Hyouka - Episode 22 [END] Discussion / Poll

[bastek66]

Alternate ending, dont forget turn subs on.

YouTube

https://youtu.be/YXSDIXLmDYg

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

[Bahamut]

...hey...its tai*** and hi**ko reincarnated...

[supermegasonic]

dat ending, wasn't expecting it, and even more surprised is that that is actually something he wanted to say. remember in the beginning when he didnt give a crap??

[mylifeforaiur]

was browsing KyoAni's official site for Hyouka (http://www.kyotoanimation.co.jp/kotenbu/interview/) and found the following line in one of Futoshi Nishiya's comments for Episode 22:

Spoiler for Japanese text:

物語の後半になるにつれ、奉太郎とえる、お互いが意識し合うようになり、なんともむずがゆく照れ照れしなが ら作業していました。

For those who can understand Japanese, is my translation correct that he was very embarrassed while working on the 2nd half where Eru and Houtaro have come to understand each other?

[Rakshasa]

Originally Posted by mylifeforaiur

was browsing KyoAni's official site for Hyouka (http://www.kyotoanimation.co.jp/kotenbu/interview/) and found the following line in one of Futoshi Nishiya's comments for Episode 22:

Spoiler for Japanese text:

物語の後半になるにつれ、奉太郎とえる、お互いが意識し合うようになり、なんともむずがゆく照れ照れしなが ら作業していました。

For those who can understand Japanese, is my translation correct that he was very embarrassed while working on the 2nd half where Eru and Houtaro have come to understand each other?

More correctly; that they became aware the other was aware.

[Solafighter]

Originally Posted by bastek66

Alternate ending, dont forget turn subs on.

YouTube

https://youtu.be/YXSDIXLmDYg

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

Best.Ending.Ever.

[Kaoru Chujo]

I'm not fluent, but my translation wouldn't be that he became "very embarrassed," more that he felt the same awkward bashfulness they did. And that's more or less what I felt, too. They were so irresistibly attracted to each other, but were embarrassed about it, and were always feeling the awkward approach/avoidance of innocent romantic feelings. The "itchiness" in the quote feels to me like the way those feelings just hover beneath the surface, making them uneasy.

[rulfo]

I wonder what would it feel like to be in one of the staff members shoes when they read the part of the script where Oreki never said those words.

Literally that part made me scream in disbelief.

[Rakshasa]

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

I'm not fluent, but my translation wouldn't be that he became "very embarrassed," more that he felt the same awkward bashfulness they did. And that's more or less what I felt, too. They were so irresistibly attracted to each other, but were embarrassed about it, and were always feeling the awkward approach/avoidance of innocent romantic feelings. The "itchiness" in the quote feels to me like the way those feelings just hover beneath the surface, making them uneasy.

There is no reference to how the two felt, only how he felt when writing about the situation.

Also embarrassed is a perfectly reasonable translation, since this was an internal emotion rather than description of how someone acts.

[Kaoru Chujo]

Originally Posted by Rakshasa

There is no reference to how the two felt, only how he felt when writing about the situation. Also embarrassed is a perfectly reasonable translation, since this was an internal emotion rather than description of how someone acts.

He didn't have to refer to the two directly since he was describing their bashful teretere kind of embarrassment, not the hazukashii kind of ashamed embarrassment. They may be the same in an English dictionary, but my impression is that the Japanese words do not refer to the same emotions.

I felt as if the English "very embarrassed" might give the wrong impression to an English-speaker reading it. It seemed to me that the writer was implying a feeling of bashfulness in sympathy with our two heroes, not personal embarrassment. The use of the word "embarrassed" might imply to an English reader that he was ashamed of what he was doing, and I didn't think that was what he meant. 1. Am I making myself clear? 2. Might this make sense?

[Aquifina]

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

He didn't have to refer to the two directly since he was describing their bashful teretere kind of embarrassment, not the hazukashii kind of ashamed embarrassment. They may be the same in an English dictionary, but my impression is that the Japanese words do not refer to the same emotions.

I felt as if the English "very embarrassed" might give the wrong impression to an English-speaker reading it. It seemed to me that the writer was implying a feeling of bashfulness in sympathy with our two heroes, not personal embarrassment. The use of the word "embarrassed" might imply to an English reader that he was ashamed of what he was doing, and I didn't think that was what he meant. 1. Am I making myself clear? 2. Might this make sense?

I don't read Japanese, but I think I get the drift of the distinction you're making.

[Zeriand]

One of the most beautiful ending I've ever seen yet, and probably the only anime I've seen so far that outdid its original light novel. That alone is an amazing achievement.

[Forsaken_Infinity]

Originally Posted by Zeriand

One of the most beautiful ending I've ever seen yet, and probably the only anime I've seen so far that outdid its original light novel. That alone is an amazing achievement.

It didn't adapt a light novel and friends who have read the novel tell me it did an A-okay job adapting the novel but I wouldn't know if that means that it surpassed the novel or that it was decent. People go in with such low expectations when it comes to anime adaptations that the adaptation doesn't really have to surpass or even match the original for it to impress them. Most of the time, those who have read the source just want to see the characters in motion ._.

