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Old 2006-12-11, 19:46   Link #321
Sorrow-K
Somehow I found out
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Age: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deathkillz View Post
no...in fact up to ep 10 so far and there has been no hint of a childhood meeting between the two...i guess she just generally loves him for some unknown reasons (shotacon? lol)...
and ayako isnt called mega~dere for nothing you know likewise mega~tsun *ouch* >.<
That's even worse. They can't leave the reason behind Ayako's crush unexplained, particularly when it's as bizarre as this.
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Old 2006-12-11, 20:38   Link #322
Mentar
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*lol*

You're assuming quite a lot for not even knowing the story ... I mean, more power to you, and I don't want to change your opinion, just correct your flawed assumptions for others who might read the thread, and possibly give you a basis to reconsider. I don't really see you do that, though.

As for the true reason, which can be found out by anyone with more patience:

Spoiler:


Oh, and please let me apologize for the author that Ayako doesn't match your "tsundere" template ... now that's really a crime.
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Old 2006-12-11, 20:54   Link #323
Skyfall
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Well, granted i have only seen 2 episodes of this so far(so don't ask me why am i reading the last page of this thread ), but i can say that i don't share your opinion, Sorrow-K. Now, granted on what i have seen so far the series is comedy first and foremost, and thus some things might as well be left without serious reasoning and explainations. Since when was love reasonable and required logical explainations anyway? She might like him just because... and that's it - no further reasoning is required from her. What appeals to you is not suposed to appeal to her in any way and vice versa. Tho judging from Mentar's spoiler i managed to click and read there is an explaination given, so no complains are in order

As for her not acting like your regualr tsundere...is there any reason she should ? Character X is character X. Ayako is Ayako. She is not suposed to mimic another character/archetype if the aouthor does not wish for it, and it certainly does not make her a worse character in any way imaginable.
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Old 2006-12-11, 21:15   Link #324
Impz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sorrow-K View Post
I know I've only seen one episode, so it's still way too early to judge properly, but the fact that she goes completely head over heels for him on first sight is just way too much to swallow, considering the way she acts towards everyone else. I mean, she wasn't even tsun with him. Tsundere girls are tsun with everyone, but eventually that special someone will crack the dere stage. You don't crack the dere stage 10 seconds into your first meeting. She's like the reverse Suzuka. Obviously I see where this is going: it'll turn out they met some time in the past and, blah blah blah. But this should at least be hinted towards early on, or the entire set up is just completely unbelievable.

The comedy being stupid doesn't help either. I don't mind fun stupid, ala Gokujou Seitokai or Zero no Tsukaima, but this is stupid stupid (think Yamato Nadeshiko or Tsuyokiss).
hmmm, i think it's left slowly considering it's a 24 part series. Actually, it leaves a bit to the imagination until the updated episodes. I mean, if you think that it's bad, give it at least 2-3 episodes. I have watched both Yamato and tsuyokiss and i agree with you that the comedy there is stupid stupid (i stopped laughing after a while) but Mamoru-kun left me in stitches until episode 10.

So give it a try. However, if up at episode 6 (i chose 6 for a reason :P), u are still like *hey this is dumb* then no choice, mamoru-kun the series isn't for you.

I do remember though when I watched episode 1, I thought this is the run of the mill dumb dumb series, but it turned out rather different...later. If you trust my words on this. Ayako = cute.
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Old 2006-12-11, 21:38   Link #325
Sorrow-K
Somehow I found out
 
 
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I never said I was going to drop this. I rarely drop series and when I do, more often than not it's because of what the fansubbers are doing than what the anime itself is doing. I mean, I watched all of Shuffle!. I can watch anything.

Ep 2.

Ok, I read the spoiler and I've watched another episode and my opinion hasn't really changed. Ignore the comedy for a moment, because I think it's really bad. But the gimmick of having Ayako as an extreme-extreme tsundere is trite. The charm of tsundere-ko is that they have that defensive barrier and they exhibit it to all, equally, but then someone comes along and slowly breaks down that barrier with time. The whole point isn't the "dere-dere" stage, it's the journey the characters take to get there, the struggle the male protagonist has to undergo to win the tsundere-ko's heart. In this case, it wasn't any of the attributes or actions of Mamoru that won, Ayako, but his
Spoiler:
That cheapens the whole romance if you ask me, almost as if he's inadvertantly
Spoiler:


Skyfall: Yes, in real life, sometimes people just fall in love at first sight for no reason. But in romance stories, that's... well... boring. It's far more compelling if time is taken to analyze the characters and examine exactly why they love each other. Here, it just feels like the whole point of the magical romance between Mamoru and Ayako is to show her going "dere-dere". It makes the whole tsundere-ism in this case a gimmick, which is sad since I've long been of the opinion that tsundere-ism is more than a gimmick, but an actual type of character development.
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Old 2006-12-11, 21:45   Link #326
Kurogane_Shiroikaze
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Wow, this is funny on how the thread is spiralling in to a weird discussion. For the reason why Ayako intially falls in love with Mamoru, Mentar has already posted what I wanted to say.

