Kyoukai Senjou no Horizon - Episode 9 Discussion / Poll

[Einst]

Originally Posted by Morisato

ALL HAIL TOORI. Good episode.

Did Kimi actually shove a whole pepper shaker in Toori's mouth? That looked pretty brutal...

Not to mention she also shove in a tabasco and other things too

[Znail]

Originally Posted by MorningGlory

sound like Psychological battle...So does that mean Futayo lose simply because she is mentally weak ?

It's more spiritual, although not about personal spirit at all. It's all about the worth of the sacrifice to the god each person worship. Swinging your weapon around isn't that difficult or valuable perhaps.

Spoiler for more specifics:

I would guess that Futayo worships a god of battle, so she may be able to increase the worth of her sacrifice by swinging the weapon skilfully or landing good hits on an opponent. This would obviously be easier in a normal battle then against someone elusive like Kimi.

We also saw Asama use the option of sacrificing future service to her god in episode 1. I would assume that this is not something anyone can do in unlimited amount as the god have to trust in that you will deliver. It may be something related to her god or that she is an actual priestess (miko).

But it does seem like a lot depends on if your god has an interest in something valuable that you can provide. Kimi's god of erotic dancing is rather good for her as she can both dance skilfully and also undress to increase the erotic part. As a sacrifice dedicated to a god so would I consider that more valuable then simply swinging a weapon around.

But there are even more easy to please gods as we saw Shirojiro as a worshipper of the god of commerce and is thus only limited in the amount of money he wants to sacrifice to gain power. OF course, he spends basically all his time working on his wealth and someone who didn't have that wealth wouldn't have the money to sacrifice as easily. So one could consider his constant work on getting more money as dedicated to his god and thus saving up in future favours.

[Cosmic Eagle]

Originally Posted by Brimstone

It's the Remorse song that Horizon always sing, Techno Remix ver.

Like the original....I swear, this needs a longer version. Or at least one clearer....EUROBEAT FTW MAN...

[Kunagisa]

Originally Posted by Duo Maxwell

Kimi has always been, and will always be my favorite onee-chan.

Best sibling this entire year. Also, I still can't get over how cute Uzzy is~~.


As for Uzume, I think you guys should read this wiki entry.

She famously relates to the tale of the missing sun deity, Amaterasu Omikami.
...
She is depicted in kyogen farce as Okame, a woman who revels in her sensuality

You can read about Amaterasu's tale in that link there too. Considering Kimi brought Toori back, anyone seeing the parallel I'm seeing here? If that's the case, Toori's contracted god is (〜￣▽￣)〜 〜(￣▽￣〜).

Originally Posted by Panzerklein

About Toori and Horizon's titles are given by Yoshinao, what mean in Japanese? Because the english-sub "Viceroy" in Vietnamese have two mean "vice-king/emperor" or "governor of all military provinces" :/ .

This why I think TAN is doing a crazy amazing job for this series. It means both.

Refer to this picture (click for the entire thing)

See how Toori's overlapped in pink and green? He's the leader of both the "military council" (green) and the "political council" (pink). He's both the emperor and commander-in-chief so to speak. They kinda explained this too but I couldn't find the episode at the moment (Sorry~). So both of your interpretations are correct!! Jackie McClure FTW!!!

Originally Posted by ars89

Kimi was beyond awesome. Touching part when they showed the siblings past. Nice job by the king to side with them. Looks like the mission starts now to get Horizon back.

YES! MR BURGER KING IS A VERY GOOD PERSON. His scenes are very touching in the novel. They were able to replicate most of the emotions in the episode despite the breakneck pacing they're going at still. I'm so glad he didn't stay a joke character. Dude has a lot of weight on his shoulder. I think Sunrise is brilliant can give such good characterization with such limited scripting. I'm very much in love with this new script writer for this episode.

Finally, next episode preview!

http://vlog.xuite.net/play/OVJ5S0FoLTQwMzE4NDkuZmx2

PS: Anyway, scene to remember for future episode!

[articuzwolf]

if i'm not mistaken, did toori just appoint Honda (Futayo) as Vice Chancellor in the end of the episode?

