[Game] Umineko - Spoilers, Theories, Interpretations

[jjblue1]

Well, there's definitely plentiful of hints Lion is a boy in the manga also.
And in Ep 5 Natsuhi was under the belief the baby was a male.

Interesting enough though Sayo, as far as we know, was never told her biological sex was male.

So if one wants to stay in denial he can assume that she just ended up believing that was the case, therefore expected that Lion, who's basically her dream, her fantasy and her opposite, was a male.

By the time End was written it was impossible to prove if Sayo's belief she was originally a boy was true or not so whoever wrote End (Tohya or Ikuko or both) went along with it and had Natsuhi thinking at the baby as a boy.

Said this I think that, since Ryukishi took the time to give us plenty of extra hints about Lion being a boy and no extra hint at all about Sayo being biologically female, is WAY more likely that Sayo was actually biologically male.

But as Ryukishi isn't ready yet to open this particular catbox the other cat can still exist inside it. It's just that I wouldn't recommend betting on it.

[Levani]

So if one wants to stay in denial

Shots fired or this was not directed at me? Either way, I'll let you know that I am not in denial. I do believe Yasu was born a male. All I am saying is that there was never a direct confirmation that Yasu was born male, only implied and hinted at. You can arrive at that reasoning through the hints from the story, however, there is no Red Truth of "Yasu was born a male", unless there is some sort of confirmation that I missed from Ryukishi. If you can show me something like that, I will eat my words.

[jjblue1]

Originally Posted by Levani

Shots fired or this was not directed at me? Either way, I'll let you know that I am not in denial. I do believe Yasu was born a male. All I am saying is that there was never a direct confirmation that Yasu was born male, only implied and hinted at. You can arrive at that reasoning through the hints from the story, however, there is no Red Truth of "Yasu was born a male", unless there is some sort of confirmation that I missed from Ryukishi. If you can show me something like that, I will eat my words.

Nope, sorry, it was mostly directed at me. I honestly believe Ryukishi meant for Yasu to be born as male... but since I think Sayo wanted to be a girl I like for that possibility to exist. Not that it can do to her any good as the manga basically told us she died, so if she was mistaken in her belief she'll never know. *sighs*

Oh well, at least I can hope she and Battler will be reincarnated and will have another chance at reaching a happy ending... my sort of happy ending just to be clear, not Ryukishi's. :P

And you're right, there's no direct confirmation. Ryukishi was even asked about it and refused to give an answer. That's why I can say the catbox still stand and ultimately everyone is free to believe what he wants.

Logically though the answer has to be the one for which there were hints so the male one wins (especially considering Bern is somewhere sulking so no miracles will happen).

It's interesting though how Ryukishi didn't want to open this particular catbox when he opened so many. Maybe it has something to do with Japanese culture? I admit I'm totally clueless about how Japanese culture would act in this regard, if it's a taboo topic or not.

[Mali]

The best hint is if the police confiscate the mail bottles and make a DNA test. The case was closed fairly early, right?
But it's possible to find out Sayo's sex using scientific methods unless Sayo was aware of that and put on gloves. But Ryukishi, as you said, wants it to be a cat box.

[haguruma]

Originally Posted by Mali

And Tohya also wrote Ep3 and 4?

Well, it was always clear that the Hachijôs wrote Alliance (EP4) but it always kind of bothered me (and other people here too) why exactly Banquet would be written by them if they knew the answer, since it was always a question of how much Battler actually knew.
With the new information it would actually make sense, if Battler for the rest of his conscious time believed Eva to be the culprit. This would then be filtered through Tohya's broken memory and, even with the information from Confession, end up as a theory in which Eva highjacked the game. It'll still end up not making sense at certain points, since people who shouldn't have ended up dead died.

Was Ep7 (I mean the VN version) now written by Tohya from his memory or by Ikuko?

I think EP7 is more like an outsiders attempt to set everything together. The game is created on order of Featherine (Ikuko) and by Bern (the uncaring reader), without any further aid of Battler (Tohya).

I didn't like the idea that Sayo throw her confession with the other bottles in the ocean. Wiki says she found it by roadside.
What if ... Tohya is the personification of the bottle mail?

Narratively it wouldn't make much sense.
Ikuko shows the message bottle to him a good time after they've become acquainted with each other. The fact alone that she is using the internet shows that at least 5-6 years must have passed since 1986.
A) There was no direct trigger for Tohya to "become" that message bottle so late.
B) The bottle also contains information that (according to chapter 37) was not given to Battler; like the truth about Sayo's body, Kinzo's transgressions, etc.

