(CR) Hunter X Hunter Anime (2011)

[Guardian Enzo]

Originally Posted by Toto y Moi

My apologies. I don't mean to spoil anything and I do my best to keep my comparisons spoiler free. However, when someone attempts to question the legitimacy of my work, I have to combat it using the best means necessary in order to preserve my reputation as a poster whom has amassed an honestly stupid amount of information about Hunter x Hunter. I know what I'm talking about and I'll try to stamp out any misinformation that I can.

I also appreciate your comparisons, and I see a lot of pots calling kettles black in this thread when it comes to bias. But it's a good idea to avoid any manga spoilers at all, even for a good cause.

[Daisuki-chan]

Originally Posted by Toto y Moi

sigh. here's two more photos showing exactly what the 1999 series does with them in detail.

Alright, it's clearer now. Thanks.

Originally Posted by Toto y Moi

hahaha, are you serious? wow. how ungrateful. No, I don't work for Madhouse. I'm just someone who loves the series and wanted to explain to other fans how the three can be significantly different. I'm done here.

In all honesty, I don't see anyone PROVING anything that I've been saying is wrong. Just blind generalized statements with nothing to back them up.

Originally Posted by Toto y Moi

However, when someone attempts to question the legitimacy of my work, I have to combat it using the best means necessary in order to preserve my reputation as a poster whom has amassed an honestly stupid amount of information about Hunter x Hunter. I know what I'm talking about and I'll try to stamp out any misinformation that I can.

In the end your opinions that are heavily interleaved with the facts you mention (also, fact selection and lots of fact interpretations are subjective things in general) are not things you can "prove". Opinions are subjective. I'm sure you're totally right (or "legitimate") for yourself, but in the end you shouldn't expect others to be completely with you on (or "grateful" for) everything (or really anything subjective, i.e. everything but raw hard fact listing) you mention. Amassing a "stupid amount of information" doesn't necessarily make your opinions even one bit more valid for others, who have their own respective information selections relevant to their preferences.

By the way, why didn't you respond to what I said about Illumi? Was that not questioning the legitimacy of your work from your perspective?

[kakakka]

Originally Posted by Daisuki-chan

By the way, why didn't you respond to what I said about Illumi? Was that not questioning the legitimacy of your work from your perspective?

She did actually, but erased it because her explanations came from future manga events, which is not allowed here. Go PM her if you want the answer.

[leokiko]

Originally Posted by Daisuki-chan

By the way, why didn't you respond to what I said about Illumi? Was that not questioning the legitimacy of your work from your perspective?

Actually, he did. But he deleted it because it was full of spoilers.

[bbsbwk]

Originally Posted by leokiko

It's not like the person doing the comparisons is the word of god, it's one person's opinion. Just be satisfied he is putting up all the pictures from the episode so you can also make an decent comparison.

Yeah I see it as 1999 series fans feeling threatened that their beloved memories was being pointed out as not perfect nor even 'canon' as they believed it to be. :

Originally Posted by Toto y Moi

My apologies. I don't mean to spoil anything and I do my best to keep my comparisons spoiler free. However, when someone attempts to question the legitimacy of my work, I have to combat it using the best means necessary in order to preserve my reputation as a poster whom has amassed an honestly stupid amount of information about Hunter x Hunter. I know what I'm talking about and I'll try to stamp out any misinformation that I can.

I enjoyed your comparison so much, I don't understand why those few people have to feel so threatened by your posts. Being attached to the 1999 series is one thing, it's another thing to start attacking your intentions, stooping so low to accuse you being a Madhouse employee and whatnot... just why did they have to act like they're so butthurt by being pointed out their treasured memories was not 'canon'.

The 1999 series has many many problems (not minor at all), but the worst is the many people clanged onto it like it's the one true canon, and has been unfairly accusing the 2011 versions for the so called 'inaccuracy' that's based on that flawed 1999 version. Toto y Moi made a clear case by comparing the three sources together to sort that out. The manga IS the source material, 2011 version is NOT a remake of the 1999 series, but rather adapting the manga. It's great that Toto y Moi is getting facts straight.

The 2011 series writer already promised to introduce Kite in a later part of the series (most likely during the homecoming with Gon and Killua), and he's in the opening sequence. So most of us are not worried about him missing so far. The new series is still doing a great job (better than 1999 one in my opinion) in capturing the fun, wicked spirit and characterization of Togashi's HxH.

[Daisuki-chan]

I did notice the editing, but as it wasn't by a mod I couldn't assume that.

