AnimeSuki Forums

BetoJR · 2009-01-30, 10:31

We are all selfish beings, to a degree.

What Maya's doing nothing more than try to get herself some happiness while she still can.

typhonsentra · 2009-01-30, 10:34

No she's not, she's bringing other involuntarily in. Her trying to grasp happiness would be her outright telling Kitamura how she feels, not forcing Ryuuji and Taiga to pair up because she sees Taiga as an obstacle. The way she's trying to use Ryuuji is just rotten.

BetoJR · 2009-01-30, 10:36

She's a scaredy-cat, I'll give you that.

But I don't think she's all that different from, say, Taiga herself, in the beginning of the series.

asrielchase · 2009-01-30, 10:38

I don't see Maya as incredibly selfish.. She saw what Taiga did for Kitamura, knew she likes him, felt threatened and decides to act more decisively, that's it. Taiga and Kitamura isn't even a couple yet. Ultimately it all depends on who Kitamura likes, anyway.

wistfulloner · 2009-01-30, 10:42

It's nice that someone actually sees things in my light. Kihara doesn't know how much Kitamura means to Taiga, and while the rest are trying to pair the two up, Kihara obstinately wants to deny her happiness for the sake of her own.

She probably won't get it, although it would be interesting to see what happens when you throw an odd vector into the mix.

arkxkra · 2009-01-30, 11:11

Erm, good episode also. The relationship getting confuse and complicated now, since it almost the end, guess some of them start to realise their own feeling by few more episode.

Love the new opening and ending theme, especially the ending theme ^^.

puppygod · 2009-01-30, 11:47

What? So, suddenly Kihara is the bad one? Because... What she actually did? Said that Taiga and Kitamura wouldn't be good couple and encouraged Ryuuji a little?

Honestly, I can't see anything wrong with that statement. I think she's right. Taiga sure have hots for Yuusaku, but what kind of relationship they have? She barely registers on his radar. Also, they barely even can hold a meaningful conversation. It's extremely one-sided and shallow relation, if anything.

And if we can judge from those very few hints we had, Maya had crush for Kitamura for at least as long as Taiga. I can't really see anything wrong with what she is doing. Trying to set Taiga with Ryuuji (who apparently gets along with her very well) is certainly more rational and civilized way than breaking into classmate house, attempted murder or starting armed fights on school grounds

Overall, I enjoyed that episode more than I expected. Good setting for new arc, further character development and it was refreshing to see background characters more involved than usual.

Cosmic Eagle · 2009-01-30, 11:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vexx

Agreed, the most you're likely to get is an OVA as a closeout/cleanup (unless the novel series spins off later or something).

Frankly, I'm fine with a nice complete series that finishes.

Yeah, done well, it ain't too bad, then Rie can go back to hopefully voicing Shana in a season 3....

Caster13 · 2009-01-30, 12:02

I'm really glad that the supporting characters took a bigger role this episode. It adds to the school atmosphere (and drama!).

It certainly looks as if it is Minorin's turn to be emotional. I can't wait for her real feelings to be revealed and for what ever will happen to help her over come. The chains of characters going through their troubles (first Kitamura now Minorin) may be a lot of drama that's bad for our mental state, but it's a fact that the web of relationships within a group of people moves and shakes out in a ripple effect.

Seeing Taiga as she was this episode was a delight. Both child-like and perhaps unconsciously yearning for redemption, I wonder if she enjoys the Christmas season not so much because of the lights and decorations but because Santa's all-seeing eye pushes her to redeem herself for all that she's done in the past year. She knows she can be a pain in the neck and this season puts her in the mood to make up for it.

I do think that Maya's being a little selfish when it comes to Kitamura. I wouldn't blame her for it however. It's only natural for anyone to try and avoid heart ache. But even more importantly, she's right about Takasu and Taiga being better off together--or at least, I'm sure many of us would agree with that. After all, it even provoked a response from Ryuuji.

ThoHell · 2009-01-30, 12:42

Hmm...interesting episode. New OP and ED, pretty good. So, why does Ami appear so little? With that little screen time she has, she plays such a huge important factor in turning the wheel. Not really enjoying this series right now, hopefully it improves next week. Last episode was good, but this one and the preview of the next..... I dunno.

Darknemo2000 · 2009-01-30, 13:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by typhonsentra

You're being too light on Maya, what she's trying to do is incredibly selfish. Worst of all is she's trying to convince others and herself it's for their own good.

All i can say - welcome to reality. Thats how things are and thats how things will be, for better or worse.

