Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha Character Creation and Discussion

[Tk3997]

Right well I'm back home, have been for a few days acutally, but I've been decompressing after all the driving and parties and such over the holidays. Been playing allot of games and such since I was nearly in withdrawal from a week without them. Anyway I'll hopefully go through the backlog tonight, dosen't seem like much I'll need to comment on though, and get back in the "Game" as it where acutally I may as well do a quick warmup now.

Originally Posted by Keroko

Cartridge size is also an issue, Bardiche uses cartridges the size of grenade launcher rounds, whereas Subaru's knuckle uses cartridges that are more regular bullet sized.

Eh... No not even close. Lowe is pretty much spot on but I shall provide some visual evidence to demonstrate the sheer size of the gap.

Spoiler for Image spam:

First off this Pic:

The big fat one is a 40mm Grenade Launcher round as you can see this thing is huge, but the cartridges we aren't even near the size of the smaller 25mm rounds.
That magazine holds 5 shots, and I think we can agree those rounds are HUGE compared to what we see on Bardiche. (as an aside yes that IS a 25mm sniper rifle… and no overkill dose not exist.) Anyway the cartridges in Bardiche are as said high caliber magnum sized or there abouts probably somewhere between .44 and .50 caliber. When you see them laying around they look very much like standard magnum shells in a speed loader like this.


This looks somewhat close size wise for the actual bullets:


.500 S&W a big bullet to be sure but still a bullet and not a grenade round! So really it’s more like Subaru is using .22LR and Fate is packing high caliber magnum rounds.

[Wild Goose]

I'd always thought the cartridges were Magnum rounds, either .44 or .454; they look huge in the hands of Nanoha and Fate in A's, but remember, these are nine year olds with small hands... (Franz uses .454 for his pistol device and .300 for his rifle/sword device)

On a side note: speaking of the 25mm sniper rifle (Barrett calls it a "payload rifle" because it fires fucking HEAT rounds and THERMOBARIC, AKA FUEL AIR EXPLOSIVE ROUNDS), Ivanovich upgrades to one during Disrupted Tangent. As his APC comes under fire from barricade Gadget Drones, he smiles nastily and fires, emptying the mag into the 5 drones blocking the road; they all blow up.

But... Jesus, I didn't know Barrett had made a short barrel variant of the XM109. All the pics I'd seen of it were the long barrel version.

And no, there is no such thing as overkill. I shudder to think of the Red Cross' complaints on the use of this weapon on humans. It's inhumane, but then war is inhumane...

...fuck that, I want it for COD4 multiplayer. THough there'd be huge complaints of hax...

As for Subaru, I was thinking she was using 7.65mm rounds, like the ones in the Walther PPK.

[LoweGear]

Originally Posted by Tk3997

Spoiler for Image spam:

That magazine holds 5 shots, and I think we can agree those rounds are HUGE compared to what we see on Bardiche. (as an aside yes that IS a 25mm sniper rifle… and no overkill dose not exist.) Anyway the cartridges in Bardiche are as said high caliber magnum sized or there abouts probably somewhere between .44 and .50 caliber. When you see them laying around they look very much like standard magnum shells in a speed loader like this.

I know Barrett has some very large sniping weapons, but never THAT BIG 50. Cal sure looks small to me now

Originally Posted by Wild Goose

On a side note: speaking of the 25mm sniper rifle (Barrett calls it a "payload rifle" because it fires fucking HEAT rounds and THERMOBARIC, AKA FUEL AIR EXPLOSIVE ROUNDS)

OH FREAKING YEAH

Originally Posted by Wild Goose

But... Jesus, I didn't know Barrett had made a short barrel variant of the XM109. All the pics I'd seen of it were the long barrel version.

Me neither

Originally Posted by Wild Goose

...fuck that, I want it for COD4 multiplayer. THough there'd be huge complaints of hax...

Nah, just give me an XM307 for some nice automatic grenade strafing

[Kha]

Originally Posted by Reiji Tabibito

Okay, what is this - movie stealing year?

Honestly, it's enough to copy The Dark Knight, but AvP and I am Legend too?

I have just ONE thing to say about this:

Ah well, that crack spam for the past few days was for a reason... Only The Gray Knight is going to get written, and it only borrows the title, but shares nothing with the original in content. Like Cleric Begins.

Originally Posted by Reiji Tabibito

<picks up illegally, obscenely large warhammer>

KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AA!!!!!


<begins trying to brain der Kleriker w/said warhammer>

Oh come on! First a sword, now a warhammer?!

*sidesteps swing*

Whatever happened to the hot favorite Ion Canon?! I need a blast pronto!

Originally Posted by Reiji Tabibito

The first MSLN LegendS OP is DONE!

And HEEERE it is!

Spoiler for MSLN LegendS OP #1:

Invoke by T.M. Revolution

[Instrumental]
Shot of the Delphinus flying thru space, first away from the camera and up, then reappearing a few seconds later, going from left to right. It then reappears from the right side, silhouetted against what is obviously the planet Gaelica before it is obscured by the familiar Nanoha logo, with LegendS under it.

surechigai isogu tabi ni
(Every time we hurry past each other,)
Shot of Boomer from the front, Elsior in hand, and a black-haired woman in a backless dress from behind, against the background of a starry night.

butsukeai chigireau
(we hit and tear ourselves on impact)
Shot of Sevasti from the front and of a brown-haired figure in a long, dark grey duster from the back against the background of a city at sunset.

tagai no hane no itami
(and we feel the pain)
Shot of a young woman with dark red hair from the back, and of Mel from the front against a background of swords crossed with tridents.

kanjiteiru
(in each other’s wings.)
Shot of a young man with navy blue hair and grey eyes from the front, and Arcas from the back against a background of Velkan triangles.

samishisa ni yogoreta
(I held you in my arms,)
Shot of Nanoha and Yuuno, with the Infinite Librarian embracing the White Devil from behind, and their eyes all closed.