But other than the said reasons, I 100% think that Ayako's dere-dere-ness is 100% her own personality and she's not being "controlled" by Mamoru. Is it that hard to believe in love on first sight? As I said earlier, wait till episode 3 and watch that first before passing judgement on Mamoru. I initially didn't like him too, untill episode 3 came and reversed that opinion.

Or, if you don't mind getting spoiled, here's my summary on the third episode.
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Old 2006-12-11, 21:57   Link #327
Sorrow-K
Somehow I found out
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurogane_Shiroikaze View Post
Wow, this is funny on how the thread is spiralling in to a weird discussion. For the reason why Ayako intially falls in love with Mamoru, Mentar has already posted what I wanted to say.

But other than the said reasons, I 100% think that Ayako's dere-dere-ness is 100% her own personality and she's not being "controlled" by Mamoru. Is it that hard to believe in love on first sight? As I said earlier, wait till episode 3 and watch that first before passing judgement on Mamoru. I initially didn't like him too, untill episode 3 came and reversed that opinion.

Or, if you don't mind getting spoiled, here's my summary on the third episode.
Spoiler:
The alternative is that the reason why she likes him is "just 'coz", which I just can't swallow.
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Old 2006-12-11, 22:16   Link #328
NaweG
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To quote Robert Heinlein:

All men and women are the same height when they're lying down.

Besides, he treats her so nicely, and humanly (rather than as an experiment or someone to be controlled) when they first meet that I'm not surprised that she would be attracted to that.

Besides, consider the alternative. Basketball star falls in love with miniature cheerleader (and yes, we had some theories why that would work back in high school.. ahem). That wouldn't seem strange. So...

Oh well, bring on episode 3 and let's see if it gets any clearer!
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Old 2006-12-12, 00:35   Link #329
Kurogane_Shiroikaze
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sorrow-K View Post
Spoiler:
The alternative is that the reason why she likes him is "just 'coz", which I just can't swallow.
Spoiler:
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Old 2006-12-12, 01:45   Link #330
Kaoru Chujo
Yuuki Aoi
 
 
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Remember that in episode 1, he looked at her and the sakura and said how pretty they were, and just treated her as a normal, beautiful person when he first saw her. She probably hadn't gotten much of that in her life. And I think she probably subconsciously sensed the beatrice, too. In any case, even the biggest and strongest of men are puny weaklings to her, so he isn't that much different. And he has an irresistibly nice smile.
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Old 2006-12-12, 01:54   Link #331
Guardian Enzo
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Join Date: Dec 2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo View Post
Remember that in episode 1, he looked at her and the sakura and said how pretty they were, and just treated her as a normal, beautiful person when he first saw her. She probably hadn't gotten much of that in her life. And I think she probably subconsciously sensed the beatrice, too. In any case, even the biggest anjd strongest of men are puny weaklings to her, so he isn't that much different. And he has an irresistibly nice smile.
That pretty much sums up my view when I saw it.
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Old 2006-12-12, 02:07   Link #332
Deathkillz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo View Post
Remember that in episode 1, he looked at her and the sakura and said how pretty they were, and just treated her as a normal, beautiful person when he first saw her. She probably hadn't gotten much of that in her life. And I think she probably subconsciously sensed the beatrice, too. In any case, even the biggest and strongest of men are puny weaklings to her, so he isn't that much different. And he has an irresistibly nice smile.
yep and it sounds like sayuri from tokimeki as well ~ i guess its just the ordinary which tends attracts the inordinary so to speak
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Old 2006-12-12, 03:53   Link #333
Mentar
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My last note on this issue, before I leave Sorrow-K to his sorrows.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sorrow-K View Post
Ok, I read the spoiler and I've watched another episode and my opinion hasn't really changed. Ignore the comedy for a moment, because I think it's really bad.
I disagree, I have alot of fun. But then you didn't like the comedy in Yamato Nadeshiko either. Simple case of personal preference, I guess.

Quote:
But the gimmick of having Ayako as an extreme-extreme tsundere is trite. The charm of tsundere-ko is that they have that defensive barrier and they exhibit it to all, equally, but then someone comes along and slowly breaks down that barrier with time.
That's another clear case of the old "the anime doesn't do things the way I want them to, so it sucks" trap in which you've fallen. In general, you're right of course, that's the basic "tsundere" template. But this anime isn't an entry in a "most typical tsundere ever" contest, it's an independent piece of work. The creators are very aware of that too, see their description of "Megadere", which properly names her behavior towards Mamoru

Therefore - at least for me - the charm of this show is not the chipping away of the defenses of the icy female bishoujo by the male lead, but rather watching and enjoying the extreme disconnect between her behavior towards him compared to the rest of the world. Gradually learning what warped Ayako like this. And on the other hand, how Mamoru grapples with the obvious mismatch between him and her, and how he (and his family, see later) are going to overcome this. And last but not least of course, this is a dream material for lonely souls who would just LOVE to be a Mamoru too, having a gorgeous, sweet, smart, rich and yet unpretentious ojousama head over heels for them ^_^

That's what the show is about. It's okay if it doesn't suit your personal tastes, but that doesn't make it a bad anime by any means. In fact, I give it alot of credit for taking the old tsundere template and giving it a NEW twist (splitting the Tsun for the rest of the world and (Mega)Dere for the male lead), exploring the possibilities. In my book, that's called "original".

