One Piece Film "Z" discussion (manga spoilers)

[marvelB]

Heh, nice to see all this juicy info trickling out now. This really DOES make up for the lack of a chapter this week.


Anyway, I'm also gunning for Dofla being the one who sliced off Z's arm. I mean, it would be kind of random if it turned out to be FORMER WARLORD FROM ROGER'S ERA or whatever. Plus, the fact that a guy like Dofla was capable of crippling an admiral to that extent would just hype him up even further as a major enemy in the series proper.


And yeah, looks like Z is a true badass. A mentor of the 3 admirals (as well as being able to fight on par with them), an arm made out of freaking SEASTONE, and ISN'T a DF user!? Well, I'll be damned. Also, what really impresses me is that (yeah, I'll be putting this in spoiler tags although this already is a spoiler thread):

Spoiler:

Not only is Luffy NOT the one to finish off Z (this end up being Kizaru's duty), but Z apparently DIES at the end! WOW! AND we may get to see Sengoku fight in this movie!??? Man, Oda really went all-out for this project, didn't he....?


Also, awesome to know that Z's full name is Zephyr. Still, all this info may possibly create even greater confusion than Strong World in terms of what's considered canon or not.....

Originally Posted by Kona

I don't see how a stone can cause so many problems, Shirahosi is not stronger than Luffy and never will be.

Dude, you're missing the point (again). Z's aim is basically to destroy the whole world. And no world = no Age of Piracy. Get it now?

Originally Posted by grey_1960

Trio of the Past
I won't be surprised if Garp was the mystery person. He may have turned down the title but he still fought with the top.

Maybe, but I sort of doubt that Garp would be counted as being "officially" part of the trio since he was still a VA back then. I'm kind of thinking that the admiral trio are meant to be a symbol of sorts among the marine (like how it's necessary to have seven pirates to make up the shichibukai).....

[Blackbeard D. Kuma]

Originally Posted by Kona

I don't see how a stone can cause so many problems, Shirahosi is not stronger than Luffy and never will be.

She herself is not stronger than Luffy, but the power she holds makes Luffy pale in comparison. The 3 ancient weapons hold frightening power; this is a fact.

[Kona]

Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma

She herself is not stronger than Luffy, but the power she holds makes Luffy pale in comparison. The 3 ancient weapons hold frightening power; this is a fact.

If it was a fact that you're claiming, it would of said she would have potential to be stronger than Luffy when we found out who she was.

[Blackbeard D. Kuma]

Originally Posted by Kona

If it was a fact that you're claiming, it would of said she would have potential to be stronger than Luffy when we found out who she was.

We're not talking about the individuals here, but rather the power they possess. Luffy's power is not comparable in the slightest to that of an ancient weapon's. Period.

[marvelB]

Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma

We're not talking about the individuals here, but rather the power they possess. Luffy's power is not comparable in the slightest to that of an ancient weapon's. Period.

To add on to this, imagine that Luffy is a gun while Shira is a nuke. Now Kona, can you tell us which is the stronger "weapon"? Or do you seriously think a single shot from a pistol can destroy the whole world?

[Randrak42]

Hmm...if we were to make one-on-one fight Shirahoshi vs Luffy...there's a lot of variables to work with. On land Luffy would get to Shirahoshi and murder her before she could even call the Sea Kings, in water on the other hand Luffy has near 0 mobility so she would have enough to to gain distance and call the Sea Kings to take him out. But let's say Shirahoshi was on a bubble where she could move freely as if in water and they were surrounded by water except for a platform...Luffy would get to her before the Sea Kings even got there. But again...many variables come into play.

If we're talking about who can destroy more and better, Shirahoshi takes it hands down considering that some Sea Kings are bigger than large islands...

[Blackbeard D. Kuma]

Yeah, this movie concludes in a way that I didn't expect (which is nice and keeps the power levels in perspective). Hopefully, we'll also see Akainu's post-skip appearance; it just wouldn't feel right to see all the marines' big shots but him. But the one thing I totally didn't expect at all was Doflamingo's involvement in Z's past. Just how many people's business has this guy stuck his nose into? He never ceases to amaze me. And this basically confirms that Doflamingo became a shichibukai 10 years ago since that's when Z left the marines.

[Kona]

Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma

We're not talking about the individuals here, but rather the power they possess. Luffy's power is not comparable in the slightest to that of an ancient weapon's. Period.