ude de daita
(unclean and impure,)
Shot of Caro and Erio, with the Lancer Knight holding the Dragon Summoner, with her head on Erio’s shoulder, his left arm around her waist, and his right hand at the back of her neck.

sore igai no
(because in my loneliness,)
Shot of Shamal and Phanan, with Phanan smirking and Shamal smiling, their eyes locked on the other.

nanika wo shiranai kara
(I know nothing else.)
Shot of Mel and Arcas, with the Dragonslayer’s head in the Lady Saint’s Lap, his eyes closed, her stroking his hair while sitting on what appears to be a bench in a park.

tsunagaru shunkan
(The moment that we connect,)
Shot of the Delphinus, whose cabin lights up, followed by the appearance of two naked, silhouetted figures looking at each other, who are revealed to be Caro and Erio.

mezameru eien
(eternity will awaken -)
Shot of Arcas, who is upside-down, and the navy-blue haired young man, who is right side up, looking out towards the camera, who then appear onscreen, facing each other and pointing their Devices at each other, Arcas on the left with Apalis, and the young man on the right with a bladed mace, all against the background of a large suit of armor surrounded in flames.

machikogareru
(I long for it.)
Shot of the Delphinus’ bridge, with Mel in the right-hand seat, and Sevasti in the left, looking back towards the camera; followed by a shot of the brown-haired figure in the duster, seated in the central chair of a command center; followed by a shot of Himeya and Rein speaking via commlinks to someone offscreen before flashing thru shots of five faces: a blue-violet haired woman with blue-grey eyes; a silver-haired man with slate blue eyes; a black-haired man with black eyes; a blonde-haired young woman with blue eyes, and the navy-blue haired young man with grey eyes.

hayasugiru toki no
(Exposed in a flickering instant)
Shot of Boomer and Nanoha swooping in on the attack, firing Arc Laser and Accel Shooter, followed by a shot of the black-haired man carrying a two-handed sword zipping back and forth, dodging the spells.

matataki ni sarasarete
(that flew by too fast,)
Shot of Elsior’s twin gunbarrels positioning themselves, then firing a pair of Buster-type attacks that impact against the black-haired man’s Barrier Jacket, stunning him.

hitori dewa todokanai
(I can’t reach it alone -)
Shot of Arcas looking out towards the camera, then turning his face to the camera’s left, looking offscreen as the rest of the TSAB portion of the cast appears behind him.

negai nante
(not with wishes)
Shot of the black-haired woman in the dress again, staring out a window at the distant battle, her hand touching the glass before she leans her head against it and closes her eyes, as if in prayer.

kiesou na kotoba ja
(and fragile words.)
Shot of Aurion Dauer as he turns towards the camera, smirks, and holds out what appears to be a sword-type Device, handle first.

karamiau netsu no
(Entangled in this heat,)
Shot of a drone frantically evading a shadow, which is revealed to be Mel as she bisects it and flies offscreen as it explodes.

tsutaetai shinjitsu wo
(wanting to speak the truth,)
Shot of Arcas and the navy blue-haired man circling each other, with the camera closing on Arcas’ face before pulling back just in time to show him fire a Flame Buster into the night sky, presumably at his opponent.

dare kara mamoreba ii
(who do I protect?)
Shot of Rogue Squadron and the Forwards flying in, Subaru and Ginga on Wing Roads, Teana close behind Subaru on her motorcycle, and Caro and Erio on Fried.

kimi ga itsuka hoshikatta omoi ga
(Those feelings you wanted me to have one day…)Shot of the Delphinus’ rear gangway opening, revealing the entire 82nd, Barrier Jackets and Devices deployed, followed by a shot which focuses on their faces, followed by a shot of an electronic board with three dimmed lights, which light up in sequence, followed by a large sign which says “LAUNCH” lighting up before the quartet takes off from the ship.

soko ni aru nara
(They are there.)
Shot of the Delphinus from the outside, which shows the 82nd taking off from the cargo bay, Arcas in the lead.

And yes, if you need some help visualizing a few of the scenes, go see the 1st Gundam SEED OP on Youtube.

Or, better yet:

And ALSO yes, I took some liberties with the lyric translation - something I WILL do again in the future.

Well done! No complaint here, other than: Where's that naked silouette shot?

*dodges sword and warhammer*

Originally Posted by Keroko

Anyway, I guess this means that Saga of Saga never happened in your rebuild?

It did. This was before "Signum" lost her memory and became Signum only, to be discovered by Tiara and gang uttering "Erio" and "Laevantine". Now I've a perfectly good crackless reason why the then amnesiac was doing that.

It was after Signum caught sight of Agito briefly, that that buried memory began to stir. Same thing happens to Agito.

Originally Posted by Keroko

Wait wait wait, roll back. What on earth are you talking about?

Well nothing really. The betawriters made me throw the idea out.

Originally Posted by LoweGear

That's no excuse for imminent immorality and infidelity

Besides, been wanting to test that sword on someone for sometime now

Yeah well it was mostly hype. I'm trying to taunt-- er I mean... Hmm never mind.

Originally Posted by LoweGear

T3H CRACK is very bad indeed

Rest easy, that idea's been thrown out for "mindfuck". The good enjoyable type, not the Asuka-mindscrewing.

As for what I am saying, it'll have to wait till I get to that part. No OCs' integrity were harmed in the process of writing.

Originally Posted by Keroko

Keroko-kun: .... You still got that target-lock Keroko-tan?

Keroko-tan: Whach? Fire on target-lock? HACHA!

Keroko-tan: Oops.

Spoiler for Keroko-kun:

"The Trap has been laid, and the bait set."

"Shouldn't it be the trap has been set?"

"Oh shut up and enjoy the light show."

Old Master Saru: Oh heavens above! The candle has been lit! THEY shall come! THEY shall come!

