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Old 2011-01-08, 21:07   Link #11241
GundamFan0083
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JMvS View Post
BTW, in the criminal register, despite strict regulations, France has a serious problem of weapon traffic: now gangsters are using AK47 and even RPGs smuggled from the Balkans, which they use in their turf wars or to attack banks and convoys.

Some have even started to bring their activities across the border in Switzerland and other neighboring countries...

...maybe this will end like the Letten: during the early 90's, it was one of the largest Drug Open Scene in Europe, poisoning the Rail Station area in the country's largest City, until someone started sniping the dealers from afar.
Wow, France?
I would never have thought that.
Thanks for the information.
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Old 2011-01-08, 21:14   Link #11242
solomon
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Well it looks like it'll be while before the press can get a decent profile of the assaliant.

I liked how the Pima County Sherrif called out many people, including the media people (i.e. radio people) for helping to stoke vitriolic comments and craziness. Even if that may not have influenced the gunman, the threats against congresspeople is really lamentable and shameful.
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Old 2011-01-08, 23:32   Link #11243
Urzu 7
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I'm sick of gun related violence in America.

The assailant, they caught him...give him the chair. No trial and years on the waiting list. Just fry him next week...stupid bastard.
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Old 2011-01-08, 23:35   Link #11244
Nosauz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Urzu 7 View Post
I'm sick of gun related violence in America.

The assailant, they caught him...give him the chair. No trial and years on the waiting list. Just fry him next week...stupid bastard.
We live in a country governed by the rule of law, and we will never sacrifice that for the sake of "justice" that is not real justice to recognize the rights to due process. Unalienable rights do exist but it doesn't mean that they are morally acceptable for the punditry to say things like second amendment remedies and what sarah palin said about reloading.
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Old 2011-01-09, 01:03   Link #11245
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First off, the guy was a nut. But there a few disturbing implications.

First off, there's this official Sarah Palin poster with gun sights on several states and targets listed. Gifford is one of them.

Gifford even responded to it:

"Sarah Palin has the crosshairs of a gun sight over our district and when people do that, they’ve gotta realize there are consequences to that action.”
--Gabrielle Gifford March 25, 2010, MSNBC Interview.

And you may wanna look at her opponent, who ran this target Gifford and fire an M-16 event.

Yeah, they didn't directly tell people to shoot their opposition. They merely engaged gun-loving nuts to think about their guns and fire them in opposition to the democratic party... just not at the party. Yep, clean hands here. They didn't encourage loonies and nutjobs at all...

And for the record, I don't care to own a gun(although I find that resolve slipping more and more), but I fully support someone's right to do so. Our founding fathers knew how important it was, and I agree with their reasoning. While some countries can get away with not having guns, all studies show that, in the US, stricter gun control laws mean more gun homicides.

I'll leave it as a mental exercise to find out why that is.
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Old 2011-01-09, 02:11   Link #11246
killer3000ad
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZephyrLeanne View Post
Look, the gunman's aim was the Congress member.
I think he did a service to the US. As far as I see it, all of the multiple-term members are corrupt people influenced by Big Oil/ Big Corp.(Tea Party included).
A 9-year-old girl was killed as well sir.
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Old 2011-01-09, 02:25   Link #11247
GundamFan0083
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As was a federal judge named John Roll.
Roll was a Bush Senior appointee.
It should also be noted that Rep. Gabrielle Gifford was a blue-dog Dem.
I say this because the vitriol that is being spewed by both the right-wing and the left-wing pundits right now is infuriating.

The left is calling Jared Loughner a "tea bagger" who was only doing what Palin/Beck/Limbaugh were encouraging and the right is saying Jared was a "Commie" who was only doing what his favorite books (Mein Kamph and the Communist Manifesto) instructed him to do.

Both sides are full of crap as far as I'm concerned.
This guy was a straight up antisocial lunatic, and that's it.
These vultures who are picking over the dead and injured to push their own political agendas (both right and left) make me sick.
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Old 2011-01-09, 02:31   Link #11248
solomon
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Any word on the Sudanese government vote yet?

