2009-07-13, 22:45 | Link #201 |
The Great Dine
Join Date: Feb 2009
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Just for clarification on Nanjo: He's the family attending physician (majorly Kinzo's though) and a long time friend of Kinzo's. Everyone is fighting over the inheritance especially now because Nanjo has stated that Kinzo will most likely pass within 3 months. However, what wasn't stated by the anime was how it was mentioned during the adult talk that Nanjo has been telling the family that Kinzo is set to die in 3 months for the past year or two.
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2009-07-13, 22:46 | Link #202 | |
self-proclaimed otaku
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: toronto
Age: 37
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1. So now the killer is assuming that everybody in the house is sleeping when he fired a gun, especially after they just received a shocking letter from Beatrice with Kinzo seal that anybody even outside the family could receive the gold? Apparently despite Rudolf or maybe a few others feeling that their lives are threatened, they would all sleep peacefully that night? A few logic or two is missing here. 2. Did we watch the same anime? If we did then go back to the part where Rudolf was talking to his son and Kyrie. He clearly said "they will be up all night discussing about the matter". So, no, at least those 4 are awake at the killing time. 3. The killer just kill 6 people in one night without anybody else in the house aware of, mutilate their faces, and draw a beautifully designed demon circle? And apparently the killer did not have great preparation long before the murder. Again, a logic or two is missing here. 4. The killer just kill 6 people and performing all those rituals without mercy, and you expect the killer to have been living his/her entire life as law-abiding citizen. The killer apparently have been associating his entire life with peace-loving family and friends. He/she apparently never befriend dangerous people nor having shady connections to buy anything illegal. Profiling is greatly missing here. 5. Easily, huh? How? He's the cook btw. The tea and the likes are served by Kanon or Shanon. To just give him tea to serve the masters without him questioning the reasoning at all is way too unlikely. Except if he's a retard that is. |
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2009-07-13, 23:19 | Link #203 |
Gamilas Falls
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Republic of California
Age: 46
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1. We can't even assume there was a gun used at this point since all we have are six bodies with there faces missing. A gun would make it earier, but the noise increases the chances of being caught. Also with the use of a gun there is generally both and entry and exit wound. In addition most guns that would be legally acquired in Japan for hunting would be powerful enough to put a hole in both the target and whatever is beyond the target...sometime several somethings beyond the target. Therefore one must keep the option that something else was used instead.
2. All six bodies arew found in one location. Either the killer(s) killed them someplace else and moved them to this location, or somehow managed to draw them there and then killed them. That demonic seal could be used as a lure to draw them in, as would the promise of the gold, though that does not follow through in all cases. The four parents were in the same room last we saw them, they would have had to have been dealt with at once, or when they were on there way to bed. 3. The method of the murder was either predetermined or someone put the demonic circle up for some other reason the previous night (it is October after all). The epitath and the letter show that the murders were probably planned well in advance by someone, or someones. However no plan survives contact with the enemy. Something could easily have gone wrong, and probably did. Six is the required dead...who the six are? Well either that was also planned, or someone doesn't really care as long as six people are dead. 4. It is easier to attempt murder with what is on hand rather than risk getting caught early for some other crime. While these people are rich, none of them (to our knowledge) have military training or contacts. None of them are assassins unless one or more of the staff is trained how to kill people. While we can assume they have shady deals and such, as far as we know, there are only 18 people on the island...so the list of suspects is only that long...less because six of them are dead. 5. He could easily be in on the murder and then killed to cover up who he's working for. If you suspect poison that is. He would not be poisoned however. Likely he'd be killed after helping to move the bodies so that they wouldn't have to move his big body out of the house. 6. Question: Of the 12 survivors, who has the motive and ability to pull this off?