Quote:
The whole point isn't the "dere-dere" stage, it's the journey the characters take to get there, the struggle the male protagonist has to undergo to win the tsundere-ko's heart. In this case, it wasn't any of the attributes or actions of Mamoru that won, Ayako, but his
Spoiler:
That cheapens the whole romance if you ask me, almost as if he's inadvertantly
Spoiler:
Now, now. You demanded an explanation why someone like Ayako would fall for someone like Mamoru within 10 seconds, and decreed that it was BS. To which I replied that actually, there was even a logical reason for her extreme reaction which the story explains later. I didn't say that this was the only reason. Just like others have said before, there's more to Mamoru than just that, especially his genuine sweetness in dealing with her (who we're still going to learn has had a particularly ugly childhood). We can appreciate his struggles, because he knows that their linkup seems absurd. But that's one of the points of these show. Or, as a programmer would say, "It's no bug, it's a feature".

As a closing word, initially I'd find myself in stitches every time Ayako loses it and goes on a rampage. And I absolutely savor her Megadere side aswell. In the early stages, she's the clear star and stealing the limelight. With progressing time, the focus shifts back on Mamoru who gradually proves to be more than just a cute stuffed doll. And in the later episodes, especially with the introduction of Emerenzia, I can see the good-natured silly comedy shift into something slightly more serious.

I'll certainly stay aboard ^_^
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Old 2006-12-12, 12:25   Link #334
Conan-san
Cruel Angel's Thesis
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
If you didn't laugh at "Shione! Please put [the impeeding window incident] under repears!" then you are souless.
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Old 2006-12-15, 19:20   Link #335
ThoHell
Senior Member
 
 
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No way you can have a guy who is going out with someone be a dense as Mamoru was in ep 11. Makes me want to smack him around a bit. COME ON NOW, how can he not notice that she's trying to hit on him? ARG.....next episode needs to hurry and come out soon, so there is some resolution so I can cool off ~_~
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Old 2006-12-15, 22:19   Link #336
Maids! Maids! Maids!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mentar View Post
As a closing word, initially I'd find myself in stitches every time Ayako loses it and goes on a rampage. And I absolutely savor her Megadere side aswell. In the early stages, she's the clear star and stealing the limelight. With progressing time, the focus shifts back on Mamoru who gradually proves to be more than just a cute stuffed doll. And in the later episodes, especially with the introduction of Emerenzia, I can see the good-natured silly comedy shift into something slightly more serious.

I'll certainly stay aboard ^_^
Agreed. There's something very refreshing about a drop-dead gorgeous, superhuman tsundere who is kind, gentle, and loving to her boyfriend and kicks the snot out of her annoying, busybody friends on a fairly routine basis. It's downright cathartic.

And along with my worthless opinion, I'm going to post another image of Ayako in that nice pink bikini. It was split into two images, but I asked anonymous on 4chan to join them. He said he could have done a better job if he worked on it longer, and it is a little rough, but it's a lot better than it was. My thanks to anonymous, whoever you are.

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Old 2006-12-15, 22:31   Link #337
Catgirls
I am mowing clowns
 
 
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Two avatars from Ep 1 & 2.

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Old 2006-12-16, 01:39   Link #338
NoSanninWa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maids! Maids! Maids! View Post
Agreed. There's something very refreshing about a drop-dead gorgeous, superhuman tsundere who is kind, gentle, and loving to her boyfriend and kicks the snot out of her annoying, busybody friends on a fairly routine basis. It's downright cathartic.
Heck, I'm just glad to see a girl who beats up people other than her boyfriend. I'm so used to seeing the boyfriend get the worst side of the girl's fists that it is a breath of fresh air to see a girl act like she actually likes the boy. What a concept!
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Old 2006-12-16, 01:44   Link #339
RaistlinMajere
Now in MHD!
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I dunno man, it's kind of extreme the other way now. It's the opposite of Love Hina. We need some happy medium.
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Old 2006-12-16, 01:58   Link #340
Kaioshin Sama
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I had a Nanny Beatrice. How's that for off-topic. Still got it.

Whoa a series that seems to have some decent animation for once, but is it consistent? Haha Non Sequiters.

Also the main character scares the crap out of me already even though I've never seen the show. She looks really dangerous to be around for any length of time.
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