See the reason why I've been asking for it?

[FlameSparkZ]

Originally Posted by Saint X

Look closely, deep inside some you can find a tsundere... and the occaisonal Yandere

I see...

Originally Posted by Saint X

well some privies are SinX dominant, SD/BS and such

Yah, it is one of the coolest classes around

Originally Posted by Saint X

lemme guess:

HAXXaweh?

*runs*

Originally Posted by Saint X

Simca is hawt thought

Don't know who that is.

Originally Posted by Saint X

Saint X is thinking deeply upon the horror of what he will unleash.

Originally Posted by Keroko

In the old days, when the series was still running, we dreaded and anticipated the arival of the next Ion Canon blast with each episode. Each episode contained new information that could make or break our characters, when someone's character got shot to pieces by the new info (like your Treize) we called it 'getting hit by the Ion Canon'

Remember now?

Oh, THAT Ion Canon
I thought it was the older Ion Canon from A's, before StrikerS
That one did a lot more damage

Besides, Treize didn't take a direct hit She's alive and well

Originally Posted by Reiji Tabibito

Some variation of Hyaweh, I'm guessing...

I made it myself

Spoiler for Top-Secret:

I'm currently trying to implement the Cartrige System there

Originally Posted by Reiji Tabibito

Thanks!

*runs*

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by LoweGear

I don't think they'd be the size of Grenade Launcher rounds, considering how large Bardiche would have to be in order for them to be so (mind you, a standard 40mm grenade round is somewhere around the size of a small can). At most, they'd be 357. Magnum sized, one of the larger calibers you can slap on a revolver, or if you want very large a .50 caliber (12mm) round. Revolver Knuckle's would be something around the size of a 45. or a 9mm.

Originally Posted by Tk3997

Eh... No not even close. Lowe is pretty much spot on but I shall provide some visual evidence to demonstrate the sheer size of the gap.

Spoiler for Image spam:

First off this Pic:

The big fat one is a 40mm Grenade Launcher round as you can see this thing is huge, but the cartridges we aren't even near the size of the smaller 25mm rounds.

Damn, didn't know the things were that freaking big. Statement withdrawn.

However...

Spoiler for Image spam and counter image spam:

Originally Posted by Tk3997

This seems very similar in both apearance and size to Nanoha's cartridge magazines. Does that mean Nanoha uses 25 mm rounds?

Originally Posted by Tk3997

Compared to what we've seen of Fate's cartridges, they are longer then the High Caliber Magnum rounds. Not grenade launcher size (I've already withdrawn that claim) but still bigger then those rounds. For example, this screenshot of the speedloader next to Bardiche as comparison:

Originally Posted by Kha

Well nothing really. The betawriters made me throw the idea out.

Still curious.

Originally Posted by Kha

Keroko-tan: Whach? Fire on target-lock? HACHA!

Keroko-tan: Oops.

Spoiler for Keroko-kun:

"The Trap has been laid, and the bait set."

"Shouldn't it be the trap has been set?"

"Oh shut up and enjoy the light show."

Old Master Saru: Oh heavens above! The candle has been lit! THEY shall come! THEY shall come!

See the reason why I've been asking for it?

.... Scrin? Nope, beyond that not ringing any bells.

Originally Posted by Kha

It did. This was before "Signum" lost her memory and became Signum only, to be discovered by Tiara and gang uttering "Erio" and "Laevantine". Now I've a perfectly good crackless reason why the then amnesiac was doing that.

It was after Signum caught sight of Agito briefly, that that buried memory began to stir. Same thing happens to Agito.

... You know what? Screw it. Keroko-tan! Second volley!

Keroko-tan: Hayo! Second volley, Hacha!

Originally Posted by FlameSparkZ

Oh, THAT Ion Canon
I thought it was the older Ion Canon from A's, before StrikerS
That one did a lot more damage

Besides, Treize didn't take a direct hit She's alive and well

Treize did take a direct hit. You managed to save her, but she took a direct hit nonetheless.

[Wild Goose]

Originally Posted by Keroko

This seems very similar in both apearance and size to Nanoha's cartridge magazines. Does that mean Nanoha uses 25 mm rounds?

I doubt so. At a glance, while they seem similar, Nanoha's cartridges are nowhere near the size of 25mm rounds; if you see by the image, the 25mm is really 40mm across when counting the diameter of the casing; none of Nanoha's cartridges are that big. My personal theory (after hastily rewatching A's) is that her cartridges were 12.7mm (aka .50 cal), given that your average .50cal round (cartridge, primer and bullet) is about the size of a stick of RAM (well, bigger by a bit...)

Compared to what we've seen of Fate's cartridges, they are longer then the High Caliber Magnum rounds. Not grenade launcher size (I've already withdrawn that claim) but still bigger then those rounds. For example, this screenshot of the reloader next to Bardiche as comparison:

Spoiler:

That bugged me for a while; I'd forgotten that it bugged me. Judging by the animation the cartridges appear to be of similar size to heavy caliber Magnum rounds, but longer...

Also, check the scene where Shamal is prepping cartridges and charging them with mana. Where the hell did she get those? Because they looked like normal pistol rounds to me...well, Magnum rounds, at any rate... (also, as an aside: where are Fate and Nanoha getting their mana charges from? Selfcharging like Rin? Or there's an armorer who has just enough power to charge the cartridges for them?)

Side trivia: the main thing that sets apart a Magnum round from a normal round is the fact that Magnum rounds are longer, so as to pack in more powder. Thus, you can fire .38 Special rounds from a .357 Magnum revolver, or .44 Special from a .44 magnum, but not the other way around.

Also, sorry to nitpick, but the thing that you called a "reloader" is a speedloader.

