2010-06-21, 14:23 | Link #7903 | |||||||||
I disagree with you all.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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As for what Joojoobees said, it doesn't argue for your case either. He said:
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Wait, I tell a lie. It actually depends on the sector of activity - in some, small businesses do want more government. More on that later. So, you see, if we want to fight big businesses, we're pretty much stuck with the government. (That's not to say I wouldn't favor shrinking my own government, which I think is bloated. But I wouldn't do it as an anti-Big Business measure. And I'd be careful of where and how I trim the fat.) Quote:
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Not that I wouldn't like some kind of "pound of flesh" rule for bail-outs. Maybe metaphorically, by confiscating the estate of whoever's responsible for the company when it needs a bailout (and of whoever they gave money to for safekeeping). Or maybe with literal pounds of flesh. How much flesh do you think it would come out to, adjusted for inflation since the Trojan war? |
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2010-06-21, 16:11 | Link #7904 | |
NYAAAAHAAANNNNN~
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 35
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Maybe "majority shareholder is the government after bailout" is what you are looking for : I am not sure if such a law against insolvency is instituted in the US. P.S Are you some kind of economist or financial consultant? You seem to have a really throughout understanding of macroeconomics.
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2010-06-21, 18:16 | Link #7905 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: USA
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US military supply contracts fund corruption, the Taliban, according to report
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Direct link to report (PDF). Quote:
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2010-06-21, 21:17 | Link #7906 |
廉頗
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Massachusetts
Age: 34
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Anh_Minh, you're justified in asking for specific details from me but I don't have the energy to harvest them at this time. Since my posts have kind of been monopolizing the past few pages, a massive essay-style post about the issue probably wouldn't look too good either, lol. I don't agree with everything you say, but I can't really elaborate any more without making a 15 page post. Thanks for debating a bit with me though, you bring up good/valid points that I need to consider to strengthen my position (which I still believe, while not the best thing in the world, is better than what we have now). Also, for some points, there might not even be any 'facts' to back them up. I am proposing a radical overhaul here, which usually has some philosophical aspects to it. Oh yeah, one last point and then I'm done - deregulation is not the same as small government. Deregulation means letting businesses do what they want. Small government is more about reducing wasteful spending and government agencies so we can better focus our resources on regulating the free market so it operates how it is supposed to.
EDIT: I remember talking to someone about China wanting to move away from the dollar peg a few pages back. Check this out. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB2000...181814956.html Last edited by ChainLegacy; 2010-06-21 at 22:16. |
2010-06-22, 00:55 | Link #7907 | |||
I disagree with you all.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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And no, it wouldn't be enough: it, at best, only punishes stockholders. It's the board members I'm after - they're the ones really making the decisions. Of course, it doesn't have to be an either/or proposition. Quote:
Defined that way, everyone's for "small government", except for a few radical anarchists and rabid economic liberals here and there. If asked "do you want to stop wasting money?" or "do you want the free market to work like it's supposed to?", who wouldn't answer "yes"? The differences only appear when you attempt to define "waste" and "how the free market's supposed to work". And how to achieve it all. Last edited by Anh_Minh; 2010-06-22 at 02:05. |
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2010-06-22, 02:31 | Link #7908 | |
Moving in circles
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Singapore
Age: 49
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I've but browsed the past several posts about macroeconomic policy. Some interesting points were raised and a good number of questions asked.