I'll be surprised if they DON'T vote for independence. I'll be DUALY surprised if it's peaceful.
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Old 2011-01-09, 02:51   Link #11249
ZephyrLeanne
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solomon View Post
Any word on the Sudanese government vote yet?

I'll be surprised if they DON'T vote for independence. I'll be DUALY surprised if it's peaceful.


Southern Sudanese Begin Historic Vote on Secession

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/10/wo...html?src=twrhp




Quote:
JUBA, Sudan — Southern Sudanese poured into polling stations on Sunday morning to cast their votes in a historic referendum on southern Sudan’s independence.




The lines were packed, thousands of people long, and many voters had been standing in place since 2 a.m.


The referendum is expected to pass by an overwhelming margin, and though the voting will continue for the next week, many people said they wanted to cast their ballots on Sunday.


“Today will go down in history,” said William Lukudu, who arrived before dawn at a polling station in Juba wearing a natty gray suit, bright green shirt and purple tie. “I didn’t want to be left out.”


The referendum ballot has two choices, unity or secession. For Mr. Lukudu, the choice was simple. Secession. That seemed to be the unanimous feeling among the large crowds: after decades of civil war and marginalization and oppression at the hands of Sudan’s Arab rulers, people here said they wanted their own country.


“I’m voting for separation, 100 percent plus,” said Susan Duku, a southern Sudanese woman who works for the United Nations. “I feel like I’m going to a new land.”


Salva Kiir, the president of southern Sudan, which has been semi-autonomous since a peace treaty was signed in 2005, cast his ballot Sunday morning as the polls opened.


“This is the historical moment the people of south Sudan have been waiting for,” he said. He spoke at a polling station near the tomb of John Garang, who is considered the father of southern Sudan’s modern liberation movement. Mr. Garang died in a helicopter crash in 2005, just months after signing the landmark treaty that set the referendum in motion.


Mr. Kiir, who was close to Mr. Garang, said, “Dr. John and all those who died with him, I can assure you that they did not die in vain.”
If the referendum passes, southern Sudan will declare independence in July.



Several unresolved issues remain, including demarcating the disputed border and striking a deal to share revenues from Sudan’s oil, most of which comes from the south.
Two things:

1. The vote is a staggered vote, where people can vote anywhere this week. Including Sudanese overseas.

2. The vote will be peaceful, but the aftermath It seems that no plan has been laid out for secession...?
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Old 2011-01-09, 05:09   Link #11250
Anh_Minh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GundamFan0083 View Post
Your straw maning is burning.
I've already illustrated in detail what I meant.
... Not really. You just said "deter crime". How do you know if it deters crime or not?


Quote:
Compared to what?
Europe has had its fair share of gun crime as reported by the NY Times back in 2002.

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/05/11/in...pe/11SHOO.html

China has a gun problem:

http://shanghaiist.com/2010/06/25/gu...n_the_rise.php

Russia also has its fair share (this happened today, Jan 9th 2011):

http://www.rferl.org/content/Russia_...e/1950184.html

What about Mexico?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36485196...news-americas/

I'd say the US is pretty peaceful in comparison to many places in the world despite having an armed civilian population.
I'll give you Mexico (which I never claimed to be peaceful). Possibly China and Russia, since they're not on the list. Though I have my doubts. In fact, the articles you linked spoke of rising violence in China... from a previously almost non-existing position. And in Russia... well, the Chechen situation is peculiar.

But Europe? Northern Ireland, ok, that has almost as many gun homicides as the US. The rest of it doesn't compare.

Quote:
Riots have nothing to do with the dynamics of gun-crime in the US.
That's a red herring so I won't address it.

The argument isn't how poorly gun-control effects crime, or it's ability to prevent fatalities.
The argument is that gun-control doesn't have any measurable effect at all except to deprive lawful individuals access to the tools that could save their lives in the event of an attack by a criminal.
If gun-control did in fact have a real effect on homicides then Washington DC would be the safest city in the world, and it's not.
Why?
It's because guns don't have anything to do with the motives behind the criminals actions.
It's because there are factors other than gun-control laws. Obviously. Does that mean that gun laws have no effect? You say it's not measurable. I agree. It's not like we can bottle two cities identical save for their gun laws to compare the result. It doesn't mean it has no effect. It just means it's hard to tell. Maybe it would be worse without them. Or maybe, due to the sheer number of firearms already present in the US, it's too late to try and control them.
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Old 2011-01-09, 08:17   Link #11251
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First of all, on the argument that anything may serve as a weapon, meaning that regulating or banning guns won't limit violence.