Why did Tohya try to make Sayo being the culprits in most in his stories? Dedicate them to Sayo? Were we supposed to solve them with Kyrie as the murderer?

It actually makes a lot of sense now (I think jjblue already broke it down a little).
EP1 and 2 are the actual stories written by Sayo, so they would have her as the culprit.
EP3 would be Tohya's first jumbled attempt to recreate the events, maybe even with Ikuko using Confession (since we know she mentions tricks from Banquet in there). Subconsciously he might remember that "Sayo did not murder anyone" and "a fight broke out over the inheritance" so that (fueled by Eva's survival) creates the plot around Eva-Beatrice.
EP4 is him dismissing it, on the grounds that too many discrepancies krept into that first attempt (shown to us by the impossible murder of Nanjo, as well as the fact that Eva was not EVA). Here he uses the plot of the witch as the murderer, but does neither remember the promise, nor is he able to piece together elements like the why.

Did Ikuko influenced Ep3 and 4?

I would be surprised if she didn't. She and Featherine are portrayed as total Rokkenjima nuts who absolutely want to have their theory proven right until she suddenly changes her mind during a conference (which I still hope will be explained in the last chapter next month)

Originally Posted by Mali

The best hint is if the police confiscate the mail bottles and make a DNA test. The case was closed fairly early, right?
But it's possible to find out Sayo's sex using scientific methods unless Sayo was aware of that and put on gloves. But Ryukishi, as you said, wants it to be a cat box.

Well yes, technically a lot of things COULD be done in any fictional universe, but to a certain degree we also have to accept that this was not the way the author intended, so it didn't happen that way.
Also, why would the police take DNA samples if all but one survivor are dead, and said survivor doesn't seem to tell the story of a murder case. DNA sampling in the 80s would have been quite expensive and not very refined yet.

[RedKey]

D-Did... Did Ryukishi really just casually open the catbox?
Holy smothering mother of mackerels. I never thought this day would arrive.

[Bluemail]

Originally Posted by RedKey

D-Did... Did Ryukishi really just casually open the catbox?
Holy smothering mother of mackerels. I never thought this day would arrive.

I dreamt it was going to be in this chapter or told by Touya, and I'm glad it is finally happening. Thanks for the translation, haguruma, though I really want to see it in images. Amazing chapter, confirming EP7 Tea Party as Prime and Battler's true character. It even shows that the October 6th boat scene happened about exactly as we were told, giving Battler and Sayo a beautiful moment together before the end. And the chapter itself is called Umineko no Naku Koro ni, how awesome is that?

Looks like it follows what I thought the most likely possibility would be. Beatrice survived Kyrie's gun, met Battler and led him to the underground tunnel. I didn't know the details, but people running around at different times and drawing their own conclusions explains a lot of the confusion about the truth. We also finally see how Eva got the head's ring.

I'm also glad we got to see the real Battler before the end. I didn't doubt his nature too much, as I interpret Meta-Battler as Touya's hidden memory of who he was and the bond to his family. Sayo directly confessing to Battler also gives credibility to the truth he reached and explains his behaviour in the October 6th segment.

It's sad how Sayo hated her body so much that even after gaining Battler's forgiveness and encouragement to live she decided to die without telling anyone. Actually, could Sayo confessing most of the truth but still being afraid of revealing the state of her body also be a nod to how Ryuukishi initially wanted people to reach their own conclusion about that?

What surprised me the most was the addition of the final scene. I always loved the cyclical nature of Umineko's story, that Battler and Beatrice sinking to the sea together at the end of EP8 leads to their meeting in Purgatorio in EP1 and I'm so happy it is shown this explicitly. It also gives merit to the idea that Meta-Beatrice and Meta-Battler were always the true souls of the two from Rokkenjima Prime, and not just interpretations, which I appreciate a lot.

So, will we ever get an Umineko Hou with these scenes added to EP8, or do we have to do it ourselves? Perhaps Umineko's 10th anniversary in 2017? I also hope that brings a new anime adaptation by an actually competent studio and director, haha.

[Levani]

I also hope that brings a new anime adaptation by an actually competent studio and director, haha.

*whispers* Studio Ufotable...

[Megumi Kitagawa]

I'm reading through the manga and some parts of the EP8 VN, but I'm lost on a few technical issues.