I thought it was Honda (Masazumi)'s position

[Kunagisa]

Originally Posted by articuzwolf

if i'm not mistaken, did toori just appoint Honda (Futayo) as Vice Chancellor in the end of the episode?

I thought it was Honda (Masazumi)'s position

Nah, that was a previously empty position (referring back to older charts).

Masazumi forever political side.
Futayo forever military side.

This brings up something fun~.

Motonobu previously had both of the Hondas working under him, and he was supposed to be the Tokugawa Ieyasu.

Tokugawa Ieyasu ... Originally named Matsudaira Takechiyo ... changed his name to Matsudaira Jirōsaburō Motonobu ... married his first wife and changed his name again to Matsudaira Kurandonosuke Motoyasu ... Motoyasu changed his name yet again, his new family name was Tokugawa and his given name was now Ieyasu.

Obviously this part isn't true anymore, but guess now who has both Hondas working under him as well (and he's paired up with the only child of Motonobu ). See how everything's coming together!?!?!

[Icy.Tear]

Originally Posted by stuopidget

You can read about Amaterasu's tale in that link there too. Considering Kimi brought Toori back, anyone seeing the parallel I'm seeing here? If that's the case, Toori's contracted god is (〜￣▽￣)〜 〜(￣▽￣〜).

Perhaps metaphorically, but when you look at the story, Toori appears to worship:

Spoiler for Speculation on Toori's God:

Ame no Uzume no Mikoto too.

The actual Amaterasu story was mentioned in the novel.

Spoiler for Volume 1: Already covered in anime, although this was cut.:

"--When Amaterasu was hiding within a rock door, the laughter which the Goddesses dancing outside were raising passed through the rock door and was conveyed to Amaterasu, and it became an opportunity to pull Amaterasu out. In short, the technique of the God of Entertainment is a technique which uses emotion as a medium, able to propagate something for the sake of sharing. As if sharing laughs among everyone through dance."

However,

"For this technique, an equivalent compensation is appended as uncleanliness. In the case of using laughter as a medium, sadness cannot be held, if in the case that that is violated--the power which was propagated using laughter as a medium will conversely be taken away."

"Taken away...which means?"

"The transmitted power will not be shared, it will be thoroughly stolen away. Luck and emotion, even power, it depends on the contents of the contract, but it will most likely be exorcised as uncleanliness, and it will not return for a long period of time. That entertainers and artists that have become unable to sell sink psychologically is because, failing in their works of art, the emotions of joy and laughter are lost from within themselves."

[blewin]

that scene with Kimi and Toori (childhood) is kind of a shock... I didn't realise how violent and crazy Kimi is.... exaggerated characters (Toori included). Put them together and with the hand of a brillian writer, you get a great show.

and so finally we get to see the real thing. Kind of slow for a build up to take 9 episodes, but they are all necessary for this. If only the series is longer.

[Kusa-San]

Dmanit, another great episode !! Serioulsy, it's becoming the best serie of the season ! The end was so badass with everyone following Toori

Kimi fight was great too !


How many episode do we have for this season ? 26 ? And it will most likely cover the first volume ?

[jeroz]

Originally Posted by MorningGlory

sound like Psychological battle...So does that mean Futayo lose simply because she is mentally weak ?

more like she got outfarmed in that match.

Originally Posted by Kusa-San

How many episode do we have for this season ? 26 ? And it will most likely cover the first volume ?

4 eps to cover the remaining 250 pages. I'll say that's enough.

Seriously I just can't wait for the second season next year.

Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle

Like the original....I swear, this needs a longer version. Or at least one clearer....EROBEAT FTW MAN...

FTFY

[Wandering_Youth]

Can someone please explain to me why Futayo's spear reflection attack couldn't cut Kimi. Commie's subs didn't make it all that clear.

It sounds like the power of the spear is affected by the user's soul, conviction, determination etc.

[Marcus H.]