What a load of bullshit. A car, a pen or a chair can serve as weapons, but that was not their intended purpose. The purpose of a gun is very clear: It openly threatens lives. When you own a car, do you often contemplate using it to run your neighbor over, or does that happen more often when you carry a gun?

Do you not imagine scenarios where you use lethal violence? Do you not think this access encourages violence?

Second of all, on the argument that banning arms sales would have no effect and simply allow outlaws to possess all the firepower.

What a twisted view of the world. You realise that of the available data that we have, the US ranks 7th in gun-related homicides? (Data source is United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime) You're supposed to be world leaders, a flippin' example! Some people still look up to that. (I've long stopped doing it) Perhaps you ought to live up to the standards of civilised society.

Do you seriously think that this culture of violence that you have in place does not give a suitable environment for crime to prosper? Does France, a place where you have to jump through a million hoops to own a gun (My grandmother had to go through a lot in order to keep my grandfather's arms) figure in that same list?

Third of all, on the argument that keeping guns allows you the power to keep your government in check.

Complete Bullshit with a capital B.

The military is supposed to uphold the values of the constitution, for one. The chances of the military suddenly dropping all of these beliefs is, frankly, nil. I've heard enough bullshit about your constitution to believe it is so fucking imprinted in your minds that I could scrub your brain with steel wool that it wouldn't come off.
As for revolution against a country's government, it has happened before without a need for firearms. The French have a history of civil violence and their representatives during the republics have always had to deal with a fickle and powerful public base. Do they own firearms? No. Do they need firearms? No.

Would making weapons more accessible in France increase the crimerate there? Undoubtedly. Does America need more fucking cops? Yes, I think so. But no, wait! Government intruding into your lives! Let's just give people more guns!

If you're going to argument in favor of gun ownership, then at least make a proper fucking case. The American Second Amendment is already disgusting enough without people making a terrible case for it.
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Old 2011-01-09, 08:28   Link #11252
Anh_Minh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frenchie View Post
First of all, on the argument that anything may serve as a weapon, meaning that regulating or banning guns won't limit violence.

What a load of bullshit. A car, a pen or a chair can serve as weapons, but that was not their intended purpose. The purpose of a gun is very clear: It openly threatens lives. When you own a car, do you often contemplate using it to run your neighbor over, or does that happen more often when you carry a gun?

Do you not imagine scenarios where you use lethal violence? Do you not think this access encourages violence?
There are a lot more gun owners than there are murderers. Which just goes to show that there are peaceful uses for guns.

Quote:
Second of all, on the argument that banning arms sales would have no effect and simply allow outlaws to possess all the firepower.

What a twisted view of the world. You realise that of the available data that we have, the US ranks 7th in gun-related homicides? (Data source is United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime)

Do you seriously think that this culture of violence that you have in place does not give a suitable environment for crime to prosper? Does France, a place where you have to jump through a million hoops to own a gun (My grandmother had to go through a lot in order to keep my grandfather's arms) figure in that same list?
Yes, but if you ban guns, you still have that "culture of violence" problem. Which means that they'll either find ways to get their hands on guns, or find ways to murder people without guns. Plenty of non-peaceful uses for knives, after all. Would gun control laws reduce criminality? Hard to say. Would it even reduce gun availability for the criminal element? In the short term, probably not. There are just too many of the damn things already in circulation.
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Old 2011-01-09, 08:33   Link #11253
ganbaru
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Hamas urges militant groups to stop attacking Israel
http://ca.reuters.com/article/topNew...7081OH20110109
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Old 2011-01-09, 08:35   Link #11254
MeoTwister5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frenchie View Post
First of all, on the argument that anything may serve as a weapon, meaning that regulating or banning guns won't limit violence.

What a load of bullshit. A car, a pen or a chair can serve as weapons, but that was not their intended purpose. The purpose of a gun is very clear: It openly threatens lives. When you own a car, do you often contemplate using it to run your neighbor over, or does that happen more often when you carry a gun?