1) Battler received no damaging effects from Featherine's cats because, apparently, they can't interfere with Battler's tale. But didn't Lambdadelta interfere with the tale by attacking Bernkastel, who shares the game master title in EP8? And even if Lambdadelta gets counted as being part of the tale, why would Featherine be allowed to kill her and yet her cats not be able to do anything against Battler? Is it simply a "it's Featherine" thing along with her backing down, so Battler and Ange could actually win in the end without it looking that ridiculous?

2) Featherine says that only game masters can weave tales on their game board, but the characters are well outside of Battler's territory, so why would the game board extend all of the way to the City of Books? The games seem to just be set on Rokkenjima in this Episode, so I'm confused on that part.

3) And that leads me into this question (which may sound stupid ): the characters are the meta versions when they're in the City of Books, right? And during the party as well? Because the transition seems a bit foggy with them escaping to the Golden Land and then going to the City of Books. The use of "game board" that I asked about in the first question and its extension to the City of Books that I asked about in the second question throws me off since it kind of introduces the possibility that EP8 is just one big game written by someone.

I guess these might be minor issues to think about, but I notice small things a lot of the time.

[jjblue1]

Originally Posted by Megumi Kitagawa

I'm reading through the manga and some parts of the EP8 VN, but I'm lost on a few technical issues.

1) Battler received no damaging effects from Featherine's cats because, apparently, they can't interfere with Battler's tale. But didn't Lambdadelta interfere with the tale by attacking Bernkastel, who shares the game master title in EP8? And even if Lambdadelta gets counted as being part of the tale, why would Featherine be allowed to kill her and yet her cats not be able to do anything against Battler? Is it simply a "it's Featherine" thing along with her backing down, so Battler and Ange could actually win in the end without it looking that ridiculous?

Featherine is a superior entity. Very likely she could have trashed Battler with a mere blink, even if she wasn't in his tale.

Let's call Battler's tale 'Ange's choice', Battler is the writer of 'Ange's choice'.
Bern is also writing a parallel version of 'Ange's choice'.
Featherine is the writer of the tale in in which Battler and Bern both write 'Ange's choice'.
In short both Bern and Battler become characters from Featherine's perspective and therefore she tops them both.

Featherine's cats though are mere characters of other tales. They aren't at Featherine's level and since they come from other tales they can't influence Battler's tale. He's just... not writing them in his own tale.

Lambda instead was written in 'Ange's choice'. She's a character of that tale and, in addition to this, she'a also a witch probably on an even footing with Bern and Battler. Not only she can interact directly as a character in the tale but I guess she also has the power to... bug the authors of the tale. Think at her as someone who's actively trying to stop Bern from writing her version of Ange's 'choice'... like someone who's trying to pull away from her all the paper (well, Lambda insist she's paper after all)... or giving her a writer block.

Again she's no match for Featherine because to Featherine she's also just a character.

Also if you look at the manga is interesting to see how the Featherine that defeat Lambda can be seen as a self insertion of the writer Featherine that's writing the story.

Originally Posted by Megumi Kitagawa

2) Featherine says that only game masters can weave tales on their game board, but the characters are well outside of Battler's territory, so why would the game board extend all of the way to the City of Books? The games seem to just be set on Rokkenjima in this Episode, so I'm confused on that part.

Take this as my wild guess as there's no official answer but I think that the whole situation is sort of similar to a crossover.
Battler and Ange were taken in another gameboard/story/whatever by Lambda, which is a character who can cross over freely (a voyager witch) but they were still weaving their own story, even if they were out of their gameboard/setting which was meant to end with Beato posing a question to Ange and Ange chosing one of the two doors. Whatever happened in between was just extra plot development.

At least that's my interpretation. There's not an official one as far as I know.

Originally Posted by Megumi Kitagawa

3) And that leads me into this question (which may sound stupid ): the characters are the meta versions when they're in the City of Books, right? And during the party as well? Because the transition seems a bit foggy with them escaping to the Golden Land and then going to the City of Books. The use of "game board" that I asked about in the first question and its extension to the City of Books that I asked about in the second question throws me off since it kind of introduces the possibility that EP8 is just one big game written by someone.

I guess these might be minor issues to think about, but I notice small things a lot of the time.

We don't really know.
I prefer to consider the magic party as meta as well because otherwise this would make the party fantasy, therefore something that never happened but that was just an embellishment of the tale, and this is a bit sad... but well, it can fit.