The power of the spear does affect the effectiveness of the Tonbokiri's ability, but you also have to consider that Kimi never gave Futayo her real name, and with the dozens of fake names Kimi regards as a "true" name, Futayo could only try and hack her way through the fake names in Kimi's arsenal.

[djmaca]

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^

from futyo's reaction it could work on a woman too.

She's the follower of the god eroticism and dance. It might be because it works both ways. Gender is not a problem.

[Zavie]

Originally Posted by Icy.Tear

Spoiler for Volume 1: Already covered in anime, although this was cut.:

"--When Amaterasu was hiding within a rock door, the laughter which the Goddesses dancing outside were raising passed through the rock door and was conveyed to Amaterasu, and it became an opportunity to pull Amaterasu out. In short, the technique of the God of Entertainment is a technique which uses emotion as a medium, able to propagate something for the sake of sharing. As if sharing laughs among everyone through dance."

However,

"For this technique, an equivalent compensation is appended as uncleanliness. In the case of using laughter as a medium, sadness cannot be held, if in the case that that is violated--the power which was propagated using laughter as a medium will conversely be taken away."

"Taken away...which means?"

"The transmitted power will not be shared, it will be thoroughly stolen away. Luck and emotion, even power, it depends on the contents of the contract, but it will most likely be exorcised as uncleanliness, and it will not return for a long period of time. That entertainers and artists that have become unable to sell sink psychologically is because, failing in their works of art, the emotions of joy and laughter are lost from within themselves."

Is this the reason why Asama mentioned that Kimi cannot feel sadness while Toori is around hence she cannot lose against Futayo?

Or rather, Kimi is not allowed to feel sad/hurt/disturbed if she want to do this Summit Dance? (Hence Asama said Kimi wont cry a second time after crying for Toori)

[kemal_1915]

Originally Posted by MorningGlory

sound like Psychological battle...So does that mean Futayo lose simply because she is mentally weak ?

For the battle of both Shinto ability users, it is the matter of one question - "Who have better technique to please their god?"
Kimi can do better than Futayo but the difference is not that larger
She can try harder but she decides to give up
Kimi said this is Futayo's second mistake

Originally Posted by Wandering_Youth

Can someone please explain to me why Futayo's spear reflection attack couldn't cut Kimi. Commie's subs didn't make it all that clear.

It sounds like the power of the spear is affected by the user's soul, conviction, determination etc.

Tonbokiri's ability:
Normal Drive: binding the name which reflected on its blade then cut the target with the name
Superior Drive: doesn't need binding and cut the particular phenomena (concept)

So, Kimi has a lot of names and she doesn't think any of them can represent herself
the Normal Drive can't bind "Kimi" and Kimi properly and fail the cutting

[djmaca]

Originally Posted by kemal_1915

So, Kimi has a lot of names and she doesn't think any of them can represent herself
the Normal Drive can bind "Kimi" and Kimi properly and fail the cutting

You mean to say, since Kimi feels like her name, "Kimi", can't represent herself, the normal drive failed to bind Kimi to her name.

Sorry, your grammar is off, I can't understand it.

[Azuma Denton]

CHIWA SAITO !!!

What a splendid performance by Kimi~nee...

[kemal_1915]

Originally Posted by djmaca

You mean to say, since Kimi feels like her name, "Kimi", can't represent herself, the normal drive failed to bind Kimi to her name.

Sorry, your grammar is off, I can't understand it.

Sorry, a typo
and yes
Kimi changes her name frequently (like clothing)
Azuma (is it Azuma?) said about this in ep 1
so Tonbokiri failed

[Brimstone]

Originally Posted by kemal_1915

Sorry, a typo
and yes
Kimi changes her name frequently (like clothing)
Azuma (is it Azuma?) said about this in ep 1
so Tonbokiri failed

Well it was implied during her conversation (more like a shakedown) with the Winged Girls.

[lightsenshi]

*scratches head* So this person who's spent years, probably decades, acquiring political power tamely hands it over to a teenager who's widely regarded as a moron because he asks?

WHAT!?!

As much as I hate abandoning a storyline in the middle, the past couple of episodes are just a bit too much of the plot hammer overriding what should be obvious.