But that doesn't take away anything from Hyouka the anime and as an anime-only viewer, I was thoroughly entertained all the way through.

[Hyper]

Originally Posted by Forsaken_Infinity

It didn't adapt a light novel and friends who have read the novel tell me it did an A-okay job adapting the novel but I wouldn't know if that means that it surpassed the novel or that it was decent. People go in with such low expectations when it comes to anime adaptations that the adaptation doesn't really have to surpass or even match the original for it to impress them. Most of the time, those who have read the source just want to see the characters in motion ._.

But that doesn't take away anything from Hyouka the anime and as an anime-only viewer, I was thoroughly entertained all the way through.

Yeah. I personally think that "just want to see it in motion" mentality is bad. All too often the manga/light novel/novel just got "animated" but not "adapted". I've only read the translated volumes of Hyouka (1-2) and I think the staff did a pretty good job adapting it. It's not only the matter of better or worse but knowing how to use the advantage of the medium. For example, in the novel the author can make an explanation longer with little to no impact on the reader, while an anime viewer will be bored by the same amount of text. On the other hand, we can see all the body languages in the anime. They really took advantage of that in Hyouka.

[Zeriand]

It's not just bad, it's very bad. The practice has come to poison viewers that a lot of them can't even differentiate whether an anime is good or bad. My favorite scene is animated = insta 10/10, while totally ignoring that the fact that it was animated horribly and had projected none of the feelings that should've been there.

In fact, most episodes of current running series such as Muv Luv Total Eclipse and SAO are exactly like that - though SAO did not have budget issues and thus is a lot more watchable - but if we compare them to Hyouka, they didn't even come close in terms of pure quality.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Zeriand

It's not just bad, it's very bad. The practice has come to poison viewers that a lot of them can't even differentiate whether an anime is good or bad. My favorite scene is animated = insta 10/10, while totally ignoring that the fact that it was animated horribly and had projected none of the feelings that should've been there.

Actually (and not to take this too far off-topic)... there may be some people that are like that, but I've found that there are just as many (if not more) who complain endlessly whenever the anime makes the slightest deviation from the source material, whether or not there might have been a good reason for the modification. So I think it sort of goes both ways. Your source material fans can be your biggest cheerleaders, but also your biggest critics. (And in both of those cases, objectivity is somewhat in question... )

With this franchise, we didn't get a lot of that either way because the franchise was generally unknown (in English circles, particularly), and you're working with a very highly-regarded staff who are unlikely to be doubted.

[Hyper]

To go back on Hyouka, this conversation remind me about the first instant Hyouka caught my attention (aside of KyoAni doing it, admittedly). It was Yonezawa-san comments to the anime and the fan here. I couldn't pin it down at the time, but now I think what caught my attention was he didn't say the usual "I'm glad to see them moving" but "When Oreki and the others, who only existed on paper, finally take shape and begin to move, I wonder how the feel of their tale will change." It showed that he and the staff really focus on adapting rather than just animating the story.

I think the "animating" part is mechanical. Anyone with enough money can make high quality animations. The art of an anime lies on how to "adapt" the source material (if there is one). What can be kept or discarded. Which scene can be enhanced by the pictures and which scene has to be modified because it doesn't fit the anime format, and so on. I think Yonezawa-san comment was on the spot. The moment his work became an anime, it has already changed. What needs to be done is taking advantage of that. While I have not read the novel on this one, I think this last episode is a good example. The pink hue, the gust of wind, the music, and the falling sakura really enhanced that last scene.

(See, I finally get back on the topic )

[Aquifina]

Originally Posted by Hyper

To go back on Hyouka, this conversation remind me about the first instant Hyouka caught my attention (aside of KyoAni doing it, admittedly). It was Yonezawa-san comments to the anime and the fan here. I couldn't pin it down at the time, but now I think what caught my attention was he didn't say the usual "I'm glad to see them moving" but "When Oreki and the others, who only existed on paper, finally take shape and begin to move, I wonder how the feel of their tale will change." It showed that he and the staff really focus on adapting rather than just animating the story.

I think the "animating" part is mechanical. Anyone with enough money can make high quality animations. The art of an anime lies on how to "adapt" the source material (if there is one). What can be kept or discarded. Which scene can be enhanced by the pictures and which scene has to be modified because it doesn't fit the anime format, and so on. I think Yonezawa-san comment was on the spot. The moment his work became an anime, it has already changed. What needs to be done is taking advantage of that. While I have not read the novel on this one, I think this last episode is a good example. The pink hue, the gust of wind, the music, and the falling sakura really enhanced that last scene.

(See, I finally get back on the topic )

I totally agree with this point--I've read a chunk of the novels translated into english, and while there are a few places where I prefer it to the anime, the anime truly does take advantage of the visual medium to evoke emotions in a way that's awfully hard to do in print--especially when translated from Japanese to English. I haven't read the novel equivalent of ep. 22, but it's very much my impression that the visuals you cite are things distinctive to the anime adaptation.

[Ruby Princess]

What elements of the novels do you prefer to the anime, Aquifina-kun?

[Aquifina]

Originally Posted by Ruby Princess

What elements of the novels do you prefer to the anime, Aquifina-kun?

I don't want to push this thread too far off-topic, so my reply is here.