Do you not imagine scenarios where you use lethal violence? Do you not think this access encourages violence?

Second of all, on the argument that banning arms sales would have no effect and simply allow outlaws to possess all the firepower.

What a twisted view of the world. You realise that of the available data that we have, the US ranks 7th in gun-related homicides? (Data source is United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime) You're supposed to be world leaders, a flippin' example! Some people still look up to that. (I've long stopped doing it) Perhaps you ought to live up to the standards of civilised society.

Do you seriously think that this culture of violence that you have in place does not give a suitable environment for crime to prosper? Does France, a place where you have to jump through a million hoops to own a gun (My grandmother had to go through a lot in order to keep my grandfather's arms) figure in that same list?

Third of all, on the argument that keeping guns allows you the power to keep your government in check.

Complete Bullshit with a capital B.

The military is supposed to uphold the values of the constitution, for one. The chances of the military suddenly dropping all of these beliefs is, frankly, nil. I've heard enough bullshit about your constitution to believe it is so fucking imprinted in your minds that I could scrub your brain with steel wool that it wouldn't come off.
As for revolution against a country's government, it has happened before without a need for firearms. The French have a history of civil violence and their representatives during the republics have always had to deal with a fickle and powerful public base. Do they own firearms? No. Do they need firearms? No.

Would making weapons more accessible in France increase the crimerate there? Undoubtedly. Does America need more fucking cops? Yes, I think so. But no, wait! Government intruding into your lives! Let's just give people more guns!

If you're going to argument in favor of gun ownership, then at least make a proper fucking case. The American Second Amendment is already disgusting enough without people making a terrible case for it.
You're third point regarding the American second amendment was made under the supposition that the people were responsible and educated enough to use arms for the right reasons, or at least the vast majority would use them only when necessary. I think history has shown that there are too many individuals without the brain or moral capacity to do so.

The second amendment would be effective if only paired with a responsible, legal and ethical culture that viewed guns as a tool for extreme cases rather than option one, and as a protective tool rather than an offensive. As is the case today where violence and do-whatever-it-takes attitudes take hold of people who take the second amendment as the right to bear arms without the additional clause of responsible bearing of arms, you'll always have people who think they have the right to use their arms as they see fit.

So until the culture of violence is removed from the minds of the people and they are taught just how gigantic the capacity to take the lives of others are, no amount of strict or lax control will ever stop violent crime.
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Old 2011-01-09, 08:45   Link #11255
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
There are a lot more gun owners than there are murderers. Which just goes to show that there are peaceful uses for guns.
I wouldn't call not using a gun a 'peaceful' use for it. I don't think there is anything peaceful about a gun, but I guess that's just me.

Quote:
Yes, but if you ban guns, you still have that "culture of violence" problem. Which means that they'll either find ways to get their hands on guns, or find ways to murder people without guns. Plenty of non-peaceful uses for knives, after all. Would gun control laws reduce criminality? Hard to say. Would it even reduce gun availability for the criminal element? In the short term, probably not. There are just too many of the damn things already in circulation.
You can compare overall crimerates in France and in the US, gun-related or not, rates are higher in the US. But yes, you're right, too many are already in circulation and buy-back strategies by the government have mostly been duds where people get extra cash for weapons that are already in disrepair.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MeoTwister5 View Post
Your third point regarding the American second amendment was made under the supposition that the people were responsible and educated enough to use arms for the right reasons, or at least the vast majority would use them only when necessary. I think history has shown that there are too many individuals without the brain or moral capacity to do so.

The second amendment would be effective if only paired with a responsible, legal and ethical culture that viewed guns as a tool for extreme cases rather than option one, and as a protective tool rather than an offensive. As is the case today where violence and do-whatever-it-takes attitudes take hold of people who take the second amendment as the right to bear arms without the additional clause of responsible bearing of arms, you'll always have people who think they have the right to use their arms as they see fit.

