StarCraft 2

[Hooves]

Well, you can either contact iceman, KyuuSC, Ying, Hikari, or me (Hooves). Either one of us will invite you once you ask

[Nochgo]

I've made a SC2 group in an effort to get more people to join the AS clan, as well as make the process easier.

SC2 Group

[Chaos2Frozen]

Every time I start playing Starcraft II, I keep telling myself that I should really get a new computer.

Every time I stop playing Starcraft II, I go "Meh~"

[Wigwams]

To whom it may concern:

Today is Starcraft's 15 year anniversary. Playing a game (got it from arcade in NA, and 4v4 ranked in SEA) will award you with a feat of strength celebrating this occasion.

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/936...ctor-3_29_2013

[Hooves]

The AI when they are your partners is just awesome.

[Wigwams]

lol every worker turned into warhound.

[Flying Dagger]

A thor is actually an SCV with guns (look closely at the two).
A drone actually closely resembles a broodlord.
A probe is sorta like a carrier? Actually the protoss fatherships in the campaign is kind of like a probe...

[Hooves]

This is so amusing. Watching my "Warhounds" mining minerals as I'm Zerg.

[Kyuu]

Posted here for my own reference:

Spoiler:

Originally Posted by 85675422598

[li]Protoss's essential units [/li]
One of the things that any protoss learns is that there are certain units which are basically essential for your success. Be it collosi, HT, sentries you at one point in your gameplan will rely on these units for one thing or another. Now why is this such a weakness? Well simple, if you mess up your timing by 1 minute and don't have 3 collosi but only 2, well then you die. If you forget to build sentries in the early game, well then you die.

In combination with the fact that protoss cannot mass produce these units due to the extremely high gas cost + the fact that they usually come out of special structures (like the robot or stargate) this means that if you lose even one of these crucial units then you could potentially lose the game.

[li]Protoss timings[/li]
Protoss is a race that is for the vast majority most successful if the protoss player abuses certain key timings. We all know them, we all hate/love them, they are the builds that dominated the metagame at one point or the other. Builds such as the immortal sentry all-in in PvZ, the 1 base immortal all-in with 1 collosi to break forcefields in pvp, 2 base collosi all-in in PvT. These builds have dominated the metagame so long for a very specific reason, protoss is a race that gets incredibly strong once it has its essential units/upgrades out (like collosi or immortals/sentries) but completely falls apart once the unit's counter is on the field (vikings for collosi or infestors vs immortals&sentries)

The most successful protoss players have all been evidence of this undeniable fact, parting being famous for his immortal sentry all-in, MC and his gateway builds, Creator with his 3 base all-ins vs zerg. There have been almost zero macro based protoss out there because it is simply extremely hard to play macro protoss.
[li]Protoss harrasment[/li]
Protoss harassment has always had one consistency. It is extremely reliant on luck. Whether it be warp prisms getting sniped before they reach the base, proxy pylons being properly scouted by an active player or phoenixes/oracles/dts being shut down by a properly scouting terran/zerg. This is very different when compared to terran/zerg harassment. Zergs can use drops, ling runbys, mutalisk harassment and they will remain viable throughout the entire game even if you know they are coming ahead of time. On the other hand if you scout the proxy pylon for protoss, well then no more harassment at that base.
[li]Protoss's inability for a comeback[/li]
We've all heard of that one game where a sc2 player was able to come back from an atrocious position and was able to win the game through superior micro/macro, or some amazing multitasking. However we also have to notice one small detail. This never happens to protoss. NEVER. Terrans can come back with mules and some amazing drop play, zerg can get an amazing engagement and completely destroy an army or get a lucky runby which destroys their opponent. But what can protoss do? Dt harassment? How many times have you seen a pro protoss come back with DT harassment?
[li]Protoss margin for error[/li]
Protoss's margin for error is almost completely non existent. You didn't put a zealot on hold position? You accidentally lost your scouting observer/initial probe? You missed a single forcefield? Your tech got delayed for a minute? Your collosi get sniped before the engagement? GG. There are so many little mistakes that protoss can do that simply leads to a complete death for the protoss. Protoss does not have the mobility nor the ability to remake all their key units so as soon as you lose that one important unit advantage. Boom. You are dead.