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Last edited by Ithekro; 2009-07-14 at 00:06. |
2009-07-14, 00:02 | Link #204 | |||
Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
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Of course, if you really insist that Shannon would bring the tea, then you could simply exchange Shannon for Gohda and the logic works the same. She brings the tea (which unknown to her is poisoned), she sees people collapse and panics, killer shoots her to eliminate the loose end, and then kills Gohda later. Both servants who were in the mansion died; the exact circumstances of which died where isn't critical to the theory. One dies because they witness the deaths of the four people in the dining hall, the other dies either because they saw something the killer didn't want them to see, or simply as random bad luck because the killer wanted six victims to match the epitaph. |
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2009-07-14, 00:11 | Link #205 | |
self-proclaimed otaku
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: toronto
Age: 37
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2. Someone already discuss the technique to this. 3. Yes, the killing is already planned out long before the murder. Nobody from the crowd seems to have seen the pattern before. The gate opening is also huge. Such a huge demon circle should draw attention to the shed. Unless the murderer made sure nobody ever approached the shed for days, someone would notice. That means the murderer must make sure to have drawn the circle right during the killing time. Even though only Kanon who noticed that the sign was not there before rain, nobody refutes. 4. Buying illegal weapon is a crime only if: a. cops happen to catch you during transaction (highly unlikely when you're only buying one gun). b. Out of nowhere your house is raided by cops to discover the possession of a single illegal weapon (even more unlikely). c. Using it to kill people such as what happen that night. Remember that the murders are very well planned, so the killer should be smart enough not to get caught possessing a single illegal weapon. 5. So someone would approach Gouda saying "hey lets kill 6 people tonight. We won't do anything to you. We would however share the 10 tonnes of gold evenly". Gouda would then believe it and go along with the plan. Um, I highly doubt it but it's entirely possible. 6. 10 tonnes of gold is still a good motif for me. I still don't see any problem with that aspect so far. Ability, since you're saying there is a cahoot, Nanjo will be a likely suspect since he can lie about each corpse's time of death. |
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2009-07-14, 00:25 | Link #206 | |
self-proclaimed otaku
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: toronto
Age: 37
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What do you mean by the logic works the same? Assuming Shanon or whoever bring the tea got shot, the gunshot would alert Gohda. Not to mention Shanon will scream on top of her f*cking lungs and cry for quite a while when she witness 4 people just died from poisoning. For Gohda or the remaining servant to just go out of the room out of curiosity without preparing, instead of hiding or locking themselves would only happen if they're retarded. And again Gohda is not the servant. He's the cook. He won't do such a thing without questioning it. Genji or Chiyo's the one who will serve the tea if nobody is available. |
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2009-07-14, 00:28 | Link #207 |
Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
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O.k to continue my last post here is how I'm seeing things right now
People I've totally ruled out: Battler George Maria People that could be accomplices but not the mastermind (were betrayed) Ghoda Shannon Krauss People who are too obvious suspects to be the real culprit Eva Natsuhi People who I can´t rule out: Genji Kannon Jessica Kinzo Kumazawa Eva´s Husband Kyrie Nanjo My top suspects right now: Rudolf Rosa |
2009-07-14, 00:42 | Link #209 | |||
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Join Date: Jul 2009
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I agree it's a bit odd to keep your cook up all night in between two of the busiest cooking days of the year, but that's what Krauss did; whatever the reasoning, Gohda was assigned to serve the night shift that night. |
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2009-07-14, 00:55 | Link #210 |
Endless Nine
Artist
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: In a certain tropical island
Age: 38
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Since it's being discussed, here's some info on Gohda that wasn't mentioned in the anime. Gohda is a show off. He won't hesitate serving tea to his guests on such a grand occasion as the family conference.