Being more an observer than an analyst of economic trends, I can't claim to have any insight to offer in terms of hard data. I'm interested more in the historical aspects of the issue than the actual economics itself. That's why it's with a certain amusement that I read the accusations against "robber barons" and the claims about the "disappearance of the middle class". History, you see, has turned a full circle — a certain German had written about similar trends some 160 years ago: Quote:
Kind of makes you wonder if there's really any fundamental solution to all the various problems we're so agitated over. Perhaps some ancients weren't all that wrong after all to think of history as an unending series of revolutions rather than as a linear, progressive narrative. |
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2010-06-22, 07:55 | Link #7909 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
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However the problems discussed seem to be primarily an issue in the US of the last two decades, which suggests more of a local political problem rather then a fundamental flaw in the theories of market economics. |
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2010-06-22, 08:18 | Link #7910 | ||||
NYAAAAHAAANNNNN~
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 35
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What I actually mean was that whatever rules implemented, it must be to the favour of the government and the people, not to the corporations, however they may deter investors from coming in if not properly thought out. The legislation is underused by the government and overused by the corporations. Things won't change until the corporations gain some business ethics and the government start doing their work. Quote:
Wall Street never changes, the pockets change, the suckers change, the stocks change, but Wall Street never changes, because human nature never changes. Bottom line? There is always a sucker in the market who blames others instead of himself when he/she loses money. And it is hard not to be one in a globalised world with so many "psychological ailments" for eccentric people who think out of the box : conformity seems to be the only other way to look "normal" without getting ostracised. Either that or you have lots of dosh or recognition - like Feynman, Einstein, Soros or Buffett (actually, you can see that each of them have some bit of eccentricity to them). As I discussed with a friend last night who was harping about how the government's new CPF policy (my local version of the Social Security or pension scheme) is using our money to pay for the overall plan's investment losses through limitation of withdrawal after 62, most people complain about everything else in the market instead of getting themselves the very basic financial planning skills, which is, unfortunately, not taught in school. Another misconception held by a group of commie-wannabes is that they are "proletarians" being abused by "capitalists", drawing reference from Karl Marx's Das Kapital of an equal economy and society. As quoted by Marx himself, it is "strictly science", and it is apparent that such a thing can be seen as overly idealistic, and already proven when the excesses of GDR's societal echelon are revealed before Germany's unification. Commodity fetishism created by capitalism gives both money and products monetary value and allowed them to be traded for what they are worth at that time with accords to supply and demand, which opportunists like market makers used market psychology to create windfalls for themselves. So who is exactly to blame? The opportunists or the "proletarians"? I don't exactly know, but I do know that in life, to be successful, you draw two lines and stand in the middle. Where you draw them is entirely up to you, since the world is made up of good, bad and ugly people. Reality is an illusion, albeit a persistent one. Unfortunately, people still apply the principle of locality in a globalised world of ideas and products flowing and changing across borders. Computer technology doesn't change anything but the rate of change : after all, the logic behind computing is based on the "logic of human actions". Herd psychology has always been dominant in the animal kingdom, no less it applies to human beings as well. History rewrites itself based on the mistakes human beings come together to make again and again. On the other hand, it seems that not only financial markets are plagued by greed that tramples on the dreams of the idealists : NSFW Sankaku : Top Mangaka: “Publishers Are The Ones Raping Us!” Quote:
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2010-06-22, 08:44 | Link #7911 | |
廉頗
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Massachusetts
Age: 34
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2010-06-22, 09:39 | Link #7912 | |
Apathy moe~
Scanlator
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Atlanta, USA / Seoul, Korea
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Fear of Mt. Baekdu (Mt. Changbai) Eruption Grows
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2010-06-22, 11:00 | Link #7913 | |
On a sabbatical
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Wellington, NZ
Age: 43
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2010-06-22, 11:41 | Link #7915 |
On a sabbatical
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Wellington, NZ
Age: 43
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They'd probably flee to China, not towards Seoul. And they'll just build it with death-row prisoners. Or their dead bodies. It's called scare tactics. Paul McCarthy used it to his advantage, and so can Kim.
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2010-06-22, 11:53 | Link #7916 | |
NYAAAAHAAANNNNN~
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 35
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Each and every human being has this survival instinct built inside them, so when the volcano comes crashing down and the wall of bodies is built, their thinking would be to scale that wall or die trying, if they go back, they would die anyway, so there is nowhere else to go but up.
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2010-06-22, 17:36 | Link #7918 | |
Not Enough Sleep
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: R'lyeh
Age: 48
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Who the hell is in charge over there. I would also say if Hillary was in charge McChrystal would have Vince Foster Moment before he had a chance to say anything.
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2010-06-22, 19:14 | Link #7919 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: USA
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The only thing that surprises me here is that they didn't watch what they said in front of a reporter. |
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2010-06-22, 20:05 | Link #7920 | |
NYAAAAHAAANNNNN~
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 35
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To me, it is another case of politician vs soldier. Bound to happen because minds don't click.
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current affairs, discussion, international |
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