Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi

[erneiz_hyde]

She "correctly" guessed he would oppose her plan because he didn't know what her plan in the first place. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy. One can argue that Poe was acting childish or rash or whatever for doing what he did, but the fact remained that he was doing it out of the perceived notion that Haldo was going to give up trying. If Haldo knew Poe would act this reckless when put out of the loop then failing to prevent that is a failure on her part. But indeed, she let him be anyway maybe because she saw this as an opportunity for Poe to learn how to be a better leader. I'm guessing this is the part that people see as "scolding parent". If she was the strict military officer, Poe would receive much much heavier penalties and the coup in the bridge would be impossible to happen in the first place.

[Akito Kinomoto]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

The Old Rebel Alliance worked on a cell structure in an effort to protect both those above and below any individual cell. The Resistance has similar workings by default.

Poe had just caused the unnessicary deaths of his squadron hunting down a Dreadnaught (which didn't need to be killed right then). He was demoted and placed outside the need to know by Leia as an effort to get him to learn how to be a better leader. Haldo recognized Poe's type from experiance and correctly guesed that he would oppose her plan, violently. What she didn't take into account was that Finn might break out, and when she found out she was against the plan because it was even more of a long shot than what she was doing. That the fleet jumped there before the First Order was even actively known to be chasing them must means that out of the way outposts like this are almost standard fleet procedure. A place within a day or so at sublight speeds just in case there is a hyperspace problem or an Imperial fleet in tow.

The issue is that she had to have known that an ostensibly standard retreat was not an option due to the First Order tracking them in the first place. Had DJ not sabotaged Finn and Rose, they would have made a clean escape and wouldn't have to lose one of their high ranking officers committing suicide for a distraction. Back to Poe for a minute, her assumptions on his behavior wouldn't have been falsified if she actually told him directly what her plan was, because it was her insistence on secrecy combined with the danger of the First Order shooting and chasing them all down--kamikaze or not--when he found out what the plan was, that he felt she was actually a traitor. Yes, the tracking jamming gambit was a big risk, but I'd say trying to split up and throwing one person as a rush-in divergence at one marksman means nothing when there's several other gunman ready to go, is much riskier than trying to temporarily blind them before they even knew they left or even what direction they went in

As for the scolding parent part, it's also the way the Laura Dern portrayed Holdo with every inflection and expression coming across as a mother and not a high-ranking military officer that further exacerbates this. Under a more militaristic acting performance her entire plan would've still been untenable but at least come across as misguided or something she's forced into, but due to the disconnect between what she portrays and what she's supposed to be, it stacks with the untenable plan and crosses from tragic to plain incompetent, which just made her character insufferable

[Magin]

While the rest of you are discussing whether Poe was right or Holdo was right (and for the record, I didn't like her character myself- I'm on the same page as those who say Admiral Ackbar should've stayed alive, but, y'know, Star Wars is becoming Disney-fied), this was my simple question: how was Poe even in the position to question Holdo to her face anyways? Not only did he get demoted, it was made quite explicit that Holdo had her own circle of higher-ups which Poe was obviously NOT part of, and the fact that he basically kept going straight to the top of command was a little "waitasec... shouldn't there be guards preventing him?"

[Endscape]

Originally Posted by erneiz_hyde

She "correctly" guessed he would oppose her plan because he didn't know what her plan in the first place. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy. One can argue that Poe was acting childish or rash or whatever for doing what he did, but the fact remained that he was doing it out of the perceived notion that Haldo was going to give up trying. If Haldo knew Poe would act this reckless when put out of the loop then failing to prevent that is a failure on her part. But indeed, she let him be anyway maybe because she saw this as an opportunity for Poe to learn how to be a better leader. I'm guessing this is the part that people see as "scolding parent". If she was the strict military officer, Poe would receive much much heavier penalties and the coup in the bridge would be impossible to happen in the first place.

Should she have arrested Poe for something he hadn’t done then? Honestly I doubt Poe was much on her mind, she was probably more concerned with saving the Resistance.

Originally Posted by Akuma Kousaka

The issue is that she had to have known that an ostensibly standard retreat was not an option due to the First Order tracking them in the first place.

IIRC, didn’t she tell Poe she had a plan after they knew they were being tracked?

Had DJ not sabotaged Finn and Rose, they would have made a clean escape and wouldn't have to lose one of their high ranking officers committing suicide for a distraction.

You’re continually avoiding the fact that neither Finn nor Rose should have been there in the first place; Poe had no right to send them there.

As for the scolding parent part, it's also the way the Laura Dern portrayed Holdo with every inflection and expression coming across as a mother and not a high-ranking military officer that further exacerbates this.

?

How exactly should a military officer act then?