Anyway, she did PM me with what she probably had posted before. I'll just say (regarding the matter I brought up, and not tangents) that her link to a manga page was interesting, and gives support to the idea that Illumi doing that in the old anime is plausible, at least in a sense beyond the Lucky Ch-arms effect Hisoka did early in this anime. I personally consider it to be filler with more depth than I had considered before viewing her link (even if it was meant to be against the filler in whatever way), something the old anime did pretty well at times (and like I mentioned in the past I don't view the new anime's filler to have any worth).

Regarding it being

Spoiler for Old anime stuff + various HxH manga stuff:

a basic ability, I should clarify that what I meant by that is any ability anyone, given enough training and talent, could gain. So all those named abilities, even including more exotic combinations and uses of them. I'm not convinced one way or the other that what the link shows/what the old anime's Illumi did is really a special ability for manipulation or manipulation or emission users, as those are neighboring categories. A lot of abilities in those categories are similar, and there's obviously no more depth available to consider what Illumi did. It's also known from for example Kastro that you can develop special abilities outside of your category(-ies), so basic abilities also being that way isn't much of a stretch. However, on the other hand something possibly very suited to one category doesn't seem quite like a basic ability in the sense I meant. It would come down to mechanics for me, but there isn't anything to go on for Illumi. So I think it's possible he could do it as a sort of basic ability that his character might be good at, due to his specific talents.

Toto y Moi can tell me why emission/transmutation was the only way for this to happen in her opinion if she wants.

bbsbwk, the 1999 version obviously isn't the canon one should refer to for matters of canonness, by definition. However, and I've gone into this elsewhere, a purely quantitative (i.e. error counting) method is useless to normal people for determining canonness. Each change has potentially (and likely; statistically certain) differing weight, including from person to person. How canon each version is thus comes down to opinion. This is why people can 100% legitimately not feel as Toto y Moi does on this new anime being more or even especially canon, regardless of the raw quantity of facts she lists. It's not proof of anything except that those individual facts exist (and that's ignoring fact selection (including pictures), which is inherently biased due to the fact that one can't notice everything, and one can't consider everything important enough to mention (or notice!), alongside fact interpretation, both of which are issues many may have with her comparisons...). Lots of things she says don't have the same effect on others as they do on her, and she's not one iota more correct than them (of course, if anyone remembers something wrongly their opinion loses apparent weight, although there possibly is more that they just don't remember now, depending on the sort of opinion being held), for opinions can not trump each other. Opinions (i.e. reactions based on preferences) are inherently arbitrary.

Probably the main reason people criticize her comparisons, including in an unhelpful manner, is that her perspective is often apparently given more weight than those of others by those who haven't seen the old anime, while being quite apparently in favor of the new anime by many people's perspectives. In the end canonness is really a distraction, too, from the alternative point of goodness, which is what most people care about, and plenty of people (if you care to check the major databases) seem to think the old anime is better. Obviously no quantity of opinions is more valid than another, but when one version is typically "winning" over the other alongside being preferred by someone, that one won't enjoy people who don't know the old anime just taking her word for it that these things are what's important, and in this way, and are to be interpreted this way and not that (for example

Spoiler for Comparison discussion:

Hisoka wearing Geretta's hat (in the old anime)

earlier being "meant" to be cute; I personally consider it to be dark humor instead), etc. They'd rather that people knew that her comparisons were full of opinions in various ways instead of deferring to or leaning towards them due to reasons of effort, quantity, positivity towards the new anime, or whatever is swaying their minds.

[Dengar]

I'm still unsure why you feel so threatened by this person though. They are merely stating some facts, and their opinion based on those facts. It's not like their opinions threaten your reality or anything.

[bbsbwk]

Originally Posted by Daisuki-chan

bbsbwk, the 1999 version obviously isn't the canon one should refer to for matters of canonness, by definition. However, and I've gone into this elsewhere, a purely quantitative (i.e. error counting) method is useless to normal people for determining canonness. Each change has potentially (and likely; statistically certain) differing weight, including from person to person. How canon each version is thus comes down to opinion.

No, it's helpful when a lot of the 1999 series fans who has never read nor care for the original source material (manga), came onto the new series' boards to scream "the 2011 series got it all wrong again", when in fact the things they claimed as wrong were things the 1999 series twisted or fabricated as fillers. I've seen this so many times already. This is when the discussion for 'canon' (error counting) works. I've seen the comparison Toto y Moi made dispelled exactly what some 1999 series called as 'all wronged'.