We don't know what Luffy is capable of so saying that is too early. Now where does in the manga that it says Shirahosi is stronger than Luffy?

Originally Posted by marvelB

To add on to this, imagine that Luffy is a gun while Shira is a nuke. Now Kona, can you tell us which is the stronger "weapon"? Or do you seriously think a single shot from a pistol can destroy the whole world?

I'm not gonna agree with Shirahosi who controls sea kings which got sliced by Momoga effortlessly.

[Kanon]

Thanks for the spoiler info. This movie sounds really, really great. This feels like a story that could have easily been in the manga. In fact, I think it sounds better than the two recent arcs of the manga.

[Blackbeard D. Kuma]

Originally Posted by Kona

We don't know what Luffy is capable of so saying that is too early. Now where does in the manga that it says Shirahosi is stronger than Luffy?

I'm not gonna agree with Shirahosi who controls sea kings which got sliced by Momoga effortlessly.

Do you not know how to read? Where did we say that Shirahoshi is stronger than Luffy? Direct us to where we said that. I guarantee you won't be able to find that.

You do know that the sea king Momonga took out is nowhere near comparable to the sea kings Shirahoshi can summon, right? I suggest you get your eyes checked, because the sea kings on Fishman Island were island sized (which is extremely massive).

[grey_1960]

Originally Posted by marvelB

Maybe, but I sort of doubt that Garp would be counted as being "officially" part of the trio since he was still a VA back then. I'm kind of thinking that the admiral trio are meant to be a symbol of sorts among the marine (like how it's necessary to have seven pirates to make up the shichibukai).....

Symbol
Garp fought gold rogers, I don't know how much more symbolic you can get. Kong tried to promote Garp, so the Marines thought highly of Garp and his capabilities. If Garp had any interest I think he would have beaten Sengoku for the title of Fleet Admiral.

[Kona]

Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma

Do you not know how to read? Where did we say that Shirahoshi is stronger than Luffy? Direct us to where we said that. I guarantee you won't be able to find that.

You do know that the sea king Momonga took out is nowhere near comparable to the sea kings Shirahoshi can summon, right? I suggest you get your eyes checked, because the sea kings on Fishman Island were island sized (which is extremely massive).

Doesn't matter if the Sea kings there are bigger, doesn't say anything about them being stronger. If Momonga can effortlessly take one down I don't see a difference between the ones near FI.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qBd8yCpxwQ

Here's the vid Momonga cakewalking the seaking just in case you forget.

[Blackbeard D. Kuma]

Originally Posted by Kona

Doesn't matter if the Sea kings there are bigger, doesn't say anything about them being stronger. If Momonga can effortlessly take one down I don't see a difference between the ones near FI.

Yes, it doesn't say anything about them being stronger besides them holding the noah ship (which is the size of Fishman Island, mind you) with no effort. You think the WG would consider Poseidon an ancient weapon if a mere vice admiral can solo an army of monstrous sea kings that have the power to destroy the world? Again, get your eyes checked. You know, Oda doesn't exactly have to explicitly state something verbatim for us readers to understand. I'd imagine that he expects the readers to use their brains as well; no need to spoon feed us.

[Blackbeard D. Kuma]

Originally Posted by grey_1960

If Garp had any interest I think he would have beaten Sengoku for the title of Fleet Admiral.

Based on what?

[Kona]

Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma

Yes, it doesn't say anything about them being stronger besides them holding the noah ship (which is the size of Fishman Island, mind you) with no effort. You think the WG would consider Poseidon an ancient weapon if a mere vice admiral can solo an army of monstrous sea kings that have the power to destroy the world? Again, get your eyes checked. You know, Oda doesn't exactly have to explicitly state something verbatim for us readers to understand. I'd imagine that he expects the readers to use their brains as well; no need to spoon feed us.

I said he took one down effortlessly, and we don't know how strong the Sea Kings are but a mere VA took one down with no effort. Shirahosi is weak herself so going through sea kings and attacking her shouldn't be that hard. Shirahosi isn't going to be stronger than Luffy.

WB had power to destroy the world. Why wasn't his fruit considered an ancient weapon?

[grey_1960]

Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma

Based on what?