We are all egocentric creatures - sometimes altruism happens, but those abnormalities are rare and usually are limited withing close circle of people.

Kihara deserves as much as happiness as Taiga, who though is liking Kitamura is somewhat mixed about Ryuuji. If Kitamura would be Taiga's one and only love then yeah, but for now it looks like her love is 'two-timing' at this moment.

So why Kihara should try not to do what it takes to get the one she loves? Specially when the one whom she has to compete is emotionally unclear if she loves that or this guy, at least Kihara knows whom she likes and is not blushing at others.

There is nothing wrong for her to act teh way she does - she is a normal girl after all and life is not the church. You do what you do to find happiness, if it happens to do as least harm as possible to others - the better it is, if not - well at least it is you who is happy.

You don't have to like it, but thats the way it is and to condemn a person because she/he uses her chance to happiness is just a hypocrisy, because chances are that you too act self-centric as it is part of human nature. Unless you are a freak that is (like a saint etc.).

physics223 · 2009-01-30, 13:18

I didn't think Kihara was anything short of human. She was even quite civil with Taiga, and didn't really do anything dangerously underhanded. When was trying to do whatever was necessary (in the bounds of law) to get who one loves illegal?

Vexx · 2009-01-30, 13:29

We could retell this story from Kihara's point of view and we'd have a bunch of people outraged at Taiga. Kihara's had a long crush on Kitamura as well and was unaware of any activity on the Taiga-Kitamura channel til recently (or thought the idea absurd). This is a bit like watching a harem series but from a completely unique camera/point-of-view perspective well away from the "guy". Very interesting.

Taiga doesn't "own" Kitamura - actually, no one owns anyone in any manner so far in the series outside of being comrades/friends. Taiga really *needed* Ryuuji, but now (at least in appearance) she's become more independent so that claim has become pretty murky.

Darknemo2000 · 2009-01-30, 13:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by physics223

I didn't think Kihara was anything short of human. She was even quite civil with Taiga, and didn't really do anything dangerously underhanded. When was trying to do whatever was necessary (in the bounds of law) to get who one loves illegal?

My point exactly. Specially because Taiga and Kitamura are not official, they are not dating and what is more, Taiga seems to be emotionally 'two-timing' even if her second affections remains unclear to her.

So why should Kihara give up her happiness for Taiga? Just because Taiga screamed and fought for Kitamura, or because she is cute? Kihara may not be that screamer as Taiga but she can love him just as hard, or even more as she doesn't seem to be interested in other guys, intentionally or not.

So all is fair. She just does what she can to win her love, if Taiga is too stupid or too kind to do anything like that - well, good luck for her writing unhappy love poems.

SageGaiGar · 2009-01-30, 14:00

I'm guessing Maya may be in a similiar camp as Ami in trying to everyone to clear up their feelings. Or...troll hard.

Tyabann · 2009-01-30, 16:49

Ah, that was enjoyable.

Great episode, in general. A couple things I especially enjoyed:

-The side characters are actually getting some attention (well, everyone except poor Nanako) which you don't see too often... you get the feeling that they're actual people with their own dreams and identities, even if the focus isn't on them.

-Relatedly, Haruta has the greatest and most insane dreams ever.

-That damn bird needs to be put down. Even if it is hilarious.

-Ryuuji appears to be feeling some brand of jealousy near the end, even if he really doesn't understand it himself. I also love how they're still keeping Taiga's feelings ambiguous, though she's still clearly crushing over Kitamura...

typhonsentra · 2009-01-30, 16:52

Guys, I wasn't saying she doesn't have a right to go after him. What I don't like is how she's bringing Ryuuji into her plan to further her own agenda. Your own feelings are one thing, it's another entirely when you start using other people to get what you want. She doesn't really seem to care what he wants, she just views him as a way of getting a potential rival out of the picture, and I suspect she's going to start some trouble in the next episode (Possibly starting a rumor about him wanting Taiga which'll get back to Minori (Speculation)). Even if a real person might behave like this, it's still a pretty shitty thing to do.

Isekaijin · 2009-01-30, 16:54

Wow, Since when Kihara became a main character?

Those four or five lines she said had made the whole chapter focus around her ... But she is right, despite all the selfishness stuff, a TaigaxKitamura relationship would be boring as hell.

I've noticed also that Ryuuji is a bit slow. First not noticing the ejem... flatness of Taiga, then Taiga's father, Ami's indirect feelings, and now this Kihara business. I mean, she wasn't exactly hiding it, right?