I'm sure some people prefer the 1999 adaptation (based on your taste or sentimental value) more than the source material, but non-canon/OOC is still non-canon/OOC. Togashi's HxH is the one true canon. The 1999 series often didn't feel like Togashi's HxH as the old director stamped his own flavors, dark color palette and moralistic tone all over it. If you like that more then...you'd always have your old series. But bitching on the new series based on that while disregarding the source material constantly gets annoying. The series is a new take on the manga, NOT the 1999 series.

Other than that, most of her comparison were clearly stated as her 'opinions', She would say that she felt this take is better, or that take felt more like a closure, etc. Yet the 1999 fans who criticize her seems to get so sensitive, and take it so offensively.

Originally Posted by Daisuki-chan

In the end canonness is really a distraction, too, from the alternative point of goodness, which is what most people care about, and plenty of people (if you care to check the major databases) seem to think the old anime is better.

Nope, not for me. I love the manga and was one of the many many people who was annoyed by how the old series ruined the stories and characters. So canon (=Togashi's HxH) is important to me. If 1999 series fans didn't come in the new series' boards to constantly complain how it deviated from 1999 series (=thus it got wrong), such comparison probably won't even being brought out in the first place. I thought Toto started doing it after so many complains and whinings from the old fans.

[chikkychappy]

Originally Posted by Daisuki-chan

In the end canonness is really a distraction, too, from the alternative point of goodness, which is what most people care about, and plenty of people (if you care to check the major databases) seem to think the old anime is better.

exactly. execution matters a lot more. most would care more about the experience of watching over a laundry list of differences. so misinterpreting the role toto's comparisons play is basically artificially creating a situation where the tiniest details are so important, while aspects more critical in making an anime adaptation a good one takes the back seat. in reality though, the priorities (details vs exeuction) are reversed for most people.

that's why while toto's comparisons are very informative, they are still limited because it does not take into account the more important aspect of execution. not to mention the fact that bias can still cloud what is supposed to be a straight-forward comparison of events (daisuke-chan discussed this already), and the sprinkling of opinions here and there (even if they are identified as such).

again, this has nothing to do with not appreciating her posts. i do. but this does not mean i can just be amenable to anything.

personally, i have no problem with toto doing the comparisons (i have some issues with the content and interpretation, but never mind that). i just hope that at the very least, we are clear where the comparisons stand on the grand scheme of things.

Originally Posted by Dengar

I'm still unsure why you feel so threatened by this person though. They are merely stating some facts, and their opinion based on those facts. It's not like their opinions threaten your reality or anything.

it's not exactly with toto alone, but the misconceptions that will arise (which might evolve into facts if absolutely no one will speak out their reservations) by misunderstanding the context of the comparisons.

good for you because you can appreciate toto's work while understanding its scope & limitations, but some fans consider it gospel truth.

They'd rather that people knew that her comparisons were full of opinions in various ways instead of deferring to or leaning towards them due to reasons of effort, quantity, positivity towards the new anime, or whatever is swaying their minds.

qft

[Dengar]

Anyway, if anything, toto seems biased towards the manga, not the 2012 series.

[Toto y Moi]

Originally Posted by Daisuki-chan

Anyway, she did PM me with what she probably had posted before. I'll just say (regarding the matter I brought up, and not tangents) that her link to a manga page was interesting, and gives support to the idea that Illumi doing that in the old anime is plausible, at least in a sense beyond the Lucky Ch-arms effect Hisoka did early in this anime.

This is completely untrue. If anything, what I posted shows that it's completely impossible for Illumi to have done what he did in the 1999 series. If anyone else would like what I've said to be PMed to them, just send me a message.

Originally Posted by Daisuki-chan

I personally consider it to be filler with more depth than I had considered before viewing her link (even if it was meant to be against the filler in whatever way), something the old anime did pretty well at times (and like I mentioned in the past I don't view the new anime's filler to have any worth).

Regarding it being

Spoiler for Old anime stuff + various HxH manga stuff:

a basic ability, I should clarify that what I meant by that is any ability anyone, given enough training and talent, could gain. So all those named abilities, even including more exotic combinations and uses of them. I'm not convinced one way or the other that what the link shows/what the old anime's Illumi did is really a special ability for manipulation or manipulation or emission users, as those are neighboring categories. A lot of abilities in those categories are similar, and there's obviously no more depth available to consider what Illumi did. It's also known from for example Kastro that you can develop special abilities outside of your category(-ies), so basic abilities also being that way isn't much of a stretch. However, on the other hand something possibly very suited to one category doesn't seem quite like a basic ability in the sense I meant. It would come down to mechanics for me, but there isn't anything to go on for Illumi. So I think it's possible he could do it as a sort of basic ability that his character might be good at, due to his specific talents.