Know your self and Know your enemies
Garp is not an idiot. Sengoku thought shiki was gone but Garp knew he would return. He knew Rayliegh's habit has well has the marines capabilities when a marine questioned if they should send the location of Raleigh's position to Fleet Admiral Sengoku. Garp may act stupid at times but underneath he is a person that should never be over looked or underestimated. Akoiji has great respect for him, the Marines acknowledge him has a hero, and Kong saw fit to try and promote him couple of times. His service and dedication to the Marines should not be overlooked. He is also not a weak person. Even in his old age he put Marco Phoenix in his place at Marine Ford. What kind of power did he have in his prime? Also Kong and Garp's may have been close, seeing how Garp treated Admiral Kong during the meeting in strong world chapter. I won't be surprised if Kong was the reason why Garp joined.

Z
I saw the spoilers posted on Marvel B's post. He truly is a badass and a powerful person. If wonder if Oda will make this the first movie to tie into the Manga.

[marvelB]

Originally Posted by grey_1960

Symbol
Garp fought gold rogers, I don't know how much more symbolic you can get. Kong tried to promote Garp, so the Marines thought highly of Garp and his capabilities. If Garp had any interest I think he would have beaten Sengoku for the title of Fleet Admiral.

I don't doubt that Garp was already admiral-level at that time (chapter 0 even confirmed that much, in fact). I'm just saying I have my doubts that he would be considered a legit member of the marines' "Monster Trio" since he was never promoted. I mean, we already know he's a legend, but I see it more as a legend of his own than shared among a group of peers.


That's why I'm wondering if the marines back then had their own admiral trio whom everyone respected/feared in the same vein as the trio we're more familiar with. It seems clear now that Z was one of them, so if we pair him and Sengoku then there should be one more person (of admiral rank) to make this trinity complete.....


And as far as Garp battling Sengoku for the FA rank goes.... I don't see that happening. Mainly because the two of them seem to have a kind of brotherly relationship, so I doubt they'd find a need to fight each other to the death for the sake of status.....

Originally Posted by Kanon

This feels like a story that could have easily been in the manga. In fact, I think it sounds better than the two recent arcs of the manga.

Hey now, Punk Hazard ain't over just yet! Let's put that particular judgement on hold until AFTER the storyline is finished, eh?

Originally Posted by grey_1960

Z
I saw the spoilers posted on Marvel B's post. He truly is a badass and a powerful person. If wonder if Oda will make this the first movie to tie into the Manga.

Actually, it was BDK who posted the spoilers this time around. I only added my comments.

[grey_1960]

^
I don't see them battling either. I meant has promotion wise. And thanks BDK spoiler.

[marvelB]

So someone over at AP who managed to see the premiere of the movie posted the latter half of that plot summary that BDK posted earlier. Therefore, credit goes to sandman from AP for this juicy info:

Spoiler for 2nd half of plot summary:

Aokiji meets straw hat pirates, and tells them about the background
of Z and what the End Point is. According to Aokiji, Z plans to end
the great pirate era by blasting the three End Points (huge magma reservoir）
in New World.

The existence of End Points is known to people as fake.
Only high-ranking officials of World Government and Marine
know it is true.

Garp tells Coby and Helmeppo about Z.

Z's real name is Admiral "Black Arm" Zephr. His wife and child
were killed by a pirate. This made him add to hatred to pirates.
Afterward, very strong pirate (devil fruit user) cut his arm off
and annihilated his military units except Ein and Bins.

When the pirate joined Shichibukai, Z was displeased at Government and
left Marine. Coby trembles at the power of the pirate who cut off arm of
admiral.

Luffy confronts Z in the desert of the island, but he is
neutralized by a bullet of sea stone.

Z picks the straw hat up and proposes to destoroy the straw hat
and great pirate era. Luffy naturally gets angry, but he is
knocked out by the strong attack such as smasher tornado.
Z destroys the End Point of this island.

Aokiji meets the straw hat pirates and gives them the eternal
pose of the Period Island (last island).

The straw hat pirates venture into the Period island changing
their costumes. Franky backs up. Luffy runs towrads Z in a bee-line.
Zoro and Sanji begin to fight against Ein and Binz.

Luffy arrives at Z. Final battle begins. Luffy succeeds to destroy
smasher by indenting sea stone.(smasher consists of sea stone). Z's
sunglasses are falling from his face. Z begins to show a vivid face.