Under a more militaristic acting performance her entire plan would've still been untenable but at least come across as misguided or something she's forced into, but due to the disconnect between what she portrays and what she's supposed to be, it stacks with the untenable plan and crosses from tragic to plain incompetent, which just made her character insufferable

The plan was fine, all things considered. Poe was the problem. Which was the whole point of the thing.

Stories usually act like the protagonist has the right to know everything, the handsome rogue you meeet in a sketchy place has a heart of gold, cockamamie plans always work and superior officers are idiots. Well sometimes, the protagonist doesn’t get to know everything, the handsome rogue is an asshole, the cockamamie plan fails and a superior officer isn’t an idiot.

Originally Posted by Magin

While the rest of you are discussing whether Poe was right or Holdo was right (and for the record, I didn't like her character myself- I'm on the same page as those who say Admiral Ackbar should've stayed alive, but, y'know, Star Wars is becoming Disney-fied), this was my simple question: how was Poe even in the position to question Holdo to her face anyways? Not only did he get demoted, it was made quite explicit that Holdo had her own circle of higher-ups which Poe was obviously NOT part of, and the fact that he basically kept going straight to the top of command was a little "waitasec... shouldn't there be guards preventing him?"

Eh, the guards probably knew the guy and didn’t bother stopping him.

[Akito Kinomoto]

Originally Posted by Endscape

IIRC, didn’t she tell Poe she had a plan after they knew they were being tracked?

You’re continually avoiding the fact that neither Finn nor Rose should have been there in the first place; Poe had no right to send them there.

?

How exactly should a military officer act then?

The plan was fine, all things considered. Poe was the problem. Which was the whole point of the thing.

Stories usually act like the protagonist has the right to know everything, the handsome rogue you meeet in a sketchy place has a heart of gold, cockamamie plans always work and superior officers are idiots. Well sometimes, the protagonist doesn’t get to know everything, the handsome rogue is an asshole, the cockamamie plan fails and a superior officer isn’t an idiot.

Assuming you're discussing this in good faith, I would suggest rereading what I've said since you initiated this conversation; comprehension is not above you, due to the exclusions of my words you've made with quoting my posts when responding to them

[Endscape]

Originally Posted by Akuma Kousaka

Assuming you're discussing this in good faith, I would suggest rereading what I've said since you initiated this conversation; comprehension is not above you, due to the exclusions of my words you've made with quoting my posts when responding to them

I always discuss in good faith, and if exclude any words from your posts, it's because it's the parts that I quoted that I'm responding to.

[Akito Kinomoto]

Originally Posted by Endscape

I always discuss in good faith, and if exclude any words from your posts, it's because it's the parts that I quoted that I'm responding to.

The parts you're responding to are parts that don't answer the questions you ask without the parts you're excluding

[milan kyuubi]

Major SPOILER! Read at your own peril!

MASSIVE SPOILER FROM STAR WARS THE LAST JEDI NOVEL THAT WILL COME OUT ON TUESDAY MARCH 6th!

Spoilers

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[Chosen_Hero]

Originally Posted by milan kyuubi

Major SPOILER! Read at your own peril!

MASSIVE SPOILER FROM STAR WARS THE LAST JEDI NOVEL THAT WILL COME OUT ON TUESDAY MARCH 6th!

Spoilers

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Welp, there's your thread into episode IX onwards.

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by milan kyuubi

Major SPOILER! Read at your own peril!

MASSIVE SPOILER FROM STAR WARS THE LAST JEDI NOVEL THAT WILL COME OUT ON TUESDAY MARCH 6th!

Spoilers

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We all know what that means, don't we?

[TnAdct1]

Originally Posted by milan kyuubi

Major SPOILER! Read at your own peril!

MASSIVE SPOILER FROM STAR WARS THE LAST JEDI NOVEL THAT WILL COME OUT ON TUESDAY MARCH 6th!

Spoilers

Spoiler for SPOILER

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Spoiler:

Debunked to be nothing more than a dream sequence.

[Mad Pierrot]

I finally watched it.

Spoiler for Just in case:

Man, I have never seen a former hero having so much bad treatment. It is reminding me to Chris Redfield from RE6. Poor Luke got filled with a lot of angst and the plot made it even look like the guilty for almost everything happening. Then there was almost no dynamic between him and Rey, with the latter just becoming stronger by herself rather than having a proper training. Then we have Luke doing something heroic... in the last five minutes of the movie which somehow results in his death (how exactly did he die? Was this a reference to Obiwan's death?). Still, I enjoyed this tragic movies. I just wish the death scene of such an popular character would have an actual impact in the story.

[Ithekro]

The deleted scene on starwars.com shows something unusual. Captain Phasma, a stormtrooper, hitting her targets. Four of them in a row. Twilight Zone (or Clone Arc Trooper) levels compared to most Stormtrooper depictions.

[milan kyuubi]

It's of topic and maybe some of you have already seen it. But for those who haven't, it's a must watch!

YouTube

https://youtu.be/wk0bRElYuXk

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