Toto y Moi can tell me why emission/transmutation was the only way for this to happen in her opinion if she wants.

This is something that, ironically, can only be explained through the manga version of Hisoka vs. Kastro--which was removed in the 1999 series. I'll PM you another response.

Originally Posted by Daisuki-chan

bbsbwk, the 1999 version obviously isn't the canon one should refer to for matters of canonness, by definition. However, and I've gone into this elsewhere, a purely quantitative (i.e. error counting) method is useless to normal people for determining canonness. Each change has potentially (and likely; statistically certain) differing weight, including from person to person. How canon each version is thus comes down to opinion. This is why people can 100% legitimately not feel as Toto y Moi does on this new anime being more or even especially canon, regardless of the raw quantity of facts she lists. It's not proof of anything except that those individual facts exist (and that's ignoring fact selection (including pictures), which is inherently biased due to the fact that one can't notice everything, and one can't consider everything important enough to mention (or notice!), alongside fact interpretation, both of which are issues many may have with her comparisons...). Lots of things she says don't have the same effect on others as they do on her, and she's not one iota more correct than them (of course, if anyone remembers something wrongly their opinion loses apparent weight, although there possibly is more that they just don't remember now, depending on the sort of opinion being held), for opinions can not trump each other. Opinions (i.e. reactions based on preferences) are inherently arbitrary.

Probably the main reason people criticize her comparisons, including in an unhelpful manner, is that her perspective is often apparently given more weight than those of others by those who haven't seen the old anime, while being quite apparently in favor of the new anime by many people's perspectives. In the end canonness is really a distraction, too, from the alternative point of goodness, which is what most people care about, and plenty of people (if you care to check the major databases) seem to think the old anime is better. Obviously no quantity of opinions is more valid than another, but when one version is typically "winning" over the other alongside being preferred by someone, that one won't enjoy people who don't know the old anime just taking her word for it that these things are what's important, and in this way, and are to be interpreted this way and not that (for example

Spoiler for Comparison discussion:

Hisoka wearing Geretta's hat (in the old anime)

earlier being "meant" to be cute; I personally consider it to be dark humor instead), etc. They'd rather that people knew that her comparisons were full of opinions in various ways instead of deferring to or leaning towards them due to reasons of effort, quantity, positivity towards the new anime, or whatever is swaying their minds.

When I measure a change as "major" or "minor," I'm referencing the potential harm it has for future events. Something being "canon" is not something that comes down to personal opinion; especially since I'm comparing the animated versions to the manga.

If you've noticed anything that I haven't mentioned, then list those points here. And I'd like to combat your notion that "she's not one iota more correct than them"; often times, yes, I am more correct than others.

Also,

"her perspective is often apparently given more weight than those of others by those who haven't seen the old anime"

This is an assumption on your part. You have no idea what experience commentators have had with any of the series. The fact that you could even say something like:

"In the end canonness is really a distraction, too, from the alternative point of goodness, which is what most people care about, and plenty of people (if you care to check the major databases) seem to think the old anime is better. Obviously no quantity of opinions is more valid than another, but when one version is typically "winning" over the other alongside being preferred by someone, that one won't enjoy people who don't know the old anime just taking her word for it that these things are what's important"

only proves a lack of objectivity on your part. You're making the argument "well, tons of other people think that the old anime series is better, therefore it is." I'm not arguing which one is better, I'm showing which one is closer to the manga. Moreover, you're using the fan response to an already completed series; the Madhouse version is only 22 episodes in.

Just keep watching it. There's a reason as to why Madhouse felt the series important enough to start over from the beginning; Hunter x Hunter is building towards a lot of different things at this point.

[Dengar]

Seriously less bullshit talk and more HxH talk.

So how about that Miku huh? Scary dog.

[ookamigirl]

They arrived at the gates.
Mike is a nice doggy ^^"
Guess getting through the front door is not easy this time.
The guard was nice though.
This is gonna be quite a trial for them as Killua's friends, but as hunters too.

[orion]

Originally Posted by Dengar

Seriously less bullshit talk and more HxH talk.

So how about that Miku huh? Scary dog.

In a way, I thought he was cute with the purple hair. Big , muscular, business-like guard dog.