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2009-07-14, 01:08 | Link #211 | |
self-proclaimed otaku
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: toronto
Age: 37
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Someone screaming is loud enough to alert the entire building. You make that mansion bigger than it is. There is no way a normal human scream is as loud as a silenced gunshot. Not to mention that person will scream for help continuously for a period of time, to alert other people in the mansion. Besides what do you mean by "normal", a person would scream as loud as he/she can upon watching people being murdered. Your claims are becoming harder and harder to believe now. |
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2009-07-14, 01:31 | Link #213 | |||
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Join Date: Jul 2009
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It's also safe to say that the mansion is well-built, which reduces sound conduction quite a lot. Thickness of walls plays a huge role in conduction, and expensive buildings tend to have thicker walls. Quote:
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Last edited by Goilveig; 2009-07-14 at 01:46. |
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2009-07-14, 01:40 | Link #214 |
The Great Dine
Join Date: Feb 2009
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It should also be noted that he doesn't like Kanon or Shannon very much. He's a real prideful guy. Kanon, Shannon and Genji are the three highest ranked servants in the family (Genji being 1st, Shannon being 2nd and Kanon being 3rd) and Gohda doesn't like that, even though he has more experience, Shannon and Kanon are considered better than he is by the family in general because of their status as servants who can wear the crest. He basically thinks he should be allowed to wear it as well, since he was hired personally by the eldest son and his wife. Shannon doesn't seem to mind his flaunting, but Kanon pretty much hates him. Kanon also has a high disliking of Natsuhi and Eva.
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2009-07-14, 02:08 | Link #215 |
Gamilas Falls
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Republic of California
Age: 46
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As for screaming, while the volume might be similar to gunfire, it tends to he held out longer than the sharp report of a firearm.
On the other hand we do suffer from an acute lack on information at this point. As mentioned we only have knowledge of the discovery of the six bodies. There has yet to be any sort of investigation of anyplace else on the island as there has not been time in the anime yet...at least for use the viewers. We know there was a small back and forth before Battler, Jessica, and George arrived, at which point we get to see what is going on. We don't know what it looks like inside the Mansion yet, though there is no currect evidance of bloodshed from what little we see of the place before the murder is discovered. That is aside from Natsuhi's door, which may or may not be blood. A different question. With or without a firearm, the murderer(s) need to be able to mess up (remove) the faces of the six victims. But what with? The damage is considerable with teeth being knocked out and probably heavy damage to the skull.
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2009-07-14, 02:17 | Link #216 | |
self-proclaimed otaku
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: toronto
Age: 37
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Wow, so someone screaming is actually more 'silent' than silenced gunshot. Um, nobody would believe such a bold claim. Besides you forgot the part where the person will be constantly screaming and move around. And as already mentioned, you need a high caliber firearm to instantly kill someone in one shot which obviously make much louder noise. And about killing with tea. Are you suppose to assume that all 4 of them will drink the tea at the same time. One or two might drink some at the same time and then die first, alerting the others. You can't kill all 4 of them by just serving poisonous tea. Last edited by plzd0ntkeelme; 2009-07-14 at 02:28. Reason: forgot another one |
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2009-07-14, 02:24 | Link #217 |
Endless Nine
Artist
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: In a certain tropical island
Age: 38
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Food for thought regarding gun sounds and noises. I think there is such a thing as selective hearing. A silenced gun is still loud, but the sound might be masked by ambient sounds. Of course I'm not claiming that it might have been masked by the rain, or occassional thunder, but if you look at it, a scream would be more noticeable than a muffled gunshot.
I'm not an expert at this, it's just an idea. |
2009-07-14, 03:56 | Link #218 | |||||
Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
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A good silencer is about the same as having one relatively thin wall between you and the gun. So if you're in a cheap motel, and you shot a gun in your room, with a silencer it would sound about as if that same gun were fired in the adjacent room. If the gun were fired in the adjacent room, it would sound about as if it were two rooms away. Quote:
And as mentioned, eliminating anyone who survived would be the other major reason to have the gun ready. |
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2009-07-14, 04:09 | Link #219 |
Gamilas Falls
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Republic of California
Age: 46
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Just to put it out there, what about something slightly more exotic, and quieter than an a gun, like say a crossbow? I would say a bow and arrow, but those actually take a bit of skill and I'm not sure how good they are at punching through skulls at close range. Especially if the victim can see you getting the arrow ready. With a crossbow at least you could have it ready before aiming, or even entering the room.
Just a thought on how to solve a noise problem...if there is such a thing.
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