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by Wild Goose

I doubt so. At a glance, while they seem similar, Nanoha's cartridges are nowhere near the size of 25mm rounds; if you see by the image, the 25mm is really 40mm across when counting the diameter of the casing; none of Nanoha's cartridges are that big. My personal theory (after hastily rewatching A's) is that her cartridges were 12.7mm (aka .50 cal), given that your average .50cal round (cartridge, primer and bullet) is about the size of a stick of RAM (well, bigger by a bit...)

I see. I've got a lot to learn about bullets, it seems.

Originally Posted by Wild Goose

Also, check the scene where Shamal is prepping cartridges and charging them with mana. Where the hell did she get those? Because they looked like normal pistol rounds to me...well, Magnum rounds, at any rate...

Created by Yami no Sho, perhaps? If it can supply the knights with armor, surely amunition shouldn't be a problem for a Lost Logia.

Originally Posted by Wild Goose

(also, as an aside: where are Fate and Nanoha getting their mana charges from? Selfcharging like Rin? Or there's an armorer who has just enough power to charge the cartridges for them?)

That's easy, their cartridges were supplied by the TSAB, who probably use technomagic to mass produce and charge cartridges.

Originally Posted by Wild Goose

Also, sorry to nitpick, but the thing that you called a "reloader" is a speedloader.

Right. Speedloader. Got it.

[dkellis]

Originally Posted by Wild Goose

Also, check the scene where Shamal is prepping cartridges and charging them with mana. Where the hell did she get those? Because they looked like normal pistol rounds to me...well, Magnum rounds, at any rate... (also, as an aside: where are Fate and Nanoha getting their mana charges from? Selfcharging like Rin? Or there's an armorer who has just enough power to charge the cartridges for them?)

See, I asked these questions way back when StrikerS began, and was basically told that I was thinking too hard about it.

I have yet to come up with an answer that does not boil down to "it's MAGIC".

Basically, I'm not sure where the physical cartridges come from, especially since we see in A's and StrikerS that the cartridge-users are careless about leaving those cartridges on the scene (not collecting them afterwards). There was a suggestion before that the cartridges themselves are made of magic and they dissolve after a certain period of time, but that does not bode well for long-term storage of cartridges, since I'm not sure if an organization like the TSAB can operate on just-in-time delivery of items.

We know that the TSAB knew about the Belkan cartridge system back in A's, since said cartridge system had a serial number (meaning that it was categorized and filed away before the events therein), which is plausible since they were allied with Saint Church as of StrikerS and probably before. Therefore, it's also plausible that the TSAB, whether from its own Neo-Belka mages or Saint Church, learned how to create cartridges, or hired people who could.

Shamal, meanwhile, presumably does the cartridge-charging thing as part of her duties as a Knight, and it is logical to assume that the Book of Darkness would want to provide what is essentially a self-sufficient force in the Knights, so Shamal's source of the physical cartridges is either herself or the Book of Darkness, somehow.

I'm not sure how many different calibres of cartridges there are; there's probably a trade-off between the obvious benefits of standardization (I'll leave it to the experts to explain, but basically it lets people share ammo) and what I would assume to be the "style", and thus fighting effectiveness, of individual implementations of the cartridge system. For example, I'm not sure why Bardiche has the revolver setup and Raising Heart has the magazine setup when they had their cartridge systems installed at the same time. I mean, I can guess, but I don't know for sure.

[Wild Goose]

Originally Posted by Keroko

I see. I've got a lot to learn about bullets, it seems.

Lol, you made another faux pas there. Only the actual tip is the "bullet". The proper term to describe the complete package (and the simplest) is "round", which is used to refer to the full package of bullet, primer & casing. Don't feel too bad though; I got lectured on these by my dad a while back (he was ROTC and wanted to go Army but busted the physical after they found he was colorblind. He was very disappointed.)

Created by Yami no Sho, perhaps? If it can supply the knights with armor, surely amunition shouldn't be a problem for a Lost Logia.

That's something, I guess... *shrugs* We'l probably never know...

That's easy, their cartridges were supplied by the TSAB, who probably use technomagic to mass produce and charge cartridges.

Hmmm. I suppose that would work, seeing as how the TSAB IS a rather hugeass organisation...

Oh god, I just had a new Noble Phantasm pop into my mind: Unlimited Cartridge Works ~ Infinite Creation of Cartridges, the Noble Phantasm of the unnamed TSAB armorer who makes cartridges

I am the primer of my cartridge
Steel is my body and mana is my blood
I have loaded over a thousand devices
Unknown to jamming, nor known to misfire
Yet these hands will never know peace
So as I pray, Unlimited Cartridge Works

Really outta the left field Anybody wanna take a shot at cleaning it up and making it better? Lowe! Get Smith and Wesson in here!

Right. Speedloader. Got it.

Yep!

Originally Posted by dkellis

See, I asked these questions way back when StrikerS began, and was basically told that I was thinking too hard about it.

I have yet to come up with an answer that does not boil down to "it's MAGIC".

To be fair, this IS a fusion of mahou shoujo and sci-fi.

Basically, I'm not sure where the physical cartridges come from, especially since we see in A's and StrikerS that the cartridge-users are careless about leaving those cartridges on the scene (not collecting them afterwards). There was a suggestion before that the cartridges themselves are made of magic and they dissolve after a certain period of time, but that does not bode well for long-term storage of cartridges, since I'm not sure if an organization like the TSAB can operate on just-in-time delivery of items.

We know that the TSAB knew about the Belkan cartridge system back in A's, since said cartridge system had a serial number (meaning that it was categorized and filed away before the events therein), which is plausible since they were allied with Saint Church as of StrikerS and probably before. Therefore, it's also plausible that the TSAB, whether from its own Neo-Belka mages or Saint Church, learned how to create cartridges, or hired people who could.

Shamal, meanwhile, presumably does the cartridge-charging thing as part of her duties as a Knight, and it is logical to assume that the Book of Darkness would want to provide what is essentially a self-sufficient force in the Knights, so Shamal's source of the physical cartridges is either herself or the Book of Darkness, somehow.