Still, I like to think that at the end of Ep 6, when all the characters reached the golden land, they were all turned into meta and therefore could take part to the party as their meta versions.

[haguruma]

Okay, just to add how I actually interpreted these elements:

Originally Posted by Megumi Kitagawa

1) Battler received no damaging effects from Featherine's cats because, apparently, they can't interfere with Battler's tale. But didn't Lambdadelta interfere with the tale by attacking Bernkastel, who shares the game master title in EP8?

Lambda and Bern's battle is not necessarily about the gameboard, while Battler and Bern's is.
If we strip away all the fanciness again then it comes down to this. Both Bern and Battler are authors of the same tale at this point. Battler is trying to write a story about how his family wasn't so bad, while Bern is trying to write a story about how they were monsters, and apparently they are working on the same script...a co-authored tale so to say.
But Lambda, while on the same level as Bern and Battler, is not actively writing this tale. When she is engaging in battle with Bern, she is basically just keeping her from continuing to write on and argue about the story at hand. She is the distracting friend that comes over to your house and won't let you write.

The cats don't have any effect on Battler, because as outsiders to the story that Battler and Bern are writing, they have no immediate effect on his tale. They could land a lucky hit, but overall Battler's knowledge of his tale trumps theirs.

And even if Lambdadelta gets counted as being part of the tale, why would Featherine be allowed to kill her and yet her cats not be able to do anything against Battler?

It's because in this case Featherine acts as "the author of the tale of life". In Umineko's universe our whole world is fiction to a bigger universe (that of the witches), but the witches universe itself is yet again mere fiction to the realm of the gods.

2) Featherine says that only game masters can weave tales on their game board, but the characters are well outside of Battler's territory, so why would the game board extend all of the way to the City of Books?

It isn't. The City of Books merely becomes the battleground for the argument about the gameboard.

3) And that leads me into this question (which may sound stupid ): the characters are the meta versions when they're in the City of Books, right?

it kind of introduces the possibility that EP8 is just one big game written by someone.

I wouldn't differentiate between meta-version and pieces so much. Basically the meta-characters are used as pieces and then limited in their function depending on what the script requires of them. Like actors.
Every character on the Rokkenjima stage is a meta-being in and of itself (which shows by them being aware of what's happened to them at certain points), but while they are "in-character" so to speak, at least the human characters don't show any knowledge of it because the story wouldn't allow them to.

Twilight of the golden witch is, in a way, yet another tale written by somebody, but EP8 also pictures the struggle of Ange in a symbolic way...so make of that what you want.

EDIT
I just stumbled on another interview session with Ryukishi that was being held on a US-convention a while ago, and he was actually asked about both Rosatrice and Sayo's transgender identity. His answers, while not necessarily groundbreaking, still shed some light into discussions from a while ago again.
You can find a summary and the video here.

Just to add a few things, since the translator (while probably doing her best) is not that well versed in high-level Japanese, so some of her translations left me a little wanting.
When asked about Rosatrice he said that he liked taking popular theories he could to throw people off their game. He did specifically refer to it as a theory though.

When asked about whether Sayo could be viewed as being transgender, his answer was a little bit more concrete than the translation conveyed, I think. He said that, since this element is part of the core of the mystery that makes up Umineko, he is unable to answer this question, but he considers the transgender-theory undoubtetly fascinating.

[Megumi Kitagawa]

I'd like to thank you both for answering, and it'd be quite a bit to quote, so excuse me for not doing so.

1) I figured that that was the reason why they weren't able to affect him, and it makes sense with what Featherine told us. I didn't pay much attention to details like that the first tie around, but when I saw it my second go at it, I a bit lost with the meta(-meta?)fictional aspects that Ryukishi had going there. Some of EP8's scenes had me in a bit of a tizzy, so I guess I should start looking at it from the point of view of Ryukishi instead of just a regular reader.

2) Okay, I guess I can see that this is up to interpretation. I don't know. I kind of like my WMG of a mystery person writing the entirety of EP8. As unsupported as it may be.

3) II suppose what you both say makes sense. I guess I was looking for confirmation from others, so I would just blindly jump to conclusions that might've ended up being incorrect.

Once again, I thank you both for your posts. getting different views is always helpful.

And thank you for the interview, haguruma!