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/8568382003

[Flying Dagger]

I do not completely agree with that is said in the post. It feels like a circlejerk led by someone with only a single dimensional approach to the various matchups.

@timings
Take for example, the part which says

but completely falls apart once the unit's counter is on the field

this is, imo, completely wrong. Ask terrans and zerg: they do not want to make vikings or corruptors. Vikings interfere with medivac production, a spire takes an eternity to build and corruptors, not only do they feel useless, cost a ton of mineral and gas while having only a very short range (it eats into the bank which is what zerg players rely on).

Protoss players who aim for a more macro oriented style often win through tech switches (colossi <> templar tech). Vikings are pretty bad vs HT/archons, while ghosts melt easily to the colossi's laser attacks. It is possible for a protoss to have quite a scary army ("death ball") late game if somehow left unchecked: your clump of vikings will quickly fall to the assault of stalkers+storms before accomplishing their duty of taking down enemy colossi.

Such tech switch are often seen with zerg players as well: ZvP tend to open roach heavy, then a mutalisk techswitch is used to gain map dominance/force a base trade.

Most matchup relies on certain timings: such a medivac timings, 1/1 with stim, stephano's quick 200 supply roach army in his "earlier days" (during the time when SG open fall slightly out of fashion), etc. Lately zergs have been doing more early roach timing attacks against terrans as well.

@harassment
medivac getting intercepted (although much less likely due to boosters in HotS) are still costly. One can argue that a warp prism is much "cheaper" than a medivac carrying 8 supply (10 supply total) full of terran units.

I think the warp prism is a great harassment tool esp in late game (recall the many PvZ late game matches where warp prisms can warp in an army of zlots vs the immobile BL infestors?). Early game the warp prism is also under appreciated by the masses: it can be used parting style to "bring back" weakened units (with enough APM it can essentially replace your twilight council and is a blink research for even your immortals), it can be used as a forward pylon, it can be used to wrap in units in a mineral line (or even DTs), it can be used to carry sentries to FF a ramp while blink stalkers blink into someone's main and cause loads of trouble...

In HotS protoss also gained the deadly oracle which probably need no introduction.

@Comeback
Its not just protoss, other races have a hard time "coming back". If a zerg loses his infestors in the WoL days, he is as good as dead. If a terran losses a critical amount of medivacs, he is also dead (rmb the medivac/viking vs colossi relationship). If a protoss losses his colossi, he is also pretty dead.

Terran bio (not mech: its high cost prohibits good come backs) is probably the strongest in "come back-ability", as drops/potential base trade can be used to keep a stronger opponent at bay while its numbers get replenished by 8-12 barracks, but still, you have to find a way to deal with colossi AND HTs if you get wiped out during a clash. Remember: your protoss opponent will be making colossi once again, throw in 3-4 HTs in the army, then flood the front lines with chargelots.

I should also add an analysis (I think from gretorp) in the very early days of WoL: protoss gateway units are pretty well rounded resource wise. When a terran goes bio: you will often see a large stockpile of gas, while zerg tends to stockpile a lot of minerals once you hit mid-late game. Protoss can always "effectively" use up their resources: as zlots and stalkers are mineral hvy while their core units are gas heavy.

@margin of error:
this also happens to everyone. I actually think the most error prone matchup is PvP (but since its a mirror matchup racial balance is out of question), as a single missed FF to a 4g is game changing. HotS has fixed that to certain degrees: giving the nexus cannon, a viable SG open, taking away the ability to warp units on high ground.

Other than that, errors such as, a mech terran getting caught by mutaling while unseiged, banelings getting demolished by tank shots, mutas eating widow mines, ghosts getting fed back, etc are all unforgiving.

[Archon_Wing]

Ah, battle.net forums for you. My race is always weaker than others.... If I win it's because I played flawlessly and brilliantly. If I lose, it's because my race has no margin of error, unlike the other side that screwed up 4534 times and came back anyways. I am a great player that would do better if I had just picked the chosen race.