On the subject of serial numbers, it could well be that the TSAB classed the system according to the Belkan serial number it originally had; though our point is quite valid. I hadn't really thought about Shamal doing the charging as part of her duties; the impression Triad's subs gave me was "Well, I'm not needing these, and you and Vita need them more than me, so I can help y'all make them rather than sitting wasting my time in a half-assed manner."

I'm not sure how many different calibres of cartridges there are; there's probably a trade-off between the obvious benefits of standardization (I'll leave it to the experts to explain, but basically it lets people share ammo) and what I would assume to be the "style", and thus fighting effectiveness, of individual implementations of the cartridge system. For example, I'm not sure why Bardiche has the revolver setup and Raising Heart has the magazine setup when they had their cartridge systems installed at the same time. I mean, I can guess, but I don't know for sure.

Not to mention that standardised ammo is easier to distribute in bulk, plus you get bulk discounts and shit, and it means you can grab ammo from say a SAW and it'll work in an M16 (almost all rifles chambered for 7.62mm NATO use the same style of magazine well so you could theoretically use G3 magazines in a FAL; ditto M16/M4 and G36, FAMAS, L86).

As for Bardiche, my guess is that the revolver system provides Fate with better balance, since she's swinging it around so much; my OC Naomi Jaeger uses a relvolver setup for the same reason. Since Nanoha is more to the tanking and firing, it makes more sense for her to use a box magazine and recoil operation system; you can chamber cartridges faster, and use the mag as a grip (note: in real life, only a handful of rifles are this stable. There's a reason they make tac grips for most weapons with Picatinny rails).

Also, the beamspam is somewhat more impressive with the breech sliding back, ejecting a spent cartridge, and sliding forward, a new cartridge chambered...

[Tormenk]

Originally Posted by LoweGear

Who's this supposed to be anyway?

The failed gar attempt was Yuuno. Dishing out the Black Impact was Katrina. Likely to happen in the far off future if I ever make it that far in writing it out.

Reminds me on why traditional human instinct is becoming obsolete in the modern world

Can't keep up with the unique environment of this world.

Originally Posted by Keroko

Its their own fault for ignoring everything that is not Satashi.

I think the thread can be renamed into Satashi's Hideout or something. Sounds like something in the fan creation sections.

If they'd do that in canon, that would certainly make my day. In OC-verse, though, Keroko is already in that bed.

Along that thought, any Yuuno and Keroko bed scenes?

That too, but the beamspam is what I was aiming for.

Got it.

In the old days, when the series was still running, we dreaded and anticipated the arival of the next Ion Canon blast with each episode. Each episode contained new information that could make or break our characters, when someone's character got shot to pieces by the new info (like your Treize) we called it 'getting hit by the Ion Canon'

Remember now?

Old days huh..

Originally Posted by LoweGear

Don't worry, I plan on continuing that story no matter what. Although I don't usually write when I'm not in the proper mood to do so, and it's hard to write something like that when you're in a holiday mood.

The holiday bugs bite and won't let go even now.

Originally Posted by dkellis

See, I asked these questions way back when StrikerS began, and was basically told that I was thinking too hard about it.

I have yet to come up with an answer that does not boil down to "it's MAGIC".

Even now there are alot of questions that can be deemed thinking too hard. Off-hand somethings I wonder about are means of transportation both magical and non-magical for those within the universe, whether they are mages or not, the status of freelance mercenary mages in the employ other than the TSAB etc.

Originally Posted by Wild Goose

Hmmm. I suppose that would work, seeing as how the TSAB IS a rather hugeass organisation...

Oh god, I just had a new Noble Phantasm pop into my mind: Unlimited Cartridge Works ~ Infinite Creation of Cartridges, the Noble Phantasm of the unnamed TSAB armorer who makes cartridges

I am the primer of my cartridge
Steel is my body and mana is my blood
I have loaded over a thousand devices
Unknown to jamming, nor known to misfire
Yet these hands will never know peace
So as I pray, Unlimited Cartridge Works

Really outta the left field Anybody wanna take a shot at cleaning it up and making it better? Lowe! Get Smith and Wesson in here!

Any UBW-related chant is a good one for me.

As for Bardiche, my guess is that the revolver system provides Fate with better balance, since she's swinging it around so much; my OC Naomi Jaeger uses a relvolver setup for the same reason. Since Nanoha is more to the tanking and firing, it makes more sense for her to use a box magazine and recoil operation system; you can chamber cartridges faster, and use the mag as a grip (note: in real life, only a handful of rifles are this stable. There's a reason they make tac grips for most weapons with Picatinny rails).

Also, the beamspam is somewhat more impressive with the breech sliding back, ejecting a spent cartridge, and sliding forward, a new cartridge chambered...

That is one consideration I hadn't thought of before with considerations of magitech and traditional concerns.

And yeah, Nanoha's beamspam in A's was made that much more awesome because of this.

[Evangelion Xgouki]

Originally Posted by Kha

Oh come on! First a sword, now a warhammer?!

*sidesteps swing*

Whatever happened to the hot favorite Ion Canon?! I need a blast pronto!

Ion Control Center

OpCmd: Approval and code confirmed. We are a go.

Op1: Bringing control systems online.

Op2: Locating target...target lock confirmed.

Op1: Altering orbit...will be in position in 30 seconds.

Op2: Releasing firing lock.

Op1: Ion Cannon is now hot. Awaiting firing order.

Op2: Um, permission to speak freely sir?

OpCmd: Permission granted.

Op2: Isn't this a little...overkill sir?

OpCmd: Apparently you haven't been on duty when the Kerokos are around, huh?

Op2: Uh, no sir.

OpCmd: Let's just say that this is pretty...tame compared to when they order a bombardment.

Op2: Er, right sir.

