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Link #3321 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
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We went trough this not that long ago in the spoiler thread. The most logical conclusion given the evidence is that some rifles where loaded with larger caliber rounds while other ones where loaded with smaller ones. We cant really say that there was a handgun involved unless we actually saw evidence of one.
But using a rifle this size, even with the smaller winchesters like the trapper series, it kinda makes it difficult for it to slip trough a well with a cover like that. A pistol would make more sense, either that or someone was still alive at the time and forced it trough. |
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Link #3322 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
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Also, I don't recall the specifics, but I remember the measurements of the well being ample enough to let the winchester fall in easily. I sort of imagine her holding it in such a way that it's already positioned to fall through the grate, and not onto it, as soon as she lets go. There would, of course, be the possibility of failure with that, but hey, surrendered to fate. |
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Link #3323 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
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Its very small, about 7 inches wide between each bar. Even if its a set of bars running parallel to each other without another one crossing in between them its small. Using a string + weight system here just wouldn't guarantee it going down the well. If there where no strings though she could just slump herself over the well, stretch her arms to the trigger and shoot herself while the rifle already cleared the grate. She would be face down on the well with her arms inside of it though. Pretty easy to guess what could have happen if Battler found her like this.
e- I also dont trust the whole possibility of failure thing with Yasu. The witch that lent her powers was Labda, Witch of Certainty. Certainty doesn't come by chance, you make it happen. |
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Link #3324 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
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I think Large Caliber rounds can't do that kinda of damage. If the shooter was close enough to the target then there's suppose to be a large gaping hole in the victims head. But what Battler saw was a Head half destroyed. Also the Winchester rifle can't carry a large caliber round to begin with. its appropriate to think that someone else smashed half of their heads |
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Link #3325 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
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Second, A magnum round has a lot of force behind it. I can see it ripping a head apart really easy. The issue was always about getting it to smash only half of the head and leave the other half relatively fine. Third, if you want to go hyper realistic with this. A head exit wound, even from a pistol is pretty nasty. Far nastier than the pretty little gunshot wounds that these characters suffered. So we can, of course leave it at author incompetence in the matter. e- Exit wound ballistics are pretty funky depending on the rifle, i dont know how much spin these rifles put on the round but I've known cases of hitting someone in the chest and having the round come out of their leg basically taken it out completely. Last edited by Cao Ni Ma; 2011-11-23 at 12:06. |
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Link #3326 | |
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Join Date: Sep 2010
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Well were are not sure whether the destroyed part of their head was the the exit wound. anyways, Something weird was going on in that Ep and i think it had something to do with the gun. If what you said is true then how come the other victims only had a single hole in their head oppose to the half destroyed head of the other victims. |
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Link #3327 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
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In hindsight (since I just zipped to the scene to verify where Shannon was - "right next to the well"), I never actually questioned the positioning of Nanjo and Krauss's corpses (literally, why the hell were they back there?). But that's a question for another thread, I guess. |
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Link #3328 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Meta-Meta-Meta-Space
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The only problem I have with the Winchesters is the hint at the beginning of EP4 where someone came in and shot 6 people in rapid succession. The Winchesters are described as being 4+1, for a total of 5... so, I think this was a hint that some other gun with at least 6 bullets can be used.
Mind you, this could've been a fantasy scene where 'Kinzo' all got them to pretend that they were executed by a gun in rapid succession... hm. |
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Link #3329 | |
Senior Member
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Didn't Kinzô summon 3 Chiesters during that scene? While ONE culprit wouldn't be able to handle at least 2 guns, a culprit handing out weapons would provide enough firepower and only 2 of each gun would have to be fired at all. Kinzô said that he would start the roulette when he summoned the Chiesters and that it was completely up to fate who would be killed. A "violent storm in the dining hall" could just as well describe a shoot-out between the different parties. Each Chiester also killed different people. Natsuhi, Hideyoshi and Rudolph were killed by Chiester 45 and 410s beam (they even held 2 bows in the anime version, but we don't know which arrow hit whom). Then 00 pinned Krauss to the wall, 410 cornered Nanjô (together with Kumasawa and Gôda). Genji and Eva weren't killed by direct shots but by the beams still whirling around the room (accidental shooting?) and finally Rosa was killed by 00 when she attacked Kinzô (who funnily wasn't doing anything at all). |
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Link #3330 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Meta-Meta-Meta-Space
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Ah well, that's too bad. I was thinking there had to be some clue of a hand gun somewhere. I actually remember vaguely thinking someone must have had one in EP2.
It's tough to imagine ... Spoiler for Not sure if this really belongs in spoilers...:
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Link #3331 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
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You don't have to 'fling' the rifle into the grate , you hold it over the grate, and it'll just fall in because of gravity. If she were even a bit removed from the well, it'd be harder to imagine, but Shannon and Nanjo were right next to it.
Also, the culprit probably DID have the rifle on them for the entirety of Alliance. It's the only story that doesn't really involve "survivors huddling together", where it'd need to be hidden. |
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Link #3332 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
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anyways, I don't think that Yasu was the murderer in Ep4 though. Its hard to believe that she killed all of them one by one. Well i think its possible that she and Dr. Nanjo commited suicide in front of that well when Kryie and the others escaped. The real murderer killed them and tried to mimic the epitapt murder. ![]() |
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Link #3333 | ||
The True Culprit
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Link #3334 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Meta-Meta-Meta-Space
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The other thing is the idea about flinging the Winchester behind the dresser. I was thinking that instead Ryukishi may have wanted to use the scene from And Then There Were None in it's entirety, which includes a revolver and not a sawed-off rifle. But... Quote:
Spoiler for you know, I'm not sure if I should put these things in spoilers or not... but...:
If there is a revolver in play, I don't like how there aren't really any clues to it's existence over just simply using a Winchester, though. |
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Link #3335 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
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Kylon, regarding George's death in EP3 : when the survivors found Hideyoshi, Kyrie, and Rudolf dead in the mansion, they noted that the two guns their party brought, had been lost. In other words, the survivors then only had two guns and the other two are open to shoot whomever.
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Link #3336 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
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@Auratwilight: I'l just give up on that fucked up logic of mine since it doesn't make
sense. Anyways, I read the ???? tea party of Ep5 again and i kinda have a question. It's when Battler reached the truth. I noticed that he said something like he won't lose the truth again. This means he knows the truth before right? and now he was protecting that Illusion of the witch. If he wanted to expose the truth before then Why did he had a sudden change of heart and now he wants to protect the Illusion of the witch? |
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Link #3337 |
The True Culprit
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I don't think he knew the truth beforehand; he's saying he won't become ignorant again. He protects the illusion of the witch because it seems that the truth changed his perspective on things. My personal theory is that he learned that Beatrice isn't the culprit, but is taking the blame for someone else, and he wants to respect her wishes.
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Link #3338 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
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anyway, I agree with what you said. But in a different way. I think Battler learned the "real truth" but he just didn't want to reveal it. Instead he just took over Beatrice place to hide the truth forever. |
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