Anyhow, below the pro/semi-pro/super high ranked ladder players levels, games usually boil down to two things:

- Mechanics (Macro)
- People fucking up

The grand challenge of Sc1/Sc2 has been fighting the interface, for 90% of players.

That tends to dilute the way we perceive the game.

[Terrestrial Dream]

So today in GSL there will be the ultimate group of death with Parting, Life, Innovation, and Flash. Probably gonna watch even though I have to stay up til 4am. This is going to be epic, arguably the best players for each race.

[Kyuu]

Hot dang. This Group of Death. That was nuts!

[Flying Dagger]

Woke up early to watch the games. Did not disappoint.


Life's dominated Parting in set 1: it was sooo back and forth but Parting keep making small mistakes (letting lings run in) which neutralized all the good FFs/probe blockage advantage he has gained.

Set 2 between Parting and Life was pure epicness. He held off that ling aggression sooo well, as if he has had a lot of practice vs that type of play in ladder. Anyone else would have died from that ling aggression.

The current state of PvZ reminds me a lot of WoL: you do not want to fight a drawn out game against a zerg. Parting seems very weak against ling harassment as well, he should use some sim city against that imo. Afterall he is well known for his pain train timing attacks.

Parting's forcefields in that last game were perfectly executed: they were so perfectly done as if an AI has placed them down... denying a flank, then just cutting off the right amount of lings, then separating the queens.... and finally that double time warp just made the attack picture perfect.

Parting will have to hang his head in shame if he fails to make it out of the group. Last person who toyed with a group of death (dongraegu) didn't even make it out. Parting talked so much smack too.

Innovation's games were great as well. As OPed as the new units are, it made TvT much much more exciting to watch than hour long marine tank stalemates.

[Terrestrial Dream]

As I was watching last match between Flash and Innovation, I had to wonder if mech is really viable in TvT. While Hellbat is great for drops and all, against bio army they seem to be weak because of their low range. Also the fact that bio army is able to produce faster rate makes them more viable.

Anyway its bit shame I fell a sleep and missed some of the matches. But overall it was great, I am disappointed that Flash did not make it through.

[Flying Dagger]

Hellbat drops are ever devastating early game. You can really see how innovation went into super turtle mode after getting raped by hellbat drops in game 1.

The 3rd game he was considerably ahead after the early harassment so he can really afford to turtle hard.

Medivac boost really changed the matchup: all of a sudden the bio force gains so much more mobility over the meching player.


Not sure about usage of hellbats vs bio. Hellbats tear them apart if they can get close, wonder how will a miax of hellion hellbats would do... I think hellions gives the meching play the mobility it lacked, while hellbats do a better job of acting as a buffer (but might not roast the marines as quickly). Good thing they are the same unit after a single upgrade.

Game 3 isn't the best judgement of mech vs bio. Innovation had flash pinned down from the start, which deny flash of a decent viking count to deny medivacs. Not sure if mech is good for whirlwind because of all the open spaces as well.

Unfortunately I was cheering for Parting (lol@smachtalk) and Innovation. I mean, back in broodwar you would never have guessed Bogus will knock Flash out of the premier league.

[Terrestrial Dream]

That is an interesting point, mix of Hellion and Hellbat. I would actually like to see this in a mech army.
I suppose one match isn't the best judgement, but marauder seems to counter hellbat rather easily. I would really like to try mech as tvt with only pure marine and tanks can get bit boring.

I actually like that Parting made it as well, after all he was the one who started this group. For him to backup his smack talk was awesome.

[Kyuu]

Holy cow, this freakin' cheese.

Spoiler:

[Terrestrial Dream]

lol, you can not cheese harder than that.

Speaking of cheese, Carbot's last week episode was about cheesing as well.

YouTube

https://youtu.be/gV-6dZ6knZg

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

[Ithekro]

Glitch plus cheese on top of cheese to the point were you dumbfound the other player is beyond cheese. At that point you have art.