What caught my attention was the emphasis on going thru the test gate. How does Mike know who went thru the gate?

[Clarste]

Originally Posted by orion

In a way, I thought he was cute with the purple hair. Big , muscular, business-like guard dog.

What caught my attention was the emphasis on going thru the test gate. How does Mike know who went thru the gate?

He watches the gate. Seems pretty simple to me.

[Reckoner]

I watched the 1999 series scene with Mike for comparison and then I felt that both anime 1999 and 2011 failed to capture the essence of the manga in that scene. The 1999 lacked build up, the 2011 could've made Mike look a little scarier. So yeah manga wins, though for this scene I liked 2011 better.

[bbsbwk]

Anyway still seems to me the 'criticisms' came off feeling threatened that people who're new to HxH are gonna get swayed by Toto y Moi's comparison post to form a biased against the old series. I didn't see any new fan voicing anything like that. I understand it could come off this way, but then old fans were biased as hell themselves as well for coming from seeing the old series first (and accepted it as the canon as most didn't read the manga) in a younger age where everything would seems more thrilling and fresh. And I've seen old fans crapped over a place where new fans just wanna talk about the new episode of the week. So I'm glad for a voice here to settle 'score' on whether the new adaptation got it 'wrong' or not (especially being judged against the old flawed version who deviated a lot from the manga).

And yes I totally agree with someone who saids that the comparison are biased toward the manga.

[chikkychappy]

I just watched the 1999 version of ep 21, and I prefer 2011 this time. 1999 had its usual great execution, but the story was too meandering and lacked focus. Meanwhile, 2011 had a better sense of purpose coupled with very good execution.

[Daisuki-chan]

Originally Posted by bbsbwk

The 1999 series often didn't feel like Togashi's HxH as the old director stamped his own flavors, dark color palette and moralistic tone all over it.

Your opinion, which you're free to have, of course. For me it was HxH in the ways that I cared about a lot more than this one is. As the level (i.e. weighting) of canonness is subjective there's no real counter to my position. Beyond that I didn't even have some of your reactions (if not in polarity especially so in intensity), so they can't apply to me very well.

Originally Posted by Toto y Moi

This is completely untrue. If anything, what I posted shows that it's completely impossible for Illumi to have done what he did in the 1999 series. If anyone else would like what I've said to be PMed to them, just send me a message.

I said (when replying to your PM) it's plausible, not that he's known to be able to, but the link you gave me that I edited into my old post shows that it is possible (and beyond that Illumi should be suited to such things!). I then compared it to Lucky Ch-arms, and the latter lost to me. So what are you saying is untrue here? Whatever it may be, if it's just my opinion it can be untrue for you all you want, but that doesn't make it countered, as it's my opinion for myself. I hope you won't argue against the subjective.

Originally Posted by Toto y Moi

This is something that, ironically, can only be explained through the manga version of Hisoka vs. Kastro--which was removed in the 1999 series. I'll PM you another response.

You're welcome to, but I did read part that four (normal) times.

Originally Posted by Toto y Moi

When I measure a change as "major" or "minor," I'm referencing the potential harm it has for future events. Something being "canon" is not something that comes down to personal opinion; especially since I'm comparing the animated versions to the manga.

Firstly, the weight of a change from canon absolutely comes down to personal opinion. You didn't bother trying to disprove this in our other discussion, but feel free to try to here. Secondly, interpretations of facts are often important and also come down to personal opinion/bias/subjectivity/etc. Thirdly, your thoughts on how much "potential harm" something does are also obviously opinions. I never said that lists of facts didn't mean that those facts existed, but what they mean (how they can be interpreted by someone and how they could matter to someone) and how much it matters comes down to opinion. I know from talking to you in the past that we have very different opinions on what's major and minor in many cases. Unless you logically prove that your weighting is correct you have no basis for being "objective" for anything beyond stating raw facts (and that anything beyond includes interpretations). Beyond that fact selection is inherently biased, for the reasons I stated, none of which apply to you alone, but which are ultimately inevitable unless you're omniscient, have no preferences whatsoever, and recall absolutely everything relevant upon demand, on top of obviously trying your best to be objective.

Originally Posted by Toto y Moi

If you've noticed anything that I haven't mentioned, then list those points here. And I'd like to combat your notion that "she's not one iota more correct than them"; often times, yes, I am more correct than others.

