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Old 2012-05-25, 09:31   Link #9101
ziggi92
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What interest me most now is what kind of vehicles they will Fight on now we seen fight on ship, now on airplane what next ? on CAR or bicycle but more likely a on train.

Looking Foward
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Old 2012-05-25, 10:33   Link #9102
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Is Zen's devil style is a style in the similar sense to the suitor family's styles?

And what about his ability to draw out other's strength would that be considered a style/plus ability?
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Old 2012-05-25, 11:27   Link #9103
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Tsurubami would probably be considered a special, yet his style(Kamone System) makes him far stronger than any abnormal we've seen so far. Medaka was able to defeat him by copying 1/3 of his style, IIRC.
She didn't really copy his style. She just solved 1/3 of his Kamome System and that was apparently enough to defeat him.
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Old 2012-05-25, 11:40   Link #9104
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Yea Medaka never copied his style, just figured part of it out.
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Old 2012-05-25, 11:43   Link #9105
Tenchi Hou Take
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She didn't really copy his style. She just solved 1/3 of his Kamome System and that was apparently enough to defeat him.
May as well be considered as she did if she understands it to such a degree she's copied it anyway (she only needs a description to copy). She doesn't need to understand how it works just it does, which she clearly figured out.
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Old 2012-05-25, 11:45   Link #9106
Randrak42
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Originally Posted by Tenchi Hou Take View Post
May as well be considered as she did if she understands it to such a degree she's copied it anyway (she only needs a description to copy). She doesn't need to understand how it works just it does, which she clearly figured out.
We know she can copy skills but was it ever stated that she can copy styles?
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Old 2012-05-25, 11:51   Link #9107
Tenchi Hou Take
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Originally Posted by Randrak42 View Post
We know she can copy skills but was it ever stated that she can copy styles?
Technically she should be able to but she probably can't (as shounen logic goes), if Kanome system counts as a style. (I was still thinking of it as subgenre of skills but now I think about it it's probably a style)

I mean she can master knowledge, technques and practically anything anyone can learn to do as well as anything they're born with, so unless it's from an outside influence she should logically be able to copy it or at the very least instantly understand how to acquire, it.

Medaka box is weird in the sense that none of it's abilities make any sense what so ever, even amongst shounens. Showns typically have power set or supernatural entities to explain their abilities, e.g chakra reiatsu devil fruits and haki, dying will etc. Medaka box has jack shit it just explains it's shit. It before had something to do with unlocking all the potential of the human mind but that went out the window. So we're pretty much left to assume these things happen with not even the slightest explaination why...

If styles are what they imply unless they come from a completely external source tehy should be learnable by any normal human (or at least any human gifted enough) so that logically means she should be able to copy it. But they probably aren't.
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Old 2012-05-25, 12:03   Link #9108
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Given that Ajimu said Medaka could copy Zenkichi's "Maestro" nature that draws out 200% of his companions's abilities and such, I wouldn't be surprised is she could copy such things.

Now, I'm seriously thinking what the hell was the author thinking by naming Zen's personal skill Devil Style. The fact it's neither a plus nor a minus(refer to Naze's quote in the latest chapter) makes me cringe with the feeling that i'm being trolled again.
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Old 2012-05-25, 12:08   Link #9109
Tyabann
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Originally Posted by Wolfenstein View Post
Kikajima has one(Voice-fightning), Akune has one(Mimicry)
Those are considered Skills, though.

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Originally Posted by j0x View Post
after some googling i think Styles vs Skills is like Talent vs Skill
Actually, Plus/Minus Skills are far more akin to "talents" than anything else, the way they're described.
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Old 2012-05-25, 12:15   Link #9110
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Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
Those are considered Skills, though.
Nope. That's why Mogana and Akune aren't in the Abnormal Class, but are classified as Specials. Mogana has a powerful lung capacity while Kouki is good at mimicking, apparently. Specials are separate from Abnormals because they don't posses skills.