I laughed specially hard with Inko-chan the ruler of the Takasu household, and with the love problems of Yuri-sensei (again). This never gets old.

But the new and sulky Minorin is something I can't get used to yet. What's the problem with her? Apparently she likes Ryuuji and he likes her back. And Taiga has her crush with Kitamura. Unless she is worring about Ami(which I honestly doubt) I can't see any problems. She should just go for him. That's not like her at all.

Everyone bow before Inko-chan

typhonsentra · 2009-01-30, 16:57

They kinda dumbed down Ryuuji in the show. In the books at the end of Volume 2 Ami tells Ryuuji that Kitamura has a "Special Someone", and one of the people he suspects is Maya.

Led_Zeppelin · 2009-01-30, 17:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isekaijin

Spoiler:

What i Think, is that Minori Believes that Taiga Have some feelings for Ryuuji...

and she feel like she is betraying her best friend...

BTW All hail Inko-chan!!!

ALL HAIL ZEPPELIN!!!!!

View Poll Results: Toradora! - Episode 17 Rating
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2009-01-30, 10:38	Link #84
asrielchase Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Age: 35	I don't see Maya as incredibly selfish.. She saw what Taiga did for Kitamura, knew she likes him, felt threatened and decides to act more decisively, that's it. Taiga and Kitamura isn't even a couple yet. Ultimately it all depends on who Kitamura likes, anyway. __________________ エル・プサイ・コングルゥ

2009-01-30, 11:11	Link #86
arkxkra 全力全開 Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Non-management 97th world	Erm, good episode also. The relationship getting confuse and complicated now, since it almost the end, guess some of them start to realise their own feeling by few more episode. Love the new opening and ending theme, especially the ending theme ^^. __________________ \| Anime Series' Window XP/7 Theme \|

2009-01-30, 13:18	Link #92
physics223 In the Tatami Galaxy ↓ Join Date: Feb 2006	I didn't think Kihara was anything short of human. She was even quite civil with Taiga, and didn't really do anything dangerously underhanded. When was trying to do whatever was necessary (in the bounds of law) to get who one loves illegal? __________________ anime\|otaku - hypotheses, analyses, and musings on The Tatami Galaxy \|\| The REAL first handheld console with color!

2009-01-30, 13:29	Link #93
Vexx Obey the Darkly Cute ... Author Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ... Age: 66	We could retell this story from Kihara's point of view and we'd have a bunch of people outraged at Taiga. Kihara's had a long crush on Kitamura as well and was unaware of any activity on the Taiga-Kitamura channel til recently (or thought the idea absurd). This is a bit like watching a harem series but from a completely unique camera/point-of-view perspective well away from the "guy". Very interesting. Taiga doesn't "own" Kitamura - actually, no one owns anyone in any manner so far in the series outside of being comrades/friends. Taiga really needed Ryuuji, but now (at least in appearance) she's become more independent so that claim has become pretty murky. __________________ "It Really IS Rocket Science", Novel series rough drafts; vol. 1 thru vol. 3 complete Volume 4 in work, Visit the thread for short stories! Last edited by Vexx; 2009-01-30 at 13:53.

2009-01-30, 10:34	Link #82
typhonsentra Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: USA	No she's not, she's bringing other involuntarily in. Her trying to grasp happiness would be her outright telling Kitamura how she feels, not forcing Ryuuji and Taiga to pair up because she sees Taiga as an obstacle. The way she's trying to use Ryuuji is just rotten.

2009-01-30, 10:42	Link #85
wistfulloner Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Singapore	It's nice that someone actually sees things in my light. Kihara doesn't know how much Kitamura means to Taiga, and while the rest are trying to pair the two up, Kihara obstinately wants to deny her happiness for the sake of her own. She probably won't get it, although it would be interesting to see what happens when you throw an odd vector into the mix.

2009-01-30, 11:47	Link #87
puppygod Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Warsaw, PL Age: 46	What? So, suddenly Kihara is the bad one? Because... What she actually did? Said that Taiga and Kitamura wouldn't be good couple and encouraged Ryuuji a little? Honestly, I can't see anything wrong with that statement. I think she's right. Taiga sure have hots for Yuusaku, but what kind of relationship they have? She barely registers on his radar. Also, they barely even can hold a meaningful conversation. It's extremely one-sided and shallow relation, if anything. And if we can judge from those very few hints we had, Maya had crush for Kitamura for at least as long as Taiga. I can't really see anything wrong with what she is doing. Trying to set Taiga with Ryuuji (who apparently gets along with her very well) is certainly more rational and civilized way than breaking into classmate house, attempted murder or starting armed fights on school grounds Overall, I enjoyed that episode more than I expected. Good setting for new arc, further character development and it was refreshing to see background characters more involved than usual.

