Tipping

[Izayoi]

I tip according to quality of service. I do realize waiters don't get paid much so I at least will try leave a tip to feel better myself.

[Dragonbow0]

I tip 25% unless the serviced was garbage. My family is in the restaurant business, and servers have it shitty so if you can afford it dont be cheap.

[Cinocard]

Originally Posted by synaesthetic

What bizarro world do you live in?

Restaurant employees get paid jack shit. I used to work in the business.

Lol I don't know. That's what I see around my place. And by "high" I mean compare to other low wage jobs, like delivery, dish washer, etc.

[Gin]

Maybe there are a few places pay $10-$12 per hour but I doubt anyplace pays much more than that in California.

[Narona]

Originally Posted by Dragonbow0

I tip 25% unless the serviced was garbage. My family is in the restaurant business, and servers have it shitty so if you can afford it dont be cheap.

I still understand the concern of some people. It's like taking people hostage. Even if the service is bad, people have to tip, or next time the service could be even more bad.

So, the current system doesn't actually always require the waiters to do a good job, but it forces, in a way, the customers to tip them (even if it's only 5%) whatever the quality of the service.

[Ansalem]

Originally Posted by Narona

I still understand the concern of some people. It's like taking people hostage. Even if the service is bad, people have to tip, or next time the service could be even more bad.

So, the current system doesn't actually always require the waiters to do a good job, but it forces, in a way, the customers to tip them (even if it's only 5%) whatever the quality of the service.

On the other hand, for any place with costumer service that doesn't utilize tips, you are still paying money that goes to the employee for their service whether it is good or bad. The money is simply already built into the price of the product or service you are using.

[Narona]

Originally Posted by Ansalem

On the other hand, for any place with costumer service that doesn't utilize tips, you are still paying money that goes to the employee for their service whether it is good or bad. The money is simply already built into the price of the product or service you are using.

Depends. That solution might be better in one hand because the employee is clearly "paid" by the employer to provide a good service. In that case, if you complain to the employer, they might be, I think, more harsh with the waiter because it's them who pay him.

But on the other hand, it gives more power to the employer to put pressure on his employee. Asking him to always provide a perfect service because he's actually "paid" (the money that could be earned from the "tips" are included in the salary) for that.

So that solution might be better for the customer imo, but depending on the employer, not so much for the employees.

[Gin]

Employers are very harsh with servers even with tips, because restaurants depend on repeat business. If a server is bad, they probably won't be working there very long.

[Narona]

Originally Posted by Gin

Employers are very harsh with servers even with tips, because restaurants depend on repeat business. If a server is bad, they probably won't be working there very long.

Then maybe the tips should be included in the bill. The customers would not have to wonder about how high the tip should be. That doesn't sound that bad. But I admit that some customers would be "annoyed" because not all of them are nice, and some don't tip even if the service is good. So those [bad] customers will go elsewhere, where the tips are not included in the bill.

[Tsuyoshi]

Originally Posted by Narona

Then maybe the tips should be included in the bill. The customers would not have to wonder about how high the tip should be. That doesn't sound that bad. But I admit that some customers would be "annoyed" because not all of them are nice, and some don't tip even if the service is good. So those [bad] customers will go elsewhere, where the tips are not included in the bill.

If people started to include tips in the bill, the restaurant would lose shitloads of customers because they would realize they have to pay more than they should for the meal they order. Even if the service is bad, they have to pay. Tipping encourages good service. Those who don't provide good service rightfully shouldn't get a tip.

[Vexx]

Actually... at some restaurants they DO include an automatic 15% gratuity in the bill.

You usually see these at "advantaged destinations" (big coastal resorts, too-many star eateries, or big cities). You'll also see that included if you bring a large group of people that requires special table arrangements. Often they are "hotel"/"resort"/"casino" restaurants. This is also common at large name restaurants that have moved past the "voluntary" communal tip pooling system (where the employer pools the tips, distributes them out equally, and then reports the "income" to the IRS).

Those places are usually one-time-only or not-in-the-first-place for me and I tell them why, often in writing. (one sign of getting older I suppose - I document and publicize my reaction to annoying behavior by businesses).

In that vein of speaking up loudly and because I just wrote a very crabby letter of complaint ... if you're visiting LA and want to stay in Tokyotown in a multi-star hotel - stay at Miyako Inn Hotel rather than Kyoto Grand Hotel. Service, quality, performance all sucked at the Kyoto Grand and at much higher prices ($160-$250). Of course, for a much better *price*, stay at the Best Western Dragon Inn (in nearby Chinatown ~$120) or even the Knights Inn (in a scary location but good security, wonderful/funny staff, good Japanese restaurant next door, and right on the bus route) for less than $70/night. The bus system does work well in downtown LA in the daytime but it sucks at night - use a cab then.

Also --- eat at the Daikokuya Ramen-ya on 1st St ... a beautiful ramen experience as close to Japan as you can get. Be prepared to wait in line for an hour and when the soup runs out they close for the day (very traditional).

[Gin]

I always tip, even if the service isn't great, because I feel kind of bad for basically forcing the waiters to be my slaves while I eat. I just feel awkward acting better than people, since I have worked in the food service industry and I know how shitty it makes someone feel when you talk down to them based on a job.