So until the culture of violence is removed from the minds of the people and they are taught just how gigantic the capacity to take the lives of others are, no amount of strict or lax control will ever stop violent crime.
I didn't think of it as stopping crime altogether, but you can rein it in. I understand your argument and I agree with it for the most part.
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Old 2011-01-09, 08:48   Link #11256
Anh_Minh
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Originally Posted by Frenchie View Post
I wouldn't call not using a gun a 'peaceful' use for it. I don't think there is anything peaceful about a gun, but I guess that's just me.
If you're not using it to shoot at or threaten people, that's peaceful enough for me.



Quote:
You can compare overall crimerates in France and in the US, gun-related or not, rates are higher in the US.
Yes, and my point is that the difference isn't solely attributable to gun laws.
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Old 2011-01-09, 09:37   Link #11257
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
Yes, but if you ban guns, you still have that "culture of violence" problem. Which means that they'll either find ways to get their hands on guns, or find ways to murder people without guns. Plenty of non-peaceful uses for knives, after all. Would gun control laws reduce criminality? Hard to say. Would it even reduce gun availability for the criminal element? In the short term, probably not. There are just too many of the damn things already in circulation.
Agreed. Look through youtube and you can see many an American kids fooling around with bleach crystals and sugar.
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Old 2011-01-09, 10:08   Link #11258
Nosauz
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I don't think guns are the same as a car or a knife, the gun is meant to be able to attack multiple targets in a short amount of time. A car maybe able to kill a bunch of people in a short amount of time but there needs to situations which allow for this, like no debris in between the people and the car, enough space to accelerate the car to a speed to kill the people or injury severly. The size of the car becomes a limiting factor as a weapon in an urban setting, but when something that weighs about 6-7 lbs (pistol) can be carried around semi-automatic which can fire from 12-17 rounds in rapid succession and which projectiles can travel at 100m/s it automatically becomes a weapon to worry about. It's it's efficiency as a tool for killing which is why people are afraid of guns. guns in a well trained assailant or a novice (gifford shooting) can kill many people in a short amount of time with less premeditation (car) or efficiency (knife) you have to move from one target at a time, and once the target realizes he/she can react and running is affective. In the end the gun is a tool, it's power and deadliness is what makes it such a great tool, but to not see the danger a gun can possess is flawed. For the most part gun owners are responsible but to say that guns are equally as dangerous as cars or other weapons in the wanton killings of civilians is a lie.
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Old 2011-01-09, 10:13   Link #11259
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I LOVE the Koreans. News about them often make me laugh harder than those of the ME.

Hackers celebrate North Korea heir's birthday

Quote:
(Reuters) - Hackers have attacked North Korea's official Youtube and Twitter accounts, posting a cartoon showing Kim Jong-il's heir apparent driving a sports car into a crowd of starving countrymen.

The cyber attack on Saturday, believed to be leader-in-waiting Kim Jong-un's birthday, also called for an uprising against the communist nation's ruling dynasty.

The online embarrassment comes at a time when North Korea has called for dialogue with South Korea to defuse tensions aggravated by an exchange of artillery fire and the sinking of a South navy ship last year.

One of the messages posted on the North's official Twitter account said the ailing Kim Jong-il and his son were sworn enemies.

Another called for the removal of Kim Jong-il for hosting drinking parties at his lavish cottage while 3 million countrymen starved to death.

Several people on a South Korean internet forum, Dcinside, claimed responsibility for the attack.

A two-minute spoof posted on the North's official youtube account showed Kim Jong-un running over a group of starving people and a train, laden with birthday gifts for him, derailed after hitting children on the tracks.

The Youtube account is often used by the North to communicate with the outside world.

There was no immediate comment from the North on the cyber attack. The North Korea's official mouthpiece, KCNA news agency, also did not report any public events or festivals to mark Kim Jong-un's birthday.

Very little is known about Kim Jong-un outside North Korea, who is the youngest son of Kim Jong-il.
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Old 2011-01-09, 11:32   Link #11260
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It has been a while (almost four years ago!), and many of its original contributors have since moved on from AnimeSuki but, still, I feel that the guns and gun-control debate should have been moved to the thread where it belongs (I've added "guns" and "gun control" to the tags list; hopefully that would make these posts easier to find in the future).