OpCmd: Anyway, Fire on my command...FIRE!

Originally Posted by Kha

Rest easy, that idea's been thrown out for "mindfuck". The good enjoyable type, not the Asuka-mindscrewing.

Poor Asuka .
Although since when is a 'mindfuck' enjoyable?

Originally Posted by Kha

Keroko-tan: Whach? Fire on target-lock? HACHA!

Keroko-tan: Oops.

Ah, I remember that mission. 'Oops' indeed .

Originally Posted by FlameSparkZ

Yah, it is one of the coolest classes around

Ah, the memories of old SinX....

Originally Posted by Keroko

.... Scrin? Nope, beyond that not ringing any bells.

The new faction in C&C3, the Scrin.

Originally Posted by Keroko

... You know what? Screw it. Keroko-tan! Second volley!

Keroko-tan: Hayo! Second volley, Hacha!

Man I love the new Ion Cannon animation .

Originally Posted by Wild Goose

Oh god, I just had a new Noble Phantasm pop into my mind: Unlimited Cartridge Works ~ Infinite Creation of Cartridges, the Noble Phantasm of the unnamed TSAB armorer who makes cartridges

I am the primer of my cartridge
Steel is my body and mana is my blood
I have loaded over a thousand devices
Unknown to jamming, nor known to misfire
Yet these hands will never know peace
So as I pray, Unlimited Cartridge Works

Really outta the left field Anybody wanna take a shot at cleaning it up and making it better? Lowe! Get Smith and Wesson in here!

Originally Posted by Tormenk

I think the thread can be renamed into Satashi's Hideout or something. Sounds like something in the fan creation sections.

Seem like it, huh?

Originally Posted by Tormenk

And yeah, Nanoha's beamspam in A's was made that much more awesome because of this.

Yea it was, huh? As she spent more cartridges you got a feel for the amount of power in the attack and went .
Like when she spent almost an entire magazine to blast Quattro in StrikerS...

[Mortarion]

Originally Posted by LoweGear

I know Barrett has some very large sniping weapons, but never THAT BIG 50. Cal sure looks small to me now



OH FREAKING YEAH



Me neither



Nah, just give me an XM307 for some nice automatic grenade strafing

Dude...that gun is like...insane...

I cant decide wether that thing is pure genius or just plain lunacy. although i have to say, if you have to stafe someone with a grenade launcher, your doing something seriously wrong, or your seriously outclassed...either or really

[Tk3997]

Originally Posted by Keroko

Damn, didn't know the things were that freaking big. Statement withdrawn.

However...

This seems very similar in both apearance and size to Nanoha's cartridge magazines. Does that mean Nanoha uses 25 mm rounds?

Very doubtful another image with a human for somewhat better scale:

Spoiler for size:

As you can see these mags are HUGE.

Spoiler for Image spam and counter image spam:

Compared to what we've seen of Fate's cartridges, they are longer then the High Caliber Magnum rounds. Not grenade launcher size (I've already withdrawn that claim) but still bigger then those rounds. For example, this screenshot of the speedloader next to Bardiche as comparison:

That’s debatable IMO looking at Bardiche in the foreground, which we know you can easily hold between two fingers, it’s quite close IMO at best the cases are a few millimeters longer, if that.

Also when the scales get this small, as said millimeters, the accuracy of the animators (who couldn't even seem to decide how big Teana breasts were through half the anime.) comes into question. Some highly technical guys with an intense interest or understanding of the subject can be somewht relied upon to consider such things, but with a random animator whose probably just given a rough objective like "big pistol bullets in a speedloader" drawing any definitive conclusions is very hard. That's why I gave caliber ranges and used "about" allot really IMO you could aruge they're anything from about .357 to to slightly larger then .500 S&W which is why I just prefer "large bore pistol rounds" myself and then just calling others bigger or smaller.

Originally Posted by Wild Goose

I doubt so. At a glance, while they seem similar, Nanoha's cartridges are nowhere near the size of 25mm rounds; if you see by the image, the 25mm is really 40mm across when counting the diameter of the casing; none of Nanoha's cartridges are that big. My personal theory (after hastily rewatching A's) is that her cartridges were 12.7mm (aka .50 cal), given that your average .50cal round (cartridge, primer and bullet) is about the size of a stick of RAM (well, bigger by a bit...)

I VERY much doubt that, this is a magazine for 12.7mm:

Spoiler for More image spam:

Again it's frikkin huge compared to what we see on Raising Heart IMO... I can see them being the size of a medium caliber (>6.5mm) assault rifle, but no more really.

That bugged me for a while; I'd forgotten that it bugged me. Judging by the animation the cartridges appear to be of similar size to heavy caliber Magnum rounds, but longer...

I don't think we can trust the animators enough to make judgments like that when we're probably taking differences in the millimeter range here...

Also, check the scene where Shamal is prepping cartridges and charging them with mana. Where the hell did she get those? Because they looked like normal pistol rounds to me...well, Magnum rounds, at any rate...

Well they can teleport maybe she just hoped over a US gun show to stock up.

(also, as an aside: where are Fate and Nanoha getting their mana charges from? Selfcharging like Rin? Or there's an armorer who has just enough power to charge the cartridges for them?)

Hard to say it would seem to depend on how many users you had and how much you could standardize them, and some might still prefer to do it themselves just like some shooters like to reload their own ammo at home. That said people using cartridges still seem rare and every weapon we've ever seen that uses them seems to be of a slightly different caliber so IMO it's possible the mages do still make them themselves or that they're produced by a small team of armorers working more like craftsmen then in a big old industrialized factory... Sort of like the Army has a team of armories that dose nothing but maintain, build, and produce ammo for their match rifle team.

Originally Posted by Mortarion

Dude...that gun is like...insane...