[TheSoreika]

Ok, I am pretty sure this has been went over or something but I wanted to ask this question. In a past stream I did, I notice Eva saying something about silver spoons and poison. I brought it up with person I am reading with during the stream and he laughed it off. So I am going to ask here. Was that relevant to the adults being drugged/poisoned in that Episode and other Episodes? I don't recall reading about it in the manga nor seeing it in the anime. But it stood out to me that they stopped to mention silver spoons are used to detect poison in tea and tea is prepared by Ghoda but delivered normally by Shannon. Maybe I am over analyzing but am I right or was he right and I am over thinking it? Also thanks everyone for the replies and I did read All of Goat reading seacats. I will keep there thoughts in mind while developing my own I like how umineko is technically done but there is always new things to think about.

[jjblue1]

Natsumi Kei has written something about Umineko in her blog. Google translate made a mess of it but I've the feeling it means she has finished drawing Umineko? So this month we really had the last chapter? It's just... it feels surreal Umineko is going to end...

Spoiler for Natsumi Kei's words:

眼精疲労頭痛と舌炎の灼熱地獄と戦いつつ、最終回の原稿を脱稿しました。
あとは最終チェックのみ！
というところで仕事場のパソコンが反乱し出して笑ってるところです。
本当お疲れさまでした。
07thの皆さま、関わってくださったアシさんの皆さん、編集さんに心から感謝！
まだなんの実感もわかなくて、また来月も普通に夏海組召集しそうな気がしちゃうんだけど、
家に帰るときっと虚無感に襲われるのであろう。
あとは原稿梱包して、出して。
今月中にまったりコミックス作業して。
そしたら本当に終了です。
がんばった。
ありがとうみんな。
ありがとうわたしたち。

Originally Posted by TheSoreika

Ok, I am pretty sure this has been went over or something but I wanted to ask this question. In a past stream I did, I notice Eva saying something about silver spoons and poison. I brought it up with person I am reading with during the stream and he laughed it off. So I am going to ask here. Was that relevant to the adults being drugged/poisoned in that Episode and other Episodes? I don't recall reading about it in the manga nor seeing it in the anime. But it stood out to me that they stopped to mention silver spoons are used to detect poison in tea and tea is prepared by Ghoda but delivered normally by Shannon. Maybe I am over analyzing but am I right or was he right and I am over thinking it? Also thanks everyone for the replies and I did read All of Goat reading seacats. I will keep there thoughts in mind while developing my own I like how umineko is technically done but there is always new things to think about.

Well, as far as I can remember silver spoons weren't involved in the plot.
As for poison...
Maria died of either poison or overdose in Ep 4. In Ep 3 Eva likely poisoned/drugged Krauss and Natsuhi with her coffee (which has such a strong taste it might have covered up the taste of drug/poison) before killing them. In Ep 2 the adults were poisoned in the first twilight (confirmed by Ep 8 manga version).

Anyway, due to all this, poison/drug was definitely involved in the murders so if you want you can see it as a hint.

[haguruma]

Originally Posted by jjblue1

Natsumi Kei has written something about Umineko in her blog. Google translate made a mess of it but I've the feeling it means she has finished drawing Umineko? So this month we really had the last chapter? It's just... it feels surreal Umineko is going to end...

Oh yes, did I totally forget to mention that?
This month (in 14 days) we'll get the last chapter of Umineko. It will have another full colour spread and will probably be a long one. I'm both excited and a little sad.

Btw. I decided to reread the manga, because of the new information the last chapter gave. Especially the part about the meta-parlour actually being intended as purgatory for Beato and Battler intrigued me. Especially EP3 is a really hard pill to swallow...I was so close to tears at some points.
Did anyone else btw notice that this makes EP3 a triple troll? It's Beato tricking Battler into believing her that she's good, all the while actually being good, and becoming evil again only to trick him into getting into the game proper again. I also love how obvious many of the things she says now are, while on a first read they were either just charming or confusing.

I do wonder though if the last chapter will come with any more reveals that weren't featured in the VN. Like how the writing process for the Hachijô's actually was etc.

[GreyZone]

I did some research recently... Do the official OSTs really not include any Dread of the Grave versions?

[GuestSpeaker]

Though I do wonder why she decided she couldn't just tell him why they were in purgatory, but then again when was Beato ever good with direct confrontation. It does throw a fun light on her whole "errrr, you have to accept my truth or it won't be truth and I can't be a witch" thing. Nice improv Beato.