2009-01-30, 12:02	Link #89
Caster13 =^_^= Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Mississauga	I'm really glad that the supporting characters took a bigger role this episode. It adds to the school atmosphere (and drama!). It certainly looks as if it is Minorin's turn to be emotional. I can't wait for her real feelings to be revealed and for what ever will happen to help her over come. The chains of characters going through their troubles (first Kitamura now Minorin) may be a lot of drama that's bad for our mental state, but it's a fact that the web of relationships within a group of people moves and shakes out in a ripple effect. Seeing Taiga as she was this episode was a delight. Both child-like and perhaps unconsciously yearning for redemption, I wonder if she enjoys the Christmas season not so much because of the lights and decorations but because Santa's all-seeing eye pushes her to redeem herself for all that she's done in the past year. She knows she can be a pain in the neck and this season puts her in the mood to make up for it. I do think that Maya's being a little selfish when it comes to Kitamura. I wouldn't blame her for it however. It's only natural for anyone to try and avoid heart ache. But even more importantly, she's right about Takasu and Taiga being better off together--or at least, I'm sure many of us would agree with that. After all, it even provoked a response from Ryuuji.

2009-01-30, 12:42	Link #90
ThoHell Senior Member Join Date: May 2006	Hmm...interesting episode. New OP and ED, pretty good. So, why does Ami appear so little? With that little screen time she has, she plays such a huge important factor in turning the wheel. Not really enjoying this series right now, hopefully it improves next week. Last episode was good, but this one and the preview of the next..... I dunno.

2009-01-30, 14:00	Link #95
SageGaiGar You are Next Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: NE USA	I'm guessing Maya may be in a similiar camp as Ami in trying to everyone to clear up their feelings. Or...troll hard.

2009-01-30, 16:49	Link #96
Tyabann Homo Ludens Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Canada Age: 34	Ah, that was enjoyable. Great episode, in general. A couple things I especially enjoyed: -The side characters are actually getting some attention (well, everyone except poor Nanako) which you don't see too often... you get the feeling that they're actual people with their own dreams and identities, even if the focus isn't on them. -Relatedly, Haruta has the greatest and most insane dreams ever. -That damn bird needs to be put down. Even if it is hilarious. -Ryuuji appears to be feeling some brand of jealousy near the end, even if he really doesn't understand it himself. I also love how they're still keeping Taiga's feelings ambiguous, though she's still clearly crushing over Kitamura...

2009-01-30, 16:52	Link #97
typhonsentra Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: USA	Guys, I wasn't saying she doesn't have a right to go after him. What I don't like is how she's bringing Ryuuji into her plan to further her own agenda. Your own feelings are one thing, it's another entirely when you start using other people to get what you want. She doesn't really seem to care what he wants, she just views him as a way of getting a potential rival out of the picture, and I suspect she's going to start some trouble in the next episode (Possibly starting a rumor about him wanting Taiga which'll get back to Minori (Speculation)). Even if a real person might behave like this, it's still a pretty shitty thing to do.

2009-01-30, 16:54	Link #98
Isekaijin Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008	Wow, Since when Kihara became a main character? Those four or five lines she said had made the whole chapter focus around her ... But she is right, despite all the selfishness stuff, a TaigaxKitamura relationship would be boring as hell. I've noticed also that Ryuuji is a bit slow. First not noticing the ejem... flatness of Taiga, then Taiga's father, Ami's indirect feelings, and now this Kihara business. I mean, she wasn't exactly hiding it, right? I laughed specially hard with Inko-chan the ruler of the Takasu household, and with the love problems of Yuri-sensei (again). This never gets old. But the new and sulky Minorin is something I can't get used to yet. What's the problem with her? Apparently she likes Ryuuji and he likes her back. And Taiga has her crush with Kitamura. Unless she is worring about Ami(which I honestly doubt) I can't see any problems. She should just go for him. That's not like her at all. Everyone bow before Inko-chan

2009-01-30, 16:57	Link #99
typhonsentra Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: USA	They kinda dumbed down Ryuuji in the show. In the books at the end of Volume 2 Ami tells Ryuuji that Kitamura has a "Special Someone", and one of the people he suspects is Maya.