I cant decide wether that thing is pure genius or just plain lunacy. although i have to say, if you have to stafe someone with a grenade launcher, your doing something seriously wrong, or your seriously outclassed...either or really

Or you're in speedy hover vehicle...

The Hachimoto is so much fun if you get a decent pilot/gunner combo going...

[Ryand-Smith]

Hello all. Love the general debate on the caliber in Nanoha and company's arsenal, but I would like to ask how get involved in this madess that is the Nanoha RPG. What's the current stage of the world, and how far OC have we gone from StrikerS?

[Evangelion Xgouki]

Originally Posted by Ryand-Smith

Hello all. Love the general debate on the caliber in Nanoha and company's arsenal, but I would like to ask how get involved in this madess that is the Nanoha RPG. What's the current stage of the world, and how far OC have we gone from StrikerS?

Ah, greetings adventurer. Welcome to the Outer Cadia

I suppose to get started, you must have an appreciation for:
-Crack (and lots of it)
-Bluecheesium (only the finest served here)
-Backlog (offered in varying quantities)
-Hot blood and GAR
-Ion Cannon strikes (and being able to survive a few... *runs*)

Actually, all you need is a great personality and active imagination . Each poster here has one or original characters that they have created and some even their own divisions. If you check out the first page, there is a master directory of people's characters and stories. Feel free to read through a few to get an idea of how to create your very own .

There is also a link there for the Nanoha-verse timeline. Sadly, we don't really have master one for the vast number of OCs. A decent chunk of the stories written are pretty independent of one another, but there are also some that use other OCs or work from a specific timeline. As far as I know, we haven't really deviated much from StrikerS in the stories here too much. Any integration of characters has been properly handled by their respective creators (like Nanoha's sister Keroko by Keroko).

If you have any questions, feel free to post and we'll help you out the best us very sane people can. We're all sane, really!

Oh, and don't worry about having to read through all 900+ pages...

[krisslanza]

I don't have a appreciation for pretty much everything on that list...
I don't even know what Bluecheesium is!

Thanks for the info everyone. Needed it to reason how many cartridges Rune's device Crea has... I'm debating it actually having 2 revolver thingies. One in each blade, as it's a swallow blade after all.

[Wild Goose]

Cartridges.... I recall writing Franz as being stuck reloading Cortana manually in Rifle Form, ala Springfield .30-06 or M40A1/A3. Considering having him upgrrade to stripper clips.

[LimitedEternal]

Ahhh...a Breaker. Haven't done one of these in a while. *lights flamethrower*

Originally Posted by LoweGear

Nah, just give me an XM307 for some nice automatic grenade strafing

That's a BIG gun. Not something I'd wanna square off against.

Originally Posted by Kha

Only The Gray Knight is going to get written, and it only borrows the title, but shares nothing with the original in content.
Well nothing really. The betawriters made me throw the idea out.

STRIKE THEM DOWN WITH ALL YOUR MIGHT!!! ...Sorry, wrong Grey Knight.

Originally Posted by Kha

Rest easy, that idea's been thrown out for "mindfuck". The good enjoyable type, not the Asuka-mindscrewing.

As for what I am saying, it'll have to wait till I get to that part. No OCs' integrity were harmed in the process of writing.

The subtle difference in mental roller-coastery being...? And what's this about integrity???

Originally Posted by Kha

Keroko-tan: Whach? Fire on target-lock? HACHA!

[CENTER]

Keroko-tan: Oops.

What the HELL just happened to that poor planet!?

Originally Posted by Wild Goose

On the subject of serial numbers, it could well be that the TSAB classed the system according to the Belkan serial number it originally had; though our point is quite valid. I hadn't really thought about Shamal doing the charging as part of her duties; the impression Triad's subs gave me was "Well, I'm not needing these, and you and Vita need them more than me, so I can help y'all make them rather than sitting wasting my time in a half-assed manner."

Not to mention that standardised ammo is easier to distribute in bulk, plus you get bulk discounts and shit, and it means you can grab ammo from say a SAW and it'll work in an M16 (almost all rifles chambered for 7.62mm NATO use the same style of magazine well so you could theoretically use G3 magazines in a FAL; ditto M16/M4 and G36, FAMAS, L86).

As for Bardiche, my guess is that the revolver system provides Fate with better balance, since she's swinging it around so much; my OC Naomi Jaeger uses a relvolver setup for the same reason. Since Nanoha is more to the tanking and firing, it makes more sense for her to use a box magazine and recoil operation system; you can chamber cartridges faster, and use the mag as a grip (note: in real life, only a handful of rifles are this stable. There's a reason they make tac grips for most weapons with Picatinny rails).

Also, the beamspam is somewhat more impressive with the breech sliding back, ejecting a spent cartridge, and sliding forward, a new cartridge chambered...

Ehh, Triad's track record is a bit wonky anyway. Though I don't think Shamal ever did use cartridges, and it is something to do in one's spare time.

On standardization...good point. However, I would guess that they don't standardize for the same reason every real-life weapon doesn't: too many variants. Off the top of my head, I can think of about twenty different ammo sizes of weapons. You can standardize to a certain degree, I guess, but there are so many different variations, not counting any custom sized weapons, that complete standardization is probably futile. Same idea with cartridges.

While we're on cartridge sizes, what's the largest revolver chamber, in number of bullets, anyone's heard of?

Originally Posted by Evangelion Xgouki

Ah, greetings adventurer. Welcome to the Outer Cadia

I suppose to get started, you must have an appreciation for:
-Crack (and lots of it)
-Bluecheesium (only the finest served here)
-Backlog (offered in varying quantities)
-Hot blood and GAR
-Ion Cannon strikes (and being able to survive a few... *runs*)

Actually, all you need is a great personality and active imagination . Each poster here has one or original characters that they have created and some even their own divisions. If you check out the first page, there is a master directory of people's characters and stories. Feel free to read through a few to get an idea of how to create your very own .