Most of the key issues had already been thoroughly discussed, rendering many of the recent posts in the past few pages somewhat unnecessary. My opinion today hasn't changed from four years ago: The idea that the solution to gun crimes is to have even more guns is scary at best, and a delusion at worst. I still fail to see how encouraging a civilian arms race would make a country a safer place. But, hey, if Americans like it that way, who am I to argue?

=============

Moving on, an exciting discovery on the scientific front:

HK scientists store complex data in bacteria
Quote:
Hong Kong (Jan 9, Sun): The United States' national archives occupy more than 800km (500 miles) of shelving; France's archives stretch for more than 160km, as do Britain's.

Yet a group of students at Hong Kong's Chinese University is making strides towards storing such vast amounts of information in an unexpected home: the E. coli bacterium better known as a potential source of serious food poisoning.

"This means you will be able to keep large datasets for the long term in a box of bacteria in the refrigerator," said Mr Aldrin Yim, a student instructor on the university's biostorage project.

Biostorage — the art of storing and encrypting information in living organisms — is a young field, having existed for just about a decade. The Hong Kong researchers have developed ways to store complex data in bacteria and have started to overcome practical problems that caused sceptics to see the method as science fiction.

The group has developed a method of compressing data to overcome limits on storage capacity. They are also able to "map" the DNA so that information can be easily located. This opens up the way to storing not only text, but images, music, and even video within cells.

As a storage method it is extremely compact. As each cell is minuscule, the group says that 1g (0.3 ounces) of bacteria could store the same amount of information as 450 2,000GB hard disks.

More importantly, "bacteria can't be hacked", pointed out Mr Allen Yu, another student instructor. He added: "All kinds of computers are vulnerable to electrical failures or data theft. But bacteria are immune to cyber attacks. You can safeguard the information."

The team has even coined a word for this field — biocryptography — and the encoding mechanism contains built-in checks to ensure that mutations in some bacterial cells do not corrupt the data as a whole.

Professor Chan Ting Fung, who supervised the student team, told AFP that practical work in the field — fostered by the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, which helped develop standards enabling researchers to collaborate — was in its early stages.

But he said: "What the students did was to try it out and make sure some of the fundamental principles are actually achievable."

AFP

On a more depressing note, the Chinese again demonstrate how low they would go in the name of greed:

Chinese official suspended over lead poisoning
Quote:
Beijing (Jan 9, Sun): An environmental official in eastern China was suspended after a battery factory sickened more than 200 children with lead poisoning, the authorities said today.

Mr Zhao Yiping, the head of the local environmental protection bureau in Huaining County in Anhui province, was suspended from his duties after tests confirmed that lead emissions from Borui Battery Company had polluted the nearby soil, the county government said in a statement.

It said 228 children out of 307 tested were found to have high levels of lead in their blood. Twenty-three of them were hospitalised and are receiving treatment. The battery plant was forced to halt operations while investigations continue, the statement said.

The plant had failed to pass necessary environmental checks and was asked to close in August, but it later resumed production without notifying the authorities. The factory was across the street from a residential area, despite regulations that battery plants must be at least 500m (1,600 feet) away.

Reports of lead poisoning have emerged from far-flung parts of China since 2009, usually rural areas where large, highly polluting factories have been plunked down among farms at the behest of local governments whose performance assessments are based on their ability to deliver economic growth.

Excessive amounts of lead in the body can harm the nervous and reproductive systems and cause high blood pressure and anaemia. In severe cases, it can lead to convulsions, coma and death.

AP

The above comes after a recent report about Chinese attempting to profit from fake eggs.



China has fake wine, tofu and now... eggs
Quote:
Beijing (Jan 5, Wed): China looks set to start the new year struggling with a food-safety problem that it just cannot seem to overcome.

In one of its latest stings, state broadcaster China Central Television uncovered the process behind the making of fake eggs — a persistent practice that is dangerous because of the chemicals used.

Local media followed up with reports of rampant do-it-yourself DVDs being sold online that provide "lessons" on how to make fake eggs. The disks are sold for 500 yuan (US$75) each. The fake eggs, which are sold as the real thing for anything from 0.5 yuan each, cost only 0.05 yuan to produce, several times cheaper than real ones.

THE STRAITS TIMES
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