[Slick_rick]

Originally Posted by Vexx

Actually... at some restaurants they DO include an automatic 15% gratuity in the bill.

Absolutely correct. And if you refuse to pay this mandatory "tip" then don't be surprised when this happens:

Couple busted for Refusing to Pay Tip

[Ansalem]

Originally Posted by Slick_rick

Absolutely correct. And if you refuse to pay this mandatory "tip" then don't be surprised when this happens:

Couple busted for Refusing to Pay Tip

That's really not surprising. They were in a party of 6, and almost every restaurant has required gratuity for parties around the size and larger. If it says the restaurant charges gratuity in certain cases, or all the time on the menu, it's not optional, it's part of the bill, however bad the service may have been.

Also, this kind of required service fee is what exists in most places that don't have the custom of tipping. So this isn't really a good example to show why tips are a bad custom.

[Slick_rick]

Originally Posted by Ansalem

That's really not surprising. They were in a party of 6, and almost every restaurant has required gratuity for parties around the size and larger. If it says the restaurant charges gratuity in certain cases, or all the time on the menu, it's not optional, it's part of the bill, however bad the service may have been.

Also, this kind of required service fee is what exists in most places that don't have the custom of tipping. So this isn't really a good example to show why tips are a bad custom.

I don't know why you'd assume I was trying to make that point in the first place. I certainly wasn't. In fact it goes to show the opposite that an establishment without a voluntary tipping policy the customer has like control over what he can pay/not pay towards any perceived bad service.

[Ansalem]

Originally Posted by Slick_rick

I don't know why you'd assume I was trying to make that point in the first place. I certainly wasn't. In fact it goes to show the opposite that an establishment without a voluntary tipping policy the customer has like control over what he can pay/not pay towards any perceived bad service.

You didn't really imply either way, so I was just speaking generally.

[dasrune]

i generally tip 15-20% when i go to a sit down restaurant because i have friends working part time jobs in the food service industry. ive heard many first hand stories about disrespectful and demanding customers that leave bad tips and the last thing i want is to be THAT guy, but if the service is bad i wont hesitate to leave less.

[Gin]

Originally Posted by dasrune

i generally tip 15-20% when i go to a sit down restaurant because i have friends working part time jobs in the food service industry. ive heard many first hand stories about disrespectful and demanding customers that leave bad tips and the last thing i want is to be THAT guy, but if the service is bad i wont hesitate to leave less.

I'm glad you brought that up, sometimes customers are just rude and disrespectful. Of course that is going to effect the service. Eating in restaurants requires a sort of teamwork between customers and employees. I know people who always complain about service because they expect to be treated like royalty when they go to a restaurant. If they don't tip well then the restaurant staff will be less likely to put up with their bs the next time they come to the restaurant.
Of course, if you are not being rude, and the service is bad, small tips are perfectly acceptable. Just remember that waiters usually split tips so you may be taking money away from good waiters.

[Nosauz]

Tipping is not wrong, but tips need to be earned. If you ignore me while I dine, why should I give you money for not doing your job? Tipping is to promote service, to promote repeat business yet I guess i'm being "cheap" if I don't tip a douche who won't give me the time of day even though I'm paying 10 dollars for a burger. Get real. The most I ever tip ins 15% and even then I don't mind if the delivery guy is late, but I just find it frustrating that I have to remind you what your damn job is, you should be out there making the customer feel comfortble, if you can't do that then don't be a waiter/waitress. If you monetize everything and expect certain treatment then I shouldn't be wrong in expecting service for my tip. Do i get tipped for debugging? Hell no but I still do it, so don't pull this, servers deserve it because a tip is not a part of the bill, its a thank you for good service and pleasant experience.

ps. I've worked plenty of service jobs, the better you do them the more you make and the more repeat business you get. At the time I had a lawn care company for my neighbor and even though i was slower than the mexican crews my quality beat theres and I was contracted more often then them, its a fact, good service= good pay, thats the point of capitalism. If you don't understand go move to 1946 east germany please.

[Tsuyoshi]

Originally Posted by Vexx

Actually... at some restaurants they DO include an automatic 15% gratuity in the bill.

You usually see these at "advantaged destinations" (big coastal resorts, too-many star eateries, or big cities). You'll also see that included if you bring a large group of people that requires special table arrangements. Often they are "hotel"/"resort"/"casino" restaurants. This is also common at large name restaurants that have moved past the "voluntary" communal tip pooling system (where the employer pools the tips, distributes them out equally, and then reports the "income" to the IRS).

Those places are usually one-time-only or not-in-the-first-place for me and I tell them why, often in writing. (one sign of getting older I suppose - I document and publicize my reaction to annoying behavior by businesses).

For establishments with a large name and reputation, that's more than understandable. I was referring mainly to general restaurants or bars. If all kinds of restaurants started doing that, when consumers have a larger base for choosing where they want to eat out, the restaurant that charges tips is gonna lose out to places that don't. Places like the ones you mentioned don't exactly have a large amount of competition to deal with.