There is also a link there for the Nanoha-verse timeline. Sadly, we don't really have master one for the vast number of OCs. A decent chunk of the stories written are pretty independent of one another, but there are also some that use other OCs or work from a specific timeline. As far as I know, we haven't really deviated much from StrikerS in the stories here too much. Any integration of characters has been properly handled by their respective creators (like Nanoha's sister Keroko by Keroko).

If you have any questions, feel free to post and we'll help you out the best us very sane people can. We're all sane, really!

Oh, and don't worry about having to read through all 900+ pages...

Matte, you forgot something: The HAXXBUSTERS!

FYI Ryand, they're in charge of making sure we don't tread into overpoweredness. Nice folks though, as long as they are not provoked...

Originally Posted by Wild Goose

Cartridges.... I recall writing Franz as being stuck reloading Cortana manually in Rifle Form, ala Springfield .30-06 or M40A1/A3. Considering having him upgrrade to stripper clips.

...Stripper clips? Never heard of those.

Course, the past page and a half has taught me more about bullets and ammo than I've ever learned. I feel ready to- *shot by Heavy; outsmarted by bullet*

Originally Posted by krisslanza

I don't have a appreciation for pretty much everything on that list...
I don't even know what Bluecheesium is!

STRIKE DOWN THE INFIDEL-*muffled struggle*

Sorry. He gets all bent out every now and then.

Bluecheesium, if I'm not mistaken, basically means walls of text. Amirite?

[LoweGear]

Originally Posted by Kha

Whatever happened to the hot favorite Ion Canon?! I need a blast pronto!

You sure?

I'd be happy to comply

Originally Posted by Kha

Yeah well it was mostly hype. I'm trying to taunt-- er I mean... Hmm never mind.

Aaaw and I thought I'd get to use my other weapons as well

Originally Posted by Kha

Rest easy, that idea's been thrown out for "mindfuck". The good enjoyable type, not the Asuka-mindscrewing.

I'd screw her mind, if you get my drif-

*headshot >>> Lowe*

Originally Posted by Wild Goose

Oh god, I just had a new Noble Phantasm pop into my mind: Unlimited Cartridge Works ~ Infinite Creation of Cartridges, the Noble Phantasm of the unnamed TSAB armorer who makes cartridges

I am the primer of my cartridge
Steel is my body and mana is my blood
I have loaded over a thousand devices
Unknown to jamming, nor known to misfire
Yet these hands will never know peace
So as I load, Unlimited Cartridge Works

Really outta the left field Anybody wanna take a shot at cleaning it up and making it better? Lowe! Get Smith and Wesson in here!

Asides from a very small FIX, it's BEAUTIFUL!!!!

Originally Posted by Wild Goose

Also, the beamspam is somewhat more impressive with the breech sliding back, ejecting a spent cartridge, and sliding forward, a new cartridge chambered...

OH YEAH

One of the many reasons I like Nanoha so much

Originally Posted by Tormenk

The failed gar attempt was Yuuno. Dishing out the Black Impact was Katrina. Likely to happen in the far off future if I ever make it that far in writing it out.

Yuuno vs Katrina?!?!?! It's unthinkable, yet so AWESOME

Originally Posted by Tormenk

Can't keep up with the unique environment of this world.

Unique indeed, especially since alot of modern needs, desires, norms, philosophies, disciplines and culture go against alot of basic natural instincts Maybe that's why there's a lot of confusion and contradiction in this world between logic and feeling

Originally Posted by Tormenk

The holiday bugs bite and won't let go even now.

Very much true

Originally Posted by Evangelion Xgouki

Poor Asuka .
Although since when is a 'mindfuck' enjoyable?

When one actually consents to it?

*runs*

Originally Posted by Evangelion Xgouki

Yea it was, huh? As she spent more cartridges you got a feel for the amount of power in the attack and went .
Like when she spent almost an entire magazine to blast Quattro in StrikerS...

Yep, she was pissed

Originally Posted by Mortarion

Dude...that gun is like...insane...

I cant decide wether that thing is pure genius or just plain lunacy. although i have to say, if you have to stafe someone with a grenade launcher, your doing something seriously wrong, or your seriously outclassed...either or really

That depends on the situation... automatic grenade launchers like the Mark 19 have been around since the 70's, and is extremely useful in anti-vehicle work, and in urban combat situations, like this one:

Spoiler for Mark 19:

(As noted by the video notes, tanks don't carry Mk. 19's, shots made by off-screen HUMVEE )

Originally Posted by Tk3997

Or you're in speedy hover vehicle...

The Hachimoto is so much fun if you get a decent pilot/gunner combo going...

Originally Posted by Ryand-Smith

Hello all. Love the general debate on the caliber in Nanoha and company's arsenal, but I would like to ask how get involved in this madess that is the Nanoha RPG. What's the current stage of the world, and how far OC have we gone from StrikerS?

Welcome to OC

There's actually no limit to what you can go into here, as this isn't actually an RPG per se, so there's no set "present" timeline or timeframe to follow. We have a variety of stories and scenarios ranging from MSLN's distant past, to A's to StrikerS, to StrikerS proper and beyond. It all depends on what you have in mind, and what you want to do Just let your imagination run rampant, and most of al have fun

Originally Posted by Evangelion Xgouki

If you have any questions, feel free to post and we'll help you out the best us very sane people can. We're all sane, really!

Yes, we're very sane people, truly!

*bounces off plushy walls*

Originally Posted by krisslanza

I don't have a appreciation for pretty much everything on that list...
I don't even know what Bluecheesium is!

*points down*

Originally Posted by LimitedEternal

Bluecheesium, if I'm not mistaken, basically means walls of text. Amirite?

Yup, basically MASSIVE WALLS OF TEXT

Originally Posted by LimitedEternal

That's a BIG gun. Not something I'd wanna square off against.

It's something you'd want when you want something cleared out very quickly though