And there it is. Look, I get that when people remember things wrongly their opinions aren't very useful, but that doesn't make your opinions anything special. Tell me why the opinions in my post from pages back that you...uh...combated unnecessarily are worth less than those of yours. You won't be able to, because in the end value judgements, interpretations, issues of quality, etc. are opinions, subjective, biased, etc. We're both 100% entitled to our opinions, and no amount of fact-listing by you overrides the opinions of others (I'll ignore opinions only based on single facts which themselves are false as it's a more complicated and useless discussion; my post didn't contain any of these anyway) in any way. You're not special at all, just like no one else is. Opinions can not be objectively correct, even if unopposed, and no matter how many (inherently subjective) reasons are given for them.

Originally Posted by Toto y Moi

Also,

"her perspective is often apparently given more weight than those of others by those who haven't seen the old anime"

This is an assumption on your part. You have no idea what experience commentators have had with any of the series. The fact that you could even say something like: only proves a lack of objectivity on your part. You're making the argument "well, tons of other people think that the old anime series is better, therefore it is." I'm not arguing which one is better, I'm showing which one is closer to the manga. Moreover, you're using the fan response to an already completed series; the Madhouse version is only 22 episodes in.

I said apparently, and I wasn't just talking for myself. It's pretty obvious that not everyone reading your comparisons actually watched through the episodes being compared while also having read through those chapters, though, so they won't have an experience like yours to draw upon to make their own opinions. Trusting your opinions to have a high level of relevance to them is thus risky at best, unless their opinions tend to be formed through or overrided by groupthink (there are unfortunately people like this around).

I explained the statistical relationship of opinions held between the old and new anime, and went to great lengths to explain that they're still just opinions (majority doesn't win with opinions, just as your effort doesn't win either). You're twisting what I said for no good reason. I had to explain why it's especially troubling to some that many appear to be following you faithfully without really knowing things for themselves; statistically you're probably wrong (in the overall opinion of new > old anime) for them. Granted, each person can decide for themselves how likely they are to be like you in particular vs. the masses, but in the end most people will be like the masses, and they won't know that you're right (or wrong) for them unless they experience things for themselves (unless they're groupthinkers, in which case nothing matters anyway, but groupthink can itself be worthy of scorn for many), making any serious level of trust in your conclusions simply quite risky. The old anime must have been better to most people than you seem to think it is, and/or the new anime's issues that you consider "minor" or to be excusable, etc. must mean more to many people than they do to you. You are not a highly representative person, not that I am, either, on particulars or in terms of opinion intensity, but beyond our shared issues you are also in the minority polarity here. That's just risky to trust in, and why shouldn't people know this?

Your comparisons are not worthless, but if you prize the objectivity you claim I lack you should list the facts in one section (after mentioning, every single comparison post, that fact and picture selection is inherently subjective and imperfect), I recommend with numbering to ease later personal responses to them, and list your interpretations (be careful to understand what's a fact and what's an interpretation!) and opinions in another section, which should be titled something like "Personal Interpretations and Opinions". If you really want your comparison posts to be looked upon as objective I highly recommend going to the effort of doing this. Interleaving your opinions and interpretations among them (alongside being rather unwilling to entertain the opinions and interpretations of others, in my personal experience) while not mentioning the limits to your objectivity (remember, fact selection (i.e. what one mentions, and which specific pictures are used, etc.) is inherently biased!) makes it hard to believe that you're objective. You've said some pretty crazy things elsewhere to me, so you should probably consider this a lost cause for me, but maybe you can gain some new fans or more perceived legitimacy if you improve your efforts towards the goal of objectivity.

Originally Posted by Toto y Moi

Just keep watching it. There's a reason as to why Madhouse felt the series important enough to start over from the beginning; Hunter x Hunter is building towards a lot of different things at this point.

I don't have any reason to care what Madhouse supposedly felt (your interpretation here is subjective, and honestly is statistically impossible as a full explanation for things; Madhouse and its employees in the end still work for money, which is thus inherently involved in their decisions to do things). I will keep watching, but I'm not sure what you expect will happen if I do. It's not like your opinion is objectively right and I would thus be sucked heavily towards it over time. Madhouse has had plenty of time already, and I waited quite a while before making my opinion post pages back or rating it. They're going to have to change some things seriously to improve drastically, i.e. towards the huge amount higher that the old anime and the manga are to me. Even if that were to happen, actually reaching that level (not overall, but on a regular basis for new episodes) is a great deal further away for me.

[Daniel E.]

I am gonna have to ask people to focus the discussion on the show and not on the people posting here. Any more of this "conspiracy theories" will result in warnings and infractions.

Several posts have already been deleted.