Also, nice little characterisation of Tohya slipped into chapter 33. Bern to Battler, red truth:

"There exists not one confident in your life"

Poor Tohya. Though, this according to Ange this all takes place some time in 1998 anyway, so he was still a fair bit of a mess at that point.

[haguruma]

Originally Posted by GuestSpeaker

Though I do wonder why she decided she couldn't just tell him why they were in purgatory, but then again when was Beato ever good with direct confrontation.

Well, she does also say in chapter 37 that this will be their chance to challenge what they couldn't in their lifetime, the question of whether it was a witch or a human.
In a way it's a little selfishness on Beato's part. She wants to lead Battler to realize her, but she also wants to know if he would have managed to do so within her game.

Well that and being chained to the game.

[jjblue1]

Originally Posted by GuestSpeaker

Though I do wonder why she decided she couldn't just tell him why they were in purgatory, but then again when was Beato ever good with direct confrontation. It does throw a fun light on her whole "errrr, you have to accept my truth or it won't be truth and I can't be a witch" thing. Nice improv Beato.

Also, nice little characterisation of Tohya slipped into chapter 33. Bern to Battler, red truth:

"There exists not one confident in your life"

Poor Tohya. Though, this according to Ange this all takes place some time in 1998 anyway, so he was still a fair bit of a mess at that point.

I was under the impression that red referred to Ange and was tossed at her just in case the living Battler was someone else, as a way to obliterate any possible person Ange might hope would come to her rescue.

But well, it would be interesting if it was tossed at Battler/Tohya... though he should have Ikuko... shouldn't he?

Going on... I can't remember if it was said before but I'm starting to think that the present Ange received at the Halloween party was the pen she's holding in her hands in Chap 36. I wonder how she managed to acquire it, if Tohya actually sent it to her or if Eva wanted to hand it to her as a gift and Ange found it along with the diary or... no idea.

Also... We know that Lambda is the personification of sweets, and so far I thought she was the personification of the candy Beato handed to Maria and later to Ange but now I'm starting to wonder she might be the personification of the candy Maria handed to Battler and that he shared with Sayo (On Lambda's dress there's even a pumpkin and that candy was pumpkin shaped). It'll explain why Lambda is a Battler/Sayo shipper (see Tsubasa) opposed to Bern who's Ikuko's cat and has no interest to have Tohya being tied to Beatrice.

Last but not least I was thinking at the way Sayo went at it, by basically torturing Battler.

It's the sort of thing that I totally dislike but if one compares it with Ep 7, for Yasu Gaap/Beatrice is torturing her by making things disappear but, due to her, she learns how not to lose things. Through Umineko we also notice that there's quite big difference between Battler and Beatrice expecially early on. For Beatrice the pieces ARE just characters in a tale, for Battler they're real people. He's totally shocked by what Beatrice can do to them but because he reacts as if they were truly alive.
So yes, Yasu went at it in the totally wrong way but at least she was misguided and she had slightly good intentions... as she wanted to help him to remember... even if it's sort of weird how now her courage of telling him everything is faltering and she's sort of asking him to guess everything when in Prime she ended up tattling out almost everything.

But well, in Prime she killed herself because she was afraid he would discover about her body... so maybe she still wasn't confident enough he could accept her.

Though by now I'd like an explanation of what happened.

Basically chap 37 implied that Battler and Beato in the meta are the souls of the two of them. Does this mean... that Beatrice's soul died in Ep 5? So the Beatrice Battler recreated in Ep 6 is... what?
And then we've Clair who's aware of the 4 games Battler and Beatrice played (but not of the rest) and that finds him a despicable person because he couldn't remember in the meta... even if in Prime he did his damn best to save Sayo almost drowing himself?
I like to think at Clair as a personification of Confession but... I'm not sure. This though might explain why Clair is unaware of what happened in Prime and post game 4. Sayo 'created' her prior to Prime and she held the datas for the 4 games played (and possibly more) but not for Ep 5/6 who were created by different people with different ways (Ep 5 is a game without love and one Sayo wouldn't have written, Ep 6 doesn't have Sayo as the murderer and eveyrone accepts her ence she wouldn't have written that one either... I guess it's a game with too much love :P).

Oh well, let's hope chap 38 will clear things up since we're supposed to see Beatrice retrieving Battler...

[Mali]

I had the idea Erika and the Man of 19 years ago is a failed placement and recreation of Beatrice on the gameboard. She and he are the deputy of Beatrice, unintentionally assisting each other to frame Natsuhi. Erika and him would create Beatrice if you put love to them.