Only the Abnormals posses an abnormality(plus-skills). Same thing with the minuses possesing a minus(minus-skills).
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Old 2012-05-25, 12:19   Link #9111
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I wonder if all this is a refernce to how powers are used in shonen manga altough they usually involve chakra, chi, ki or some other source. How do abnormals get their powers?
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Old 2012-05-25, 12:51   Link #9112
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Yes, I don't know about them being Styles, but I's sure that Kikaijima and Akune's sctiks are no skills. Skills are basically what makes Abnormals a notch above the rest (Not-Equals seem to be more like Skill creators than users...or something like that...they are weird and not explained >_>)

It's funny...in my eyes while Skills seem overwhelming at times, I still find that Styles are much more versatile and usable in combat (not counting the God Mode skills like stopping time and so on).

And the problem with Medaka Box's theories still stands: We can speculate all we want, but when it comes to the reveals, Nishio usually goes around and kicks us in the ass with a big Chuck Testa.
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Old 2012-05-25, 12:54   Link #9113
Tyabann
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Originally Posted by Wolfenstein View Post
Specials are separate from Abnormals because they don't posses skills.
Specials are different from Abnormals because their skills don't rule their entire lives, like they do with Abnormals. Specials still have skills; even Normals can have skills, just that they are not born with them.

The difference is that Normals and Special skills are not supernatural, unlike Abnormals.

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Originally Posted by Guernsey View Post
How do abnormals get their powers?
To answer your question, and expand upon the above a little, Abnormals are simply born with their abilities, and it seems that while Plus skills have some sort of reality-based, scientific justification, Minus skills do not.
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Old 2012-05-25, 12:57   Link #9114
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Given that Ajimu said Medaka could copy Zenkichi's "Maestro" nature that draws out 200% of his companions's abilities and such, I wouldn't be surprised is she could copy such things.
Actually, Medaka replied saying that she doesn't think it's possible to copy his nature.
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Old 2012-05-25, 12:58   Link #9115
Randrak42
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Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post

To answer your question, and expand upon the above a little, Abnormals are simply born with their abilities, and it seems that while Plus skills have some sort of reality-based, scientific justification, Minus skills do not.
No, if I remember correctly the explanation we received was that Plus skills usually are something from within the user that affects their own bodies while Minus skills are abilities that affect their environment and others.

I don't remember which chapter it was explained but I shall search for it.
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Old 2012-05-25, 13:27   Link #9116
Tenchi Hou Take
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Actually, Medaka replied saying that she doesn't think it's possible to copy his nature.
No aijimu said she could, Medaka also seemed mildly agree to likely being able to could but never bothered to try/believed it to be phenominom.
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Old 2012-05-25, 13:30   Link #9117
Tyabann
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Originally Posted by Randrak42 View Post
No, if I remember correctly the explanation we received was that Plus skills usually are something from within the user that affects their own bodies while Minus skills are abilities that affect their environment and others.
That's the official explanation, sure, but I'm extrapolating here.

Notice how during the Flask Plan arc all the Abnormalities received some kind of psuedoscience justification (except, notably, the Plus Six). Then Kumagawa came along and the manga stopped bothering to justify anything.
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Old 2012-05-25, 13:58   Link #9118
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Originally Posted by Randrak42 View Post
Yes, I don't know about them being Styles, but I's sure that Kikaijima and Akune's sctiks are no skills. Skills are basically what makes Abnormals a notch above the rest (Not-Equals seem to be more like Skill creators than users...or something like that...they are weird and not explained >_>)

It's funny...in my eyes while Skills seem overwhelming at times, I still find that Styles are much more versatile and usable in combat (not counting the God Mode skills like stopping time and so on).

And the problem with Medaka Box's theories still stands: We can speculate all we want, but when it comes to the reveals, Nishio usually goes around and kicks us in the ass with a big Chuck Testa.
Agreed. It seems like Nishio is so off beat that he seems to genuinely enjoy crushing our expectations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
Specials are different from Abnormals because their skills don't rule their entire lives, like they do with Abnormals. Specials still have skills; even Normals can have skills, just that they are not born with them.

The difference is that Normals and Special skills are not supernatural, unlike Abnormals.

To answer your question, and expand upon the above a little, Abnormals are simply born with their abilities, and it seems that while Plus skills have some sort of reality-based, scientific justification, Minus skills do not.
That makes some sense considering how the powers are distributed. I know in Naruto, every has special abilities but the source usually comes from chakra, the internal spiritual energy that ninja use in the series. Medaka is still a power copying demi goddess although that isn't too different from protagonists such as Kenshiro from Fist of the North star or Maki from Air Master. She is still a sue.
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Old 2012-05-25, 14:26   Link #9119
Tempest35
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Hnn, another addition to the Skills thing between Normals, Specials, and Abnormals.