Aokiji secretly watches the fight and says "Zephr-sensei is coming
back..."

A fierce fight continues, but finally Z tumbles down running out of
physical strength because of his age.

Luffy barely wins the fight, but Kizaru and about six vice-admirals,
who intend to exterminate Luffy and Z, conftont them.
Z volunteeers to prevent the enemies. Aokiji lets gigantic ice block
appear between Z and Luffy.

Z thanks to Aokiji "Kuzan...you makes my place to die" and rushes
toward the Marines.

Kizaru says "Farewell, Zephr-sensei", and mercilessly shoots Yasakani
no Magatama to Z. Z rushes to Kizaru shouting "Borsalinooooo!!".
Vice-admiral Doberman is crying quietly. Z suffers the damage of
Yasaakani no Magatama, but he keeps his feet.

"I'll give you the last lesson!!"

Straw hat pirates leave the island showing mixed feelings.

Aokiji encourages Ein and Bins who are crying in front of the grave of Z.

【Last scene】 The name of Z derives from the "hero" that Z played in his
childhood.

I'm sorry for my poor English.

My thoughts:

Spoiler:

Damn, Kizaru and a team of SIX VAs finished off Z!? Holy s***! And yeah, Z's loss to Luffy was handled a LOT better than Shiki's, IMO (his age got the better of him, which was also sorta kinda what contributed to Whitebeard's death). Speaking of Whitebeard, it seems that Z died in a similar fashion. This is a really awesome story, indeed. Too bad it's movie exclusive, though. But I'm still thinking that it will have some loose connections with the manga in some way, just like Strong World....

Edit: Other misc. info (again, courtesy of sandman from AP):

Spoiler:

-So the way Ein's modo modo power works is that whoever she touches ages back 12 years. Furthermore, if she ages her opponents past their birth age, they get erased from the world. Apparently, she user her ability on Nami, Chopper, Robin and Brooke (though apparently, Brooke still looks the same, lol). And here, have a gif of Nami being turned into a kid (credit goes to redon from AP for this one):

Spoiler:

-Yes, Z CAN use haki. It was confirmed that both he and Luffy used CoA haki during their battles.

-The monster trio's finishers are Meteor Strike for Sanji (a kick attack similar to his earlier Concasse move), some new sword technique from Zoro where he forms a tiger-shaped aura (sandman said he couldn't hear the attack's name well), and just a regular, nameless punch from Luffy.

-As long as I'm talking about battles here, remember that white Kuma PX model mentioned earlier? Apparently, Z had a bunch of them at his side, but Franky took them out by himself with a Radical Beam in his General Franky mode.


-As far as Sengoku goes, we only see him discussing Z with Garp. For those curious about Akainu, he IS shown, BUT ONLY IN SILHOUETTE FORM. Guess Oda doesn't want to give away EVERYTHING so soon!


-Here's something else interesting: The last conversation between Aokiji and Z before the final battle:

I forgot to insert this article before Luffy confronted Z in the desert.Sorry.

Aokiji sings "Sea knows the beginning of the world.
Sea knows the ending of the world."

Aokiji stands face to face with Z. Aokiji says, "I hated this song..
I didn't have the feeling for requiem in my body."

At the same time, he throw and hand a liquor bottle to Z. "You liked
this brand of liquor, sensei.. I was admiring a cool marine like you"

Z says,"Are you going to give an old man a scolding?
Kuzan, I don't wanna kill you. Leave at once."

Aokiji says, "Me too..." and exercise the hie-hie skill
on his right arm. Right before the battle begins, Aokiji
disarms himself. Aokiji passes by Z. He decides to
watch the justice of Z to the end.

##########

When Z had his arm cut off, the appearances of Ein made little
difference from now she is. Considering that Ein's modo-modo
skill can't exercise for herself, the event seemed to happen 10 years ago or so.

[Blackbeard D. Kuma]

Franky takes out a whole bunch of White Kuma PX models? Now that is awesome. Seeing as how he's not part of the monster trio, that is very impressive.

Akainu in silhouette form, eh? I guess Oda wants to save his full reveal for the manga storyline. What a tease.

Nice to know that some of the buster call VAs (if not all of them) accompany Kizaru to deal with Z.

This film really shows that there's some deep history amongst the marines. I imagine that once everyone gets to see it, the popularity of the marines will surely rise amongst the fanbase.