22, 17:32 | Link #7176 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: By that dark and bloody river called Ohio.
Age: 59
|
Quote:
1) It looked to me more as is the Hetzer acted as a ramp which the Maus ran up on, and then didn't have enough ground purchase to back off from. 2) The turret of the Maus is indeed more massive than the Type 89. However, did the motor which rotated the turret have enough power to move the turret and the Type 89? Also, it would have been pushing the Type 89 "uphill". |
|
Tags |
comedy, gup, original anime, slice of life, sports, tanks |
|
|