Skills are some that can be learned, a Talent is a 'Skill' that you have inherited due to birth and/or enviornment. Skills//Talents are things that one learns to be able to interact with their enviornemnt on a different level:
- A Normal learns normal skills normally (watching/studying/working at it). The basic skills come easy but they may/not learn more advanced ones.
- A Special usually has a basic skill or two already at Lv 2 so they don't need to stay long at the basic Lv 1 for long, which gives them more time to perfect it. They also have the thing where their special ability only really comes out when they are in the right enviornment for it.
- An Abnormal usually has just one or two skills that are so maxed out, it seems hax. This can usually cause some of their 'normal/basic' skills to lack as well. They are also defined by that skill that they have. Where a Special's skills really come out in the situation best-suited for it, an Abnormal's skill can come out regardless of the situation.

Well, that's my take on it

As for the styles...I equate them to 'systems'. I haven't seen enough to come up with an analysis like how I did for the Skills but it seems that these 'Systems' were made to combat against those with 'Skills'. In theory, a 'system' should work, regardless of what kind of skills you may/not have. You might have skills that make learning the system easier for you but a system should work regardless of who learns and uses it.

Once a 'System' user takes out/disables/'nulls' the skill that defines a 'Skill' user, the 'Skill' user would be at a supreme disadvantage.
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Old 2012-05-25, 15:36   Link #9120
Tenchi Hou Take
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Originally Posted by Tempest35 View Post
Hnn, another addition to the Skills thing between Normals, Specials, and Abnormals.

Skills are some that can be learned, a Talent is a 'Skill' that you have inherited due to birth and/or enviornment. Skills//Talents are things that one learns to be able to interact with their enviornemnt on a different level:
- A Normal learns normal skills normally (watching/studying/working at it). The basic skills come easy but they may/not learn more advanced ones.
- A Special usually has a basic skill or two already at Lv 2 so they don't need to stay long at the basic Lv 1 for long, which gives them more time to perfect it. They also have the thing where their special ability only really comes out when they are in the right enviornment for it.
- An Abnormal usually has just one or two skills that are so maxed out, it seems hax. This can usually cause some of their 'normal/basic' skills to lack as well. They are also defined by that skill that they have. Where a Special's skills really come out in the situation best-suited for it, an Abnormal's skill can come out regardless of the situation.

Well, that's my take on it

As for the styles...I equate them to 'systems'. I haven't seen enough to come up with an analysis like how I did for the Skills but it seems that these 'Systems' were made to combat against those with 'Skills'. In theory, a 'system' should work, regardless of what kind of skills you may/not have. You might have skills that make learning the system easier for you but a system should work regardless of who learns and uses it.

Once a 'System' user takes out/disables/'nulls' the skill that defines a 'Skill' user, the 'Skill' user would be at a supreme disadvantage.
The way you describe "systems" sound largely ineffective, skills can be anything and everything, so you can't counter those specific abilities without knowing what they are and coming up on the spot with a system to counter it, otherwise a system beating a skill is just plain luck. Much like a skill beating a system, though skills users would like have had there abilities longer.

It's like someone having a gun and you coming up with a martial arts to defeat that person, your going to need more prep than what you'll likely get more likely you'll need a bullet proof shield and those just don't hang around and it's the same with your definition of systems. Really in the grand scheme of things for it to compete with skill users they'd have to be pretty similar but with more well defined limitations as shown.

Really for Nisio to go this route he seriously didn't think his through, He completely shitted on the battle portion of this manga and is basically coming back to see turds everywhere. He should have put in well defined limitations on all of his abilities which a large amount seem to lack, without those defined limitations your stuck with unrealistic hard counter battles especially with the jokers. Basically you'd either need someone above aijimu or extremely specialised to almost ass pull level abilities to counter them.

These complex mechanics only really work with Zenkichi's group because their pretty low on the hax scale, but when you have such a large amount of overpowered characters with ill defined limitations, introducing battles that depend on specfific battle mechanics becomes either worthless or riduclous.
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